The Hashemites

[tipper]

some pix of JRF ancestors, and of Muna and kids in London, in Sept '03, 2 pix of Q dina and KH's wed in '55, -PS- 2 pix of Nayef, Noor Hamzah's grandfather, and of KA the I and K Talal.

[maryshawn]

I love the photos! A lot of energy and time had to have gone into posting them....thank you so very much for doing all of this work so we can all enjoy these lovely images!!!!

Mary Shawn

[sommone]

Yes, thanks tipper for posting these pictures....Some of the people I don't quite recognize.

[tipper]

Originally Posted by sommone

Yes, thanks tipper for posting these pictures....Some of the people I don't quite recognize.

if u tell me which pix, I mean in which u did not recognize some1 ? hope to be of any help-:) :) :p

[sommone]

Originally Posted by tipper

if u tell me which pix, I mean in which u did not recognize some1 ? hope to be of any help-:) :) :p

The first four pictures in the first post...The men...I don't recognize any of them.

[tipper]

Originally Posted by tipper

some pix of JRF ancestors, and of Muna and kids in London, in Sept '03, 2 pix of Q dina and KH's wed in '55, -PS- 2 pix of Nayef, Noor Hamzah's grandfather, and of KA the I and K Talal.

the first pic is of K Talal, the 2nd is of KA the I, the 3rd and 4th are of P Nayef, P Noor Hamzah's grandfather.

[Avalon]

This thread is to discuss the Hashemite dynasty, starting from HAshim ibn Abd al-Manaf, the founder of the dynasty, to King Talal I, father of King Hussein II and grandfather of the current King.

Here is the brief introduction to the Hashemite dynasty:

The Hashemites trace their ancestry from Hashim ibn Abd al-Manaf, the great-grandfather of Prophet Muhammad, from who the dynasty name comes. It is also believed the dynasty is descendant from Fatima, the Prophet’s daughter. The struggle between Hashemites and rival dynasty Umayyads eventually led to the religious split between Sunni and Shia.

After the collapse of the Ottoman power, Hussein bin Ali of the Hashemite dynasty rules and independent Hejaz. His rival, Ibn Saud, annexed Hejaz and named his own son, Faysal bin Abdelaziz al Saud as governor. The region was later incorporated into Saudi Arabia.

Of Hussein’s 5 sons, the eldest, Ali, briefly succeeded to the Throne of Hejaz, before it was annexed to the Saud Family. His second son, Abdullah later became King of Transjordan, and whose descendants established the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. Hussein’s third son, Faisal, was briefly King of Syria, before becoming King of Iraq. Hussein’s fourth son, Prince Zeid, became claimant to the Throne of Iraq, when his brother’s grandson was overthrown and murdered in 1958. Prince Hassan died at a young age.

The rule of Hashemite dynasty in Iraq ended after 1958 revolution, however the dynasty continues to successfully rule in Jordan.

[kaffir]

Isn't there a thread on this somewhere?

[Avalon]

We have Hashemite Dynasty thread in the Royal Geneology Forum, which is focused on the geneology of the family.
This thread is for general discussion of the Dynasty.

[Veram98]

Originally Posted by yamamah

King Hussein was very popular but he was king for 46 years. The only other two kings before him were reigning for 2 years before assassination and 1 year before being sent to a mental health institution so really I am not surprised about your statment of hussein being the most popular and abdullah doesn't match up to his father in many people's eyes. Rania definitely needs to spend much more time in Jordan doing things that actually makes a difference and to stop the top down attitude of knowing what is best. There are many educated people in Jordan but if you aren't a favourite then you don't get heard.

King Abdullah I may have been king for only 2 or 3 years, but since 1923 he was the Emir of (then) Transjordan.

[yamamah]

Originally Posted by Veram98

King Abdullah I may have been king for only 2 or 3 years, but since 1923 he was the Emir of (then) Transjordan.

Yes but let's be honest the royal house of Jordan is a British invention and the Hashemites aren't even Jordanian but from the Hejaz.

[Veram98]

Yes, (Trans-)Jordan was created by the British Empire. Almost all the borders in the Middle East were "created" by Britain (and France).
But nowadays the Arabs living there (in former Trans-Jordan) see themselves first as Jordanians than as Arabs (at least the East Bankers) and have more or less accepted being ruled by the Hashemites (from Mecca).

[yamamah]

But there are more West Bankers there now and things aren't as settled internally.

[Veram98]

There are (many) problems between East and West Bankers and they cannot be resolved before the Palestinian problem as a whole will find a just solution. But even for the Palestinians in Jordan (who still do not know if they will stay for ever there or return to the other side of the Jordan river one day) there is no credible alternative to the actual regime.

[yamamah]

Originally Posted by Veram98

There are (many) problems between East and West Bankers and they cannot be resolved before the Palestinian problem as a whole will find a just solution. But even for the Palestinians in Jordan (who still do not know if they will stay for ever there or return to the other side of the Jordan river one day) there is no credible alternative to the actual regime.

The aspirations of the people to govern themselves have never been fostered but let's do this via pm OK?

[Veram98]

Originally Posted by yamamah

The aspirations of the people to govern themselves have never been fostered but let's do this via pm OK?

That is unfortunately the standard not the exception in the Middle East.

Originally Posted by Elspeth

We've been trying over the past couple of years to add more substantive content; we do allow political discussions (and religious ones) as long as they have something to do with the royal topics, which is a relaxation of the earlier rules which involved a blanket prohibition)

[yamamah]

Jordan presents itself as progressive and Rania/Abdullah in countless interviews to the West present the Jordanian nation as people who are incapable of ruling themselves. Abdullah doesn't even hold an undergraduate degree so I don't think he is supremely qualified to make statements like that and there has not been much done to foster and encourage an open democratic system. Abdullah rules supreme and appoints ministers personally and dissolves parliament when he wants to so perhaps not as progressive as he likes to present to the West.

In addition, the Palestinian 'problem' was partially caused by King Hussein's ill advised foray into the 6 day war and so much land including Jerusalem was lost.

[Veram98]

Originally Posted by yamamah

Jordan presents itself as progressive and Rania/Abdullah in countless interviews to the West present the Jordanian nation as people who are incapable of ruling themselves. Abdullah doesn't even hold an undergraduate degree so I don't think he is supremely qualified to make statements like that and there has not been much done to foster and encourage an open democratic system. Abdullah rules supreme and appoints ministers personally and dissolves parliament when he wants to so perhaps not as progressive as he likes to present to the West.

IMO they are a bit more progessive than some other Arab rulers, but certainly not as progressive as they like to present themselves to the West.

Originally Posted by yamamah

In addition, the Palestinian 'problem' was partially caused by King Hussein's ill advised foray into the 6 day war and so much land including Jerusalem was lost.

I agree, this was his greatest political mistake. But he was a bit forced into it by Nasser and all that Arab (including Jordanian) masses seeing him (Nasser) as such a great Arab hero. KH said later on that with that general feeling among all Arab peoples then he would have risked a civil war by not taking part in that war.

[Amoula]

Originally Posted by Veram98

King Abdullah I may have been king for only 2 or 3 years, but since 1923 he was the Emir of (then) Transjordan.

Actually 1921 not 1923

[Veram98]

Yes, but only in May 1923 Transjordan was granted by the British a certain degree of formal independence with Abdullah as ruler in an official announcement.