The will of Lord John Grimaldi of Monaco (1454)

[Grace]

I'll tell you clearly why it annoys me that we go round and round again on this subject: if you just stated your wishes, or opinions on the future (like "I hope Albert will change the Constitution so that Alex can be his Heir", or "I hope Albert marries Nicole so that Alex can be legitimized") I would have absolutely No problem becauseI totally believe in freedom of thought and of speech. What bothers me is that you tend to "bend" the facts and the Constitutional theories to prove your point, so each time you post, people think they got the whole thing wrong, and other people feel the need to rectify what you stated. When you say that Monaco has to adopt and respect French legislation, or that Monaco is a member of EU, etc. you just change facts to back up your opinions.
For months we've been posting the same things again and again, and whatever the French public opinion thinks (assuming they had any power on these things, they seemed more interested in CPE anyway) nothing has changed...

To summarize, what bothers me is not legitimate opinions, but "manipulated" facts. Hope I haven't offended you, because I really didn't mean to, but that's how I feel...

Kisses

[Louis14]

Originally Posted by Grace

I'll tell you clearly why it annoys me that we go round and round again on this subject: if you just stated your wishes, or opinions on the future (like "I hope Albert will change the Constitution so that Alex can be his Heir", or "I hope Albert marries Nicole so that Alex can be legitimized") I would have absolutely No problem becauseI totally believe in freedom of thought and of speech. What bothers me is that you tend to "bend" the facts and the Constitutional theories to prove your point, so each time you post, people think they got the whole thing wrong, and other people feel the need to rectify what you stated. When you say that Monaco has to adopt and respect French legislation, or that Monaco is a member of EU, etc. you just change facts to back up your opinions.
For months we've been posting the same things again and again, and whatever the French public opinion thinks (assuming they had any power on these things, they seemed more interested in CPE anyway) nothing has changed...

To summarize, what bothers me is not legitimate opinions, but "manipulated" facts. Hope I haven't offended you, because I really didn't mean to, but that's how I feel...

Kisses

Dear Princess,

This forum is a democratic place.
I respect your opinion, thank you to respect mine.

Par la Grâce de Dieu, Louis-le-14ème.

[Elspeth]

Grace has already said that she respects your opinion. Her objection is to the way you tend to present your opinions as though they were irrefutable facts.

[Louis14]

Here is the link to the French original version of the 2002 Treaty signed by France and Monaco.
Free to everyone to translate it in order to form his own opinion about the real nature of France/Monaco relations.



http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad...o=MAEJ0530100D



Par la Grâce de Dieu, Louis-le-14ème.

[rosalee]

Why does everyone in present day have a problem with Eric? I think some part of it was included in the media calling him "The Black Prince". Princess Charlotte (great-grandmother) was herself not a white woman. She was of black origin herself, from Algeria, colour watered down only by her princely white father.

[rosalee]

Is it not a bit inhuman to somehow validate that the children of a new wife PA would have would somehow be more valuable than the children he already has?

[Next Star]

Okay lt's get straight to the point no out of wedlock children of any member of the Monaco princely family male or female can inherit the throne.His or her parents must be legally married for this to happen.It has been said numerous times the laws in France do not abide in Monaco being that both are soverign states.The line of succession will not change until someone was a new child in wedlock or marries the father or mother of a unwedlock child and then that child takes his or her place in the line of succesion to the throne.

[oxygen]

Yes, Eric is currently the only direct offspring of Albert.

Albert also has a daughter named Jazmin, but she too is "illegitimate."

I'm pretty sure Alexandra is considered to be a legitimate heir because she was born within the confines of marriage. Though she is being raised protestant should the need for her to rule occur she could convert to Catholicism.

[Bones]

I think it is also important to remember that since Albert's two children have been born out of wedlock and are raised by their mothers he does not play a *major* role in their lives (nor do I think their mothers intended him to really). This should be considered as a practical reason for their exclusion from the succession. Most here seem to agree that Rainier III was good and able monarch. I would think that was largely possible because Prince Louis II had spent a good amount of time preparing him for the job so he would be as ready for it as he could when it came.

In similar fashion I think Rainier tried to see to it that Albert II had as much preparation as possible taking over the job (mostly a business and economics understanding) and in that regard I think he was successful. Albert could not do this with his illegitimate children nor could their mothers have been expecting (reasonably) a lasting relationship to come from a passing fling. I think they already got what they most wanted and reasonably expected which is a share of the Grimaldi family fortune.

Monaco is also an officially Catholic monarchy and this has been a problem for the succession in the past because of the strict laws requiring legitimacy. Albert would probably need to marry the mother of the child in question and that would obviously never happen as Albert has been open and honest about never wanting a long term relationship with either of them and more or less being tricked into the fatherhood part (the old, 'I took the pill, I swear' line) so I don't think either of them really expected marriage and a princess job as a possibility (though I'm sure they may have had dreams that their chance was at hand to trap the grand prize).

I think Princess Caroline would make a fine sovereign for Monaco, despite her early troubles she's proven to be a real trooper after the tragic loss of her mother. as it stands now it's going to be her job anyway. Albert would have to marry, have legitimate offspring and hopefully instill in his heir some good business sense and hopefully a little more common sense that His Serene Highness has displayed (may God save him).

**addition: didn't notice where you were from oxygen. Is it still humid up there in Houston? ;-)

[Zonk]

Bones...as Albert's children are raised (somewhat) out of the media's eyes...let's not assume that he does not play a "major" role in their life. Yes, their mother's have primary and physical custody....but we don't know what goes on in their lives 24/7.

In addition, we are not going to go down the road where we get into a tiresome discussion on whether or not either woman tried to trap Albert into marriage. I know you are fairly new to the board, but we have gone down this road before and its not pretty.

This is highly speculative.

[Bones]

My comments were based only on taking Albert for his word as to what happened. I also know from news articles and photos that he has been involved in the lives of his children, I certainly did not mean to imply that he has not, he has spent some time with them and has made generous provision for their care and education, my point simply was that as they do reside with their mothers he is not in a position to groom them for the throne as he was even if that were not a legal impossibility.