Ukrainian Royalty


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Kamanets

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I was asked a question in a discussion about the Ukraine recently as I study it and it concerned royalty in the Ukraine.
Ukraine never had an established royal house like other countries around it in the past,; they elected Hetman's from the noble familes.
A hetmans power was pretty much absolute in everything from what I gather and have read, complete control of army and navy , elect all officials and judges and was in control of the law and the justice system.
Yet they were not Monarchs in the sense of the word and behave appalingly as most did.
So where does that put their decendants?What social ranks would they have as compared to traditional European families as mentioned in the Almanac De Gotha etc
Some have suggested that the Kievian Princes who were Hetmans were called Crown Princes, but the area is a grey one.
What would be the correct naming for their decendants?
There are a still few people alive who have a direct lineage to the greatest Hetmans of the Ukraine.
After all royalty was ever only a ruling set of families controlling a land and its people to the exclusion of others.
 
Yes I have read the Wikipedia discussions on Hetmans.
While being rather informative , they don't really answer my questions on social position.
Recently a direct ancestor of a Hetman visited the Ukraine, Hryhoriy Rozumovskiy and visited his old families lands with the Minister of Culture.
It is hard to classify their social standings.
Hetmans like Bohdan Khmelnytsky,Petro Doroschenko,and Ivan Mazeppa stand out in history in their abilities and indeed are related to many Royal Houses of Europe as of now.
Doroschenko for example retired as Duke.
Where does that leave their descendants I am not sure, but I do know some of them who would like to revive their ancient heritage but are unsure of how to do this.
What would be a first step in this inititive assuming they have proof of genealogy?
 
Hi Magnik.
Well it would indicate that the decendants of Hetman Doroshenko for example are really related to the royal houses of europe by marriage(Natalie Goronchova for example) and I think are entitled by decendancy to claim their titles.
This would be great I think if these old families were able to claim their lands again and do some good for people as a name means a lot these days.look at princess Mary who married into a family as a commoner and people give her support for her philanthropic endeavors.I think we need more people like her to make this world a better place.
I will pass this information on that you have supplied, because although they know their direct decendants they have not thought about using their social ancestry until now of which they are rightly part of.
 
From what I read above seems the territory that is now Ukraine has been most of the time separate nation-states, like Italy and Germany before their unification?
 
The last Hetman of Ukraine was Pavlo Skoropadsky,who ended up being forced into exile after a reign of a few months.He was killed during an allied air raid in early 1945.

Here's an article; Pavlo Skoropadsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

His daughter is considered to be the heir to his title,but he did have a son who was styled the Hetmanich,but his fate is not yet known.

Aidan.
 
Thanks for this Aidan. The 'Hetmanate' was very short-lived, but the article doesn't make clear whether it was intended at its inception to be an hereditary position, or whether the 1918 Ukrainian state was 'monarchic' in nature. Even if the Hetmanate had managed to survive a few more years, it was inevitable that Stalin would have put an end to it and forcibly annexed the Ukraine into the Soviet empire.
 
Warren,the 1918 Hetmanate was very monarchic in nature,as Hetman Skoropadski was a former aide-de-campe to Czar Nicholas II.

After the overthrow of the Hetmanate,a lot of Ukrainian monarchists ended up fleeing to Canada,which is why there is such a strong Ukrainian minority in Canada today.

There is an active Ukrainian monarchist movement called the United Hetman Organisation,but its profile has been much lower in recent years.

Aidan.
 
hmm

What about a family that has a direct line to Hetman Petro Doroshenko?
This family has kept under the radar for a very long time, but now they are wanting to leave this exile of anonimity and do something positive with their name and titles.
Ukraine is in crisis I think and the more people who step up to the crease to help their country of origin the better I think .Commendable actions.
They have been mulling this over for the last 10 years and I am close to them and looking at how best to help them into their rightful place.
I think anyone with a history like this should stand up and be counted.
 
I've never heard of Hetman Petro Doroshenko.Please tell us more about him.

Aidan.
 
Thankyou Warren..

Yes a Hetman's family is a heraditary title in both Ukraine and Poland.
In Poland for example once granted by the Tsar it could not be revoked under any circumstances and all served until their deaths and many did as such.
A Hetman in teh Ukraine had absolute power as would a king.
They controlled the army , made laws and were the chief justice of the land and the head of the Law.
The most notable Hetmans in Ukraine were elected by their aristocratic peers Khmelnytsky, Doroschenko, Mazeppa, the latter educated and groomed by the former to be a leader.
They hade huge estates and principalities and their decendants still hold title as such passed down the generations and this remains true to this day.
Many don't use them, but some still do like teh Skoropadsky family who are very distantly related to Hetman Skoropadsky , yet maintain the title.
Other have a more direct ascendency and are considered more so.
The head of a Hetman family is considered a Crown Prince from what I have been told and other members are granted Dukeships and Lordships depending on their birth order.
This continues to this day in Ukraine and if you can show that you are a direct descendant of a prominant Hetman , especially the three previously mentioned, then you are allowed to hold and use such titles, 'tho not many do
 
I believe the President of Ukraine when being sworn in holds the Mace of the Hetman and (symbolically at least) is the elected Hetman of Ukraine for his tenure.
 
I assumed that elected leaders in monarchical positions such as the hetmen of the Ukraine and the kings of Poland had no powers to elevate their children to royal status because of their father's position. As with all elected monarchies once the hetman is deceased his family return to their family or territorial titles within the nobility from which their father was elected.
 
There was a plan to have a Habsburg King for UKraine at the end of the first world war?
 
There was a plan to have a Habsburg King for UKraine at the end of the first world war?
That's correct. There were plans to enthrone one of Habsburg archdukes in Lemberg (modern Lviv), a capital of Halychyna. Halychyna was not a part of Ukraine then, it belonged to Austria, and later to Poland.
The plan was not popular among the Greater Ukraine (central and South-Eastern part of the country) due to the fact that the people of Halychyna are not Ukrainians ethnically.
The idea of monarchy is not popular in Ukraine nowadays. The latest Gallup polls show 7% support for monarchy (Russian monarchy).
 
Doroshenko Lineage

What about a family that has a direct line to Hetman Petro Doroshenko?
This family has kept under the radar for a very long time, but now they are wanting to leave this exile of anonimity and do something positive with their name and titles.
Ukraine is in crisis I think and the more people who step up to the crease to help their country of origin the better I think .Commendable actions.
They have been mulling this over for the last 10 years and I am close to them and looking at how best to help them into their rightful place.
I think anyone with a history like this should stand up and be counted.

Hi there,

Thank you for the kind words about my family name. I am one who would like to "step up to the plate", but very unsure how to do this. Being an Australian Citizen with Ukrainian Heritage, I am planning to Visit Ukraine in September 2011, to discover my family history, and visit relative who I have not even met before.

I am not sure if all Doroshenko family members are in some way related to Petro & Mikhail but would love to find out the bloodline. I have no idea how to do this, and would hope that someone could help.

Thank you for this forum, it is very interesting.

For further information on Hetman Petro Doroshenko, please visit: http://doroshenkofamily.wordpress.com/petro-doroshenko/

Mike
www.doroshenko.com
 
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The Rurikids: Anna Yaroslavna, Queen of France, Princess of Kievan Rus'

In the early 1990s, the Ukrainian Embassy in Paris before the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs official request to change the inscription on a tombstone.
Instead of the words "Anna, Queen of France, Princess of Russia," the Ukrainians proposed to write "Anna, Queen of France, Princess of Ukraine".
Full article in French
Google translation into English

More info
Kievan Rus'
Anna Yaroslavna of Kiev
 
But does ukraine have a real history of it's own monarchy.
 
His daughter is considered to be the heir to his title,but he did have a son who was styled the Hetmanich,but his fate is not yet known.

Aidan.

Besides the daughter Maria Motrezor (says wiki), an alleged natural son of her deceased brother Danilo Skoropadsky also claims it - Borys Danilovitch Tuhaibei Skoropadsky. So that I guess is the dispute - male vs legitimate. Her brother Danilo was poisoned allegedly by the KGB and his fiancee miscarried. The one who claims to be his son is from another woman and would have been a baby at the time.

The Heirs of Europe: SKOROPADSKY (UKRAINE)
 
So y did they want to rename the ladies gravestone then in France. Sorry I do not read much on Ukraine.
 
So y did they want to rename the ladies gravestone then in France. Sorry I do not read much on Ukraine.
Which 'ladies' (plural form) do you have in mind, dear?
If you want to re-name Princess Anna of Kievan Rus' monument, you are not aware that Kievan Rus' and Ukraine are not the same.:whistling:

Try to read some books about the Rurikids and Kievan Rus'.
Amazon.com: Kievan Russia (The History of Russia Series) (9780300016475): George Vernadsky: Books
Kievan Russia - Vernadsky, George - Yale University Press
World Civilizations Online Chapter 15 -- Chapter 15 Outline

Google is a friend too.
Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists

vkm-en


The Ist Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists took place on 26 November 2011 in Kamyanets-Podilskyi.

The event, which took place in the Khmelnitsky region of Ukraine is very significant and indicates that a Ukrainian monarchic movement exists (strange as it may appear) and moreover, since this congress, we can say that the monarchic movement has begun to turn into some recognisably organised forms and become a reality of Ukrainian political life. In spite of all its seeming exoticism as regards Ukraine, monarchists do exist in this country…

The main goal and theme of the Congress was to define the possible ways of restoring and establishing monarchy in Ukraine. The meeting of monarchists was organised in the old historical city of Kamyanets-Podilskyi. It was not by mere coincidence that the place for this event was chosen by organisers. The fortress of Kamyanets, which is one of the oldest in country, holds memories of legendary Russ and Lithuanian princes, Polish kings and Russian emperors, who visited this fortress and here made their great decisions that still have a reified influence on the destiny of European nations. The atmosphere of this medieval city, steeped in legends and filled with the spirit of ancient times, really encourages its visitors to think about the great history of the Ukrainian nation that through the centuries was ruled by glorious monarchs, brave knights and noble lords.

The organisers of this unique event are ordinary “little Ukrainians”, representatives of the young intellectual generation of patriots, who sensed the call of their forefathers and an obligation to unite for a great purpose and the future of Ukraine. The vast majority of members of the initiative group that assembled the Congress are active members of the Ukrainian Traditionalist Club from Kyiv, which is a kind of philosophical society that unites people of conservative (traditional) political views. Among the participants of the Congress were also several descendants of Ukrainian noble families. The Congress united delegates from different regions of the country, members of patriotic public organisations, scientists and some other interested individuals who count themselves as monarchists.

Also, taking part in the Ist Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists were representatives of the “Habsburg Foundation”, a charitable organization that was founded and headed by Karl von Habsburg, the grandson of the last Austrian emperor, Charles I, current head of the House of Habsburg-Lothringen, titular king of Galicia and Lodomeria, and duke of Bukovina.

In addition to the Ukrainian delegates at the Congress, also present were foreign guests from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Greece, USA and Belorussia.

According to the programme of the Congress, the plenary session was divided into two parts. In the first part, which was ideological-theoretical, the participants made their reports on political, legal, historical and philosophical themes. Among the main topics, which were reviewed in the first part of the Congress were the issues of historical traditions of Ukrainian nationhood, different types of government, advantages of a monarchy in relation to a republic, legal forms of monarchy and also the issues of hereditary and elective monarchy. Also, some speakers talked about the relations between state and church and religious substantiation of royal power.

At the end of first part of the plenary session there was a discussion of problematic issues between the participants. The most interesting debate was about the period of hetmanate - a short-lived Ukrainian state of 1918, when Hetman Pavlo Skoropadski was an autocratic ruler of Ukraine, who tried to establish monarchy in the country with a military and political facilitation of Germany and Austria. Another controversial question concerned the work of a famous Ukrainian conservative ideologist V. Lypynsky and his theory of hereditary monarchy in the form of hetmanate.

The second part of the Congress was dedicated to organizational issues regarding the establishment and formation of a Ukrainian monarchic movement, and to defining the ways of restoring monarchy in Ukraine. During the session and in the course of reviewing some issues, there were several interesting and heated discussions. We can say that the most difficult was a question of legitimate dynasty and the appointing of concrete pretenders to the Ukrainian throne. As it turned out, among the Ukrainians there is no one who can be a legitimate pretender to the Ukrainian throne or hetman mace. Unfortunately, all Ukrainian-Russian princes and noble families which can be legitimate pretenders to the Kyiv throne have already passed away.

Therefore, the discussion proceeds mainly around the pretenders “from the Varangians” (foreigners), from European royal houses which have sovereign rights and any historical connections to Ukraine. The views of participants divided into three main groups, one of these defending the Habsburg claims, the second supporting the House of Romanov, and the others undecided, - but not in agreement with the previous two options. However, the Ukrainian monarchists think that it is too early to choose a specific dynasty and concrete pretenders. This issue will be resolved a little bit later, during the next meeting. In order to make some decisions at the end of the Congress there was a voting procedure and adoption of a resolution.

The foreign guests who were present at the Congress accepted the proposals and declared their support for the initiative of Ukrainian monarchists and promised to help them in their future activity and to provide international facilitation and informational support for the movement which has started in Kamyanets-Podilskyi.

The results of the Ist Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists were formalized in its decisions that resulted in 13 paragraphs of a resolution. Thus, according to paragraph 3 of the Resolution - the Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists (C.U.M.) was recognised as the central coordinator and main collegial body of the united monarchic movement of Ukraine. The Resolution has called up on all Ukrainian patriots, supporters of the conservative political views,
monarchists, and others of a similar disposition to unite around the C.U.M. in order to establish the organised monarchic movement and restore monarchy in Ukraine. By the decision of the majority of delegates of Congress, utilising a free voting procedure, it was decided that a future Ukrainian monarchy should be constitutional and hereditary. Also, that the basic principle of the activity of Ukrainian monarchists was to be non-violent ideological engagement, and that legitimate restoration of monarchy in the country is possible only by changing the Constitution of Ukraine. In future, all decisions that are are deemed necessary for Ukrainian monarchists to engage with will be made during regular session of the Congress.

Also, among the agreements reached at the Congress, the most determinative concerned the necessity of creating the organisation of Ukrainian monarchists, which has to become the main instrument of ideological combat for the restoration of monarchy in Ukraine. It is in view of this project that this organisation will be created in the nearest future. The constant and task oriented activity of the monarchists’ organisation on the territory of the whole country will quickly spread the idea of Ukrainian monarchy among the people and will prepare the ground for the necessary constitutional transformation.

Unfortunately, the Ist Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists didn’t resolve all of the problematic issues which monarchists have today. Among these issues there are some ideological and some legal. Also, one of the most difficult is a question of legitimate dynasty. Besides that, the monarchists present didn’t reach an agreement concerning the leader (a person who can become head of the movement). Therefore, all these and other questions will be reviewed at the IInd Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists, which will take place in Lviv on 28-29 April 2012.

It is commonly perceived that history is like a spiral. Maybe now we are becoming witnesses and immediate creators of new Ukrainian history, history that has begun in Kamyanets-Podilskyi, the city of the sun…

In spite of all sceptical noises of the enemies of the monarchic idea, permanent attacks from the left and right political flanges, and the disbelieving laughter of the republicans, pseudo-democrats, socialists and liberals, the Ist Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists persuasively assured its participants that in XXI century Ukraine a new force has suddenly appeared that ambitiously declares itself. This force is grounded on the ancient tradition, faith of our forefathers and the creative mind.

Ukrainian monarchists are confident that the time will come when the Grand Duke will sit in Kyiv, on the throne of our ancestors, and will raise the hetman mace of Bohdan (Khmelnitsky) radiating the glory of Ukraine all around the world…Saint Sophia of Kyiv will rejoice again, the bells will ring happily and Ukraine will welcome its saviour – the Anointed One !

The monarchists believe in this…and our belief is strengthened and fortified because we are Ukrainians...... and God is with Us!

Viva Ukraine and God save the King!!!
 

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I Congress of Ukrainian Monarchists

Here are some photos from the Congress...And the Crown of the 1st King of Rus - King Danylo of Galych...
 

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Welcome to the TRF!
Your information is great and rather impressive.
 
King of Rus

Kingdom of Galicia

In 1245, Pope Innocent IV allowed Danylo to be crowned king. Danylo wanted more than recognition, commenting bitterly that he expected an army when he received the crown.[6] Although Danylo promised to promote recognition of the Pope to his people, his realm continued to be ecclesiastically independent from Rome. Thus, Danylo was the only member of the Rurik dynasty to have been crowned king. Danylo was crowned by the papal archbishop in Dorohychyn 1253 as the first King of all Rus' (Rex Russiae; 1253–1264). In 1256 Danylo succeeded in driving the Mongols out of Volhynia, and a year later defeated their attempts to capture the cities of Lutsk and Volodymyr-Volynskyi.[5]

Under Danylo's reign, Galicia–Volhynia was one of the most powerful states in east central Europe.
 

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...the Crown of the 1st King of Rus - King Danylo of Galych...
The crown appears to be a modern representation rather than a medieval crown from 1253.
 
The crown appears to be a modern representation rather than a medieval crown from 1253.

You are wright. This is the modern copy (reconstruction) of that medieval crown. The origin crown of King Danylo were lost....
 
Does GD Maria Wladimirova know of this second conference? I think she would love to come along with her 'heir' Georgi, and investigate.
 
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