The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #221  
Old 12-12-2015, 03:52 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,766
In 2015 it has no relevance anymore: SH, HH, HRH, HIH and HI&RH but until not so long ago the two principalities were not taken very au sérieux by the rest.

Still there has not been any royal State Visit from and to these two countries. The Prince of Monaco makes a lot of Official Visits but the only Visites d'État (which has to be agreed with the host country) were to Ireland (2011) and to Czech Republic (2015). There was no incoming State Visit.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 12-12-2015, 06:20 PM
melina premiere's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sassenage, France
Posts: 3,092
Duc and Pair, you don't like Monaco , it is your right but don't say idioties, you want to show that you know all but you know nothing, absolutely nothing.
Any country with a government , a national parlement and is member of the Onu is taken au sérieux. big country or tiny country. Happily you are not president of ONU because I would be worried about the future of the world
Ptince Albert begins his reign in april 2005 and not in 2011
he did a lot of official visits which are very important because he is reigning and also governing as head of states, not like the other Kings or Queens of Europa. He is present at each agreement with a country .
Offitial visits
Suisse, China, Estonia,Timor oriental,Belgium, Austria,Mongolia,(2008) Romania,Croatia,USA,Italia,Senegal,Emirat, San Marino(2009)
Portugal, Japan,Lebanon,Ireland,Lutvia and Estonia,(2011)
Malte,Burkina Faso,South Korea;Germany,Kazakstan, Israel,(2012)
Russia federation
Monténégro, Chile,Czech Republic(2015)
He received in official visit in the palace of Monaco (présidents Chirac, Sarkozy and Hollande,president of Bosnia Herzegovia,Grand Master of Malta,, Ben KI Moon, president of ONU,president of Slovania,presidents of San Marino,president of Monténégro
Prince Albert is each year at the general opening of the ONU where he makes a speech as head of state and he is received as the other heads of states at the white house by the president O Bama.
He is present at the mondial big meetings as head of states of a country, francophonie summit, business summit, OCDE and so,
There are a lot big meetings in Monaco as Interpol or CIO,
Monaco is a rich country with a bufget which could make a lot of jalious .
Prince Albert is as royal as the other royals, he is the guest of royal meetings as the jubelee of the queen Elisabeth and he was taken in photos with the reigning Kings and reigning princes.The Grimaldi family is also Cousn of the Queen Elisabeth, the grandgrand Mother was of the family of Hamilton who was also family of the queen mother family. Principauty has a glorious history as the other countries and it is not useful to deny it.or it is a snobism.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 12-12-2015, 06:54 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Detroit, United States
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

Still there has not been any royal State Visit from and to these two countries. The Prince of Monaco makes a lot of Official Visits but the only Visites d'État (which has to be agreed with the host country) were to Ireland (2011) and to Czech Republic (2015). There was no incoming State Visit.
I believe that in 2012 they made a state visit to my home country of Poland. There are photos of the visit and they received Polish orders. There may be other state visits you are missing from your list but off the top of my head I only know about my own country.
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 12-12-2015, 08:22 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
They would be ranked under different systems really. Every monarchy in Europe is at this point considered to be equal; if Hans-Adam II is "higher than" Albert II it's because he's reigned longer than Albert, not because he somehow outranks him. At the same time, Albert, while an HSH, would be "higher than" Felipe VI, an HM, as he's ruled longer.

We've put a lot of argument into the styling, but ultimately outside of the individual realms they're not necessarily significant. Well, I mean, there's an argument that the Prince Consorts, as HRHs, are beneath the Queen Consorts, as HMs, but that's a debate that I think few other than Prince Henrik really fuss over. Within some realms there is a deliberate ranking - within Norway, you have HM, HRH, and HH, which all correspond clearly to an individual's rank within the family - while in others there isn't - all the Liechtensteiner royals are HSH. But you're not going to see Hans-Adam II or Albert II bow to Harald V.
Just a small correction about all Liechenstein royals being HSH: from Wikipedia: From her birth in 1967, Sophie was styled*HRH Princess Sophie of Bavaria. In 1973, her father inherited the family name and style*Duke in Bavaria*from his great-uncle, who had adopted him as heir in 1965; Sophie was then styled as*HRH Duchess Sophie in Bavaria, Princess of Bavaria. On her marriage in 1993 she became*HRH The Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein, Countess of Rietberg, the Principality of Liechtenstein recognising and retaining her use of the style
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 12-12-2015, 08:51 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,268
True, but Sophie's HRH is not because she's a Liechtensteiner royal, but through a claim to a title that hasn't ruled for almost 100 years. It's kind of like Caroline of Monaco's HRH - they acknowledge it, yes, but it is in pretence.
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 12-12-2015, 09:50 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 2,802
Lady Mary Victoria Douglas-Hamilton, the wife of Prince Albert I began with the title of Her Ladyship. Upon her marriage to Prince Albert, she had the title of Her Serene Highness.

The Grimaldi Princes


Princess Louise-Hippolyte was the daughter of Prince Antoine I. She could succeed only if she either married a Grimaldi or her husband changed his name and arms to take on those of the Grimaldis.
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 12-12-2015, 10:15 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Lady Mary Victoria Douglas-Hamilton, the wife of Prince Albert I began with the title of Her Ladyship. Upon her marriage to Prince Albert, she had the title of Her Serene Highness.
She started with the courtesy title Lady Mary Victoria Douglas-Hamilton, as her father was a Duke. When she married Albert I she became Her Serene Highness, The Hereditary Princess of Monaco, but became Lady Mary again when the marriage was annulled. Then she became Countess Mary Victoria Festetics de Tolna on her second marriage, finally ending up Her Serene Highness Princess Mary Victoria Festetics de Tolna, when her second husband, Taszilo Festitics, was made a Prince by King Francis Joseph I of Hungary in 1911.

It is through Lady Mary that the Grimaldis are related to the other reigning monarchs of Europe (as well as more than a few non-reigning ones).
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 12-13-2015, 11:09 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
True, but Sophie's HRH is not because she's a Liechtensteiner royal, but through a claim to a title that hasn't ruled for almost 100 years. It's kind of like Caroline of Monaco's HRH - they acknowledge it, yes, but it is in pretence.
And also Princess Margaretha, who is both a Princess of Liechtenstein and a Princess of Luxembourg, has retained her HRH style from her Luxembourg royal title.
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 12-13-2015, 11:54 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noblehttp://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1847349 Consort Ming View Post
I believe that in 2012 they made a state visit to my home country of Poland. There are photos of the visit and they received Polish orders. There may be other state visits you are missing from your list but off the top of my head I only know about my own country.
The Palais Princier itself only lists Irlande and La République Tchèque as Visite d'État. All other visits, to Chine (2007), Allemage (2008), Belgique (2008), Estonie (2008), France (incoming - 2008), Autriche (2008), Croatie (2009), Sénégal (2009), Roumanie (2009), Slovenie (incoming - 2009), Portugal (2010), Les Açores (2010), Estonie (2011), Allemagne (2012), Lituanie (2012), Kazakhstan (2012), Pologne (2012), Turquie (2012), France (2012), Palaos (2013), Nations-Unies (incoming - 2013), Monténégro (2013), Fédération de Russie (2013), France (incoming - 2013), Monténégro (incoming - 2014), La Croix-Rouge International (incoming - 2014), Pays-Bas (2014), Principauté de Saint-Marin (incoming - 2015) were listed as a Visite Officielle, lasting only a couple of hours and usually without too much tralala.

An exception was the "Visite Officielle aux Pays-Bas" where the King and Queen indeed offered a gala banquet in honour of the Prince and Princess. Sadly Princess Charlène had to cancel her attendance. See picture. You only need to see the blue "daily" uniforms of the footmen to dedicate the level of formality. The footmen in ceremonial tenues: see picture. That is already an indication for the protocollary level of a visit.
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 01-06-2016, 03:34 AM
melina premiere's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sassenage, France
Posts: 3,092
For me, there is no difference between a visite officielle

My God! you judge the relations between two countries with the tenues of the servants! I am not surprised with you !
there are no difference between a visit d'etat and une visite officielle, the voisits lasted always 2or 3 days , the first day with the meeting of the head of the state of the visited country and the banquet, the day 2 with very often the prime minister ot the chief of parlemant and visits of the entreprises and day 3 very often visits of other towns of this country, look at the agandas of these visits, . Behind these visits there are contrats , a team of business men is with the prince and there are contacts between the countries, if there are visits no matter the visite d'etat or visite officielle, there are interests behind these visits, economic interests, cultural interests or environmental interest
Albert was among the head of states at the very important COP 21 with Charles of Wales,where were the other Kings, Queens ?
Since the prince Albert is prince sovereign , there area lot of ambassadand consulat which have open in Monaco.
You don't appreciat Monaco and his prince, but who are you to judge that a country is not worth, is not important, his history is nothing, the ancestors are nothing,?Monaco is a principauty whith a dinasty the Grimaldi family who is ruling since 800 YEARS it is the most old dynasty ruling in Euroma,

(..)

All the people of the countries are pride of their history, of their dinasty and their ancestors if there are still a monarchy or even if there a republic T respect their history and their country because a people of USA is pride of the story of his country like a English people is pride of his queen or a french people is pride of his history


I think it is insulting these people when somebody is always denying their monarchy, their dinasty or their country because he judge that this country is small ..... I will not repeat what I read in these last comments
As we are on the Monaco board, Monaco is a principauty which has a dinasty as the other monarchies, which has along history with princes, which is an independant country which is at the UN since 1993, and WHich has a prince which is invited at all the festivities of the royals , a lot of heads of states, Kings, queens came to attend the funeral of the Princess Grace and at the funeral of the Prince Rainier and who came to attend the wedding of the prince Albert. (..)
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 01-08-2016, 05:19 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 623
I really think it's cause Monaco is so small (area-wise), but it also the most densely populated country in the world. Monaco and Liechenstein are Europe's only 2 principalities, but both their Sovereign Princes and populations are the richest in Europe. Both countries and princely families are laughing all the way to the bank 💱. Don't think Albert and Company give a 💩 what people think of him, his family, or his country! EASY lies the head that wears the Crown!!! 😏👑
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 01-08-2016, 06:27 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
For me, there is no difference between a visite officielle

My God! you judge the relations between two countries with the tenues of the servants! I am not surprised with you !
[...]
No need to be surprised. Just check the facts. From the Protocol Office of the EU - followed by all EU memberstates (including Monaco):

Une Visite d’État est une visite officielle d’un Chef d’État étranger à l’invitation d'un Chef d'État. Il s’agit de la concrétisation des bonnes relations entre les États concernés au niveau le plus élevé. Le programme détaillé est préparé par le Protocole en étroite collaboration avec les services du Chef d'État et avec l’Ambassade de l’État étranger. Une Visite d’État dure en général deux à trois jours. Elle se compose d’une cérémonie officielle d’accueil et d’adieu avec le protocole plus élevé, et d’un dîner de gala offert par le Chef d'État.

Une Visite Officielle est une visite d’un Chef d’État étranger à l’invitation du Gouvernement. On parle également d’une visite officielle lorsqu’un Premier Ministre ou un Ministre des Affaires étrangères rend visite à son homologue à l’invitation de ce dernier. La durée d'une visite officielle varie de un à deux jours pour un Chef d'État; celle d'un Premier Ministre ou Ministre des Affaires étrangères est de un jour.

TRANSLATION


A State Visit is a visit by a foreign head of state on the invitation a head of state. It is intended to cement relations between the relevant states at the highest level. A detailed schedule is drawn up by the Protocol in close collaboration with the staff of the head of state and the Embassy of the foreign state. A State Visit generally lasts two or three days. It includes an official welcome and a farewell ceremony with the highest protocol, and a gala banquet hosted by the head of state.

An Official Visit is a visit by a foreign head of state on the invitation of the Government. The term ‘official visit’ is also used when a foreign Prime Minister or Minister of Foreign Affairs pay a visit to his or her counterpart on the invitation of the latter. An Official Visit by a head of state lasts one or two days, while those by a Prime Minister or a Minister of Foreign Affairs lasts one day.
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 01-08-2016, 07:13 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Detroit, United States
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
I really think it's cause Monaco is so small (area-wise), but it also the most densely populated country in the world. Monaco and Liechenstein are Europe's only 2 principalities, but both their Sovereign Princes and populations are the richest in Europe. Both countries and princely families are laughing all the way to the bank 💱. Don't think Albert and Company give a 💩 what people think of him, his family, or his country! EASY lies the head that wears the Crown!!! 😏👑

Andorra is also a principality. It has two co-princes, the Bishop of Urgell and the president of France. Right now François Hollande of France is one of the co-princes of Andorra.
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 01-09-2016, 09:35 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
For me, there is no difference between a visite officielle

My God! you judge the relations between two countries with the tenues of the servants! [...]
Just look to Downton Abbey and then you can already see that Charles Carson (the butler), Thomas Barrow (the underbutler), John Bates (the valet), Joseph Molesley (the first footman), Andrew Parker (the second footman), etc. not only have different tenues to designate their function but also different tenues to go with an event. This practice is still followed by royal or aristocrat houses which still maintain a formal Household. When you want to know the (protocollary) level of a visit, it is often enough to look to the uniforms of the servants indeed. An official visit, or a cravate noir event, etc. has a different tenue from a State Visit or a cravate blanc event. That is no fantasy but just fact.

- The Prince of Monaco made a visit, this was no official visit, do no demi-gala for the servants. This was no State Visit, so no grand gala for the servants. What you see is the "neat tenue": formal blue without gold galon: see picture.

- A more formal event will see the servants in demi-gala, you can see some gold galon: see picture and see picture.

- The highest level of protocol for servants is when they wear grand gala: maximal gold galon: see picture and see picture.

So in contrary to what you claim, at all palaces, royal and republican, a difference is made in State Visits and official visits. And indeed, as my pictures proved it, it is also no nonsense to look to the uniforms of the servants. Or that of the Guards of Honour. Or to look to the escorte (is it by horses or "just" by motorcade?). All these details together tell a whole story indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 07-27-2016, 10:03 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 2,802
Are any of the Grimaldis descended from Napoleon I's wife, Empress Josephine?
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 07-27-2016, 11:51 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 5,618
The Polignacs (Pierre's family had close ties to the monarchy, ancestress Yolande wife of the 1st duke was a favorite of Marie Antoinette. Her son Auguste was PM under Charles X. Pierre is descended from her youngest son Camille.

The closest link to Monaco I find is Theodolinde, Eugene's daughter wed the Duke of Urach. Duke's 2nd wife was Florestine of Monaco, sister of Charles III. It was her who had the German claim to Monaco. If Charlotte had not been made heir by the French her line stood to inherit, but not wanting a German in power, French allowed Louis II to name his natural child heir. So no biological link, simply Theo's daughters half siblings to the Urach claim.

They are descended by Stephanie, who was adopted by Napoleon. Stephanie's youngest child Marie Amelia married the Duke of Hamilton and their youngest Mary Victoria's 1st husband was Albert I of Monaco.She was mother of Louis II making her Rainier's great-grandmother.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:09 PM
Iain's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Consort Ming View Post
Andorra is also a principality. It has two co-princes, the Bishop of Urgell and the president of France. Right now François Hollande of France is one of the co-princes of Andorra.
And Wales is also a principality.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:56 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
And Wales is also a principality.


Wales is not a principality. Wales is a part of the United Kingdom and is not an independent state.
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 06-01-2017, 12:54 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 5,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
And Wales is also a principality.
Wales has not been a principality since the 1500s when it officially became part of England. Prince of Wales is simply a title, like Duke of Cambridge. If a principality, Charles would a sovereign Prince which he isn't.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monaco's succession issues Julia Princely Family of Monaco 640 09-21-2016 12:29 PM
The will of Lord John Grimaldi of Monaco (1454) Louis14 Monegasque Princely History 242 05-24-2011 06:01 PM
Photo Retrospective of the Grimaldi Family - Part V Mandy Princely Family of Monaco 191 06-13-2007 05:35 PM
Photo Retrospective of the Grimaldi Family - Part IV Gabriella Princely Family of Monaco 220 04-13-2006 07:22 PM




Popular Tags
albania baptism best gown september 2016 best outfit birthday catherine christening of prince alexander coel hen crown prince crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion denmark duchess of cambridge duchess of cambridge eveningwear duchess of cambridge gala dress duke of cambridge europe fascism fashion poll jewels king abdullah ii king carl gustaf and queen silvia king willem-alexander martha louise monarchy natural disasters new zealand norway november 2016 october 2016 october and november 2016 picture of the week prince charles prince liam princess charlene eveningwear princess mary princess mary fashion princess sofia queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia cocktail dresses queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia eveningwear queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen mathilde daytime fashion queen mathilde fashion queen mathilde in jordan queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania fashion rohan royal sally bedell smith september 2016 state visit succession sweden swedish royal family thailand the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises