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  #221  
Old 06-09-2007, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
That is not strictly true.

The King's sisters have been photographed in the past, just not very often. Moreover Lalla Hasna and Lalla Meryem are much more active and have far busier schedules than Salma. Compared to them her role at times can seem pointless.
yes, I agree, thre is nothing new with salma, she hasn't more activities or responsibilities that meryme or hasna
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  #222  
Old 06-10-2007, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lyndaW
Layla27, I agree she could and should do more...."but" this is a country that only recently allowed the royal woman to be photographed...i'm sure she needs to tread softly so she doesn't inadvertently undermine what her husband the King has been doing. And, perhaps he holds her in check so as not to antagonize v arious groups of people who want "no" changes. My sister was in Moracco several years ago and she found that she and her friends were not exactly welcome and had to be super careful.
I have read more on Morraco, and I agree she could do more, but this entire situation is so volatile, she may not want to strike the wrong match, remember Iran and the Shah...he moved too quickly and lost everything. At least the King and his Princess are trying.......
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  #223  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndaW
Layla27, I agree she could and should do more...."but" this is a country that only recently allowed the royal woman to be photographed...i'm sure she needs to tread softly so she doesn't inadvertently undermine what her husband the King has been doing. And, perhaps he holds her in check so as not to antagonize v arious groups of people who want "no" changes. My sister was in Moracco several years ago and she found that she and her friends were not exactly welcome and had to be super careful.
I agree with you lyndaW there is no doubt that she could and she must do more:she is the first lady of morocco still that this role is a new as you said and she is the first who play it and she should do that slow and without the other princess feel in danger and without being in collision with The traditions and the old protocol of monarchy her is age 1219 years old and don't admit the role of first lady it's not as easy as it Appears.
for the comparison I don't think that it's good idea to Compares her work with Lhasna or Lmeryem's work they were in the charity work before her many years ago lalla meryem was only 19 years old when she got her first dutie as princess and now she is 44 (you can imagine how much she done) so it's normal they did much more than her.
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  #224  
Old 06-11-2007, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Times2222
Being the king's sister is the same as being the king's wife who until recently was not given a royal title or photographed.
In the overall scheme of things Salma's role is more important and yet compared to her sister in laws her contribution is minor to say the least.

Being the first acknowledged queen (or princess if people prefer) is important but what is even more important is what she does with her position. At present she seems perfectly content to do the bare minimum which is very poor.
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  #225  
Old 06-12-2007, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
In the overall scheme of things Salma's role is more important and yet compared to her sister in laws her contribution is minor to say the least.

Being the first acknowledged queen (or princess if people prefer) is important but what is even more important is what she does with her position. At present she seems perfectly content to do the bare minimum which is very poor.
Maybe they don't want to upset the older people (as in the people who didn't want Lalla Salma to be in the public eye and have a title) by letting her 'take it slowly' and maybe in the future it will be more. I don't think you can compare the situation of the Princess to any other. The King made her a Princess, but she's the first wife of a King to have a title, if they decide it would be for the best to take it slow, so be it.

(Just my opinion)
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  #226  
Old 06-12-2007, 07:24 AM
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I think everyone needs to remember one thing:
Rania is the exception among Islamic consorts, not the rule.
Her visibility and many activities are not the norm. From my understanding, prior to Queen Alia, even Jordanian queens were not as active.

Lalla Salma is a trailblazer- she is in charge of a major charity, patron of several organizations, and a visible consort to the king.

We cannot judge the role of Lalla Salma through Western eyes, but only through the view of the history and current state of Morocco.
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  #227  
Old 06-12-2007, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
I think everyone needs to remember one thing:
Rania is the exception among Islamic consorts, not the rule.
Her visibility and many activities are not the norm.
Sheikha Mozah, Shekiah Sabeeka, Sheikha Hind, Princess Haya there are plenty of active Royal muslim women out there. It is Lalla Salma's inactivity which is not the norm.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
Lalla Salma is a trailblazer- she is in charge of a major charity, patron of several organizations, and a visible consort to the king.
Seriously what trails has she set ablaze? What has she done that is different, special or unique? She is patron of one charity only, has very few activities and does nothing that has not been done by her sister-in-laws before her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
We cannot judge the role of Lalla Salma through Western eyes, but only through the view of the history and current state of Morocco.
Considering the variety of posters at this forum and the many many posters from Morocco on this board I think it is very unfair to refer to "Western eyes".
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  #228  
Old 06-12-2007, 11:10 AM
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you are completely right, she isn't at all a precursor, I have more admiration for princess aicha (M6's aunt), who was ambassador in Italia
I would have to add that, I am not a western woman, I am from maghreb, and I find that lalla salma isn't a hard working lady, because in my country a lot of women have a very busy professional life with responsibilities (and I am one of them)
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  #229  
Old 06-12-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
Maybe they don't want to upset the older people (as in the people who didn't want Lalla Salma to be in the public eye and have a title) by letting her 'take it slowly' and maybe in the future it will be more. I don't think you can compare the situation of the Princess to any other. The King made her a Princess, but she's the first wife of a King to have a title, if they decide it would be for the best to take it slow, so be it.

(Just my opinion)
I understand what you are saying and to some extent agree. However I sometimes get the impression that even some Moroccans would like Salma to be more active.
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  #230  
Old 06-12-2007, 06:50 PM
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What I meant by trailblazing was that other Moroccan consorts were hidden- she is making steps. She heads a major charity, and serves as an international (representative, is that the word I'm looking for?) for Morocco.

Ok, yes, I was a mistaken about the consorts not doing as much, mostly because of the lack of pictueres (which I understand). My foot is in my mouth- I'll just post here again when I can say "oh what a pretty dress".

What I meant, was that it is nearly impossible to compare Lalla Salma to Mary, Letizia, Camilla, or other European royals because the different precedents in those countries.

My more important point is that comparing Lalla Salma to Queen Rania (in terms of their duties and such) is like comparing Crown Princess Mary and Princess Letizia - on the surface they are similar, but they are different women in different situations and we should respect them for that.
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  #231  
Old 06-13-2007, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
In the overall scheme of things Salma's role is more important and yet compared to her sister in laws her contribution is minor to say the least.

Being the first acknowledged queen (or princess if people prefer) is important but what is even more important is what she does with her position. At present she seems perfectly content to do the bare minimum which is very poor.
my apologies, I meant that Salma's role is NOT the same as the royal princesses. She is the first wife of the king to have a public role so she needs to tread lightly. SHe is still young (mid 20s) and will have plenty of time to expand her role over time. I agree with other posters who say she will have time to feel her way to a more secure role. It has only been a few years and she had 2 babies in that time period as well. The royal princesses are older and were born into their roles.
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  #232  
Old 06-13-2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
What I meant by trailblazing was that other Moroccan consorts were hidden- she is making steps. She heads a major charity, and serves as an international (representative, is that the word I'm looking for?) for Morocco.
Yes, in that viewpoint she is definitely doing soemthing different and positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
Ok, yes, I was a mistaken about the consorts not doing as much, mostly because of the lack of pictueres (which I understand). My foot is in my mouth- I'll just post here again when I can say "oh what a pretty dress".
Lol! Post what you like. However Sheikha Mozah's events are usually covered by photographers as are Sheikah Sabeekah's, both ladies have threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
What I meant, was that it is nearly impossible to compare Lalla Salma to Mary, Letizia, Camilla, or other European royals because the different precedents in those countries.

My more important point is that comparing Lalla Salma to Queen Rania (in terms of their duties and such) is like comparing Crown Princess Mary and Princess Letizia - on the surface they are similar, but they are different women in different situations and we should respect them for that.
Well, of course every monarchy is different I agree with you on that. However even amongst muslim monarchies female members are relatively active, some more than others, as Salma clearly demonstrates.
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  #233  
Old 06-13-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
What I meant by trailblazing was that other Moroccan consorts were hidden- she is making steps. She heads a major charity, and serves as an international (representative, is that the word I'm looking for?) for Morocco.

Ok, yes, I was a mistaken about the consorts not doing as much, mostly because of the lack of pictueres (which I understand). My foot is in my mouth- I'll just post here again when I can say "oh what a pretty dress".

What I meant, was that it is nearly impossible to compare Lalla Salma to Mary, Letizia, Camilla, or other European royals because the different precedents in those countries.

My more important point is that comparing Lalla Salma to Queen Rania (in terms of their duties and such) is like comparing Crown Princess Mary and Princess Letizia - on the surface they are similar, but they are different women in different situations and we should respect them for that.

We are not comparing Lalla Selma to Western princesses (i.e., Mary, letizia, etc) or even to Eastern ones ( Rania, etc.). Selma's work is comapred to the one of her sister in laws (who are moroccan princesses just like her) and to the work done by women in Morocco. I can guarantee you that thousands if not millions of married working women in Morocco are getting more work done than her. Just visit Casablanca and you will understand what I am talking about. Most people I know, think she needs to get more involved and start doing more (given her rank and her education).
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  #234  
Old 06-14-2007, 08:55 AM
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I personally think that a lot of people here are unfair when it comes to princess Lalla Salma,when her sisters in law do the same "fashion mistakes" or make the same work as members of the royal family they don't have half of critics that she usually has,...and what about the third sister of the king ,princess lalla asmaa,is she lazy or less hard working than the other of her sister,imo ,i don't think so,i don't judge the quality of somebody's work on the amount of coverage of his activities and amount of pictures....,if i had to judge a work,so it's the work of the king as the effective head of state,and not of his wife of his sisters, i think they can just be an asset for him,give a positive image and make addition,i won't wait from them to be the champions in the story,and judging the situation in morocco from the begining of reign of the actual morocan king,i would say the statement is very positive,the economic growth is now more than 5% wich is rare nowadays,it even reached 7% on 2000 which was a record,and it was less than 2%before

I personally like Princess Lalla Salma, not for what she will wear or so,but for her real person as a brillant moroccan woman who had brillant career and who came from true moroccan society and from a modest family.
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  #235  
Old 06-14-2007, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TamaraKhan
I personally think that a lot of people here are unfair when it comes to princess Lalla Salma ...
For your information Lalla Asmae (the king's third sister) is taking care of "handicapped kids". She is keeping a low profile, but she is working hard and people know it (so as you see, it is not about coverage, but about results).

As a princess, Lalla Selma needs to get more active. May be she privelages her family life, but in that case she didn't need the title of princess, she could have stayed the king's wife or the "mother of the princes" as they used to call it. She is young, smart, and well educated, so she can do more.

If after her graduation she married a commoner and got a job in the private sector as a software engineer, she would have worked on at least 4 diffrent projects in 5 years. But her only project as a princess was an association for cancer. It is a very good start. Morocco definitely needs to improve the health infrastructure, but she definitely needs and is capable of doing more than this.
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  #236  
Old 06-14-2007, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla27
For your information Lalla Asmae (the king's third sister) is taking care of "handicapped kids". She is keeping a low profile, but she is working hard and people know it (so as you see, it is not about coverage, but about results).

As a princess, Lalla Selma needs to get more active. May be she privelages her family life, but in that case she didn't need the title of princess, she could have stayed the king's wife or the "mother of the princes" as they used to call it. She is young, smart, and well educated, so she can do more.

If after her graduation she married a commoner and got a job in the private sector as a software engineer, she would have worked on at least 4 diffrent projects in 5 years. But her only project as a princess was an association for cancer. It is a very good start. Morocco definitely needs to improve the health infrastructure, but she definitely needs and is capable of doing more than this.
it's time that people make a distinction between working and parading before a camera. how can you possibly know that she isn't active??? if she was all the time on tv, people would say that she only does it to be popular..if she doesn't, then she isn't active enough.

i think whatever she does or doesn't, she will always be critised and i think it's unfair. there are a lot of other princesses in the whole world who don't even do a single thing.
give lalla salma a break. for me she does a great job!
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  #237  
Old 06-15-2007, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by morgeanne
it's time that people make a distinction between working and parading before a camera. how can you possibly know that she isn't active??? if she was all the time on tv, people would say that she only does it to be popular..if she doesn't, then she isn't active enough.

i think whatever she does or doesn't, she will always be critised and i think it's unfair. there are a lot of other princesses in the whole world who don't even do a single thing.
give lalla salma a break. for me she does a great job!
This is exactly what i want to say,people who critisize her should be fair and should know what they want from her,when she makes good job,it's called monopol and it's just for her own image,and when we don't see her a lot,so she's lazy and not hard working,i just gave the example of princess lalla asma,because i personally don't think that she's not doing good job as her two other sisters,even more interesting,i think we have to judge only results if she does some work.

I have the feeling that people find that it's a lot for her to be a princess because she comes from common people,and find in everything she's doing critics in a negative way,and the same people can find less interesting things done by the other princesses more interesting and fabulous....i call that being unfair,if we have to give our opinions,so we have to be fair and not to have two standards for our judgement.
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  #238  
Old 06-15-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraKhan
This is exactly what i want to say,people who critisize her should be fair and should know what they want from her,when she makes good job,it's called monopol and it's just for her own image,and when we don't see her a lot,so she's lazy and not hard working,i just gave the example of princess lalla asma,because i personally don't think that she's not doing good job as her two other sisters,even more interesting,i think we have to judge only results if she does some work.

I have the feeling that people find that it's a lot for her to be a princess because she comes from common people,and find in everything she's doing critics in a negative way,and the same people can find less interesting things done by the other princesses more interesting and fabulous....i call that being unfair,if we have to give our opinions,so we have to be fair and not to have two standards for our judgement.
at last..someone who thinks like me
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  #239  
Old 06-15-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morgeanne
it's time that people make a distinction between working and parading before a camera. how can you possibly know that she isn't active??? if she was all the time on tv, people would say that she only does it to be popular..if she doesn't, then she isn't active enough.
There's no evidence that Salma is working behind the scenes though. Unlike other Royals whose activities we hear about even when they are not photographed. For example Sheikha Hind is fairly active (more so than Salma) and yet has never been photographed.

When Salma is not working, which is more often than she is working, there is no information of what she is doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgeanne
i think whatever she does or doesn't, she will always be critised and i think it's unfair. there are a lot of other princesses in the whole world who don't even do a single thing.
give lalla salma a break. for me she does a great job!
Which princesses are they?

I can only think of the Saudis and Kuwaitis who place such restrictions and yet both countries have some fairly active Royal women, regardless of the restrictions placed upon them.
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  #240  
Old 06-15-2007, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TamaraKhan
I have the feeling that people find that it's a lot for her to be a princess because she comes from common people,and find in everything she's doing critics in a negative way,and the same people can find less interesting things done by the other princesses more interesting and fabulous....i call that being unfair,if we have to give our opinions,so we have to be fair and not to have two standards for our judgement.
I think it's highly unfair and incredibly presumptous that you are making such assumptions about posters' motivations without even asking them.

Moreover it sounds like a very weak argument to me considering the huge numbers of commoner princesses these days.
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