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  #101  
Old 05-05-2010, 06:58 PM
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As to them having been in love and he having wanted her I think it would have assisted the monarchy in many ways because Aliki was Greek and not foreign.Queen Anne Marie has been brilliant in her calling but she is not Greek is she?
I really doubt that their relationship (if one ever occured) was more than a fling. Let's not forget that Aliki was after all 5 years at least older that Constantine and he met her in his very early 20s. Aliki always wanted to be self sufficient and provide for herself and she even said once I think :" if someone ever told me that he was willing to offer me his love and the world I would aswer.Yes, for the love. But for the world , thanks but no thanks. I'll win it by myself" She moreover enjoyed being in the stage in more than one ways and she would be willing to stop that for anything. I don't think she ever considered marrying him in any way . Constantine marrying a Greek would have indeed changed many things but that's a different story I think

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And Aliki dear heart died as far as I am concerned of a broken heart because she did not marry her true love the King.
Aliki died of cancer I think and in more than one ways the relationship that defined her the most was that with her first husband Papamichail.
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Frederika was looking for a teutonic Bride of royal ancestry.
I read a translation of a recent Billet Bladet and there was a mention about it. It said how in Sofia's wedding all those German princesses who were invited were being "paraded"by their parents and they were looking their best in elaborate dresses and tiaras in order to impress Constantine and Frederika because it was known that she was an " old school" royal when it came to marriage and nevertheless the teenage and simple Anne Marie won him over the rest
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  #102  
Old 05-05-2010, 09:24 PM
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snowflower,
You are overlooking that Anne Marie simple or not was not "Greek" and that the Greeks were fed up with the other Europeans one after another taking the throne and not one monarch able to be progressive enough to marry an actual girl from the identical soil he ruled over. "Greek". The relationship with Aliki was a reality and not a fling as Aliki had a mother that looked over her very action. I think her mother[aliki's] eventually disapproved because she knew the how the palace worked with the almost contemptuous favouritism to the Danish court[as if no Greek gal was good enough] and that her daughter would have been hurt even more. The romance had promise and you forget that Aliki had roots in a patrician family; quasi nobility. But anything anybody says to defend dear Aliki goes by the wayside.Yes i know it was pancreatic cancer that she died from ; but under all that was a broken heart. And no I do not believe Papamichael was pivotal in her life as it is well known that he abused her physically after their marriage ran into stormy waters. There have always been rumours that she remained on good terms with the King in exile and when in London met with him for lunch along with the Queen.That says a lot about the King and Queen and waht wonderfully gracious people they are.
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  #103  
Old 05-05-2010, 10:08 PM
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You are right that Anne Marie was not viewed as "greek" enough and it would have been a lot better if Constantine married a Greek woman ( even in exile - his children could claim more easily a Greek nationality because no one could question a matrilineal Greek descent). But I highly doubt that Aliki had such a promising relationship with Constantine or that she could live as a Queen was supposed to live those days. Yes she was descended from her mother through a notable family (Koumoundourou) , but she didn't present much advantage for a royal bride. I mean , she was neither a rich woman nor a person of advantaged formal education and she didn't have the "virginal" profile ( mainly because she was an actress) that would be a sine qua non for Constantine's bride. Also we must not forget that she was his senior - he was born in 1940 and she was most often reported to be born in 1935 I think. That kind of things mattered those days, even for those involved in the relationship . Most important of all , I doubt that Aliki herself ever viewed him in a serious way - when they met he was the extremely young well groomed and born in the privilege Crown Prince and she a self made woman in her 25s who had face war, poverty and all kinds of struggle from an early age. It doesn't strike me as if they could form a substancial relationship. I don't think that Aliki had anything to gain from marrying Constantine other than money( and from what I gather about her , she would prefer to make her own money than marry into money) - she was a very popular figure, " the national star" of Greece, so why should she consider it? Instead she would even a bigger part of her privacy, she would be forced to act and behave and a very specific way and she would most likely face mockery from the rest of Europe's royalty. That's only my personal opinion of course.
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  #104  
Old 05-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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The truth is that she was very hard-working,she instisted a lot when she wanted something and of course she was ambitious,so all these together combined with her talent would help to succeed and make her own money.But many people strongly believe that she wanted to marry Constantine and this was the reason she bought her appartment at Stisihorou Street which is near palace in order to see him as much as possible.I was very young when Aliki died so i don't know much,only what i've read so far but it makes sence to me.I personally believe that she shouldn't have been involved with Constantine because his blood is as blue as it gets and he should marry a royal as he did.
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  #105  
Old 05-28-2010, 01:41 PM
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Constantine could never have married Aliki because no prince or princess of royal blood could marry a Greek citizen. They had an affaire and it has been widely rumoured that the then Crown Prince bought the Stisihorou apartment for her, because of its proximity to the palace.
The Queen Anne Marie has been loved by most of the Greeks regardless of the fact that she was not a Greek when she married the King.
Aliki (God rest her soul) was an actress and a very ambitious one at that. Her whole life centered around her career and I am sure she knew very well that she would never become Queen in real life.
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  #106  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaya;1077634I
think it would have assisted the monarchy in many ways because Aliki was Greek and not foreign.Queen Anne Marie has been brilliant in her calling but she is not Greek is she??
It was UNCONCEIVABLE at this time for a future King to marry Aliki!! Future Monarchs in Greece were not allowed by the Constitution to marry a Greek! The only time it happened it was for King Alexandros and Aspasia Manou, BUT the marriage was declared only morganatic, and do not forget that Aspasia Manou was coming from a very important Greek family!! having originals to Byzance and Fanar. Aliki was a simple low commoner, and in the top of that a light actress!! I think Konstantine NEVER thought about marry her, never! If he wanted we would be obliged to abdicate!

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And Aliki dear heart died as far as I am concerned of a broken heart because she did not marry her true love the King.
Aliki was not the kind of person to have a broken heart, for this kind of events. A broken ambition (to be a Queen) YES, but a broken heart, definitely not.
And Aliki's real love was Dimitris Papamichail.

Aliki was strong, hard worker, and proffessional, not sentimental at all.
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  #107  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Constantine could never have married Aliki because no prince or princess of royal blood could marry a Greek citizen. They had an affaire and it has been widely rumoured that the then Crown Prince bought the Stisihorou apartment for her, because of its proximity to the palace.
The Queen Anne Marie has been loved by most of the Greeks regardless of the fact that she was not a Greek when she married the King.
Aliki (God rest her soul) was an actress and a very ambitious one at that. Her whole life centered around her career and I am sure she knew very well that she would never become Queen in real life.
Agree to ALL you said.
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  #108  
Old 06-07-2010, 10:34 AM
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^me too.i fully agree with you and Odette.she was hard working,ough and sensitive only with her child.but i'll always wonder,does anyone know about this famous Stisihorou apartment if she bought it herself or if it was Constantine who bought it for her?
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  #109  
Old 06-07-2010, 10:43 AM
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I think she bought it herself.She was successful at the time. It was her home until the end of her life. When she was married in 1965, she stayed there with her husband and raised her child. Her son sold it after her death.
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  #110  
Old 06-07-2010, 10:52 AM
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Thanks for the reply.She was indeed succesful but i was wondering if she could afford it.It is one of the most aristocratic districts in Athens if not Europe.
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  #111  
Old 06-11-2010, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kastalia View Post
Thanks for the reply.She was indeed succesful but i was wondering if she could afford it.It is one of the most aristocratic districts in Athens if not Europe.

It still is and although she was very ambitious and busy enough to turn herself into the "National Star of Greece" remember what the tickets cost those days. Mortgages were unheard of and her fortunes did not justify the purchase. Perhaps it was a personal loan of sorts.
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  #112  
Old 10-29-2016, 01:46 AM
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Just as a hypothetical question - what would have happened if Constantine had married a local greek woman (not Aliki but say a greek simulacrum of Sonja Haraldsen) instead of Anne-Marie? Would this have helped ground C in greek politics more firmly or would this have made things worse as it might have made him look more comprimised politically?
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  #113  
Old 10-29-2016, 02:04 AM
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I suppose that would have depended upon what political allegiances, if any, her family possessed. (It would have been a bit akward if a long forgotten second cousin bobbed up from nowhere who was a known ardent Leftist for example.)

Knowing the era in which Constantine married, I suppose it would have been unlikely that the bride would have gone to university, involving herself in uni groups and clubs of the time etc. However, if this young woman had been interested in the politics of her country she could have been a more useful sounding board than a foreigner would.

It's a double-edged sword though, isn't it, in that most people who are interested in politics and how the system works veer to either one side of the spectrum or the other? Rarely are they neutral, and Constantine would, as a constitutional monarch, have had to keep strictly neutral in word and deed. My own opinion is that it could well have made things worse.
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  #114  
Old 10-29-2016, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Just as a hypothetical question - what would have happened if Constantine had married a local greek woman (not Aliki but say a greek simulacrum of Sonja Haraldsen) instead of Anne-Marie? Would this have helped ground C in greek politics more firmly or would this have made things worse as it might have made him look more comprimised politically?
We may assume that the Greek lady married to Constantine would come from the highest class and these were closely circled and sided with the royal family.

For the average greek it would have been one and the same: a bunch of über-privileged freeloaders governing them. I doubt the fact that a Queen born from the families Vardinogiannis, Costopoulos, Onassis, Stasinopoulos, Niarchos, Latsis or Angelopoulos would have prevented the coup d'état against the King.

At the other hand, Prince Pavlos maybe better could have married one of these Greek families instead of an American. He is already a "foreigner" for the Greeks and his marriage did not help to make him or his children more Greek.
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  #115  
Old 10-29-2016, 04:06 AM
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Thanks Curryong and Duc et Pair - I was asking because the question came up on the forum a while ago and there was never a clear debate on it. It's an interesting 'what if' that I feel is worth exploring as some forum users thought it would have improved C's standing with the greeks at large.

However given the fact that Greece had virtually no middle class at that time, was and is still very socially stratified, barring a miracle its a given that the would be lady in question would have come from one of these families, and given the ambiguous relationship many greeks have with them this could have either have acted as a bridge between Greece's elites and the RF (which in fact were often strained as many of greeces wealthy and political grandees found them too disapproving of their behaviour and of the RF's habit of marrying foreigners) Boosting the dynasty's claims to having 'gone native' as is the case for Norway or it could have left them even further tainted.

I can't use C's cousin Michael and his wife Marina Karella as examples as they have been very discreet about their actions and about greek politics so they are not an analogue. However Marina's family are not one of the 'old' families but were recently wealthy as is the family of CPss Katherine of Serbia, something which makes them less politically comprimised. I only mentioned Queen Sonja as an example as her family were well off but were not a 'upper class' family by Norwegian standards - haute bourgeois basically was the background I was thinking of.

Its also interesting as it helps look at some of the assumptions of what to do for a modern monarchy and why some things can work in one place (Norway) and may not work in another (Greece).

I do think you're correct about Pavlos D et P - marrying the narcissistic money grubber was a very bad idea.

You must forgive me - it's Saturday night, I've been binge watching Blackadder again and I've got nothing else to do - It's intrigue on the brain.
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  #116  
Old 10-29-2016, 10:53 AM
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the autobiography of King Constantine I imagine will be translated soon. he speaks about rumors that created the Greek press about him.

Constantino speaks of the Greek tabloids and rumors that they created. This part of his autobiography, I liked a lot me.
Constantine was very shy and little daring with women. I have a friend who knew constantine in person, at this time, he was related to sports and Greek Olympic Committee and he always said that the characteristic of Constantine is that he was very polite, and very shy, he always says that the Constantine that defined the press was not the real constantine, the Greek press had created a character that really did not corresponded to Constantine real.

When I read the autobiography of King Constantine, I liked that he spoke about this rumors of greek tabloids about Alice and others..

Constantine says that he was never boyfriend and he had not a relationship with the Alice, everything started because at an event in Athens in 1960 , he greeted to the actress, and the press began to create one gossip....

he account in his biography many anecdotes of this gossip,rumor... one affects a Minister, the Minister (not now remember the name) asked audience to King Pavlos, and King Pavlos thought he was coming to talk about the Cyprus problem, and he was very worried, when the minister came to Real palace, he asked to king Pavlos(King pavlos thought that it was by cyprus problems), " When will the wedding be held?" and King Pavlos said, "what?", the Minister said "constantine and Alice" he had read it in press, to King Pavlos gave a fit of laughter, and had to apologize and leave the office, because it was impolite, when it spent the giggles, he returned to the office and had to explain to minister that it were not true, that it was gossip of tabloid , it was what people wanted to hear .... King Pavlos said to Constantine that the minister was embarrassed, but disappointed.

it was normal that taboides created this rumors with all the famous woman with who he spoke , i remember Liz Taylor, she was received by the Prince of Greece, was born gossip of photo, but then gossip is lost in time and the taboides turned not talk about it. Constantine was amused by some rumors that were very entertaining story that was created by the press, was like a movie script, however, after the minister's visit I think that he stopped liking that created those stories.

It's funny, when the European press, such as the Swedish or Norwegian publishing that Prince Constantine could be the boyfriend of one of the sisters of Carl Gustaf , I think it was Desiree, constantino traveled a lot to Sweden, the Swedish press published even the hotel he went to many dances with her, and in Europe the press spoke about this, the Greek tabloids, avoided speaking of European princesses, and especially Swedish.

There is a thought of Constantine that he has the feeling of the Greek tabloids of the time created these rumors to try to create the impression that the prince was an idle man, who did not worked .... he laments, it is sad to read and hear Constantine to say that he did not had adolescence, he did not enjoyed of his teens because he did not have it. and when friends came over the weekend or going to parties, yet, he always had been granted a function, a duty, his friends had a free weekend, but he still had to go to military practice or a trip, or receive someone. This is quite sad when you read these affirmations of king, because it's like he's trying to tell you, that to be Prince is not lucky, it's like you're losing your life for others people than ever you will recognize your effort and sacrifice.


Prince Michael said in an article this very thing, that he never wanted to be the prince of Greece, his renounced wing sucesion made to him happy, because according Michael, he admired the Prince Constantine, his cousin had no private life, was always subject to one schedule, always from dawn until dusk they were led by an schedule, they were not free and adds Michael, the Greek press never recognized the King and Prince their work and effort , they only knew insulting, and represent them as privileged.... He admires King Constantine but he preferred to be free. Michael admires them because he says they were born in a sense of duty, which does not allow them to give it up. He admires to them, he doesn ´t like to be Prince.

Memories of King Constantine should be published in all countries with monarchy, so that people know how hard it is to dedicate your life to others, and how hard it is that the press wants to represent you as if you were an famous...

If King Constantine would be reborn, he would choose to be an actor and he would return to marry Ana Maria, because she is the woman of his life since he saw to her in a magazine and his father told him, "you're crazy ..." (he was ahead of his time,) he went to see her, but she ignored him, took time to convince to her ...

He says very nice things about Ana Maria, he will marry with his wife, which is the best of his life, and when he saw in that magazine her he thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world and he still thinks she is the most beautiful woman in the world.

After reading the autobiography of King, and see everything he says of his youth, and read interviews in which he claims, If he were born again he would return to marry with his wife Ana Maria.
and read in article of michael, he married with one woman greek(rich), he says that the best thing he did was give up the succession because he preferred his freedom to be prince of Greece.

I think it can be said that if the throne of Greece had been saved by a marriage with a Greek woman selected by the Greek tabloids, then the answer to all these people that think it, is in the King's autobiography and Michael of geece, and IS:

ENJOY YOUR Republic.

Forgive all errors of translation, today had no desire to be translating,.... I do not speak English well.
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  #117  
Old 10-29-2016, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Just as a hypothetical question - what would have happened if Constantine had married a local greek woman (not Aliki but say a greek simulacrum of Sonja Haraldsen) instead of Anne-Marie? Would this have helped ground C in greek politics more firmly or would this have made things worse as it might have made him look more comprimised politically?

Who was Aliki? The King Constantine had other girlfriends?
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  #118  
Old 10-29-2016, 03:04 PM
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She was an actress and one of the king's paramours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliki_Vougiouklaki
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  #119  
Old 10-29-2016, 03:12 PM
eya eya is online now
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never became known though had some flirting or something more

2 pictures from then

http://www.espressonews.gr/sites/def...4y1325y5_2.jpg
http://www.espressonews.gr/sites/def...es/aliki22.jpg
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  #120  
Old 10-29-2016, 08:36 PM
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King Constantine had no girlfriends, he had one Anna Maria, he spoke of it in his memories. One day, he was with his father speaking about women, and he said to his father that he was enamored of one woman, and he taught his father a magazine, on the cover was the Princess Anna Maria, his father King Paul said to Constantine that was not the way to have a girlfriend......but Constatine thought that it was so.

The tabloids tried to portray him as a playboy (he was very handsome) , but he was not one "playboy". In his autobiography King discusses this rumor, and says that initially it was a rumor created by the Greek tabloids, it was common, and this was not the first time, but he says that these rumors always ended with the time, however, this rumor no, and he tells anecdotes that occurred around it, for example the Minister and And very funny with journalists ..... but it was not true, she was not girlfriend.

This was a legend created by the Greek press, which ended the day that Constantino announced his engagement with Anna Maria, in January 1963. The Norwegian and Danish press were saying that Anna Maria was girlfriend of Constantino en 1962, but the Greek press followed with gossips. In 1963 it was confirmed Constantine was the boyfriend of Anna Maria l, only then Greek tabloids abandoned this stories and legends(he was not playboy) .

In 1974 Greece became in an unfair referendum against the monarchy .... Many people who vote in Greece against the monarchy, was old monarchists, why did they voted against the monarchy ?, because they voted in favor of Karamanlis (the old conservative monarchical) and against the King, who he did not supported to the Colonels and his father to Karamanlis..... A punishment to the king from conservatives.


Karamanlis was not God, Karamanlis was a great politician when the head of state was the king, after, he was nothing.

Those monarchists who one day decided to vote against the monarchy, then looked for ways to justify their vote against the monarchy, their excuse was, Anna Maria, was Danish, foreign, had no Greek blood, and this was the problem, however the reality is that Ana Maria was not a problem, and it was a woman loved by his people, all girls born at this time were called Ana Maria, what do you thought that it was a common name in Greece ?.



Queen Anna Maria was/is a gem for the Real Greek house and for the Greeks , in Europe we were envied for having a queen so beautiful, and that is the reality, if they wanted monarchy that had voted in favor of it, do not need to seek any excuse, that's reality,
My friend Katerina, her grandmother when reading these comments in the press or hear people say that, always she says, "the Virgin was not Greek " hahahah, it always really liked me,

I adore Queen Ana Maria, for me she is a woman worthy of being admired, she is a good mother, a good wife, she is a lovely woman, for me she is my queen and always will be. In the autobiography, King says very nice things about her and how much he loves her,
it is a privileged woman, her husband loves to her, her children love her ...... She will always be the queen of Greece, Queen of the Hellenes.

I do not think that if a Prince marry with a Greek woman the monarchy would be restored or if the King would had married a Greek woman to the throne was guaranteed, because that's a ridiculous excuse created by those "who said be monarchists and they voted against the King. "
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