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  #41  
Old 08-02-2007, 10:30 AM
Courtier
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Location: Arlington, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII View Post
.

But it seems some people on this boards don’t want to hear that side of the opinion pool, where people strongly disapprove of Charlene. They only want to hear those who think because she is blonde, blue eyed and pretty that she is the perfect princess. Then the Rose Ball thread comes back with someone saying we should let her grow into her role as Princess.. Blah blah blah
I just stopped posting at the Monaco thread. When people try to control people’s opinions and the right to descent, I am very American btw, that is when I stop posting, because then it’s a waste of time.


Hopefully everyone will be happily posting again!

I was looking for an answer to some question I had and happened onto this thread. Fascinating !

I was surprised to see that I am quoted (without a reference to me, and as far as I know, somebody else could have said the same thing), in a statement I made about Charlene being possibly capable of growing into her role as a princess if that comes to be. It is the second time I have seen that statement used as either an example of one of these annoying gushers or as someone who really doesn't "get it" about Charlene.

Excuse me ? Why is that statement so annoying ? Other young women have grown into their roles and have shown the ability to change and learn : the Duchess of York comes to mind, as well as Princess Stephanie. Although for all I know opinion-makers may not think highly of them either. It takes some people longer than others to mature and understand their role. Why is it such a crime against common sense to express the wish that another young woman might also learn ?

The issue for me by the way is not about Charlene or who Albert decides to marry or decides not to marry. As a matter of fact, I am totally indifferent to Charlene, one way or another. I guess, as my user name says, although it was chosen by my children somewhat in derision, "I love royals", I actually like people and like to think the best of them until proven otherwise. Sure, Charlene has made mistakes, sure she doesn't seem an intellectual or for that matter, emotional luminary. So what ? Is 30 that old that it's over for her ? tbhrc has that signature quote by Princess Caroline about optimism which ends, if I remember correctly "or there would be a cup". Well, it's an ironic statement, but Charlene could be the cup and might fill up nicely. (Please, this is not a Freudian way of saying she just needs to lie down and fill up with babies. I have to add this since the subject of possible future pregnancies by Charlene seems a hot button issue too.)

For those who feel that people like me take away from the wide range of responses possible in the Charlene-Albert thread, be relieved. You have the floor to yourselves, at least, you have the floor without me. I no longer read , let alone write in that thread (which I have renamed in my mind as the Albert-Charlene bashing thread.) I don't feel it is my role in these forums to be obsessive about whom Albert should or should not marry, nor is it my role to indoctrinate people into seeing someone the way I see them, mostly through rehashing the same arguments over and over again.

Nor do I feel like having my statements distorted in a semi-subtle way. If you look at your paragraph, it would seem that those who want to give Charlene a chance (such an inept statement that it is followed by "blah, blah, blah," really nice and encouraging to other opinions, right ?) do so because she is blond and blue-eyed. Why the non-sequitur ? As it is , (and as a person of varied ethnic heritage who is also getting annoyed at the mid-western American criticism ) I would have made the same statement about Nicole Coste or Jazmine's mother. Speaking about assumptions, the writer of that post is making a lot of subtle and not so subtle assumptions, which, if not pointed out, could really translate into something nasty. It would seem to read that nitwits like me, with their limited imagination and wide prejudices, can only picture another blue-eyed, blond woman to take the place of Princess Grace. Give other members a break and let them speak for themselves without putting words in their mouths. I never said anything about Charlene being adequate because she was blonde. I find that twisting another member's words by surrounding it with another context foreign to the original is almost a kind of slandering and I would encourage you to qualify your statements so we know who wrote what and how.

Somone offered some solid suggestions, such as having Princess Caroline guide Charlene (and IMO, or for that matter, anybody else who might become the next Princess of Monaco), through her steps.

Personally, I don't think that wedding is going to take place, but I wish the next person, if there is one, all the best, and I hope, lots of support.

I am, by the way, disappointed that it didn't work out with Kate Middleton, another young woman I liked. And when I don't like someone or the turn of events in a royal family as much, (Chelsea with Harry, Andrea with Caroline), I keep quiet about it, after maybe one or two posts expressing my dismay.
I think that especially if we are not citizens of a country, we should not feel it is our responsibility to warn people about royals or expect that our criticisms will change the fate of that country. So I'd say "Chill" and enjoy the forums for what they are, a friendly place to exchange observations and opinions, not a place to lecture royals and members about how things should be done in a country. JMO.

Cheers
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  #42  
Old 08-03-2007, 10:37 PM
acdc1's Avatar
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I don't think they're deleting the negative comments, just the one's that are mean or off topic. You go in there and see negative comments everywhere. Like, if Charlene was wearing a dress that is not very flattering, I could post:
"I don't like her dress very much. It doesn't fit her well, the color isn't right for her skin tone, etc." That's ok (I think?). But if I said, "Oh my God I hate that dress on her. Charlene is a stupid ugly cow and she never looks good in anything she attempts to put on her revolting frame. I hate her, and I hate Albert for dating her!" or something like that, it would probably be a different story.

You can probably go a little farther than my first comment without getting in a lot of trouble, mine was a very mild negative example.
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  #43  
Old 08-04-2007, 12:36 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
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I'm saying now what I said last year in this thread - criticism and negative opinions of royals and their associates are just as welcome as positive comments because this is a discussion board, not a fan site. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion if all sides can't be represented.

However, please note the word "reasonable." We require that criticism be worded in such a way that it isn't insulting, vicious, loaded with negative innuendo and speculation, or libellous. We also require that our posters treat each other with respect and consideration, and don't resort to dismissive put-downs and especially to attempts to intimidate others into leaving the discussion. It isn't just in the Monaco forum where posters can expect to hear from the moderators if they start the "you don't live there/you don't pay taxes there/you aren't old enough to remember/you haven't followed the royals for long enough/you don't know what you're talking about and so why don't you just go away because you aren't welcome here" tactic. We aren't interested in having forums taken over by cliques who try to bully and intimidate other posters into leaving the conversations because they dare to express a contrary opinion. Expressing contrary opinions is the essence of a rounded discussion. However, people on all sides of the more contentious topics also need to be tolerant. This is a large forum with an international membership, many of whom aren't native English speakers. The knowledge level ranges from mild interest to professional academic knowledge and even to outright obsession, and people need to accommodate other people's strengths and weaknesses at least to some extent. The less knowledgeable members will benefit more if the more knowledgeable ones take the trouble to point out resources both within TRF and elsewhere than if they just say "go and do some research and don't come back till you're worthy of my attention" or even "go away, you're too ignorant and stupid for me to bother with you." This is a community, and people should be helping each other, not intimidating them into leaving because they don't feel the same way about one or other of the royals.

As acdc1 pointed out, you only have to read the threads to see that we aren't removing negative comments. Of course we're removing speculation about steroid taking and drug use and other baseless accusations of criminal behaviour on account of we aren't keen on getting sued, and we're removing comments that are outright insulting and full of vicious gossip. We also delete, edit, or move posts that are taking threads off topic in attempts to continue the propaganda against a particular royal. There's a vast grey area between no-holds-barred bitching and unconditional praise, and iloveroyals's statement about Charlene is a good example. It's really sad when a comment like "I don't think that dress looks good on her" is taken to be praise because it isn't saying "she looks like a hooker."

Just in case anyone's wondering, TRF isn't owned or controlled by the Grimaldis, Prince Charles, the Duchess of Cornwall, or the Danish royal family (just some of the accusations we've received over the last year or so). The moderators aren't sytematically removing posts which are unflattering to Charlene, Camilla, Mary, or anyone else, as even the most cursory glance at the threads should confirm. We're simply expecting people to behave like considerate, reasonable adults. For anyone who believes that's too much to ask, there are other forums out there.
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  #44  
Old 08-04-2007, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
We aren't interested in having forums taken over by cliques who try to bully and intimidate other posters into leaving the conversations because they dare to express a contrary opinion. Expressing contrary opinions is the essence of a rounded discussion.
I love this part of your post. This should be the TRF motto.
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:27 PM
Aristocracy
 
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I'd like to say something here if the mods haven't closed the conversation. Following that last group of exchanges there seems to be some impression of some kind of hierachy about knowing the facts or being around. There is a lot of stuff that's rude, unethical in certain forums. A certain group who share an agreement of disdain for Charlene, or maybe life in general and project it.

Let it be know that because someone is not doing petty undercutting catty critiques about Charlene's person, plans or behavior doesn't mean they approve or disapprove. But have a right to post and say whatever they like without being analyzed or taken to task.

In the final analysis, there are different motives for posting. There is a lot of really low level hostility that escapes the mods I think. I think all of us like to express ourselves and share some commanility but please who is inside these subjects heads. Being anonymous doesn't remove some of responsibility to remain a little ethical to fellow human beings.

And finally, I do like this boards attempt at some elegance and good taste and reservation

I
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  #46  
Old 09-28-2007, 10:06 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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I hope you don't mind that your post has been moved over here, but the other thread was already somewhat off topic and it's not really fair to the people wanting to discuss the thread topic if the thread is taken over by a discussion of TRF rules and policies.

I'm glad you feel that people should be able to express opinions on all sides of the issues without feeling intimidated, because that's what we're trying to do here.

It isn't so much that the background hostility escapes the mods, it's that we know some of our members don't care for some of the royals, and we're trying to let them express their dislike without jumping all over them for it - we're sort of trying to strike a balance where people can be positive about a controversial royal without being shouted down by the detractors but other people can also feel able to express negative opinions. It's sometimes hard to keep that balance, but we're doing our best.
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