King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie current events 3: November 2006 -

[iannis]

Originally Posted by iannis

TM King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie are attending the funeral of Archbishop Christodoulos at the Athens Cathedral at the moment.
I'm surprised to see them seated on the official chairs around the coffin, next to religious leaders (at the last ones as a matter of fact) and opposite the President of the Republic, PM and party leaders. It looks like in Greece we've started doing some steps further on showing some respect to the King, who used to be the legitimate head of state of the country.

Or it may just be the people inside church who do it.

After the memorial service finished the Bishop of Salonica Anthimos gave a speach dedicated to the late Archbishop. Starting it he addressed in order the President of the Republic, the Ecumenical Patriarch, Heads of other Orthodox Churches who were present, the Prime Minister, the ex King (addresing him as "former King of the Hellenes" [τέως βασιλεύ των Ελλήνων]) and then the ex Presidents of the Republic who were present, and then the leaders of the opposition.

IMO this was more than appropriate, since Constantine has been the legitimate head of the state whatsoever and addressing him after the current Prime Minister was the accurate position. However a vast majority of Greek bloggers have blasted an enormous attack of rage and hatred, being the less ironic, towards Bishop Anthimos, which above all, in my opinion, is not fair to King Constantine.

[BeatrixFan]

Majestys always come before Presidents though. International etiquette always puts former Kings before Presidents if they're at the same events.

[ellinotati]

Anne-Marie is the patron of a charity whose purpose is to raise money for research into ovarian cancer.The name of the charity is,The Eve Appeal.Information on:www.eveappeal.or.uk

Apologies,the correct address is The Eve Appeal - Gynaecology Cancer Research Fund

[Philippe Egalite']

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Majestys always come before Presidents though. International etiquette always puts former Kings before Presidents if they're at the same events.

Not quite.

First of all, the official uniform international protocol treats all sitting Heads of State the same, whether they are monarchs or presidents and the order may be alphabetical or otherwise structured. However, heads of defunct monarchies are generally treated as private citizens.

In countries that are Republics (like the USA), State Protocol does not distinguish between reigning monarchs and sitting presidents, it treats them all as Heads of State. During State events, Republics do not invite former monarchs, first and foremost, because they do not represent legally anyone and second, out of respect to the sovereign countries of origin of these personages. Now, if, say, a former monarch were a close friend of a deceased president who is about to receive a State Funeral, then this former monarch will be high on the list of personal guests of the family of the deceased but not of the hosting country. That means that he/she will be sitting/standing among the family members and friends of the deceased but not among the Heads of State and foreign dignitaries and he/she will not receive honors as a foreign dignitary. To give you a practical exampe: If, say, former king Constantine had attended the State Funeral of President Ford, State Protocol would have treated him as every other private man, American or foreign, attending strictly as a guest of the Ford family.

However, within monarchies, like Great Britain, the observed etiquette depends on the characterization of the event - State, Royal, Private etc. For example, the funeral of Winston Churchill was a State Funeral. In such cases, the Foreign Office gets involved and determines the order of precedence. In state events, sitting monarchs and presidents are treated as equals, as Heads of State. A similar protocol was followed during the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth, a state event. In contrast, in Royal Funerals such as those of Diana and the Queen Mother, and in Royal Weddings such as that of Charles and Diana, it is the Palace's choice to determine precedence - usually royals (whether reigning or former) precede presidents and prime-ministers of foreign countries, should they attend (usually they are not invited). When, Mesdames Hillary Clinton and Laura Bush attended the funerals of Diana and the Queen Mother, respectively, and Mme Nancy Reagan attended the wedding of Prince Charles, they sat way behind, simply because they were attending as private persons, as friends of the Royal Family. If, say, that wedding and these funerals were state events and Mesdames Reagan, Clinton and Bush had attended in their official capacities as First Ladies representing the President and the People of the USA, then they would have sat in the first row of the space allocated for foreign dignitaries, along with sitting monarchs and ahead of former monarchs.

[Philippe Egalite']

Originally Posted by iannis

After the memorial service finished the Bishop of Salonica Anthimos gave a speach dedicated to the late Archbishop. Starting it he addressed in order the President of the Republic, the Ecumenical Patriarch, Heads of other Orthodox Churches who were present, the Prime Minister, the ex King (addresing him as "former King of the Hellenes" [τέως βασιλεύ των Ελλήνων]) and then the ex Presidents of the Republic who were present, and then the leaders of the opposition.

IMO this was more than appropriate, since Constantine has been the legitimate head of the state whatsoever and addressing him after the current Prime Minister was the accurate position. However a vast majority of Greek bloggers have blasted an enormous attack of rage and hatred, being the less ironic, towards Bishop Anthimos, which above all, in my opinion, is not fair to King Constantine.

Your, my or anyone's opinion on such matters does not count/matter. The funeral of the Archbishop, who had himself drawn the details, was a State affair and received honors for a sitting President. If the late Archbishop had opted for a private funeral, then Metropolitan Anthimos and other friends/relatives of the deceased could have acted as they pleased, from the ceremonial standpoint.
As a state function, however, the event had to comply with State Protocol, and the order of precedence was drawn in accordance to the Constitution. According to the Hellenic Constitution, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th citizens of Hellas are hierarchically, the President, the Prime Minister, the President of Parliament and the Leader of the Main Opposition, respectively. What the Metropolitan of Salonica did, was a bravado act and a violation of the Constitution, indicative of the Church's determination to indulge constantly in matters political and, worse, to violate frequently the tenets of the Constitution.

People are free to like/dislike, respect/disrespect former heads of state, to be royalists/republicans in spirit, but they may not violate the Constitution. Insofar as the Hellenic Constitution is concerned, former king Constantine is a Danish private man, not a Hellene due to the fact that he refused to be at par with the citizens of the Republic by not adopting a surname, thus defying the "new" Polity. Had he accepted, as practised internationally, even the hellenized transliteration of his official surname, that is, from de Grecia to the meaningless Ντε Γκρέτσια or Δε Γρέτσια or Δεγρέτσιας, instead of the translation to the meaningful της Ελλάδας [= of Greece], he would now be a Greek citizen and, theoretically, there would be no obstacle to his receiving honors of former head of state, in chronological precedence.

Metropolitan Anthimos violated the Constitution. The Church of Greece continues to be a reactionary element of Greek society, a constant obstacle to, and decelerator of, progress. The reaction among Athenian newspapers was immense. It is now felt that the time has come for the separation of State and Church. I am not sure how many of the readers of TRF are aware that Greece is, in a way, a theocratic state, that is, it has a formal religion, Orthodox Christianity (even though the Constitution treats all religions and dogmata as equal) and the Clergy is salaried under the Civil Service, while the Church is immensely wealthy.

BTW, to those interested among you, former king Constantine did not follow the procession to the Cemetery of Athens (located dowtown, some 2 miles or less from the Athens Cathedral). According to all news agencies, immediately after the church ceremony, he returned to the Grande Bretagne Hotel and waved to the masses from the first-floor balcony, when the procession walked past the hotel. This was deemed, State Protocol and social etiquette-wise, inappropriate and was criticized by the media.

[Marie-Louise]

That was perhaps not political correct. But it's political correct, that the "former King" hasn't a greek Passport?

[iannis]

Originally Posted by Philippe Egalite'

Your, my or anyone's opinion on such matters does not count/matter.

Honey, it's MY post, so MY opinion does count/ matter!
Fora are fields where it is a common practice for people to express their opinions you know

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by Philippe Egalite'

First of all, the official uniform international protocol...

Philippe,

I just wanted to set straight a couple of points in your post:

-- Each U.S. president determines the precedence for both Americans and foreign guests at official events, and the order does vary from time to time. The U.S. does not follow any "official international" protocol. Here's a list of the current (January 2008) precedence that the White House uses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_order_of_precedence

-- The United States generally ranks the precedence of sitting foreign leaders and ambassadors (and their delegations) based on when they took office. In some cases, it will rank official delegations based on when a country first established diplomatic ties with the United States (which makes France and the Netherlands happy and annoys Britain and Canada).

-- Foreign leaders, past or present, do not attend U.S. "state funerals," unless for a sitting president, such as Kennedy's and Roosevelt's were. These events, which take place in the Capitol Rotunda, involve current and past U.S. officials, family, and very close friends only.

-- The events recently that have looked like state funerals in the National Cathedral (for Reagan and Ford) are actually official, private memorial services, and, as such, the family of the deceased can seat anyone anywhere they chose and use whatever protocol they like. The families work with the Military District of Washington to carry out their plans and get advice on protocol. Here's a link to some of the details regarding Reagan's funeral: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/10/opinion/diplomatic/main622294.shtml.

-- If Constantine were attending a U.S. state event as part of an official Greek delegation, he would take whatever rank and precedence the Greek embassy said he should have. The United States does not invite individuals to represent their countries at state events; it invites countries to send representatives.

-- If Constantine were attending an official U.S. state event and he wasn't part of an official delegation, he would be accorded the same precedence any other former head of state who is not part of an official delegation. Because the United States ranks heads of state ahead of heads of government (even if they're no longer in office), he would rank ahead of, say, Tony Blair, who was a head of government. But, he would rank behind former King Michael of Romania, since Michael took office before Constantine did.

-- Titles don't affect precedence, unless they are being used in an active, official capacity. As a courtesy, if Constantine and Pavlos came to the White House, everyone would call them "Your Majesty" and "Your Royal Highness," if that's what they requested, but their only status would be as a former head of state and his son.

-- All of this would go out the window if the United States had a political or diplomatic reason to honor or disrepect Constantine at any given moment.

-- When Nancy Reagan attended Charles and Diana's wedding, which WAS a state event, she attended as the personal representative of the President and head of the U.S. delegation, and she sat in the sixth row, among all other heads of government. Here's a report from the Washington Post describing the status: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/diana/background/wedding1.htm.

-- Diana's funeral was a diplomatic problem for the United States. The British stressed that it was NOT a state event, so at first they invited only Hillary Clinton to attend as a "personal friend" of Diana's. But the American public was demanding that the U.S. officially honor Diana, so the Clinton administration renegotiated with the Brits and made Hillary's trip "official" with her as head of a delegation, that included the ambassador. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/diana/stories/firstlady0904.htm She sat near Bernadette Chirac and Suzanne Mubarak, who also represented their husbands.

-- The Queen Mother's funeral WAS a state event, and Laura Bush attended in an official capacity as head of the U.S. delegation. Here's the announcement from the White House confirming it: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/04/20020404-12.html.

Hope this helps clear a few points up,
kal

[Philippe Egalite']

[quote=kalnel;728849]

Thank you for agreeing with me on all matters but two.

The funeral of HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother was a Royal Ceremonial Funeral and not a State Funeral - and I refer you to both Wikipedia and the Official British Royal Family Website. And I quote from Wikipedia:

Many of the features of a state funeral are shared by other types of funeral—a Royal Ceremonial funeral (for example, that of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother) often has a lying in state and Westminster Abbey service. The real distinction between a state funeral and a ceremonial funeral is that a state funeral requires a motion or vote in Parliament.

The Wedding of Charles and Diana was also a Royal event not a State event - it couldn't be anyway since he was the Heir and not the Sovereign and I am not sure whether there is such thing as State Wedding.

I am afraid that you confuse a state occasion from a State Ceremony.

Originally Posted by kalnel

The events recently that have looked like state funerals in the National Cathedral (for Reagan and Ford) are actually official, private memorial services, and, as such, the family of the deceased can seat anyone anywhere they chose and use whatever protocol they like.

.

A quick correction. A State Funeral is offered to all sitting presidents, ex-presidents and presidents-elect. An Official Funeral is offered to vice-presidents, the chief justice and others etc etc (see www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/p1_1.pdf). Btw, the funeral of president Reagan was attended by many foreign dignitaries.

[vasilofron]

HI,
TWO NEW VIDEOS WERE UPLOADED ON THE OFFICIAL WEB SITE OF THE GREEK ROYAL FAMILY.

1). CONSTANTINE. A KING'S STORY
2). QUEST FOR ROYALTY

FOLLOW THIS LINK:
http://www.greekroyalfamily.gr/index...how=interviews

[BELTRANEJA]

KinG Constantine was the guest speaker at the Oxford Rotary Club
The Greek Royal Family - News & Media

IT IS OF 1 APRIL

[Philippe Egalite']

Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA

KinG Constantine was the guest speaker at the Oxford Rotary Club
The Greek Royal Family - News & Media

IT IS OF 1 APRIL

I read the speech but I did not quite follow the relationship between King Constantine and the current economic crisis which is due to a multitude of factors including the oil crisis, the subprime loans, the enormous American debt and the unsurmountable deficit. Can you?

[BELTRANEJA]

TWO NEWS!!

IT IS 18 APRIL 2008
tHE kING cONSTANTINE AND QUEEN ANN-MARIA celebrated a memorial to King Pavlo and Federica in Tatoi.

Ç ÅëëçíéêÞ ÂáóéëéêÞ ÏéêïãÝíåéá - ÊÝíôñï Ôýðïõ


The King Konstantine, inaugurated the installations of Naval Group in Mesologgiou
As Honorary Chairman of International Sailing Federation and as Golden Olympic champion in the same sport, the king Konstantinos wished ` the historical city of Mesologgiuo constituted inspiration for the new and amounting athletes"
it is four news "23 april 2008"

Messolonghi News

Originally Posted by Philippe Egalite'

I read the speech but I did not quite follow the relationship between King Constantine and the current economic crisis which is due to a multitude of factors including the oil crisis, the subprime loans, the enormous American debt and the unsurmountable deficit. Can you?

I think that it is responding to a previous colloquium. The document is the answer to a series of questions from the colloquium . The document is a opinion of one of the participants (King Constatine)

[Salonika]

Does anyone know where the former King Constantine and Queen Anna Maria celebrated Greek Easter?

[vasilofron]

Hello
The King and Queen had Easter at Porto Heli and returned to London yesterday.

[BELTRANEJA]

The King Constantine and the Queen Ann Marie will be in the ceremony of graduated of prince Fillipos in Georgetown. they will be the saturday but in the calendar of university has acts for tomorrow, friday. The King has been in China with international Olympic Committee

Georgetown College 209th Commencement Exercises

[BELTRANEJA]

it says that kING Constantino and QUEEN Ann Maria went to a celebration of old students of the EUELPIDUM school.
It was a meeting of old students, they were the graduated in 1958
Constatino was one of the students graduated in 1958
The news is of day 25 of June.
It says that Constatino and Ann Maria arrived at the celebration to the 21:30.
the news says that the Kings of Greece and Queen Ann Marie were of vacations in Porto Heli. They interrupted their vacations to go to the celebration.

El blog de theroyalfamilyofgreek

[BELTRANEJA]

New news! !!!
It said that Constantine, Ana Maria and Teodora, they attended to representation of theatre in the theatre of Epidauros.
It speaks about Teodora.It says that she has studied interpretation at Boston University.
They are holidays in Porto Heli

El blog de theroyalfamilyofgreek

The image is not good. The photo Ana Maria is very similar to her sister Queen Margaret.
Porto Heli and theatre of Epidauros are near.
Teodora had skin red from sun