When mods delete or move a post and fail to notify/explain

[CasiraghiTrio]

I am posting this complaint with the cooperation of another member, for we both feel that it's high time for TRF to address this problem. In the past, I always appreciated being notified of deletions/moving of my posts; as the reasons were explained most satisfactorily and rationally. However, for the last several months, there seems to be an increase of moderators deleting and /or moving posts without sending a courtesy notification to explain their reasons, and this most often happens in the forums relating to Monaco and the Middle Eastern royalties. Will someone do me the courtesy of explaining why this happens? Another member and myself are wondering if it's become useless to bother posting on TRF, because it takes time to post thoughtful posts, and it's frustrating to have the work deleted and not have a courtesy explanation. Furthermore, it makes us want to only post mundane things, which don't require time or thought, because anything else may prove a waste of time. If it continues, and I don't mean it as a threat, but I am serious, in feeling that TRF might find itself with one or two less members.

[Elspeth]

Sorry to hear about this, Ashley. Generally speaking, if a moderator is doing a major rearrangement of threads or a cleanup after a long off-topic digression or fight or something, which involves moving or deleting many posts, the usual procedure is to post a message in the thread rather than PM all the people involved. Also, if a moderator is cleaning up empty posts (of the "she's so cute," "thanks for pics," and "I agree" variety), PMs aren't sent because the members should know by now what happens to empty posts. PMs tend to be reserved for small-scale moves and deletions or for warnings about rules infractions.

But one way or the other, people should be made aware of why their posts were moved or deleted, whether by PM or by a moderator explanation in the thread.

Could you PM me with some more details, and I'll see what's going on? I will just say that we've been very short-handed moderator-wise in a few forums over the last couple of weeks, which we're trying to rectify at the moment, and it's possible that moderators are feeling rushed and forgetting to notify posters of what they're doing. Not that that's any excuse because they should still be doing it, but it may at least be an explanation.

[COUNTESS]

I must admit that sometimes I feel the same way. The most annoying is that similar posts are left for days and then, if I go to answer something, it is zipped away with no explanation. I stopped posting on the Middle East sites, as you cannot say anything that is construed to be negative, which isn't a discussion at all. I don't know about Monaco. That is also why I had hoped where we could have an open political forum, but that seems to be dropped by the wayside and "isn't her hat nice" is still the discussion of the day.

[BeatrixFan]

My posts often disappear. But then I always expect them too! lol. Some of them I wonder about though because they dont break the rules per se.

[Mandy]

I'll answer this question if I may. Recently in The Prince Albert forum, warnings have been overlooked in just about every threads. Therefore, in my last warnings, I asked members to post in the right thread topics and back up their opinions with facts or their posts would be deleted. Since some members didn't see fit to follow the rules especially since most are seasoned members who should know better and some have been abusing the rules despite previous warnings, I didn't see the sense of sending PMs that would fall on deaf ears once more. I apologize to the one member who quoted a deleted post and which I had to delete for consistency. CasiraghiTrio and COUNTESS you were not part of this last round of delete.

Whenever I move a group of posts from one thread to another, I always place a message in the thread so members are aware of the move. However, if it is a single post, I will PM the member involved.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

I must admit that sometimes I feel the same way. The most annoying is that similar posts are left for days and then, if I go to answer something, it is zipped away with no explanation.

As I said above, for deletions of small numbers of posts or deletions due to rules violations, we PM the poster. Obviously that means that other members won't be made aware of why someone else's post has been removed, but on the whole we prefer not to make a public issue of rules violations by individual posters unless there's a major outbreak of them.

I stopped posting on the Middle East sites, as you cannot say anything that is construed to be negative, which isn't a discussion at all. I don't know about Monaco.

Please PM me with some details of the threads you mean. I don't spend much time in the Middle Eastern forums. However, I have spent some time in the Monaco forum, and I can tell you from experience there that several posters have complained that we don't allow criticism or anything negative, and we've been able to point out post after post full of criticism; usually there's some convoluted reason why it doesn't count (often having to do with the timing of the post, whatever that has to do with anything), or there's no response at all. The usual complaint, when you get right down to it, is "we can't post no-holds-barred venom, bashing, and insult"; apparently it isn't enough to say that a particular royal doesn't look good in a particular dress or has said something inappropriate in a speech, but people feel they need to be able to say that someone is a butt-ugly disaster or a retarded moron. If you want to post that sort of thing, there are other forums. We've received enough threats of lawsuits already as it is - quite apart from which, it ought to be possible for people to carry on a civil discussion even while criticising someone. It's very easy for these threads to turn into a competition to see who can manage the most egregious insults, and we aren't remotely interested in that sort of thing.

That is also why I had hoped where we could have an open political forum, but that seems to be dropped by the wayside and "isn't her hat nice" is still the discussion of the day.

Just to clarify, which I thought I'd done in the other thread but apparently not: political discussions, as long as they're relevant to royals, are perfectly welcome. We just aren't going to let threads degenerate into off-topic politics. Experience has shown that such threads usually turn into really unpleasant war zones - hence the prohibition of political and religious topics in Members' Corner. If you really think "isn't her hat nice" is the only thing to be found in the British forum, for instance, you're managing to miss a lot of threads.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

My posts often disappear. But then I always expect them too! lol. Some of them I wonder about though because they dont break the rules per se.

Yeah, Sam, we just delete your posts in stealth mode to make you feel paranoid. Is it working?

[BeatrixFan]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Yeah, Sam, we just delete your posts in stealth mode to make you feel paranoid. Is it working?

Yes. No, I know my posts disappear when I overstep the mark. Which I do alot. So I should count my blessings that I'm not banned and shut up.

[Thomas Parkman]

Just as I had hoped. I am not alone in the merciless persecutions and whacking on the bleeding knuckles that the Moderators administer with riotous abandon. The good thing about all of this with my totally insane garbage is that since there is so much violation of the rules-whatever that means-the poor long suffering moderators are totally overwhelmed and I can slip something by, or try to. I can even give the long suffering Warren a hard time, and sometimes get away with it. But then when I least expect it SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED appears and it is all over. There is the Jehovaic AHEM, akin to the great I AM of the Old Testament and then the deadly "post deleted" followed by the deadlier but polite explanation of what a miserable sinner and loathesome worm unworthy of the time of day, much less this compassionate and all knowing attention I really and truly am. I am devastated, traumatized, appalled or infuriated and go off whimpering to hide under my bed and OD on my drug of choice, chocolate. Lots of chocolate. Ice cream, hot, dark, what have you. It is all so good, and I feel so much better. Sniff.

Life is hard. It is just one long trail of endless humiliations. Cheers.

[Elspeth]

Honestly, at this rate I shall have to change my usertitle to She Who Must Be Obeyed; it's beginning to catch on around the place. Thank you so much, Thomas.

Some people are so ungrateful. Here we are, working hard to give them an excuse to OD on chocolate, and all they can do is complain.

Have a nice cup of tea, Thomas, and you'll feel better.

[mrsbugman]

Humera, I believe is her name, always deleates my questions. So finally I quit asking questions. But my thought is if I have a question I bet someone else has the same question. I don't imagine I'm that unique!

[Elspeth]

I've just checked your posts, and I'm only seeing a couple of cases where things were deleted.

Last month you asked a general question about Queen Noor in the current-events thread; Humera deleted it because it was off topic in that particular thread and sent you a message to explain why it had been deleted and where to find another thread which addressed the issue you were asking about. If you didn't receive that message, I'll be glad to send it again because we have a copy stored.

Late last year you had a thread deleted because you'd started a thread on a topic where we already had several threads. The moderator (Avalon) who closed the thread left an explanation in the thread along with links to other threads about Queen Noor.

Questions are always welcome, but we do ask that people check that the question hasn't already been asked and answered before they post, because we'd prefer that people not have to take the time to answer the same questions several times.

Does that answer your question? I honestly can't see more than a couple of deleted posts in your list of posts.

[Thomas Parkman]

Ah yes, tea. I forget to explain. That is the other drug of choice. I remember going to Halifax Canada a few years ago in February. It was fabulous. They had snow and ice galore piled up to the sky and everywhere these lovely people had hot soup, hot tea with cream and sugar and chocolate. And Canada is a monarchy??? What more could one want.

As for the moderators, well I cannot imagine anyone wanting to be on the lookout for my garbage 24/7 but there they are. Poor things. At least they give me excuses to go and indulge in my drug habits. Or should I say, go under, the bed that is. Cheers.

[mrsbugman]

While I don't appreciate being singled out and critized where everyone who reads this thread can see. I understand the need for argumenative threads to be deleated. It is sad that questions are deleated, and pages and pages of threads are suggested to be read, instead of someone just answering one question. I do enjoy reading this forum, and I have learned many interesting things. It is very frustrating to ask a question, and then not only not get an answer. But have the question deleated, and then being told to read numerous pages, most of which don't pertain to my question.

[Elspeth]

Well, we've been getting feedback from some of the people answering the questions that they don't appreciate having to answer the same thing over and over because a new poster doesn't research the threads before asking the same question that's already been asked and answered a few times already. Part of the problem is that the search engine on vbulletin boards isn't great so you can sometimes miss a thread, but I know a lot of newcomers don't even try to search. In a few forums they're preparing sets of FAQs to try and avoid having to keep answering the same questions, but I don't think they've done that in the Jordan forum yet.

[Empress]

Originally Posted by Thomas Parkman

Just as I had hoped. I am not alone in the merciless persecutions and whacking on the bleeding knuckles that the Moderators administer with riotous abandon. The good thing about all of this with my totally insane garbage is that since there is so much violation of the rules-whatever that means-the poor long suffering moderators are totally overwhelmed and I can slip something by, or try to. I can even give the long suffering Warren a hard time, and sometimes get away with it. But then when I least expect it SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED appears and it is all over. There is the Jehovaic AHEM, akin to the great I AM of the Old Testament and then the deadly "post deleted" followed by the deadlier but polite explanation of what a miserable sinner and loathesome worm unworthy of the time of day, much less this compassionate and all knowing attention I really and truly am. I am devastated, traumatized, appalled or infuriated and go off whimpering to hide under my bed and OD on my drug of choice, chocolate. Lots of chocolate. Ice cream, hot, dark, what have you. It is all so good, and I feel so much better. Sniff.

Life is hard. It is just one long trail of endless humiliations. Cheers.

Ahhh Thomas, you are such an amusing read. And we really do like your posts, we just sometimes have to adjust them!

Originally Posted by mrsbugman

While I don't appreciate being singled out and critized where everyone who reads this thread can see. I understand the need for argumenative threads to be deleated. It is sad that questions are deleated, and pages and pages of threads are suggested to be read, instead of someone just answering one question. I do enjoy reading this forum, and I have learned many interesting things. It is very frustrating to ask a question, and then not only not get an answer. But have the question deleated, and then being told to read numerous pages, most of which don't pertain to my question.

As far as I can see, no one singled you out. You asked a question, and Elspeth took the time to thoroughly research the subject before answering. Please bear in mind that we appreciate all of the feedback that we get, and assume that if a subject is brought up in an open thread, that we are perfectly free to answer in that same thread. IF this is not the case, then please feel free to take up any matter via PM.

Please also remember that there are only a few of us versus all of you, and at times we are stretched quite thin, and need to deal with situations as quickly and proactively as we can. It also makes it even more difficult for future members to search and find something if there are 30 threads on the same subject because 30 members before them could not be bothered to look for the answer to a question before starting a new thread, so I am sure that you can see what a vicious circle that could become. If you or anyone else is having any trouble finding a particular subject using the search function, please feel free to contact a member of the moderating team so that we can help.

[mrsbugman]

I give up! It is a no win situation.

[ysbel]

mrsbugman,

What Elspeth and Empress are trying to tell you politely is that if you don't want to be singled out in the open threads, its best if you don't single out a moderator by name who has been deleting your posts. You complained about a specific moderator Humera on the open forum and moderators don't like being singled out either.

It does hurt a moderator's ability to do her job in the forums if a member calls her by name as one who is unfairly deleting posts. If the complaint doesn't get researched and the results published on the open forums in the thread where the moderators name was mentioned, that can hurt a moderator's reputation in her forums.

You made the question, fair enough, but then since you named a moderator, the response to your question and the details had to be made in the same public thread in order to protect Humera's reputation as a moderator with the general public.

Now the problem that you mentioned, the difficulty of searching for items in a forum, we are well aware of and unfortunately there is nothing we can do at the moment other than what we're doing. We get so many newcomers that all have the same questions that we're trying to develop FAQs in the forums to make the answers easier to find. But once you have the answer to the question and you want to talk about something else, it is annoying to see the same question pop up in different threads and in new threads all at the same time. If we didn't delete these posts and threads we'd get complaints from our more established members why we were letting the same basic questions take over the forum again, again and again.

We're trying to accommodate both the newcomers and the members who have been around awhile and don't want to repeat the same old things but its not easy so please be a little patient and as Empress said, we know this is a problem so if you pm a moderator we can help you find the answer to your question more quickly if its on the forum. Now if you find a forum where you think the answers to some basic questions are really hard to find, you can offer to help the moderating team in that forum by finding links for posts that have the answers to some more commonly asked questions in the forums and sending them to the mod team so that they can put together an FAQ thread. The moderating teams are quite stretched as it is so I'm sure any mod team would appreciate any member offering to help us with a bit of legwork to find the answers to all these basic questions that a forum might have. But you indicated that you didn't have time to search for one answer to a question so I don't know whether you'd have time to search for the answers to all the questions that would make up an FAQ. Quite frankly, its a time-consuming job for anybody which is why we don't have as many FAQ threads in the forums as we'd like.

That's all I can tell you for now.

[Thomas Parkman]

Good heavens, good people. There is not such thing as a no win situation here. This is a place where thousands of people from all over the world share an interest in royalty and their knowledge and insights as well. How delightful. This is truly wonderful, don't you think? Unfortunately when you have that many people, and very different people at that, there are always going to be confusions and misunderstandings sometimes.

I myself, with my Lyme disease, go into royal rages all the time. I would have made an unforgettable Russian Tsar. I would still have probably been murdered in about six months, so maybe it is a good idea that I am not an RT. The apartment where I used to live was a slum, but it had carpeted floors. I used to keep one section with a line drawn down it with the caption "chew along dotted line". When enraged I would gnaw away with abandon. I had to move, not because the mold in the apartment was wrecking the remnants of my health, which it was, b