The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:07 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 43
King Talal

He is the most under written about King of Jordan.

King Talal, can people plz tell me stuff about him, his views, his life, why he and King Abdullah the first didnt get along well, why him and his brother Nagef fought in a brief power struggle.....
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:51 PM
Humera's Avatar
Super Moderator
Picture of the Month Representative - Brunei, Malaysia & Dubai
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Canada
Posts: 6,679
Is the father of the late King Hussein?
I remember hearing he was schizophrenic.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-08-2004, 03:52 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
Is the father of the late King Hussein?
I remember hearing he was schizophrenic.
I've done quite a bit of research on King Talal and think he is one of the saddest and most underrated membersof the JRF. By all accounts ( mainly the British records but I have also spoken to Jordanians who knew or knew of him ) he was an intelligent, kindly man. He was responsible for two of the most important decisions in Jordan's poltical life. He was the moving force that gave Jordan a written constution ( an in imperfect document to be sure but better than none ) and behind compulsory education for boys and girls. He played a good game of chess, and rode very well. He enjoyed reading, music and poetry, and although much of his aggression when ill was targeted towards his wife, when well they enjoyed a good, normal relationship. King Abdullah did not like him as he thought he was too progressive ( ie the consititution and girls' education, I guess). He chose to marry Queen Zein rather than the woman his father had chosen of him, and did not care that she didn't wear Hijab or traditional dress. King Talal wanted to go to university in England and his father did not approve thinking he would get even more fancy ideas. So although with the British High Commissioner's help and advice he went to England and studied to the necessary standards and got into Cambridge, his father ordered him away after a semester and insisted he go to Sandhurst. (David Niven the actor was a friend of his and writes well about him in his autobiography). Prince Naif is decribed in the British records as lightweight, a superficial, badly educated man . King Abdullah prefered him as he gave in to his father and did not present any challenges. King Abdullah thought Prince Talal and Princess Zein's influence to be so bad that he took their infant son Hussein from them and brought him up his own. Talal and Zein lost two children. The first because there was no money for them to buy medicine for their infant daughter, nor heat the house, and she died at six months. The second because King Abdullah did not approve of women giving birth in hospital and the baby had some complications that a home delivery could not deal with and died. It is no wonder that King Talal ended his days in a sanatorium. Obviously he was a despressive but this sort of treatment at the hands of his father could not have helped. The British records make sad but interesting reading. :(
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-08-2004, 06:44 AM
wymanda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,426
Are there any photos of King Talal?
__________________
Everything I write here is my opinion and I mean no offence by it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-08-2004, 08:15 AM
sommone's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley
I've done quite a bit of research on King Talal and think he is one of the saddest and most underrated membersof the JRF. By all accounts ( mainly the British records but I have also spoken to Jordanians who knew or knew of him ) he was an intelligent, kindly man. He was responsible for two of the most important decisions in Jordan's poltical life. He was the moving force that gave Jordan a written constution ( an in imperfect document to be sure but better than none ) and behind compulsory education for boys and girls. He played a good game of chess, and rode very well. He enjoyed reading, music and poetry, and although much of his aggression when ill was targeted towards his wife, when well they enjoyed a good, normal relationship. King Abdullah did not like him as he thought he was too progressive ( ie the consititution and girls' education, I guess). He chose to marry Queen Zein rather than the woman his father had chosen of him, and did not care that she didn't wear Hijab or traditional dress. King Talal wanted to go to university in England and his father did not approve thinking he would get even more fancy ideas. So although with the British High Commissioner's help and advice he went to England and studied to the necessary standards and got into Cambridge, his father ordered him away after a semester and insisted he go to Sandhurst. (David Niven the actor was a friend of his and writes well about him in his autobiography). Prince Naif is decribed in the British records as lightweight, a superficial, badly educated man . King Abdullah prefered him as he gave in to his father and did not present any challenges. King Abdullah thought Prince Talal and Princess Zein's influence to be so bad that he took their infant son Hussein from them and brought him up his own. Talal and Zein lost two children. The first because there was no money for them to buy medicine for their infant daughter, nor heat the house, and she died at six months. The second because King Abdullah did not approve of women giving birth in hospital and the baby had some complications that a home delivery could not deal with and died. It is no wonder that King Talal ended his days in a sanatorium. Obviously he was a despressive but this sort of treatment at the hands of his father could not have helped. The British records make sad but interesting reading. :(
Thanks for sharing this shelley...I had often wondered why there wasn't much written on King Talal other then the schizophrenia. I'm sorry, but your account of King Abdullah makes him sound like a heartless man. I can't believe that they didn't have any money for medicine...or heat? Wow...I thought as a prince, he would have had some money...Did it talk about KH relationship with his father? Yes, I guess one can understand why the poor man abdicated. I wonder though...was he sick before getting married to his wife, or after he married her? That is really sad though.
__________________
I'm back!!! Did anyone miss me?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-08-2004, 09:46 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
Thanks for sharing this shelley...I had often wondered why there wasn't much written on King Talal other then the schizophrenia. I'm sorry, but your account of King Abdullah makes him sound like a heartless man. I can't believe that they didn't have any money for medicine...or heat? Wow...I thought as a prince, he would have had some money...Did it talk about KH relationship with his father? Yes, I guess one can understand why the poor man abdicated. I wonder though...was he sick before getting married to his wife, or after he married her? That is really sad though.
I have never had much of an opinion of King Abdullah after I read all this. ( King Hussein touches on the financial straits his parents were in in his book 'Uneasy lies the head' when he says how they had to sell his little bicycle once because they were short of cash. ) He does sound a harsh man. And very old fashioned. I have always wondered if his influence on King Hussein was less than desirable. Inevitably being brought up by such a retrogressive person must have influenced him somewhat, as I believe he admired his grandfather very much. When I lived in Jordan someone told me that King Hussein was in many ways like his grandfather and Prince Hassan was more like the father, in temprament and interests. Certainly Prince Hassan's interest in civil society and education and culture sounds more like the father than the grandfather. Whilst on the subject, someone made a point related to the recent twist to the succession saga in Jordan, which is worth sharing. They said that they think that King Hussein certainly wanted the line to return to his own direct family but also that he was not happy at the prospect that his brother would take the country in a liberal direction that he was not comfortable with. If you look back at the old King's speeches, there is indeed very little about democatic practices and civil society, whereas Prince Hassan barely opened his mouth, both as crown prince and now, except to talk about such matters. This person also suggested that King Hussein was nervous that a reign of a King Hassan could upstage his reign as he knew better than any one else how much of the development and insfratructure of modern Jordan economically, politically and socially owed to his brother, although it was always done in his name and under his intructions. A slant I had not really considered seriously but now think has some validity. And maybe behing the remarks about two courts and two spheres of influence that we hear about regarding the position of a crown prince. After all, King Hussein elevated Intelligence Chiefs and Army Commanders to Prime Minister, and did not encourage political life all that much. And why did he do nothing about the so called honour crimes ? Surely he had the stature to impose his will on the tribes and traditional elements ? Or did he really not care about these things so much. I am now wondering.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-08-2004, 05:18 PM
sommone's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 886
I know I have said this but, that is just really sad. I mean to sell KH's bike...can you see the irony of it all. King Talal must have been humiliated on top of everything else. Poor, poor man. I would like to read KH's book "Uneasy lies the Head." Tragic really.
__________________
I'm back!!! Did anyone miss me?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-08-2004, 06:56 PM
Humera's Avatar
Super Moderator
Picture of the Month Representative - Brunei, Malaysia & Dubai
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Canada
Posts: 6,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley
I have never had much of an opinion of King Abdullah after I read all this. ( King Hussein touches on the financial straits his parents were in in his book 'Uneasy lies the head' when he says how they had to sell his little bicycle once because they were short of cash. ) He does sound a harsh man. And very old fashioned. I have always wondered if his influence on King Hussein was less than desirable. Inevitably being brought up by such a retrogressive person must have influenced him somewhat, as I believe he admired his grandfather very much. When I lived in Jordan someone told me that King Hussein was in many ways like his grandfather and Prince Hassan was more like the father, in temprament and interests. Certainly Prince Hassan's interest in civil society and education and culture sounds more like the father than the grandfather. Whilst on the subject, someone made a point related to the recent twist to the succession saga in Jordan, which is worth sharing. They said that they think that King Hussein certainly wanted the line to return to his own direct family but also that he was not happy at the prospect that his brother would take the country in a liberal direction that he was not comfortable with. If you look back at the old King's speeches, there is indeed very little about democatic practices and civil society, whereas Prince Hassan barely opened his mouth, both as crown prince and now, except to talk about such matters. This person also suggested that King Hussein was nervous that a reign of a King Hassan could upstage his reign as he knew better than any one else how much of the development and insfratructure of modern Jordan economically, politically and socially owed to his brother, although it was always done in his name and under his intructions. A slant I had not really considered seriously but now think has some validity. And maybe behing the remarks about two courts and two spheres of influence that we hear about regarding the position of a crown prince. After all, King Hussein elevated Intelligence Chiefs and Army Commanders to Prime Minister, and did not encourage political life all that much. And why did he do nothing about the so called honour crimes ? Surely he had the stature to impose his will on the tribes and traditional elements ? Or did he really not care about these things so much. I am now wondering.
wouldn't it make sense for King Abdullah to be old fashioned? We're talking about a long time ago here. Most royalty was old fashioned at the time.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-08-2004, 07:03 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
wouldn't it make sense for King Abdullah to be old fashioned? We're talking about a long time ago here. Most royalty was old fashioned at the time.
Yes of course, but sadly, for whatever reason it meant that King Hussein's primary influences were those of a generation before his father's, and we are talking about a period when a huge change took place in the mindset and lifestyle of the Arab nations. In some ways King Hussein must have found himself torn between a traditional grandfather and progressive father. Confusing to say the least.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-08-2004, 07:28 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 43
What about the so called power struggle between Talal and Naif?
Didnt Abdullah prefer Naif to the throne ahead of Talal?
Fav wives...fav sons.....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-08-2004, 07:53 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 245
King Talal seems such a tragic figure. I think his upbringing may have contributed to his illness later in life. He seemed like a free spirit but his father kept him like a caged bird. KH would have been a different man had KT had more influence on his life. This is truly a sad story: a life that could have been wonderful curtailed by an obviously jealous father.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-08-2004, 11:46 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 43
yep if only
the power struggles of the throne, jealous fathers caging sons
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-09-2004, 04:15 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollin_keef
What about the so called power struggle between Talal and Naif?
Didnt Abdullah prefer Naif to the throne ahead of Talal?
Fav wives...fav sons.....
Yes, in fact he at one point tried to replace Talal as heir apparant with Naif, but the British resident intervened and did not let this happen. There has just recently been an interesting article about King Talal's illness in a magazine called History Today but I do not have it here with me just now. It was I think in last month's issue. It makes sad reading as well. I wonder if King Talal was ever given that chance of benefiting from modern treatment. He did not die until the 1970's.

.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-09-2004, 04:13 PM
sommone's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 886
I'm just floored by the thought of KT and QZ being poor, and the fact that their babies died unnecessarily because of all of the BS...So PN is Princess Noor's grandfather or great-grandfather?

Oh, and shelley, if you can find that article that you were speaking about...would you post it so we can read it, please? I can't speak for anyone else, but I would love to read it.
__________________
I'm back!!! Did anyone miss me?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-09-2004, 05:20 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,154
from enWikipedia.org

King Talal bin Abdullah (February 26, 1909 - July 7, 1972) was King of Jordan from July 20, 1951 until forced to abdicate due to health reasons (he suffered from schizophrenia) on August 11, 1952. Talal had ascended the Jordanian throne after the assassination in Jerusalem of his father Abdullah, of which his eldest son, Hussein, was also a near victim. Hussein formally succeeded his father in 1952 (but did not reign immediately, as he was not yet 18 years old).
Born in Mecca in 1909, in 1934 he married Zein al Sharaf Talal. He attended the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst from which he graduated in 1939.

During his short reign he was responsible for the formation of a liberalised constitution for the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which made the government collectively, and the ministers individually, responsible before the Jordanian Parliament. The constitution was ratified on January 1, 1952. King Talal is also judged as having done much to smooth the previously strained relations between Jordan and the neighbouring Arab states of Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kingtalal.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	7.8 KB
ID:	63205  
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-09-2004, 05:26 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,154
some pictures I found
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	12.9 KB
ID:	63206   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	25.7 KB
ID:	63207  
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-09-2004, 05:41 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,154
oops. Turns out that's not King Talal but his father King Abdullah I in the first picture. I'm hoping that the second photo (the man with the baby) is King Talal.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-09-2004, 06:24 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyonnaise
some pictures I found
Yes it is. It is exactly the same picture that was in the magazine article and the baby is Prince Hassan.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-09-2004, 06:26 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
I'm just floored by the thought of KT and QZ being poor, and the fact that their babies died unnecessarily because of all of the BS...So PN is Princess Noor's grandfather or great-grandfather?
Grandfather.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-14-2004, 02:57 AM
Safaa Batin's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Irbid, Jordan
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley
I've done quite a bit of research on King Talal and think he is one of the saddest and most underrated membersof the JRF. By all accounts ( mainly the British records but I have also spoken to Jordanians who knew or knew of him ) he was an intelligent, kindly man. He was responsible for two of the most important decisions in Jordan's poltical life. He was the moving force that gave Jordan a written constution ( an in imperfect document to be sure but better than none ) and behind compulsory education for boys and girls. He played a good game of chess, and rode very well. He enjoyed reading, music and poetry, and although much of his aggression when ill was targeted towards his wife, when well they enjoyed a good, normal relationship. King Abdullah did not like him as he thought he was too progressive ( ie the consititution and girls' education, I guess). He chose to marry Queen Zein rather than the woman his father had chosen of him, and did not care that she didn't wear Hijab or traditional dress. King Talal wanted to go to university in England and his father did not approve thinking he would get even more fancy ideas. So although with the British High Commissioner's help and advice he went to England and studied to the necessary standards and got into Cambridge, his father ordered him away after a semester and insisted he go to Sandhurst. (David Niven the actor was a friend of his and writes well about him in his autobiography). Prince Naif is decribed in the British records as lightweight, a superficial, badly educated man . King Abdullah prefered him as he gave in to his father and did not present any challenges. King Abdullah thought Prince Talal and Princess Zein's influence to be so bad that he took their infant son Hussein from them and brought him up his own. Talal and Zein lost two children. The first because there was no money for them to buy medicine for their infant daughter, nor heat the house, and she died at six months. The second because King Abdullah did not approve of women giving birth in hospital and the baby had some complications that a home delivery could not deal with and died. It is no wonder that King Talal ended his days in a sanatorium. Obviously he was a despressive but this sort of treatment at the hands of his father could not have helped. The British records make sad but interesting reading. :(
King Talal was a great king, and yes he had a sad fate, but I have some comments on your post Shelley, may be things that you don't know:
I wonder of what is written about him in the british records, because the british were not having good relations with him, and he was not there preference, and hat I know that they were against him, may be due to his progressive attitudes, and constitution which is (very) advanced one, etc. but may be I should not wonder of the british behavior to have a good record about him , as they may like his ideas but did not want him to apply it .. I will give an example in my next post.
The other thing what you said about king Abdullah I did not like him because of girl education, as there was girl education in the time of KA, and at the time of my grandmother who was a child when KA I was th king in the 20's girls were going to schools, and the old girl's school in Irbid is called "Musbah" which is the name of KA-I wife.
Third, assuming that his illness is due to his father treatment, is not likely because his father died , and he did great thing after that and became free of his father, the only pressure on him then became only from Britain this could be the reason.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Queen Noor: Current Events 1 Josefine Current Events Archive 113 01-18-2005 06:38 PM
Sarah Ferguson, Duchess Of York: News and Photos Jacqueline Current Events Archive 170 09-23-2004 03:30 PM
Charles And Camilla news and pics 1: Oct 2002 - Oct 2003 Lorraine Current Events Archive 134 10-31-2003 09:31 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta elena infanta sofia jordan kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympics ottoman picture of the month pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]