The Grimaldi Ancestors


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
:bounce:ooo, must have, must have! :w00t:Santa....... !
:monacostandard::monacoflag::santa2:
 
a wedding which was nearly cancelled !

hi
am wondering if any fellow members, may have any further details of the wedding of Prince Honore III and Catherine De Brignole, which according to my one and only source, was nearly cancelled at the last moment by the brides mother !

the story goes like this....

having arrived from genoa by sea in a galley, the brides mother insisted that Prince Honore should come aboard to collect his bride. he being a sovereign prince refused to do so, going no further than the landing stage.

the brides mother took offence and ordered the Genoese flotilla to set sail back to Bordighera....however it returned two days later only by the fact that the brides uncle., who was moved by Catherine's tears, found a solution to the problem. a bridge of boats was built between the galley and the shore and the couple met half way and thus wedding went ahead as planned !!

it will be appreciated if anyone could confirm the truth of the story. as i have found no other referances of the story elsewhere !!

thanks in advance......:flowers:
 
Gistening Seas

:hellokitty: wow that's the first we had ever heard of this account.

:thistle: So glad you could share it with us. We cannot imagine what foolishness enters the hearts sometimes. Thank God one of the in-laws had their thinking cap on:heartflower:
 
Wikipedia has a good article about the family of Maria Caterina:

Marie-Catherine Brignole-Sale - Wikipédia

A sad story... Maria Caterina was in love with the Duke of Enghien, a member of the Bourbon family.
But her mother forbade the match and wanted her to marry Honoré instead.

To make things even more complicated, Maria's father was against her marrying Honoré, for reasons of money, and the bad reputation of Honoré.

They did get married, but the marriage did not flourish, as Honoré was jealous. Maria even flew into a convent. The bishop of the convent was a Grimaldi!
Honoré tried to appeal to the Paris Parliament, but Louis the Fifteenth abolished the parliaments - just like that!

Still, there was some happiness for Maria as she married her former lover Louis Bourbon-Condé, and they lived at Wimbledon in England.
When she died, the Royal Family paid for the funeral.
 
:previous:
hi thank you for the link i will take a look at it shortly.

yes it is said that Honore was very determind, unlike his predecessors to marry for love and that he lost his heart to Catherine, which might explain the fact he was such a jealous husband....

well its this story about the wedding : no matter, where i seek another referance or source i am unable to find one.:bang:
the most annoying bit is the one and only source which i have, the author does state her source at all ! :sad:

well thats authors for you :whistling:

thanks again for your feedback...its much appreciated and before i forget you are welcome too glistening seas :flowers:

PS
WOW !!......at long last i have another source for the story, which is slightly differant !!
i must abmitt (with me being british) i did not search amomgst the non english websites etc and am most grateful for your kind help Renata4711....what a star you are....:flowers::flowers:
 
Last edited:
I have heard that story a number of ways myself. What comes to mind is that they had a stand-off of sorts first and the mother-in-law-to-be got mad and had the bridal flotilla sail away until everyone got seasick, then they came back and planned to extend a bridge and meet in the middle but that that didn't work out and poor Honore III finally got fed up, grabbed a nearbye boat and went out to the ship to claim his bride. Also, if I'm thinking of the right one, a reason for the father's opposition to the match was that Honore had previously had an affair with the girl's mother.

:monacostandard: :monacoflag:
 
Bones, you're right - what a to-do - first he has the mother, then the daughter - but among the aristocracy of the time, that was normal behaviour, I believe...

Jonnydep, I only summarised the French Wikipedia article in a somewhat loose fashion :)

Will try and find more detail......
 
:previous:
hi .....
no worries, i ve got a translater on pc, so i have read the link ok thanks.
very interesting indeed, i have learned quite a lot of stuff, which i did not know about....:D, so thanks again....its :cool:
cheers jonnydep. :flowers:
 
Glisteing Seas

:rose2:So, you are saying the mother had an affair with the guy and then got annoyed and wouldn't let the daughter marry the guy?

:parrot: Hopefully it was a marriage of love?? Guess the family didn't visit much after the wedding?:lol: :heartflower:
 
Alberto Vincent Grimaldi

Thanks to all of you who responded to my query. I have done more research both online and with an older family member. My Aunt now
age 90 tells me that grfa was a red head. He did not leave Italy be
cause of not wanting to marry someone. He left because he was in
volved in something the family didn't like. Soo........getting interesting.
I did contact my psychic in Cassadega, Fla who told me that my gr grmo
was from Bari and is buried there. My gr fa Alberto she saw him at the Vatican being rushed out and then sent to Palermo. Evidently he was
involved in something and the Vatican helped him out. He left for the
USA from Palermo not Naples as we had thought. She said I will find
my grfa's family through a younger member of the family named Pino.
I have since learned from my aunt that I have a cousin last name of
Pino living in the Orlando Fla. area. Getting closer to my quest and
greatly appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Eileen B. Deer
Now living on St. Simons Island, Ga. and loving it!!
 
I have since found out that my gr fa had red hair and spoke "grammar italian" whatever that means. He was a papal guard and later a detective with the Carabinieri in Rome. He was forced to leave Rome under the auspices of the
Vatican and travelled to Sicily where he left for America and never turned back. He
never discussed his family or brought pictures of his family with him to America.
 
Alberto Vincent Grimaldi

To answer the lady's question: My grandfather told my mother that he was related to "that Momaco bunch" . They were cousins second or
third. I can't find any info about his side of the family. I did find out
though that he was a member of the Pope's noble guard. I am still
trying to find out more about him.
 
Did HSH Prince Rainier III ever officially state why it was his wish, and addressed in Monagasque law, that illegitimate children of a SH of Monaco would not be officially in line to inherit Monaco's throne? Was not his mother, HSH Princess Charlotte of Monaco, born illegitimate issue of his grandfather, HSH Prince Louis III of Monaco? Also, as HSH Princess Charlotte was born in the northern African country of Algeria, was she of mixed racial heritage?
Did the current Prince of Monaco, HSH Albert II, who will wed tomorrow, keep his two illegitimate children under wraps while his father alive? I do believe PA's 'daughter' Jazmin was born in the US, but were was his son, Nicholas Coste born? Is Nicholas himself racially mixed? Is Jazmin racially mixed? Any official comment from HSH why his son, or his daughter, is not worthy to have the right to throne of Monaco? Could either child ever have claim to Monaco's throne, as the law was made after either of their births? It is simply neither of these children's faults to have been born illegitimate; they should not be denied their birth rites. Children should never suffer the sins of, yes - their father (or their mother).
I have read different articles throughout the years of all these different accounts, and I ask these questions only to learn correct information.
 
NotHRH said:
Did HSH Prince Rainier III ever officially state why it was his wish, and addressed in Monagasque law, that illegitimate children of a SH of Monaco would not be officially in line to inherit Monaco's throne? Was not his mother, HSH Princess Charlotte of Monaco, born illegitimate issue of his grandfather, HSH Prince Louis III of Monaco? Also, as HSH Princess Charlotte was born in the northern African country of Algeria, was she of mixed racial heritage?
Did the current Prince of Monaco, HSH Albert II, who will wed tomorrow, keep his two illegitimate children under wraps while his father alive? I do believe PA's 'daughter' Jazmin was born in the US, but were was his son, Nicholas Coste born? Is Nicholas himself racially mixed? Is Jazmin racially mixed? Any official comment from HSH why his son, or his daughter, is not worthy to have the right to throne of Monaco? Could either child ever have claim to Monaco's throne, as the law was made after either of their births? It is simply neither of these children's faults to have been born illegitimate; they should not be denied their birth rites. Children should never suffer the sins of, yes - their father (or their mother).
I have read different articles throughout the years of all these different accounts, and I ask these questions only to learn correct information.
Click to expand...
I’m not familiar with any ruler being illegitimate. This is what I know Louis III didn’t have a legitimate heir therefore being an only child Albert I had Louis adopt Charlotte to make her the legal heir otherwise Monaco would have reverted to French rule. Rainier changed the treaty with France, and Monaco became an Independent State. Many people don’t see that still thinking it will revert. Rainier took adoption out of the Constitution that Albert I put in to cover Charlotte because Rainier had 3 children, Caroline with 4, Albert and Stephanie who has 3 children except Cammy isn’t eligible being illegitimate.

Rainier knew about both children however, some will disagree. His son is Alexandre you can read about here. Neither child can lay claim to the Throne since they are illegitimate, its the law. Their birth right entitles them to an equal percentage of his personal estate as does any legitimate heirs. The estate is divided in half, one half he can leave to anyone the other is the part split equally among all his children. The mothers have houses, cars, vacation money the children support none of the have to work unless they want to. In fact are doing better than being divorced.
 
Last edited:
LadyMacAlpine said:
I’m not familiar with any ruler being illegitimate. This is what I know Louis III didn’t have a legitimate heir therefore being an only child Albert I had Louis adopt Charlotte to make her the legal heir otherwise Monaco would have reverted to French rule. Rainier changed the treaty with France, and Monaco became an Independent State. Many people don’t see that still thinking it will revert. Rainier took adoption out of the Constitution that Albert I put in to cover Charlotte because Rainier had 3 children, Caroline with 4, Albert and Stephanie who has 3 children except Cammy isn’t eligible being illegitimate.

Rainier knew about both children however, some will disagree. His son is Alexandre you can read about here. Neither child can lay claim to the Throne since they are illegitimate, its the law. Their birth right entitles them to an equal percentage of his personal estate as does any legitimate heirs. The estate is divided in half, one half he can leave to anyone the other is the part split equally among all his children. The mothers have houses, cars, vacation money the children support none of the have to work unless they want to. In fact are doing better than being divorced.
Click to expand...


You have missed the point of my post. Simply, illegitimate children are not responsible for their classification as such. Why should either of PA's acknowledge children not be in line to Monaco's throne? They are being denied their birthrite, as HSH's children, to be H/HSH, Prince/ss of Monaco. Sins of the father and mother should never be placed on a child under any circumstances. Alexandre and Jazmin are being punished for their 'illegitimate' status. How very sad for both of PA's children. I thought society had moved past such a ridiculous notion! Don't you agree? If not, why?
 
grimaldigirl said:
To answer the lady's question: My grandfather told my mother that he was related to "that Momaco bunch" . They were cousins second or
third. I can't find any info about his side of the family. I did find out
though that he was a member of the Pope's noble guard. I am still
trying to find out more about him.
Click to expand...


grimaldigirl,
There are many websites devoted to only
information such as you seek to find. 'Ancestry.com' will maybe lead you to information about your grandfather and his connection to the royal family of Monaco.
 
NotHRH said:
You have missed the point of my post. Simply, illegitimate children are not responsible for their classification as such. Why should either of PA's acknowledge children not be in line to Monaco's throne? They are being denied their birthrite, as HSH's children, to be H/HSH, Prince/ss of Monaco. Sins of the father and mother should never be placed on a child under any circumstances. Alexandre and Jazmin are being punished for their 'illegitimate' status. How very sad for both of PA's children. I thought society had moved past such a ridiculous notion! Don't you agree? If not, why?
Click to expand...

I don't think PA would agree.

Yes, the children are not responsible for the circumstances of their birth, and yes, PA has acknowledged them (after he was forced to, via paternity tests).

That's a far cry from wanting to hand over his centuries-old throne to what is, to be honest, the result of a casual fling. It's about intention. PA probably never intended to father these children at all; if he wished for one to become his heir, he'd have married the mother once he discovered her pregnancy. JMO.
 
Last edited:
NotHRH said:
You have missed the point of my post. Simply, illegitimate children are not responsible for their classification as such. Why should either of PA's acknowledge children not be in line to Monaco's throne? They are being denied their birthrite, as HSH's children, to be H/HSH, Prince/ss of Monaco. Sins of the father and mother should never be placed on a child under any circumstances. Alexandre and Jazmin are being punished for their 'illegitimate' status. How very sad for both of PA's children. I thought society had moved past such a ridiculous notion! Don't you agree? If not, why?
Click to expand...
I didn't miss it. I think you have missed whats been in existence since Royalty and laws began. They are in line for their birthright his estate and they are lucky French law guarantees that our country doesn't. The Throne is not part of their birthright. That is how it has always been.

Mirabel said:
I don't think PA would agree.

Yes, the children are not responsible for the circumstances of their birth, and yes, PA has acknowledged them (after he was forced to, via paternity tests).

That's a far cry from wanting to hand over his centuries-old throne to what is, to be honest, the result of a casual fling. It's about intention. PA probably never intended to father these children at all; if he wished for one to become his heir, he'd have married the mother once he discovered her pregnancy. JMO.
Click to expand...
You are correct if he had wanted either to be his heir he would have married their mother.
 
LadyMacAlpine said:
I didn't miss it. I think you have missed whats been in existence since Royalty and laws began. They are in line for their birthright his estate and they are lucky French law guarantees that our country doesn't. The Throne is not part of their birthright. That is how it has always been.

You are correct if he had wanted either to be his heir he would have married their mother.
Click to expand...

They may be entitled under French law, but as Albert is Monagasque are you sure the same laws apply? After all Rainier did not apprently divide his estate evenly between his 3 children. Surely there must be some clause or exemption in Monagasque inheritance laws to protect the sovereigns estate from being diminshed by division between children.
 
NGalitzine said:
They may be entitled under French law, but as Albert is Monagasque are you sure the same laws apply? After all Rainier did not apprently divide his estate evenly between his 3 children. Surely there must be some clause or exemption in Monagasque inheritance laws to protect the sovereigns estate from being diminshed by division between children.
Click to expand...
Yes, the agreements were made in Paris, France and there was a press released they would receive equal shares of the fifty percent with any legitimate heirs. Look back at the 2005 threads on Alex and you should find one of the releases done in the beginning of July. Another in May I believe of 2006 on Jazmin.

The estate is split in half. Half can be left to anyone they want like Rainier left to Albert and Caroline being the heirs to the throne. The other half was split equally 3 ways. Albert makes sure Stephanie and her children are well cared for and it was said Rainier feared she would become involved with another man who would take advantage of her for money. Also don't forget part of the Sovereigns wealth is for the Sovereigns to use and is passed to the next one and can't be given away. Louis II tried to give somethings to his widow and she refused to leave the Palace.
 
Yes, Luous II's will was overturned by Rainier regarding Ghislaine. How do we know that Albert did not do the same with Rainier's will or that Al's successor could do something similar with Albert's will. After all, the Souverain Prince has ABSOLUTE power.
 
Photo of Marie Juliette Louvet?

Has anybody ever seen a picture of Marie Juliette Louvet, mother of Princess Charlotte of Monaco?

I know she was the mistress of a prince and not his wife, but still, there must be photos. She lived from 1867 to 1930, she was married to a photographer and she was the grandmother of a reigning prince - it is so unlikely that she was never photographed!
 
I would love to see a photo of Marie Juliette!
Honestly i don't remember ever seeing one.

Here's a funny fact, that maybe some already has noticed: Grace wasn't the first actress, or woman in involved in the entertainment world, to be linked with the Grimaldis: we have Ghislaine, that was an actress, we have Gisele Pascal, that was also an actress, and apparently Marie Juliette was a cabaret singer.
 
Wasn't princess Charlotte's mother described as a washerwoman? I am sure I read this more than once.

I found this in wiki "Known as Juliette, Louvet was the daughter of Jacques Henri Louvet and his first wife, Joséphine Elmire Piedefer.

She married photographer Achille Delmaet, but they divorced in 1893. They had two children, Georges and Marguerite.

Juliette Louvet became an entertainer of sorts, reportedly a cabaret singer (other sources identify her as a laundress and a dressmaker), then was Prince Louis's lover. She gave birth to their daughter, Charlotte, in Constantine, Algeria, in 1898.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I absolutely like the stills of the wedding of Princess Charlotte and Count Pierre de Polignac in 1920. Did Charlotte and Pierre's son, Ranier III inherit the title of Comte de Polignac?

According to the treaty made between Honore II of Monaco and King Louis XIII of France in 1642, the duchy of Valentinois could descend to either male or female issue, but the peerage and recognition at Court became extinct if a woman inherited it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No, I think he didn't.

According to various sources his titles were "Prince de Monaco, Duc de Valentinois, Marquis des Baux, Comte de Carladès, Baron du Buis, Seigneur de Saint-Remy, Sire de Matignon, Comte de Torigni, Baron de Saint-Lô, de la Luthumière et de Hambye, Duc d’Estouteville, de Mazarin et de Mayenne, Prince de Château-Porcien, Comte de Ferrette, de Belfort, de Thann et de Rosemont, Baron d’Altkirch Seigneur d’Isenheim, Marquis de Chilly, Comte de Longjumeau, Baron de Massy, Marquis de Guiscard".
 
CyrilVladisla said:
I absolutely like the stills of the wedding of Princess Charlotte and Count Pierre de Polignac in 1920. Did Charlotte and Pierre's son, Ranier III inherit the title of Comte de Polignac?
Click to expand...

As per Wikipedia the Full list of Titles/Styles for the Current Sovereign Prince are :

Sovereign Prince of Monaco
Duke of Valentinois
Duke of Estouteville
Duke of Mazarin
Duke of Mayenne
Prince of Château-Porcien
Marquis of Baux
Marquis of Chilly-Mazarin
Marquis of Guiscard
Marquis of Bailli
Count of Polignac (French title)
Count of Carladès
Count of Ferrette, Belfort, Thann and Rosemont
Count of Torigni
Count of Longjumeau
Count of Clèdes
Baron of Calvinet
Baron of Buis
Baron of La Luthumière
Baron of Hambye
Baron of Altkirch
Baron of Saint-Lô
Baron of Massy
Seigneur of Issenheim
Seigneur of Saint-Rémy
Sire of Matignon
 
In 1660 Prince Louis of Monaco was the heir apparent of Prince Honore II, his paternal grandfather. In 1660 King Louis XIII of France's wedding gift to Prince Louis was the Duchy of Valentinois, the Duchy of Carladez, the Marquisate of Baux and the Lordship of Buis.

Federico Landi, Prince de Valdetare was the Regent for his nephew, Honore II.
The Prince de Valdetare was determined to have his nephew assume the title of Prince de Monaco.
In 1612, in a document requiring Honore's signature, the Prince de Valdetare inserted the words:

"Honore II, regnant, prince and seigneur by the grace of God of Monaco, Mentone, and Roquelrune."

The Spanish government let this statement stay in the document.
​

After the demise of her father Antoine I, Louise-Hippolyte returned to Monaco alone.
She took the oath of loyalty and was immediately made Princesse de Monaco without any mention of her husband Jacques.
Louise-Hippolyte decreed that she would reign alone.
All documents were to be in her name only.
​

In The Grimaldis of Monaco, Anne Edwards wrote:

Honore V's initial edict on March 12, 1815 (after decreeing that the official language would return to French, for he spoke very little Italian) was to have all property that had been confiscated by the revolutionary forces, which was now distributed among the former communes, hospitals and churches, made over to him, as well as revenues from all taxes.
​

Albert I was at sea when he was informed of his father Charles III's demise and altered his course back to Monaco.
On October 23, 1889 he accepted the oath of loyalty in the courtyard of the Palace.
The ceremony had not been performed there since 1731, when Honore III had returned to succeed his mother, Louise-Hippolyte.
​

In The Grimaldis of Monaco, Anne Edwards wrote:

When Queen Victoria and Prince Albert paid a return visit to France in September 1855, Charles and Antoinette (of Monaco) attended the great ball in their honor at Versailles. For Antoinette this was the greatest moment of her life, the imperial grandeur of it was to affect her for the rest of her life. From this time she conjured up the dream that her son, Albert, then only a small child, would marry into the British royal family.
​
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Laws of the House of Grimaldi
Replies
3
Views
411
Tatiana Maria
T
Somebody
  • Sticky
The Royal House of Serbia: Birthday and Anniversary Wishes 2024
Replies
3
Views
579
Biri
B
Marengo
  • Sticky
France: Birthday and Anniversary Wishes 2024
Replies
0
Views
277
Marengo
Marengo
CrownPrincessJava
  • Sticky
Italy: Birthday and Anniversary Wishes 2024
Replies
4
Views
405
CyrilVladisla
CyrilVladisla
Blog Real
King Carlo Emanuele III (1701-1773) and Wives
Replies
1
Views
341
CyrilVladisla
CyrilVladisla

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom