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  #21  
Old 12-14-2004, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley
I have never had much of an opinion of King Abdullah after I read all this. ( King Hussein touches on the financial straits his parents were in in his book 'Uneasy lies the head' when he says how they had to sell his little bicycle once because they were short of cash. ) He does sound a harsh man. And very old fashioned. I have always wondered if his influence on King Hussein was less than desirable. Inevitably being brought up by such a retrogressive person must have influenced him somewhat, as I believe he admired his grandfather very much. When I lived in Jordan someone told me that King Hussein was in many ways like his grandfather and Prince Hassan was more like the father, in temprament and interests. Certainly Prince Hassan's interest in civil society and education and culture sounds more like the father than the grandfather. Whilst on the subject, someone made a point related to the recent twist to the succession saga in Jordan, which is worth sharing. They said that they think that King Hussein certainly wanted the line to return to his own direct family but also that he was not happy at the prospect that his brother would take the country in a liberal direction that he was not comfortable with. If you look back at the old King's speeches, there is indeed very little about democatic practices and civil society, whereas Prince Hassan barely opened his mouth, both as crown prince and now, except to talk about such matters. This person also suggested that King Hussein was nervous that a reign of a King Hassan could upstage his reign as he knew better than any one else how much of the development and insfratructure of modern Jordan economically, politically and socially owed to his brother, although it was always done in his name and under his intructions. A slant I had not really considered seriously but now think has some validity. And maybe behing the remarks about two courts and two spheres of influence that we hear about regarding the position of a crown prince. After all, King Hussein elevated Intelligence Chiefs and Army Commanders to Prime Minister, and did not encourage political life all that much. And why did he do nothing about the so called honour crimes ? Surely he had the stature to impose his will on the tribes and traditional elements ? Or did he really not care about these things so much. I am now wondering.
no wonder my preferences too are K Talal and p hassan and I think you too shelley, as they say, great mind think alike :p .

but about king hussein being traditional like his grandfather and p hassan being libral like his father, I have somthing to say:

the first prime minister when king Hussain became a king 'Fawzi Almullqi' was liberal and democratical man, and was vey much supported by king hussain, the opposition which was leaded by a former prime minister ( was a prime minister at the time of KA-I ) 'Tawfiq abu alhuda' was conservative. The british supporteded the opposition (the conservatives), and they (british)said it literally that 'almulqi' is better but we prefer 'abu alhuda' , (and this the example i talked about in my brevious post) , the oppositions worked hard to form majority and suceeded in forming a new goverment supported by the conservatives, another arab country and the british,(to people who don't know , Jordan was colonized by britain).
at that time prince hassan was just 6 years old, but actually i am shocked that p hassan is liberal, that makes me shelley ask you if you know about P Hassan opinion in 'Alkabariti ' goverement, who was liberal.
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  #22  
Old 12-14-2004, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safaa Batin
no wonder my preferences too are K Talal and p hassan and I think you too shelley, as they say, great mind think alike :p .

but about king hussein being traditional like his grandfather and p hassan being libral like his father, I have somthing to say:

the first prime minister when king Hussain became a king 'Fawzi Almullqi' was liberal and democratical man, and was vey much supported by king hussain, the opposition which was leaded by a former prime minister ( was a prime minister at the time of KA-I ) 'Tawfiq abu alhuda' was conservative. The british supporteded the opposition (the conservatives), and they (british)said it literally that 'almulqi' is better but we prefer 'abu alhuda' , (and this the example i talked about in my brevious post) , the oppositions worked hard to form majority and suceeded in forming a new goverment supported by the conservatives, another arab country and the british,(to people who don't know , Jordan was colonized by britain).
at that time prince hassan was just 6 years old, but actually i am shocked that p hassan is liberal, that makes me shelley ask you if you know about P Hassan opinion in 'Alkabariti ' goverement, who was liberal.
This is very good toknow Safaa as I only can rely on the records etc that I can read in English. I did not know so much about the former Prime Ministers, especiallyfrom a Jordanian point of view,so I find it very interesting.

The reason I think Prince Hassan is liberal is because he is always talking about civil society, and the need for debate, and I have heard speeches and statements where he talks about involving people from the grass roots up. I know he and Kabariti clashed but I thought the main clash came over the rise in the bread prices, when I have been told by people who were in the cabinet at the time, that Prince Hassan did not favour going along entirely with the IMF demands to increase the price of bread. Prince Hassan wanted to hold meetings with the Parliamentary sub committee I suppose on finance, I am not sure, to see what could be done to lessen the blow to the ordinary Jordanian, when the Prime Minister just took the decision, without consulting with the committee which as we all know was unpopular and resulted in trouble in Karak, and elsewhere. I think he felt that although Mr. Kabariti talked a lot about liberal government he didn't really practice it very much. But as a Jordanian who actually lives there you will also have your own sources, and I am sure you are correct. I also believe that Prince Hassan had a very good relationship with the late Wasfi Tell who was probably one of the best Prime Ministers Jordan ever had, which says something about him. I think that much of the problem in the relationshion between Prince Hassan and Kabariti was because increasingly the King was giving Prince Hassan more and more responsibility, and dealing with the government through him, and naturally two is company, three is a crowd. (Which actually now makes more sense of what has been said in recent days about the role of the crown prince. ) I was also in Jordan when Prince Hassan called for the first conference which dealt solely with the subject of women, their employment and participation in the labour force, and which finally led to women being given the vote in I think it was 1973.

I know Prince Hassan was very young when his father left the country, and could not have been directly influenced. but I am talking about personal attitudes and inclinations. He is obviously more of an intellectual and thinker as it seems his father was. I think that the late King, although he did a lot for Jordan, could have done more in the areas such as 'honour' killings . He had a lot of prestige and could have used it to impose his will, as he did in other areas, such as peace with Israel. Prince Hassan founded the Family Protection Unit which took care of abused women ( and which has now been taken over by Queen Rania) and brought in foreign specialists to advise the police on how to deal with people who had been abused. He also mentioned the need to limit the size of families in some speeches I heard when I was in Jordan about 20 years ago now. All of this is quite liberal for an Arab politician or leader. And I believe that even today Prince Hassan does come up with some quite open ideas in the talk shows and debates he appears on in various Arab channels, and in the various meetings and conferences he holds, and in what he writes in newspapers. Unfortunately, I cannot follow these as my Arabic knowledge is very modest.
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  #23  
Old 12-14-2004, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safaa Batin
King Talal was a great king, and yes he had a sad fate, but I have some comments on your post Shelley, may be things that you don't know:

I wonder of what is written about him in the british records, because the british were not having good relations with him, and he was not there preference, and hat I know that they were against him, may be due to his progressive attitudes, and constitution which is (very) advanced one, etc. but may be I should not wonder of the british behavior to have a good record about him , as they may like his ideas but did not want him to apply it .. I will give an example in my next post.

The other thing what you said about king Abdullah I did not like him because of girl education, as there was girl education in the time of KA, and at the time of my grandmother who was a child when KA I was th king in the 20's girls were going to schools, and the old girl's school in Irbid is called "Musbah" which is the name of KA-I wife.

Third, assuming that his illness is due to his father treatment, is not likely because his father died , and he did great thing after that and became free of his father, the only pressure on him then became only from Britain this could be the reason.


What I meant about education in that yes, there were of course girls's schools in Jordan before King Talal's reign, but it was he who pushed through legislation that there a basic education was compulsory for both boys and girls.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2004, 06:11 PM
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From http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/


King Abdullah with his two sons in the 1930s. To his right, Crown Prince Talal; to his left, Prince Nayef.

King Abdullah, accompanied by Crown Prince Talal, congratulates soldiers on the occasion of Army Day.

King Talal at the opening ceremony of Parliament. To his right is the young King (then Prince) Hussein.

King Talal delivers a salute with his son, Prince Hussein.

King Talal with Lebanese dignitaries during a visit to Lebanon.

His Majesty King Talal bin Abdullah, circa 1951.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2004, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for posting these pictures of KT. I have never seen many of them.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2005, 01:28 AM
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Wink

have u ever noticed that none of KH's sons were named after his own father, Talal, does any1 know what really happened btw KH and his father ?
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2005, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipper
have u ever noticed that none of KH's sons were named after his own father, Talal, does any1 know what really happened btw KH and his father ?
Yes,this is weird.I read one of KH's books,"Uneasy Lies the Head",translated into arabic,he mentioned his father as an unwell man,a nice guy who used to gather them around and tell them stories.KH seemed more attached to his grandfather and mother.He said that King Abdullah the first was totally disapointed about P Talal,didn't get the son he wanted,KH was the son.You can read about how his grandfather supervised his education,he'd test his teachers to make sure he got a good,decent education.Once he asked KH questions about arabic proverbs,he didn't answer well so the arabic teacher was fired.He spent the whole day with him,from the dawn till midnight.No sign of his father in his life,even when he married Muna,QZ handled it all.When his father was dismissed,didn't say much about him,he explained more about how he'd feel being a teenage King.He always said,even in several interviews, that he owns everything to his mom.Don't know what happend between the two,when he wrote the book,his father was stil alive yet it appeared like he died,KH was about 26 when he wrote the book.I wonder how KHs' sons felt towards their grandfather-Abdullah,Faisla,Aisha and Zein.It's odd enough that there are no photos of them with PT while we can see photos of QZ along with them,or at least,I didn't come across one.Still wonder.....
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorja Fox
Yes,this is weird.I read one of KH's books,"Uneasy Lies the Head",translated into arabic,he mentioned his father as an unwell man,a nice guy who used to gather them around and tell them stories.KH seemed more attached to his grandfather and mother.He said that King Abdullah the first was totally disapointed about P Talal,didn't get the son he wanted,KH was the son.You can read about how his grandfather supervised his education,he'd test his teachers to make sure he got a good,decent education.Once he asked KH questions about arabic proverbs,he didn't answer well so the arabic teacher was fired.He spent the whole day with him,from the dawn till midnight.No sign of his father in his life,even when he married Muna,QZ handled it all.When his father was dismissed,didn't say much about him,he explained more about how he'd feel being a teenage King.He always said,even in several interviews, that he owns everything to his mom.Don't know what happend between the two,when he wrote the book,his father was stil alive yet it appeared like he died,KH was about 26 when he wrote the book.I wonder how KHs' sons felt towards their grandfather-Abdullah,Faisla,Aisha and Zein.It's odd enough that there are no photos of them with PT while we can see photos of QZ along with them,or at least,I didn't come across one.Still wonder.....
I know for a fact that King Talal was sent to a Swiss clinic where he lived til the day of his death, which was not so many years ago- it looks he had tried to strangle his own son, KH, don't know why, but he was ill, he had schizofrenia, I wonder why King Mohammed was disappointed with him, it was not his fault he was so ill.... I could never read anything else about K Talal, don't know if KH and Q Zein ever visited him in the Swiss Clinic, -don't think he ever met any of his grandkids- so, when KH married dina, K Talal was not already around, I think he was sent to the Clinic be4e KH's coronation.BTW, there is one pic of KH and his father when Hussein was a toddler.
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  #29  
Old 07-07-2005, 01:22 AM
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From Jordantimes Jordan marks death of King Talal

AMMAN (JT) — Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the death of King Talal Ben Abdullah, father of His Majesty the late King Hussein and Their Royal Highnesses Prince Mohammad, Prince Hassan and Princess Basma. Under his reign, the country prepared a new liberalised Constitution in 1952, which introduced a culture of Arab unity by declaring Jordan part of the Arab nation. The Constitution also established a new relationship between the government and the Parliament by obliging the former to be answerable to the latter and to be responsible for its actions before the legislature.

The Constitution also covered the implementation of the principles and objectives of the Great Arab Revolt, led by Sharif Hussein Ben Ali in the early 20th century against Ottoman rule.

During King Talal's rule, Jordan concluded important agreements including a pan-Arab collective security agreement.

King Talal, born in Mecca in 1909, studied at the British Military Academy, Sandhurst, and in 1929 became the first Jordanian officer to graduate from the institute.

In 1934, he married Zein Al Sharaf, the late Queen Mother, who died in 1994.

King Talal assumed the Throne shortly after the assassination of King Abdullah I on July 20, 1951.

Due to health reasons, he abdicated a year later on Aug. 11, 1952 in favour of his eldest son Prince Hussein.

King Talal died July 7, 1972.

Thursday, July 7, 2005
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2009, 12:13 PM
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King Talal with Queen Zein and King Hussein 1939
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3426/image3xw.jpg

King Talal ,King Hussein and Prince Hassan
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5628/werwr.jpg


King Talal and King Hussein
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2469/2111s.jpg

King Talal with Prince Hassan
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6452/185ht.jpg
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:52 PM
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http://up.v1va.com/files/9khpsae4rfj7gz12f745.gif
http://www.nl.gov.jo/images/king%5B3...ng7%5B3%5D.jpg
http://www.almhbash.com/upload/users...7-gwqgwumd.jpg
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  #32  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:24 AM
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I've found this photo:
King Talal & Arar (A poet)
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:44 AM
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July 7 , 2012 40th anniversary of King Talal's death
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:38 AM
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Can anyone tell me in which year Talal's son Muhsin was born? I'm aware he lived only for a very short time. I believe it was 1948 or 1949 but can't find out for certain.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipper View Post
I know for a fact that King Talal was sent to a Swiss clinic where he lived til the day of his death, which was not so many years ago- it looks he had tried to strangle his own son, KH, don't know why, but he was ill, he had schizofrenia, I wonder why King Mohammed was disappointed with him, it was not his fault he was so ill.... I could never read anything else about K Talal, don't know if KH and Q Zein ever visited him in the Swiss Clinic, -don't think he ever met any of his grandkids- so, when KH married dina, K Talal was not already around, I think he was sent to the Clinic be4e KH's coronation.BTW, there is one pic of KH and his father when Hussein was a toddler.
King Talaal was first sent to a Clinic in Cairo then to a Clinic in Istanbul and passed away there. King Hussein and Queen Zein did visit him at the clinic but they were very short visits, and no he didn't meet anyone of his grandchildren, Unfortunately he had a life full of sad events.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:14 AM
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Can no-one help me out with Muhsin's birth year?? I've tried every genealogy I know!
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:02 PM
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:25 AM
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Royal court marks king Talal's death anniversary:

Quote:
@RHCJO:Since His Majesty the Late King Talal ascended the throne in September 6, 1951 he aspired to reinforce the principles of the Arab Revolt #JO

@RHCJO: His Majesty the late King Talal formed a constitution that strengthens the foundations of community 1/2 #JO #Jordan

@RHCJO:.. based on political and economic freedom and that is responsible before the law 2/2 #JO #Jordan

@RHCJO:The Jordanian constitution was ratified on the 8th of January, 1952. 1/2 #Jordan #JO
..which at the time was one of the newest constitutions in the world, the most democratic and modern 2/2 #Jordan #JO

@RHCJO:Under the reign of the late King Talal, the constitution made the government accountable to the parliament #Jordan #JO

@RHCJO:The Parliament became entitled to a vote of confidence or no confidence in any government under the provisions of the Constitution #Jordan

@RHCJO:Under the reign of late King Talal, education became compulsory and free in #Jordan #JO

@RHCJO:His Majesty the late King Talal was the first Jordanian officer to ever graduate from the Military Academy #Sandhurst in #UK #Jordan #JO
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