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  #181  
Old 04-04-2014, 05:06 PM
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The title 'principe' was already in any case used in relation to an Italian title for the Grimaldis since the Middle Ages.
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  #182  
Old 08-02-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
After the demise of her father Antoine I, Louise-Hippolyte returned to Monaco alone.
She took the oath of loyalty and was immediately made Princesse de Monaco without any mention of her husband Jacques.
Louise-Hippolyte decreed that she would reign alone.
All documents were to be in her name only.
Louise Hippolyte, Princess of Monaco is so far the only Sovereign Princess of Monaco but sadly her reign was brief : 20th of February 1731 –29th of December 1731.
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  #183  
Old 11-17-2015, 06:00 AM
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Does the princely family descend from any King or Queen?

(Even from an illegitimate line?)
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  #184  
Old 11-18-2015, 09:28 AM
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Princess Alexandra is a descendant of Queen Victoria through her father Prince Ernst August V of Hannover.
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  #185  
Old 11-18-2015, 10:44 AM
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The Grimaldi Ancestors

Through Marie Amelie of Baden the Grimaldis are descended from Kings of Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Bohemia,Poland, Hungary, Croatia, Germany, France, Jerusalem, Scotland etc... They're also descended from the Habsburg Emperors and the Latin Emperors of Constantinople.


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  #186  
Old 11-18-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by titiromi View Post
Does the princely family descend from any King or Queen?

(Even from an illegitimate line?)
Every currently reigning European monarch is descended from Johan Willem Friso, Prince of Orange and Landgravine Marie Louise of Hesse-Kassel

The line is:

  1. Johan Willem Friso and Landgravine Marie Louise of Hesse-Kassel
  2. Princess Amalia of Nassau-Dietz and Frederick, Hereditary Prince of Baden-Durlach
  3. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden and Landgravine Caroline Louise of Hesse-Darmstadt
  4. Charles Louis, Hereditary Prince of Baden and Landgravine Amalie of Hesse-Darmstadt
  5. Charles, Grand Duke of Baden and Stephanie de Beauharnais
  6. Princess Marie Amelie of Baden and William Hamilton, 11th Duke of Hamilton
  7. Lady Mary Victoria Douglas-Hamilton and Albert I of Monaco
  8. Louis II of Monaco and Ghislaine Dommanget
  9. Princess Charlotte, Duchess of Valentinois and Count Pierre de Polgnac
  10. Ranier III of Monaco and Grace Kelly
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  #187  
Old 11-18-2015, 11:53 AM
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... previous, I agree and the Grimaldi dynasty is the oldest ruling dynasty of Europa

She is 700 years old
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  #188  
Old 11-18-2015, 12:26 PM
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That is simpy not true: "the Grimaldi dynasty is the oldest ruling dynasty of Europe".

The Maison de Monaco is one of the oldest ruling dynasties and it comprises of the family Grimaldi (until 1731), the family De Goyon de Matignon (until 1949) and the family De Polignac (until present). Yes, yes, they have adopted the surname Grimaldi but that does not mean it is the same family.

When you are neglecting this and start being "creative" then there are much, much older reigning dynasties. Denmark, for an example. The United Kingdom, for an example. Sweden even, since they can also trace back to older Houses than the Bernadottes only...

Quote:
Originally Posted by titiromi View Post
Does the princely family descend from any King or Queen?

(Even from an illegitimate line?)
The most direct royal line of course is HRH Princess Alexandra of Hannover, daughter of Princess Caroline. Her father is Ernst August, the Prince of Hannover, by direct male line also a Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Duke of Cumberland and Teviotdale and Earl of Armagh. (Prince Ernst August has the right to petition his cousine Queen Elizabeth II to use his British titles again but has never done so far). Of course, Princess Alexandra belongs to the Royal House of Hannover.

The Princes of Monaco themselves did not directly descend from a King or Queen but by marriage there are royal connections. The current most close royal connection of Prince Albert, Princess Caroline and Princess Stéphanie goes via their ancestor Lady Mary Victoria Douglas-Hamilton, spouse of Prince Albert I of Monaco and their great-great-grandmother. The mother of this Lady Mary Victoria was a daughter of the Grand-Duke of Baden and via him descended to almost all current royal houses.

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  #189  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:08 PM
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Thank you all for your answers :-)
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  #190  
Old 11-18-2015, 04:20 PM
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No need to be connected to queen Victoria to be a great yinasty, each country has a glorious history and big rulers.


The Hannover family has no more power apart to be connected to the English monarchy, they are princes but they are nothing because Germany is a republic as the Habsbourg, the Romanov and so.
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  #191  
Old 11-19-2015, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
No need to be connected to queen Victoria to be a great yinasty, each country has a glorious history and big rulers.


The Hannover family has no more power apart to be connected to the English monarchy, they are princes but they are nothing because Germany is a republic as the Habsbourg, the Romanov and so.
Well, well... "they are nothing" is not true. Queen Frederika of Greece was an aunt to Prince Ernst August. Queen Sofía of Spain is full cousine to Prince Ernst August. His uncle Prince Georg was married to Princess Sophia of Greece, a sister of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

Prince Ernst August has fabulous residences like Schloss Marienburg (handed over to his eldest son), the Fürstenhaus (his private residence). Schloss Herrenhausen, the magnificent palace of the Hannovers was bombed in WWII and has been re-build but is now a public building owned by the State of Hannover.
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  #192  
Old 11-24-2015, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Well, well... "they are nothing" is not true. Queen Frederika of Greece was an aunt to Prince Ernst August. Queen Sofía of Spain is full cousine to Prince Ernst August. His uncle Prince Georg was married to Princess Sophia of Greece, a sister of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

Prince Ernst August has fabulous residences like Schloss Marienburg (handed over to his eldest son), the Fürstenhaus (his private residence). Schloss Herrenhausen, the magnificent palace of the Hannovers was bombed in WWII and has been re-build but is now a public building owned by the State of Hannover.
True....it matters not how royal the Grimaldi's are - actually they are of nobility (noble, not royal, prince/sses) - they are ranked as 2nd (after another principality, Liechtenstein) as the wealthiest European "royal" families. I think the Netherlands royal family ranks 3rd (actually HRH P Beatrix herself) because of their ownership in Royal Dutch Shell. QEII ranks fourth in the list. So I doubt P Albert and family give two hoots that others do not not consider their family "royal" - they aren't. But they are worth over two billion US dollars, and QEII doesn't even come close to that in wealth. Just as someone made himself The Prince of Monaco long ago, someone long ago also made himself The King of England, and every royal/noble family had someone long ago who made himself a King, Queen, prince, princess, Duke, Earl, etc.
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  #193  
Old 12-06-2015, 11:55 AM
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Grimaldi are royal no need to have royal relatives to be royal , Grimaldi family is a reigning family on the principauty of Monaco since 700 years, Monaco is a principauty and the Grimaldi is a family who is reigning , no matter it is a tiny principauty.


The hannover family is no more reigning , the sons of EA of Hnover sold their résidences and when they come in Hanover, they are Misters Hanover, Germany is a republic, they have prestigious relativs and a good pedigree but they are no more reigning, Plbert II is the prince Sovereign of Monavo governing and reigning on Monaco, when he is also the chief of state of Monaco whar are no more the Habsbourg, the Hanover, the Romanov or the family of Greece.


Prince Albert and Prince Hans Adam of Liechenstein are reigning and governing, the other Kings and Queens are only reigning nothing other. Monaco has a long history with the same family the Grimaldi who are at the head of the principality , it is it is the most aged dynasty reigning in Europa. Th other are no more reigning as the Habsbourg .or Bourbons

Here is thr link of the family of Monaco and the power of the prince sovereign




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Monaco
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  #194  
Old 12-06-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
True....it matters not how royal the Grimaldi's are - actually they are of nobility (noble, not royal, prince/sses) - they are ranked as 2nd (after another principality, Liechtenstein) as the wealthiest European "royal" families. I think the Netherlands royal family ranks 3rd (actually HRH P Beatrix herself) because of their ownership in Royal Dutch Shell. QEII ranks fourth in the list. So I doubt P Albert and family give two hoots that others do not not consider their family "royal" - they aren't. But they are worth over two billion US dollars, and QEII doesn't even come close to that in wealth. Just as someone made himself The Prince of Monaco long ago, someone long ago also made himself The King of England, and every royal/noble family had someone long ago who made himself a King, Queen, prince, princess, Duke, Earl, etc.
Being royal is not expressed in wealth. Princess Margarita of Romania and her sisters have very, very darkblue blood in their veins but are "poor". King Felipe of Spain has very, very darkblue blood in his veins but is "poor". The usual way to "categorize" royals is by their ancestry.

For an example: Jean-Christophe Bonaparte, Prince Napoléon and his sister Madame Eric Quérénet-Onfroy de Bréville née Caroline Bonaparte, Princesse Napoléon (picture), have a profit from their prestigious mother, a Princesse de Bourbon des Deux-Siciles. Via their mother they came back in full royal spotlights and are related to the Bourbons in France, the Borbóns in Spain and the Borbones in Italy. Via their mother the Bonapartes are welcome at all these royal houses. Was their mother not a Princesse de Bourbon but just the girl-next-door, then the whole standing of Jean-Christophe would have been lower. No matter how much money they have or do not have.
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  #195  
Old 12-06-2015, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Being royal is not expressed in wealth. Princess Margarita of Romania and her sisters have very, very darkblue blood in their veins but are "poor". King Felipe of Spain has very, very darkblue blood in his veins but is "poor". The usual way to "categorize" royals is by their ancestry.

For an example: Jean-Christophe Bonaparte, Prince Napoléon and his sister Madame Eric Quérénet-Onfroy de Bréville née Caroline Bonaparte, Princesse Napoléon (picture), have a profit from their prestigious mother, a Princesse de Bourbon des Deux-Siciles. Via their mother they came back in full royal spotlights and are related to the Bourbons in France, the Borbóns in Spain and the Borbones in Italy. Via their mother the Bonapartes are welcome at all these royal houses. Was their mother not a Princesse de Bourbon but just the girl-next-door, then the whole standing of Jean-Christophe would have been lower. No matter how much money they have or do not have.
By missing my point, you actually backed it up. The Grimaldi's are titled, and worth a couple of billion US dollars. They live very "comfortable" lives and I am sure it matters not to any of them how "royal" people believe them to be. Technically, they are not royalty (=HRH), they are nobility (=HSH). Because their ancestry is not up to par with royal houses, their blood is considered less "blue." So, if were a noble princess (and had hardly any blue-blood ancestors) and I am worth a billion dollars more than you, a king (with prestigious blue-blood ancestry), I would be laughing all the way to the bank as I drive away from my 500-room pink palace in one of my 27 $750,000+ automobiles. BTW, I know it is only an expression to say royals have blue blood, but their blood is no different than mine or yours - genetically they are only human beings, just as is every person in the world. If QEII stood before me, I would not curtsey to her or any other king, prince/princess, etc., because they are only another person - nothing more.
So being royal is not expressed in wealth; wealth - with or without a royal/noble title - makes life a lot more sweeter than being the "very, very dark blue-blood" poor, broke-@$$ (but so good-looking) King of Spain.:sly:
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  #196  
Old 12-07-2015, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
Grimaldi are royal no need to have royal relatives to be royal , Grimaldi family is a reigning family on the principauty of Monaco since 700 years, Monaco is a principauty and the Grimaldi is a family who is reigning , no matter it is a tiny principauty.


The hannover family is no more reigning , the sons of EA of Hnover sold their résidences and when they come in Hanover, they are Misters Hanover, Germany is a republic, they have prestigious relativs and a good pedigree but they are no more reigning, Plbert II is the prince Sovereign of Monavo governing and reigning on Monaco, when he is also the chief of state of Monaco whar are no more the Habsbourg, the Hanover, the Romanov or the family of Greece.


Prince Albert and Prince Hans Adam of Liechenstein are reigning and governing, the other Kings and Queens are only reigning nothing other. Monaco has a long history with the same family the Grimaldi who are at the head of the principality , it is it is the most aged dynasty reigning in Europa. Th other are no more reigning as the Habsbourg .or Bourbons
IDK for sure, but read that HSH Prince Albert II of Monaco owns all of the casinos in Monaco and reaps most of the profits from casino revenue. Also read that HSH Prince Hans Adam actually "owns" all of the land within the boundaries of his (literally) country of Liechtenstein. This why a recent vote in that country actually gave HA more power. His subjects did not want to disgruntle the powers that be (or in this case, the power that is).
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  #197  
Old 12-07-2015, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
True....it matters not how royal the Grimaldi's are - actually they are of nobility (noble, not royal, prince/sses) - they are ranked as 2nd (after another principality, Liechtenstein) as the wealthiest European "royal" families. I think the Netherlands royal family ranks 3rd (actually HRH P Beatrix herself) because of their ownership in Royal Dutch Shell. QEII ranks fourth in the list. So I doubt P Albert and family give two hoots that others do not not consider their family "royal" - they aren't. But they are worth over two billion US dollars, and QEII doesn't even come close to that in wealth. Just as someone made himself The Prince of Monaco long ago, someone long ago also made himself The King of England, and every royal/noble family had someone long ago who made himself a King, Queen, prince, princess, Duke, Earl, etc.
Being a Serene Highness instead of a Royal Highness doesn't make the Grimaldi's any less royal than any other royal family. Prince Albert II is a reigning monarch. That's what makes him royal.

Serene Highness, by the way isn't purely a title of nobility. More typically it denotes either a smaller realms or cadet branches of a royal family. Which describes Monaco fairly well - it's a small realm, although the ruler of Monaco holds much more power than other most other European monarchs.

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Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
Prince Albert and Prince Hans Adam of Liechenstein are reigning and governing, the other Kings and Queens are only reigning nothing other. Monaco has a long history with the same family the Grimaldi who are at the head of the principality , it is it is the most aged dynasty reigning in Europa. Th other are no more reigning as the Habsbourg .or Bourbons
That's... not accurate. Monaco has a long history with the Grimaldis, yes, but it's not the oldest dynasty in Europe. The Grimaldis have ruled in Monaco since 1297, but for the first 100 years or so it wasn't exactly an undisputed rule, and in 1642 the Grimaldis became vassals of the French. Then in 1793 Monaco was captured by the French, and held for about 20 years. Which means that while the Grimaldi rule of Monaco began about 700 years ago it hasn't been uninturrupted. Furthermore, there is an illusion of the same dynasty having ruled for all that time that isn't entirely accurate. There are several points in Monaco's history when a daughter inherited the throne, married a man who took the Grimaldi name, then abdicated in favour of her husband.

As for other European realms, though... As heirs of William the Conqueror, Elizabeth II's family has ruled England since 1066 - 200 years longer than the Grimaldis have been in Monaco - with one interruption during the English Civil War. As the heirs of Kenneth MacAlpin they've ruled Scotland since 843, with a few interruptions. As the heirs of Gorm the Old, the family of Margrethe II has ruled Denmark since 940. Felipe VI's ancestors have been ruling parts of Spain since 905. Monaco's certainly not got them beat.
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  #198  
Old 12-08-2015, 12:55 AM
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Being a Serene Highness instead of a Royal Highness doesn't make the Grimaldi's any less royal than any other royal family. Prince Albert II is a reigning monarch. That's what makes him royal.

Serene Highness, by the way isn't purely a title of nobility. More typically it denotes either a smaller realms or cadet branches of a royal family. Which describes Monaco fairly well - it's a small realm, although the ruler of Monaco holds much more power than other most other European monarchs.

We obviously have a different reference method for defining "royalty." There are royal princes, and their are noble princes; being born a prince and later becoming a reigning prince does not make you royalty by the definition that I have read, but it does by your definition. Yes, Albert II is the absolute monarch of Monaco and holds more power than ALL European monarchs, except for Hans Adam of Liechenstein (also a noble prince) who basically owns the land upon which his subjects live. Anyway, if you want P Albert II to be considered royalty, then so be it. No matter how you interpret his title, he is still a reigning monarch, filthy rich, lives in a huge pink palace, has a multitude of many other attributes that most associate with "royalty." 👑💶😎😔
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  #199  
Old 12-08-2015, 01:30 AM
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Doesn't "royal" by definition quite simply mean something like "being a king/queen or closely related to one"?

Imo it often gets mixed up with the term "monarch" and that in the case of P.Albert of Monaco he *is* a monarch, but he isn't a royal?
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  #200  
Old 12-08-2015, 01:56 AM
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From Wikipedia:
- His/Her Royal Highness (abbreviation HRH, oral address Your Royal Highness) – other members of a Royal House not including the Head of the House normally the Monarch themselves, reigning Grand Duke, members of some grand Ducal Houses, some Princes consort. For example, sons and daughters of a British Sovereign e.g. HRH The Prince of Wales, HRH The Princess Royal, HRH The Duke of York and HRH The Earl of Wessex. And the current Prince Consort in all but name, HRH Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh; consort to HM The Queen.

-His/Her Grand Ducal Highness (abbreviation HGDH, oral address Your Grand Ducal Highness) – junior members of some grand Ducal Houses.

-His/Her Highness (abbreviation HH, oral address, Your Highness) – reigning Dukes and members of reigning Ducal Houses, members of some grand Ducal Houses, junior members of some Royal Houses, Emirs and Sheikhs, also Princes/Princesses of nobility in several European countries, not belonging to a Royal House. For example, HH The Emir of Kuwait.

-His/Her Ducal Serene Highness (abbreviation HDSH, oral address, Your Ducal Serene Highness – members of some Ducal houses. For example, the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

-His/Her Serene Highness (abbreviation HSH, oral address Your Serene Highness) – sovereign or mediatized Fürst ("Prince") and his family – this is a mistranslation from German Durchlaucht, the correct form should be His/Her Serenity. For example, Grace Kelly on her marriage to the Sovereign Prince of Monaco became HSH The Princess Grace of Monaco or The Princess of Monaco. Some princely families in Imperial Russia also enjoyed this style.
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