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  #21  
Old 09-06-2006, 05:29 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Zoni1189- Whoever. I just made a post that was deleted. I attempted to pm for a reason since it was quite varied--some specifics please. I shall be standing by for an explanation .Thank you.
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  #22  
Old 09-06-2006, 05:45 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
A lot of things that have been said so far in criticism and in defense of the forum are true. Personally I have limited my posts here due to the fact that to me the gushers are annoying. But I consider this my personal problem.
Personally I don't think mindless gushers add value to a thread, but gushing isn't against the rules; on the whole it tends to be more harmless than aggression, even if it has a lot of irritant value.

Quote:
Personally I like to find out more about the people and judge them by their actions and their words, if they are available. That is how I came to not approve of Charlene. I admit that my comments where not always nice, but I didn't not resolve to name calling. I believe I mostly tried to ridicule. If I crossed a line, I don't mind my post being deleted, though I don't think that many of mine were deleted for that reason.
Why do you think they were deleted?

Quote:
But what I found really curious that apparently I was stapled by some as a Charlene critic and thus would not be able to write anything positive or in her defense. When someone criticised her for being without style because she travelled with unmatching lagguage, I posted that people should cut her some slack. When criticism becomes as unfounded and superficial as the gushing, then it is just as annoying, even though you might be considered by some to belong to the same "camp". Strangely enough I was the one being attacked by a moderator. Go figure.
If you think you're being unjustly attacked by a moderator, please contact one of the administrators, with as much factual detail as possible. It's much easier to address issues when we have more rather than less information in hand.

Quote:
A lot of people criticise there as well, but somehow it sort of regulates itself and moderators are fairly discrete. There is the occasional remark to get back on topic or post in another thread, but that is roughly it. The moderators do post their opinions as well, but I haven't got the impression that I am being stereotyped when they respond to my posts.
One of the previous posters here was saying that she found that sort of environment to be hostile. If a group of people who generally dislike someone band together and are mostly left to police themselves, people with different opinions, unless they're very assertive, won't find the environment tolerable. Which is fine for the people in the little group, but we're trying to make the threads acceptable to people of more than one opinion, which means not letting people get carried away by their sarcastic wit, their dislike, or their frustration, regardless of how personally satisfying it is to them.

Certainly people need to find an environment where they feel comfortable, and if this environment doesn't do that for you, then it's nice that you've found one that does. However, we aren't going to turn our threads over to the posters to police, because we don't like the sorts of threads that are the result.

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Another interesting point I have noticed, when last year I posted my impressions from the enthronement etc, people enjoyed the posts and thought it was great to have someone in the midsts of things, but when I said what I overheard people say on the streets in Monaco, I was deleted and asked not to post things like that. But if a tabloids quote a source to the palace or people in Monaco love Charlene and want to see them marry, that is ok. I ask myself where are the sources there? How come when I say that this is not at all general opinion and which is the source ( I think that was the same source that said there woud be a marriage announcement in August) of the tabloids (actually I do not think that source exists), I am not allowed to say that. A lot of people seem to take the tabloids at face value, why shouldn't I be allowed to tell them what it is really like in Monaco? Surely there are people in Monaco who think the Grimaldis are great and can not do wrong, but there are also a lot of critics and my democratic believe is that they should be heard as well. They have been silenced for a long time (as the problem with the fired journalist revealed), now slowly people start behaving normal and saying their opinion in public (even though still very carefully). Unfortunetely those opinions don't go with the image the tabloids like to set, so it is never reported in the media and everyone thinks that people are uncorking there bottles for an upcoming wedding.
OK - couple of issues here. First, it depends on how you're posting. I've seen posts of yours about how the people in the street are reacting to royal events and found them very interesting. However, if inductive reasoning start getting overused - "everyone in Monaco hates Charlene because I heard several people saying how trashy she was" - it's possible one of the moderators put the brakes on it for that reason. The other thing is that you might have just got caught in a backlash. We had some instances where a couple of posters were causing all sorts of mayhem on another of the forums here because they KNEW that Princess Whatever was a total waste of space because they'd talked to their mother/sister/second cousin/great-uncle's pet rabbit in that country and they'd said so, so it MUST be true, and nobody, repeat NOBODY, had better DARE come along and contradict me because I KNOW. Great Aunt Hilda's hairdresser's stepson's second wife's half brother SAID it, so you can SHUT UP and DROP DEAD because I KNOW and I'm NOT LISTENING TO ANYONE HERE BECAUSE YOU'RE A BUNCH OF STUPID IDIOTS! That situation took a surprisingly long time to sort out, and I think for a while a lot of the moderators were just getting spooked by people who were basing their opinions about things on stuff they were saying they'd been told or overheard. This rule is cramping a lot of people's style, but we're trying to figure out a happy medium between only talking about public information and between the sort of abuses that went on in that forum.

Quote:
Anyways, no one forces me to post here and when I don't feel welcome I just leave or limit my posts. At present I don't find the discussions very stimulating, so I don't feel the need of posting. I have nothing to say, because no matter what I write it will be taken the wrong way here and those who are interested in my honest opinion are posting elsewhere and that is where I communicate with them, because I feel free to communicate with them without having to watch every single word.
Fair enough. Whatever works best for you.
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  #23  
Old 09-06-2006, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss b
although i have never posted on the monaco forum, as a NEW member i have already experience deleted posts and warnings by moderators. mine occured when my posts discussed the recent marriage of prince alwaleed. two articles are presently on the web dealing with prince alwaleed's humanitarian dealings, but they mention his wife, princess ameera. i was told that was speculation, and when i responded on the thread and not be pm, i was dressed down. the problem is alot of this stuff is speculation. saudi marriages are RARELY announced in print. especially the fourth marriage. i had nothing negative to say in my post other than i noticed she was not given the distinction of HRH. so far, my experience is that this forum stiffles free speech and exchange of ideas. especially, if the ideas differ from the moderators. i question whether i will stay on this forum other than to look at the pics. this forum is becoming nothing more than a glossy magazine without substance.
MissB...while you have a legitimate question regarding the removal of your post...I am not sure if this thread is the proper forum to discuss your personal issue. It might get lost in the Monaco shuffle.

I see that a PM was sent to you and it requested that any concerns about the deletion should be addressed by the moderator of The Other Reigning Houses Forum (Humera) and/or any of the Administrators. To be honest, I am not familiar with the Saudi Royal Family and I would feel uncomfortable discussing the reasons on why your post was removed as I am not familiar with Saudi marriages. Particulary the secrecy that exists with fourth ones. Not trying to be smart...just making a statement.

Needless to say, I also disagree with the concept that free speech is being stifled at the Forums. I would also suggest, that you give it a little more time before making such a decision on whether or not you want to continue as a member. But of course, that is totally up to you.
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2006, 05:56 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss b
although i have never posted on the monaco forum, as a NEW member i have already experience deleted posts and warnings by moderators. mine occured when my posts discussed the recent marriage of prince alwaleed. two articles are presently on the web dealing with prince alwaleed's humanitarian dealings, but they mention his wife, princess ameera. i was told that was speculation, and when i responded on the thread and not be pm, i was dressed down. the problem is alot of this stuff is speculation. saudi marriages are RARELY announced in print. especially the fourth marriage. i had nothing negative to say in my post other than i noticed she was not given the distinction of HRH. so far, my experience is that this forum stiffles free speech and exchange of ideas. especially, if the ideas differ from the moderators. i question whether i will stay on this forum other than to look at the pics. this forum is becoming nothing more than a glossy magazine without substance.
I'll have a word with the moderator in question and get back to you. Another time, please feel free to contact an administrator and explain the problem if you think a moderator has done something incorrect.
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  #25  
Old 09-06-2006, 06:03 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neat2912
Zoni1189- Whoever. I just made a post that was deleted. I attempted to pm for a reason since it was quite varied--some specifics please. I shall be standing by for an explanation .Thank you.
You sure about that? I don't see any deleted posts in your profile for a couple of days, and that one was because the post was off-topic, as you said yourself.
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  #26  
Old 09-06-2006, 06:07 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Lady Elspeth, Zonki1169. Can/May I please have a PM explanation of my deletion before it gets lost in the "big important" issue ones? Thank you. I don't deserve the same courtesy the bb person got? (Sounding like a child but dead serious)
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  #27  
Old 09-06-2006, 06:16 PM
Aristocracy
 
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There you are Lady Elspeth. You are just "too much". Thank you. I just posted a long one on this complaint thread, but its ok.

And I'll just forget it - maybe I hit the outofspace button.but-- I'd like to agree with the mod who said she gets annoyed by posters who don't respond when challenged. It seems arrogant.

Also- I was commenting on how ,to me,its inappropriate for a mod to get into a long running exchange with a poster-seems it would render him/her too biased to officiate.

And I was questioning Zonki1169 to ask herself if she was being non-emotional and non-confrontational enough. Thank you Lady E.
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2006, 08:05 PM
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What an air! Seems like everyone has a reason to be unhappy.
What the Moderators (of all Forums) ask, is not adoring Royals and their girlfriends and everyone, they ask to show respect. Even if you criticize (which is perfectly ok to do, since this is an open Forum), please be respectful. Elspeth has shown in her posts here what a huge difference there is between the same sentences, written in different words.

Neat2912, I understand your wish to know what happened to your post. I suppose you must know that posts are normally deleted if they are off-topic, they contain offensive material or are against the rules (copyright, private account, etc). If you don't feel your post is guilty of any of this but it disappeared, pm the appropriate Moderator.

It draw my attention that between your first post and second post, complaining about the deleted post, less then 10 minutes have passed. Has it occurred to you that Elspeth was busy doing something else, or that she was trying to find out what happened to your post or just she got up to make herself a cup of tea? Maybe you could wait a little longer to get response? Elspeth is one of those, who basically keeps this forum running, her work is immense, so it's more then likely she was busy at the moment. Though I assure she is not a kind of person that leaves a message without response.
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2006, 09:03 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neat2912
Lady Elspeth, Zonki1169. Can/May I please have a PM explanation of my deletion before it gets lost in the "big important" issue ones? Thank you. I don't deserve the same courtesy the bb person got? (Sounding like a child but dead serious)
It's a bit hard to explain a deletion I can't see. Could we get some more details, please?

Please note, btw, that Zonk doesn't have moderator access here or in the Monaco forum, so I very much doubt she's the one you need to be talking to.
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2006, 09:52 PM
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I have to agree with Donna, Paca, Ghisline, and others who are frustrated at deleted posts

I have always enjoyed these forums and this is the first time I’ve ever encountered such a situation on these forums. I only post for a few weeks every few months when I get time off, so its kind of a fun outlet for me.

I started getting PMs from members who were very frustrated about the Albert/Charlene posts, that theirs were getting deleted who didn't promote Charlene and spoke against her. I was even invited to another board. Then it actually happened to a few of MY posts. One was due to photos and I left a message saying the post was deleted but I was trying to fix it. Then I emailed the moderator and asked why. The reply I received was technically understandable but rather unfriendly. It was a photo acknowledgement issue. But the second post that was deleted was for no reason in my opinion.

The fact is , it really appeared as though the only posts being allowed up were the ones who said, how great Charlene looks, how happy they were to see them together again, etc.. along those themes.

I am a person who happens to really like Kate Middleton, although I know she gets hammered by some people because she has graduated from college and is not working at the moment. I happened to think she did very honorable in school, she carries herself with a lot of class and acts very much like a future princess. On the other hand, I do not like Charlene Wittstock. Here behavior in public photos, her and her families constant blabbing to the press, hiring a PR for self serving purposes. Many attributed this to her lack of education and I agreed but said she should do something with her life even go back to school. But there were a lot of harsh things written about her so I backed off posting for awhile and see what she is made of as the situation unfolds.

Then After watching Prince Albert say on worldwide television , in a direct response to a question asked showing a photo of Charlene, that he had NO intentions on marrying now or in the distant future. Then he was with Heather, then the girl on the yacht, and she still came back for more. I then had to write in and say its humiliating that she has no self respect and no dignity to let a man publically humiliate her and come back again. (I am not one who agrees that she didn’t want a serious relationship with the Prince, after her quotes of being deeply in love, soul mates, and lovers.)

I further said, such behavior suggests that she is only in it for the lifestyle and the perks and she appears a gold digger. I would have had more respect for her if she would have left him and said come after me if you change your mind, maybe I will still be available. But she let herself be humiliated and came back. I would say the same thing to any girl whether her name be Charlene, Suzy, Annie, Janie, etc.. In fact I have daughters and would be livid if they let any man disrespect them like that, especially in public, then crawl back like a puppy dog taking their scraps. Come on mothers out there, wouldn’t you tell your daughters the same.

But it seems some people on this boards don’t want to hear that side of the opinion pool, where people strongly disapprove of Charlene. They only want to hear those who think because she is blonde, blue eyed and pretty that she is the perfect princess. Then the Rose Ball thread comes back with someone saying we should let her grow into her role as Princess.. Blah blah blah

It does look calculated as if someone wants only to promote the Charlene/Albert fantasy and keep hidden the real feelings of the opposing side.

I must say, I am very happy that the moderators put up this thread so that people could air their frustrations.

I really enjoy the Royal Forums and was disappointed when this happened. I just stopped posting at the Monaco thread. When people try to control people’s opinions and the right to descent, I am very American btw, that is when I stop posting, because then it’s a waste of time.

I think that posters get very passionate about their opinions, I’ve seen it with Kate and Chelsey especially because the posters actually really care about these royal families, even if it seems silly because none of us have ever really met any of them and probably never will. That could lead to over gushing on one side to over critizing on another side. I have found myself on both sides, gushing over Kate and critizing Charlene. I think in the critizers of Charlene. They know Prince Albert has waited nearly 50 years and don’t want to see him settle with someone like that. People feel he can to better. So I understand the moderators job, as it can be a difficult call sometimes, but I think both opinions must be allowed or people get suspicious.

I must say I admire Elspeth and the Royal Forums for encouraging the members to deal with this and work out any misunderstandings. In my eyes you have gained back so much credibility and I am happy for that.

Hopefully everyone will be happily posting again!
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  #31  
Old 09-06-2006, 10:13 PM
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I'm just wondering but could you all point out all the positive posts/the gushing posts to me. Maybe I need new glasses or something because honestly looking at & through the thread I see mostly non-positive (negative) posts or non gushing posts (& I'm saying this as a member- not as a member of the moderating staff)
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  #32  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:37 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
I started getting PMs from members who were very frustrated about the Albert/Charlene posts, that theirs were getting deleted who didn't promote Charlene and spoke against her. I was even invited to another board. Then it actually happened to a few of MY posts. One was due to photos and I left a message saying the post was deleted but I was trying to fix it. Then I emailed the moderator and asked why. The reply I received was technically understandable but rather unfriendly. It was a photo acknowledgement issue. But the second post that was deleted was for no reason in my opinion.
Your second post was deleted because it was responding to a post that had also been deleted. That's standard moderation procedure. The post to which you were responding was deleted because a few minutes after I posted to say that this was a current-events thread and could people please get back on topic, that poster took the opportunity to respond to a question about a photo with a bunch of comments about the very thing I'd said was inappropriate for a current-events thread.

Quote:
The fact is , it really appeared as though the only posts being allowed up were the ones who said, how great Charlene looks, how happy they were to see them together again, etc.. along those themes.
Warren pointed out some posts where this was not the case, and they were dismissed as not relevant. In the hope that I'm not similarly wasting my time, could you please tell me which parts of this, this, this, this, this, this, and this post, from the middle few pages of the Current Events thread part 3, is talking positively about her?

Quote:
But it seems some people on this boards don’t want to hear that side of the opinion pool, where people strongly disapprove of Charlene. They only want to hear those who think because she is blonde, blue eyed and pretty that she is the perfect princess. Then the Rose Ball thread comes back with someone saying we should let her grow into her role as Princess.. Blah blah blah
Of course some people don't, just as some people don't want to hear a good word about her. However, the moderators aren't here to do the bidding of partisans on either side. If the anti-Charlene people want to talk about her in language from the gutter and with unsubstantiated speculations running riot, their posts will be deleted. If they take the time to be civil in their criticisms, and their opinions are backed with something resembling fact, their posts will remain.

Quote:
I think that posters get very passionate about their opinions, I’ve seen it with Kate and Chelsey especially because the posters actually really care about these royal families, even if it seems silly because none of us have ever really met any of them and probably never will. That could lead to over gushing on one side to over critizing on another side. I have found myself on both sides, gushing over Kate and critizing Charlene. I think in the critizers of Charlene. They know Prince Albert has waited nearly 50 years and don’t want to see him settle with someone like that. People feel he can to better. So I understand the moderators job, as it can be a difficult call sometimes, but I think both opinions must be allowed or people get suspicious.
I'm still mystified how you could read the posts I linked to above and say that we aren't allowing negative opinions. However, you have to understand that generally speaking, gushing isn't against the rules - it can get tiresome to read, but usually it's within the parameters of the forum rules. Over-the-top criticism, where people start on about hookers and tramps and morons and bitches, is a different kettle of fish entirely. If the problem here is that people resent being expected to think before they criticise and to not post in outrageously negative, hurtful, and sarcastic terms, that's sort of too bad. It's possible to express dislike and disappointment without getting into a competition to see who can be the most hateful about it.

We're never going to please everyone, because experience has shown that people on one side of an issue will always accuse us of favouring the other side. In the British forum we're used to being accused of simultaneously being pro-Diana and pro-Camilla (go figure!). We're trying to maintain a forum where people can post without being attacked for their opinions and where people can discuss topics without having to put up with other people spouting venom. Heck, I deleted a post a while back that referred to Jazmin as an ugly little monster who looked like a hooker just like her mother, and as a result I was accused of being racist. Yes, and of only allowing gushing posts about Jazmin and her mother.

Quote:
I must say I admire Elspeth and the Royal Forums for encouraging the members to deal with this and work out any misunderstandings. In my eyes you have gained back so much credibility and I am happy for that.
You're welcome, and thanks for your contribution!
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  #33  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:51 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Avalon I apologize profusely for acting like a child, as you say ten minutes. And no, my post was not off topic or vulgar,but I was rather proud of it. I don't know what happened, as I said when I addressed Lady E that perhaps I hit the wrong button and got a non sent post. As I've done such before. And I do indeed know she deserves a cup of tea and whatever else she wants. I was being silly, I guess.

In addition, I had the name spelled of the person I directed a query to. Instead of Zoni, her name is Zonki. I have since corresponded with her. Thank you. I, personally think this thread is a great idea. At least both sides mods and posters can regard themselves (introspect).
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2006, 06:07 AM
Aristocracy
 
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This thread was a good idea. Now, at least I, know that the moderators are not being mean and injust, pro Charlene or shallow.
We have aired our frustration. Hopefully posting will become fun again, especially if Charlene is out of the picture forever.

Please Albert - do us all a favour - dump the girl.
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  #35  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:04 AM
Serene Highness
 
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I used to really enjoy posting in the Grimaldi forum, but I must say that I have not posted regularly in a long time. I feel very restiricted in what I can or can not say and as a result my posts are simply unheard or misconstrewed. I also think that the articulate creative writing members of this forum are favoured because of thier talents in writing more favourably than those who may not be so skilled in that area and as a result some of creative writers' slanderous and inappropriate comments go untouched, unrepriminded or undeleted. On the bright side this forum does have lovely pictures, but is that what all of the moderaters really want, is just a place where most members will come and view thier pics and not comment? I hope I explained myself well enough.
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  #36  
Old 09-07-2006, 02:47 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lashinka2002
I used to really enjoy posting in the Grimaldi forum, but I must say that I have not posted regularly in a long time. I feel very restiricted in what I can or can not say and as a result my posts are simply unheard or misconstrewed. I also think that the articulate creative writing members of this forum are favoured because of thier talents in writing more favourably than those who may not be so skilled in that area and as a result some of creative writers' slanderous and inappropriate comments go untouched, unrepriminded or undeleted. On the bright side this forum does have lovely pictures, but is that what all of the moderaters really want, is just a place where most members will come and view thier pics and not comment? I hope I explained myself well enough.
Well, we're all human; we're going to be making value judgements about things, and that means that, with the best will in the world, we're not going to be totally consistent. Also, we aren't here all the time, and sometimes things will just slip by us. However, as I said before, I urge you (and everyone else reading this) to contact a moderator or administrator if you see something going on in the forum that you think is inappropriate.

A talented writer is going to able to say things which a person less used to English or just less used to creative writing may not be able to say so well. It's just one of those things that, with the wide range of backgrounds our posters have, some people will know how to skirt close to the edge of what's acceptable and some will have less ability to fine-tune their posts. It's also the case that people who are generally perceived as being good members who abide by the rules and don't cause problems will be cut more slack if they have a momentary lapse of judgement than a person who's forever causing problems. Remember, our moderators are all volunteers, from different time zones and with different amounts of time to devote to the forum, so you're going to see cases where we might not have had a chance to consult with each other before someone has to start editing or deleting.

The important thing is that rather than sit there quietly nursing grievances when something like that happens, you (the generic "you," not you in particular, lashinka) should feel able to contact one of us and talk about it. I'd much rather not have had to find out about this issue by reading complaints over at Royal Blue.
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  #37  
Old 09-07-2006, 05:00 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
This thread was a good idea. Now, at least I, know that the moderators are not being mean and injust, pro Charlene or shallow.
We have aired our frustration. Hopefully posting will become fun again, especially if Charlene is out of the picture forever.

Please Albert - do us all a favour - dump the girl.
I'm glad you think it's helped. I'm afraid the task of engineering a permanent breakup between Albert and Charlene is beyond the job description of the TRF moderators, though.

So are we OK as is, or would a "what is your opinion of Albert and Charlene's relationship" thread have anything positive going for it?
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  #38  
Old 09-08-2006, 01:04 PM
Aristocracy
 
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We are good as it is! Please don't start a thread with her name in it. Let's just pretend she is gone for good, until/if something else comes up.
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  #39  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:59 PM
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On the thread's title: Monaco and the protective shield the moderators hold my opinion is simply based in this and any other forum geting caught up in the wars between royalty and papparazis. Paparrazis and they scout helpers scan any possible news rumor on the most popular celebrities for the season. Once they get a hold of a half truth it goes on the cover to push sales. And the best place to get material for news is forums like this and so many others.

We might discuss long dead royals in great detail and few will get bothered, but currently living royals is like a double edge sword. A rumor here gets a life of it's own in paparrazi hands and puts the place we all love at risk of a lawsuit. That's one line to aproach with caution, one thing is having an opinion and being able to support it and another one is just spreading venom here and there just out of shock value.
Best advice I can give, after you type a post read it back to you as if it was done by someone else. Only then you can see how it would escalate...and then use the Edit option. Some things are better not to be brought into paper all the time.
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  #40  
Old 10-07-2006, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
BUT - since some of us dislike Charlene as immensily as you know - because of her lack of class, lack of elegance, lack of silence, lack of taste, lack of education, etc.
Wow. You dislike people that lack elegance, class, silence, taste, and education? Does that go for everyone or just royals? Because there are lots of people in this world brought up with out the privilege of fine education and refined tastes. Is that really a reason to dislike someone?
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