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  #101  
Old 07-28-2011, 12:42 PM
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HERE LIE THE HIGH KINGS OF IRELAND

HERE LIE THE HIGH KINGS OF IRELAND - NYTimes.com
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  #102  
Old 07-28-2011, 12:58 PM
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Thank you Ard Ri for the link to a great article. When I put down the Kings of Ireland I want to make clear that this is not all of them and I do not post dates past 461 AD as it can get confusing with differant dates. I try to stay with the Historical. I will post the connection to Flann Sinna of Ireland through his daughter that married into the MacKinnons as soon as I can. There is also a genetic connection from St Columbas sibling to MacFhingones/MacKinnons and last but not least the connection of MacKinnon that married Harald I of Norway daughter in detail. I bid you all peace. Ancient Princess
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  #103  
Old 07-28-2011, 01:55 PM
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St Columbas connection to MacKinnons was through his eldest brother

Ard Righ King Gabran I Cenel Lorne of Ireland*** (454 - 534)
is your 41rst great grandfather to Ardra Raye McKinnon (Kilmorie Mishnish)

Ard Righ King Gabran II of Lorn of Ireland*** (470 - )
Son of Ard Righ King Gabran I Cenel Lorne
&
Eithne of Cenel Connail
Had two sons:
1 Gabhran II of Lorn
2 Crimthann or Colum Cill (St Columba)

Ard Righ King Aedan of Lorn of Ireland*** (495 - 585)
Son of Ard Righ King Gabran II of Lorn

Ard Righ King Eochu Buide of Lorn of Ireland*** (565 - 630)
Son of Ard Righ King Aedan of Lorn

Ard Righ King Domnall I Brecc of Lorn of Ireland*** (588 - 642)
Son of Ard Righ King Eochu Buide of Lorn

Ard Righ King Domangart II of Lorn of Ireland*** (600 - 673)
Son of Ard Righ King Domnall I Brecc of Lorn

Ard Righ King Eochaid II of Lorn of Ireland*** (635 - 697)
Son of Ard Righ King Domangart II of Lorn

King Eochaidh III of Lorn of Pictish Dalraida*** (665 - 721)
Son of Ard Righ King Eochaid II of Lorn

King Aodh Hugh Fionn of Lorn of Pictish Alba*** (695 - 778)
Son of King Eochaidh III of Lorn

King Eochaidh IV 73rd King or Eochy of Lorn of Pictish Alba*** (739 - 839)
Son of King Aodh Hugh Fionn of Lorn

King Alpin of Lorn Royal of Pictish Alba*** (784 - 841)
Son of King Eochaidh IV 73rd King or Eochy of Lorn

King Donald or Dungal I 75th King Royal of Alpin*** (811 - 863)
is your 32rd great grandfather to Ardra Raye McKinnon. The Line is a straight descent of all elder males till Ardra. Kenneth I of Alpins line to Ardra switchs back and forth to older and younger siblings (male and female) and stops at MacBeth in which his stepson Lulach (not of original Alpin bloodline) takes the crown by force.

Prince Girig Royal of Alpin*** (835 - 889)
Son of King Donald or Dungal I 75th King Royal

Prince Doungallus Royal of Alpin*** (875 - )
Son of Prince Girig Royal

Chief Finguine/Findanus Royal MacFhingone/MacKinnon*** (933 - 976)
Son of Prince Doungallus Royal

Chief MacFindanus/Finleac Royal MacFhingone/MacKinnon*** (950 - 1020)
Son of Chief Finguine/Findanus Royal

Chief Donald Royal MacFhingone/MacKinnon*** (967 - 1033)
Son of Chief MacFindanus/Finleac Royal

Chief Cormac Royal MacKinnon*** (983 - 1066)
Son of Chief Donald Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1031 - 1096)
Son of Chief Cormac Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1052 - 1126)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Kenneth Royal MacKinnon*** (1082 - 1156)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Donald Royal MacKinnon*** (1099 - 1186)
Son of Chief Kenneth Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1126 - 1216)
Son of Chief Donald Royal

Chief Eowin Royal MacKinnon*** (1149 - 1246)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Alpin Royal MacKinnon*** (1166 - 1252)
Son of Chief Eowin Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1198 - 1294)
Son of Chief Alpin Royal

Chief Donald Royal MacKinnon*** (1224 - 1315)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Eobhan Royal MacKinnon*** (1261 - 1351)
Son of Chief Donald Royal

Chief Lachlan or John ,"Sa Gartach" Royal MacKinnon*** (1328 - 1350)
Son of Chief Eobhan Royal

Chief Lachlan Na Thiomlaidh, "Vir Nobilis" Royal MacKinnon*** (1345 - 1442)
Son of Chief Lachlan or John ,"Sa Gartach" Royal

Chief Nial Buidh Royal MacKinnon*** (1365 - 1460)
Son of Chief Lachlan Na Thiomlaidh, "Vir Nobilis"

Chief Lachlan Bhan Royal MacKinnon*** (1402 - 1501)
Son of Chief Nial Buidh Royal

Chief Nial Bhan Royal MacKinnon*** (1500 - 1572)
Son of Chief Lachlan Bhan Royal

Chief Ewen or Eoghan Rudh nan Cath Royal MacKinnon*** (1517 - 1557)
Son of Chief Nial Bhan Royal

Chief Lachlan Dhu The Black Hair MacKinnon*** (1545 - 1634)
Son of Chief Ewen or Eoghan Rudh nan Cath Royal

Sir & Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1562 - 1634)
Son of Chief Lachlan Dhu The Black Hair

Chief Ian Balbhan The Dumb Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1579 - 1642)
Son of Sir & Chief Lachlan Royal

Sir & Chief Lachlan Mor of Kilmorie Line of the Royal older line of Mackinnon*** (1628 - 1706)
Son of Chief Ian Balbhan The Dumb Royal Kilmorie

Chief Ian Na of Mishnish Royal of Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1659 - 1750)
Son of Sir & Chief Lachlan Mor of Kilmorie Line

Lt John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1735 - 1774)
Son of Chief Ian Na of Mishnish Royal

Major John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1752 - )
Son of Lt John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

Hugh I of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1803 - 1885)
Son of Major John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

William Alexander of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1822 - 1912)
Son of Hugh I of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

William Edwin of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1863 - 1951)
Son of William Alexander of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

William Clarence of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1889 - 1959)
Son of William Edwin of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

Ardra Raye of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie McKinnon*** (1937 - )
Daughter of William Clarence of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie
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  #104  
Old 07-28-2011, 02:06 PM
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Ranald I of Norways line into MacKinnons

Halfdan the Black Gudrodsson of Norway
is your 32nd great grandfather

King Harald I Fairhair of Norway (860 - 933)
Son of Halfdan the Black Gudrodsson of

Princess Mary Haraldsdatter of Norway (930 - )
Daughter of King Harald I Fairhair married

Findanus MacFhingone/MacKinnon***
they had MacFindanus/Finleac MacFhingone/MacKinnon

Chief MacFindanus/Finleac Royal MacFhingone/MacKinnon*** (950 - 1020)
Son of Princess Mary

Chief Donald Royal MacFhingone/MacKinnon*** (967 - 1033)
Son of Chief MacFindanus/Finleac Royal

Chief Cormac Royal MacKinnon*** (983 - 1066)
Son of Chief Donald Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1031 - 1096)
Son of Chief Cormac Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1052 - 1126)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Kenneth Royal MacKinnon*** (1082 - 1156)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Donald Royal MacKinnon*** (1099 - 1186)
Son of Chief Kenneth Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1126 - 1216)
Son of Chief Donald Royal

Chief Eowin Royal MacKinnon*** (1149 - 1246)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Alpin Royal MacKinnon*** (1166 - 1252)
Son of Chief Eowin Royal

Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1198 - 1294)
Son of Chief Alpin Royal

Chief Donald Royal MacKinnon*** (1224 - 1315)
Son of Chief Lachlan Royal

Chief Eobhan Royal MacKinnon*** (1261 - 1351)
Son of Chief Donald Royal

Chief Lachlan or John ,"Sa Gartach" Royal MacKinnon*** (1328 - 1350)
Son of Chief Eobhan Royal

Chief Lachlan Na Thiomlaidh, "Vir Nobilis" Royal MacKinnon*** (1345 - 1442)
Son of Chief Lachlan or John ,"Sa Gartach" Royal

Chief Nial Buidh Royal MacKinnon*** (1365 - 1460)
Son of Chief Lachlan Na Thiomlaidh, "Vir Nobilis"

Chief Lachlan Bhan Royal MacKinnon*** (1402 - 1501)
Son of Chief Nial Buidh Royal

Chief Nial Bhan Royal MacKinnon*** (1500 - 1572)
Son of Chief Lachlan Bhan Royal

Chief Ewen or Eoghan Rudh nan Cath Royal MacKinnon*** (1517 - 1557)
Son of Chief Nial Bhan Royal

Chief Lachlan Dhu The Black Hair MacKinnon*** (1545 - 1634)
Son of Chief Ewen or Eoghan Rudh nan Cath Royal

Sir & Chief Lachlan Royal MacKinnon*** (1562 - 1634)
Son of Chief Lachlan Dhu The Black Hair

Chief Ian Balbhan The Dumb Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1579 - 1642)
Son of Sir & Chief Lachlan Royal

Sir & Chief Lachlan Mor of Kilmorie Line of the Royal older line of Mackinnon*** (1628 - 1706)
Son of Chief Ian Balbhan The Dumb Royal Kilmorie

Chief Ian Na of Mishnish Royal of Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1659 - 1750)
Son of Sir & Chief Lachlan Mor of Kilmorie Line

Lt John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1735 - 1774)
Son of Chief Ian Na of Mishnish Royal

Major John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1752 - )
Son of Lt John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

Hugh I of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie Mackinnon*** (1803 - 1885)
Son of Major John of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

William Alexander of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1822 - 1912)
Son of Hugh I of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

William Edwin of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1863 - 1951)
Son of William Alexander of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

William Clarence of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie MacKinnon*** (1889 - 1959)
Son of William Edwin of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie

Ardra Raye of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie McKinnon*** (1937 - )
Daughter of William Clarence of Mishnish and Royal Kilmorie
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  #105  
Old 07-28-2011, 02:26 PM
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Pictish Chronicles Kings List reliable sources...

Scottish and Pictish Additions to the "Historia Britonum" There are many other documents containing references to Pictish kings. The majority of them appear to derive from a few early sources, such as the Pictish Chronicle described above, and are generally riddled with scribal errors and corruptions. While there might be some interest in exploring these, they can shed little new light on the topic at hand. A different case can be made for some Pict-related additions to the "Historia Britonum", a legendary chronicle composed around the 7-8th century that gives accounts of the early history of the various races inhabiting Britain. Some of the contents are historical, much is legendary. The best-known early version of this was preserved by Nennius in 858, although there is another from slightly earlier in the same century. The Scottish-related material first appears in a 10th century copy (Harlein MS 3859). (Skene p.xxiiiff) There is some interest in noting the personal names appearing in the Old Welsh king-lists in these manuscripts that correspond to names appearing among the Picts: Eugein, Beli, Elfin, Neithon, perhaps Cinhil. But only four entries specifically identify individuals as Picts, all of them kings. The names don't clearly correspond to individuals in the "historic" king-list (except perhaps for Talorcan), but it should be considered that "king of the Picts" can mean "_a_ king of the Picts" rather than "_the_ king of the Picts". Although the existing copy of this text dates from the 10th century, the nature of the material -- except for very early entries, the material was generally written down contemporary with the event -- and the relatively short lag between the events and the existing copy give us a fairly high confidence level in the forms of the names.
  • 736 Ougen rex Pictorum obiit. [Ougen, king of the Picts died]
  • 750 Bellum inter Pictos et Brittones ... et rex eorum Talargan .... [War between Picts and Britons ... and their king Talargan ....]
  • 776 Cemoyd rex Pictorum obiit. [Cemoyd, king of the Picts died.]
  • 856 Cemoyth rex Pictorum moritur. [Cemoyth, king of the Picts was killed. (Same name, obviously different person.)]
D. OGHAM INSCRIPTIONS

Another potential source of names is an assortment of Pictish stone inscriptions which are, with two or three exceptions, written in the Ogham alphabet developed in Ireland. Based on the particular version of the alphabet used and the style of the accompanying decoration, they can be dated to the 8-9th century - - the very end of the period of identifiable Pictish culture. (Wainwright p.139) Several names found on the stones can be identified with names from manuscript sources.

"Eddarrnonn" (doubling of letters seems common in Pictish inscriptions), or "Idarnoin" in one of the Roman-letter inscriptions, seems to correspond to "Ethernan" or "Ithernan", the first bishop of Rathin and with the entry for "Itharnan" in the Ulster Annals (669). It does not appear to be a Celtic name.
"Drosten" appears in one of the Roman-letter inscriptions.
"Uoret", also from a Roman-letter inscription, corresponds with the Old Breton name "Uuoret" and perhaps with the Pictish king listed as "Uurad" in manuscript.
The Gaelic "Forcus" also appears in a Roman-letter inscription, cognate with "Uurguist" appearing in manuscript.
"Nehhton" appears in Ogham, corresponding to the "Nechton" of the manuscripts, and is almost certainly Celtic.
Other than these names, the only identifiable elements in the inscriptions are the word "crroscc" (from the Gaelic for "cross"), and a number of instances of Gaelic "maqq" or "meqq", the usual Ogham form of "mac" (son) and possibly its genitive "meic". The unintelligibility of the remainder of the inscriptions -- even when the legibility is perfect -- lends a great deal of support to the thesis that some non-Celtic Pictish language was still in common use at this point. (This makes it all the more maddening that it could survive so late, and yet not be recorded in sufficient quantity that we could know anything about it.) The use of Gaelic "maqq" in these inscriptions does not contradict that theory any more than the use of Latin "filius" in, for example, English documentary forms denies the existence and use of the English language. (Jackson suggests another possibility -- that the Pictish culture may originally have been so lacking in the concept of fatherhood that they had to borrow a foreign word for "son".)
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  #106  
Old 07-28-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient Princess View Post
Thank you Ard Ri for the link to a great article.
Hope you enjoyed that article Ancient Princess?
Have you ever heard of the ancient monastic site of Clonmacnoise? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonmacnoise
Many High Kings & other Kings/Queens were buried there,its mainly all in ruins since the time of Cromwell when it was sacked & never recovered. I've been there a few times & it can be quite haunting,you won't catch me there on Hallowe'en night
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  #107  
Old 07-29-2011, 08:58 PM
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Ancient Princess, I must, with respect, interupt your disinformation on Clan Mackay and Clan Gregor. The Chief IS NOT any chieftess, it is none other than Lord Hugh Mackay, 14th Lord Reay of Reay, Member of the House of Lords, The European Parliament, and Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry from 1991-1992. He is the 27th Chief of the Clan, and Baron Ophemert and Zinnewijnen in the Netherlands. His family IS NOT Norwegian, DNA results indicate his family is descended from the Scottish royal Dal-Raida clan. He is most likely descended from King MacBeth's uncle, Prince Domhnall mac Ruaridh of Moray whose existence is recorded in the documentary grants of land to the Scottish Celtic Church. If you disseminated this kind of information in Scotland, you would be liable for prosecution by the Procurator Fiscal of the Lyon Court.

Clan Gegor IS NOT descended from King Alpin- at least not in the male line. The 11th century "Pedigrees of the Clans" trace the Chief's family from Prince Ferchar Og, younger son of King Ferchar II "The Tall" who was king of Dal-Riada and high king of Scots from 673 -694. Ferchar Og's descendant was Gregor, a cousin of King MacBeth. It is THIS Gregor, not "Gregor of the Golden Bridles" who is the true progenitor of the Clan Gregor. All this information is confirmed by the 11th century manuscripts of Abbot Tighernac, the Irish annalist who listed all the families descended from the Gaelic kings of Scotland. Tighernac's manuscripts are also confirmed by the tombstones on Iona.
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  #108  
Old 07-29-2011, 09:45 PM
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This was taken from the Official site of the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs and it is current July 2011.

Clan Chiefs

Details of the the current Clan Chiefs who are members of the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs are shown below. Although every care has been taken in the preparation of these details, the accuracy of individual entries cannot be guaranteed. All errors, omissions or corrections should be directed to Mr. Romilly Squire at the office of the Standing Council.
Clicking on the clan crest will take you to the specific clan section where you can learn more about the history of the clan, view its various tartans and discover a great deal of further information.

SIR MALCOLM MACGREGOR OF MACGREGOR BT.
Loophill
Canonbie
Dumfrieshire
DG 14 0XW
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  #109  
Old 07-29-2011, 10:59 PM
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Clan MacKay

I did a background check on The Lord Hugh MacKay 14th Lord of Reay of Clan MacKay and found He is in fact a Chief, However; it states on the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs that a Elizabeth Fairbairn of Clan MacKay is Chieftess...so we were both right. I went further to find out who she was and found on the MacKay clan site that she serves as the Hon Elizabeth Fairbairn of MacKay Clan. The lineage that Domhangairt had put done is doubtful, but; he was correct in stating the Chief of Clan MacKay is Hugh MacKay. My apologies Domhangairt. If you go the the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs they have Elizabeth down as Chief, so it is the error of the council to post that down. Now as far as the current Clan MacGregor Chief, the information I have is from the Chief himself so you will have to take up your differant version with him. As far as being demeaning to someone, it is in poor form no matter how you cut it and I am not here for that Domhangairt. I bid you peace again Domhangairt, now lets enjoy the site alright?

Here is what the Offical Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs has down for the current Chief of Clan MacKay...this is taken from their site so you can see that this is where I gleaned the information. It states that the current Chief of Clan MacKay is Elizabeth Fairbairn which in turn would make her a Chieftess.

Clan Chiefs

Details of the the current Clan Chiefs who are members of the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs are shown below. Although every care has been taken in the preparation of these details, the accuracy of individual entries cannot be guaranteed. All errors, omissions or corrections should be directed to Mr. Romilly Squire at the office of the Standing Council.
Clicking on the clan crest will take you to the specific clan section where you can learn more about the history of the clan, view its various tartans and discover a great deal of further information.

Mackay

THE HON. ELIZABETH FAIRBAIRN
38 Moray Place
Edinburgh

EH3


The Clans of the Scottish Highlands by R.R. McIan published in 1845 page 124 Soil Mhorgan No Clann Aodh - Clan MacKay first paragraph:
The origins of this clan cannot be satisfactorily discovered, but traditionary notices have been collected which carries its descent to Morgan son of Magnus the ancestor of MacKays that flourished from 1315 to 1325 and from him the clan has been calledSiol Mhorgan the race and offspring of Morgan.

Scottish Highlanders by Charles MacKinnon of Dunakin pg 188 published 1984 first paragraph:
The Mackays had a definate record of genealogy as being descended from Alexander alive in 1214 who appears to have been their founder. Walter his son who was a chamberlain to the bishop's daughter. Martin his son. Magnus his son who fought for the Bruce at Bannockburn 1314. Morgan his son and this is where the clan is called at times Morgan. Donald his son married MacNeil of Gigha. Aoidh or Y his son counted as the 3rd chief from whom the clan takes it's name MacKay or Clann Aoidh.

The Norwegian Sagas have a connection to MacKays. The historical record of MacKays are connected with the Donald of Moray which was a younger brother to MacBeth. It also states in the Clans of the Scottish Highlands that the Rt Hon Eric Lord of Reay left no issue so the Chiefship went to the younger brother the Rt Hon Major Alexander MacKay and if his family failed it would go to the family in Holland. MacKay of Auchness is accounted Chief presumptive on failure of the direct elder line.

*This is just some of the differant versions of MacKay.
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  #110  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:34 PM
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Now as far as the MacGregors go they went back as far as Hugh of Glenorchy and before this (according to the Honorable Chief and the Lord Lyons Courts) there was no MacGregor/Gregor/Grigor recorded and no viable evidence to prove their case. There were four main lines of MacGregor; Gregor of Glenstrae, Gregor of Glencarmaig, Gregor of Roro and Gregor of Glengyle. The Eldest line died out being Gregor of Glenstrae. This is from the accepted genealogy of the current Chief of MacGregor and examined and approved by the Lord Lyon Courts. There are many people out in this world today that are related to MacGregors that would like you to think they go back further than they really do. So moral to the story always check any Clan Chiefs lineage with the Lord Lyons Courts and the Council of Irish and Scottish Chiefs as they have the only reliable sources for genealogies. MacGregors did not go back to Fearchar Og. I bid you all a great night, Ancient Princess
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  #111  
Old 07-30-2011, 12:12 AM
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I really enjoy the website,"The High Council of Clan Donald", featureing all their Honorable Chiefs. 1. The Rt Hon. Lord MacDonald of MacDonald, 2. Sir Ian MacDonald of Sleat, 3. Ranald MacDonald of Clan Ranald, 4. Ranald MacDonell of Glengarry, 5. The Rt Hon. Eral of Atrim. It is a wonderful site to learn their history. Their genealogies have been examined and approved by the Lord Lyon Courts and the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. They have an exciting Y DNA project going on now that will connect them to Somerled which was of Norse (or Norweigen) ancestry.
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  #112  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:19 AM
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The great MacQuarrie Clan history and it's lost Chief...

The Chiefship of the Clan

The first chief of the name that we have any definite proof of was Iain or John Macquarrie of Ulva, who died around 1473. Histories speak of chiefs leading the clan earlier on, however. Hector MacQuarrie of Ulva supported the Bruce at Bannockburn and even earlier, during the reign of Alexander II, in 1249, Cormac Mor, chief of Ulva, supported the king against Norwegian invaders and was killed by Haco of Norway.

The last MacQuarrie chief was Lauchlan MacQuarrie of Ulva who was born in 1715 and died in 1818 at Glenforsa in Mull, at the age of 103.

The status of the chief of any clan must be approved through the Lord Lyon King of Arms in Scotland. Lord Lyon has declared that a clan with a dormant chiefship may install a cean-cath, or Commander of the clan, to rally the clan, convene meetings, etc. All members of the clan would treat him with the respect and honor worthy of his position, as if he had been selected by the chief to act as his representative in his absence. Such a Commander would need to be selected by the armigerous members of the clan and approved by Lord Lyon.

A goal for the MacQuarrie clan in the 21st century is to appoint a Commander and search for our hereditary chief.


Lauclan MacQuarrie, last chief of Clan MacQuarrie, d. 181
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  #113  
Old 07-30-2011, 02:02 AM
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Thank you Ard Ri, I did go to the site and found it very informatiive. To bad a bunch of people could get together and help fix up these great places it is a shame they are in disrepair. And I do agree on being there on Halloween night, I would be a bit jumpy looking out for the Banshees...Blessings to you my friend, Ancient Princess
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  #114  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:08 AM
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Its always amazed me why The RC Church in Ireland never rebuilt these great monastic sights after the Act of Catholic Emancipation. The Irish landscape is scarred with Monastic ruins,many of them are in a poor state
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  #115  
Old 08-29-2011, 02:56 PM
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On August 29th,1170 Aoife of Leinster (daughter of the King of Leinster) married the Norman Lord,Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke(Strongbow) at Christ CHurch in Waterford.

Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aoife MacMurrough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #116  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:44 PM
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Mac - Mc - mac - M' etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient Princess View Post
"Mac", as I understand it means for the man and ,"Mc" means for the woman. I have never heard of it's meaning if the child was legitimate? Can anyone comment on this. How wanderful, The Great McDonald's. Which line of McDonald? Keppoch, Ranald, Etc...

The truth is that Mac, Mc, mac and what is sometimes written in old documents or in signatures as M' (i.e. "c" as superscript) all mean "son of".

The idea that Mac relates to a man and Mc a woman is completely incorrect. The way in which Mac is written has been down to personal style...and continues to be to this day.
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  #117  
Old 09-04-2011, 10:48 AM
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You are correct in the Mac or Mc, however...

I have seen the Mac/Mc used not only for father/son but have seen it used for male/female. So I do believe it to be a choice.
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  #118  
Old 09-04-2011, 11:11 AM
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The Battle of Clontarf

Battle of Clontarf (Irish: Cath Chluain Tarbh) took place on 23 April 1014 between the forces of Brian Boru and the forces led by the King of Leinster, Máel Mórda mac Murchada: composed mainly of his own men, Viking mercenaries from Dublin and the Orkney Islands led by his cousin Sigtrygg, as well as the one rebellious king from the province of Ulster. It ended in a rout of the Máel Mórda's forces, along with the death of Brian, who was killed by a few Norsemen who were fleeing the battle and stumbled upon his tent. After the battle, Ireland returned to a fractious status quo between the many small, separate kingdoms that had existed for some time.



Background


Brian Boru had ruled most of Ireland since 1002, but the island was still highly fractious and the title of "High King" had been largely ceremonial. Brian looked to change this, and unite the island, which he set about doing over a period of years.
In 997, Brian Boru and Máel Sechnaill mac Domnaill had met in Clonfert and reached an agreement where they recognized each other's reign over their respective halves of the country. Brian attacked Máel Sechnaill's territory constantly, which forced Máel Sechnaill to resign his land to Brian.
In 1012, the king of Leinster, Máel Mórda mac Murchada, rose in revolt. His attempts were quickly thwarted when Brian arranged a series of cross-marriages, giving his daughter to Sigtrygg Silkbeard, leader of the Dublin Vikings, and himself marrying Sigtrygg's mother and Máel Mórda's sister, Gormlaith. However this alliance was destined not to last, and in 1013 Máel Mórda again went to Sigtrygg for help after being admonished by Gormlaith for accepting Brian's rule. This time Sigtrygg was ready to fight, and various Irish clans who were envious of Brian quickly joined him.
Brian immediately imprisoned Gormlaith, and went on a series of raids around Dublin in order to tie down any Irish who would attempt to join the Viking forces. Meanwhile Gormlaith contacted Sigurd Lodvesson, the Viking earl of the Orkney Isles, to come to her aid. He not only agreed, but in turn contacted Brodir of the Isle of Man to join the fight. Sigurd and Brodir both planned on killing the other after the battle to take the seat of High King for themselves, while Sigtrygg was busy trying to form alliances with everyone involved in an attempt to at least retain his own seat in Dublin.
In 1014, Brian's army had mustered and set off towards Dublin. As they approached, the Irishmen of Meath, commanded by ex-high king Máel Sechnaill mac Domnaill, refused to take part in the battle. This left him with 4,500 men, outnumbering the 1,000 or so under Sigtrygg, but considerably worse equipped in comparison. They arrived outside the walls of Dublin and set up camp.
That night Brian received news that the Viking forces had boarded their longships and headed out to sea, deserting Sigtrygg. This was in fact a ruse. After nightfall they turned around and landed on the beaches of Clontarf, just over a mile to the north of Dublin, in order to surprise Brian's army the next day. At the time Dublin was only on the south shore of the River Liffey, connected to the north bank, and Clontarf, only by a single bridge. This allowed the Vikings time to disembark and prepare in relative safety.
Battle


Battle of Clontarf, oil on canvas painting by Hugh Frazer, 1826, Isaacs Art Center


The Viking army formed up into five divisions on the field, while Sigtrygg and 1,000 of his men remained in town. Sigtrygg's son commanded the extreme left of the line with 1,000 of the men from Dublin who decided to fight in the open. Máel Mórda added another 3,000 men from Leinster in two divisions. Although numerous, they too were poorly armed in comparison to the Vikings on either side. Sigurd's Orkney Vikings manned the center with 1,000 men, and Brodir's Vikings added another 1,000 or more on the right, on the beaches.
Brian's forces were arranged in a similar fashion. On the right (the Viking left) were 1,000 foreign mercenaries and Manx Vikings. Next to them, 1,500 clansmen of Connacht were gathered under their kings, while more than 2,000 Munster warriors under Brian's son Murchad continued the front, flanked by 1,400 Dal Caissans on the extreme left led by Murchad's 15-year-old son, Tordhelbach, and Brian's brother, Cuduiligh. Off to the right and several hundred yards to the rear stood Máel Sechnaill's 1,000 men who simply watched.
The battle opened with several personal taunts between men in either line, often ending with the two men marching out into the middle of the field to enter personal battle, while the forces on either side cheered. While this went on the two groups slowly edged towards each other. They engaged early in the morning.
At first the battle went the Vikings' way, with their heavier weapons prevailing over their opponents as everyone had expected. This advantage also served Brian, whose Viking mercenaries on his right slowly pushed back the forces facing them. On the left, Brodir himself led the charge and gained ground, until he met the warrior Wolf the Quarrelsome, brother of King Brian. Although Wolf was unable to break Brodir's armor, he knocked him to the ground and Brodir fled to hide. This left the now leaderless Viking force facing Murchad's forces, who considered themselves the "king's own" (containing many of Brian's more distant relatives) and by the afternoon Brodir's forces were fleeing to their ships.
In the center things were going more the Vikings' way. Both Sigurd's and Máel Mórda's forces were hammering into the Munster forces. However Sigurd, according to legend, carried a "magical" standard into battle which drew the Irish warriors to it, eventually forcing their way in and killing the bearer. Although the standard was supposed to guarantee a victory for the bearer's forces, it also guaranteed the bearer's death. No one would pick it up due to its reputation, so Sigurd did and was quickly killed.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:49 AM
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Brian Boru's Sword has been missing since 1960

In the 1960s Brian Boru's Sword was stolen from the Vernon family in Clontarf and hasn't been seen since.

“It was a magnificent sword. I have an Australian-made replica for the festivities which weighs five kilos and is 1.6 metres long. It is a hefty weapon. The original was always attributed to Brian Boru but it may have been made after his death. I am hoping that someone knows where it is.” As chairman of the Standing Council of Irish Chiefs, Lord Inchiquin says there is tremendous interest in roots and the 20 Irish clans involved in finding the missing Ancient Sword of Brian Boru's.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:55 AM
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The mystery of the Irish Crown Jewels and their where abouts...

Irish Historical Mysteries: A Centenary Report on the
Theft of the Irish Crown Jewels in 1907








Introduction
The theft of the Irish Crown Jewels by a person or persons unknown in 1907 is one of the most famous and puzzling mysteries of Irish history, and has been the subject of numerous books and articles. (1) The Jewels were worn during functions of the Order of St Patrick and were entrusted to the care of Ulster King of Arms, Ireland’s chief herald and genealogist. Many and various are the theories which have been advanced over the years to explain what happened to the Jewels, with allegations that they were stolen by insiders, or by Unionist conspirators eager to derail Home Rule, or by Republican plotters seeking to embarrass the British government. On the occasion of the hundredth anniversary of the issue of the report of an official commission of investigation into the loss of the Jewels, (2) it might be worthwhile to revisit the affair.
As an historian, genealogist and heraldist the present writer has taken upon himself the task of compiling this centenary report, and the following were set as the terms of reference:
(1) To examine as much as possible of the surviving documentary evidence relating to the theft of the Irish Crown Jewels in 1907.
(2) To review the proceedings of the Viceregal Commission of investigation into the circumstances of the theft of the Jewels which was published in 1908.
(3) To evaluate various theories advanced over the years as to who might have been responsible for the theft, and in the light of the available evidence to try and identify the most likely culprit or culprits.
The Theft of the Jewels
It should be pointed out firstly that the ‘Irish Crown Jewels’ were not the equivalent of the English Crown Jewels in the Tower of London, but were in fact the regalia or insignia of the Order of St Patrick. This was a chivalric order founded by the government in 1783, designed to be the Irish counterpart of the British Order of the Garter, and equally a source of honour and patronage. The first Grand Master was the Third Earl Temple, who was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland and the prime mover in founding the Order. The Jewels or regalia were presented to the Order by King William IV in 1831, and are believed to have been made up from diamonds belonging to Queen Charlotte. The Jewels were crafted by Rundell, Bridge and Company of London, and consisted of a Star and a Badge composed of rubies, emeralds and Brazilian diamonds, mounted in silver, which were to be worn by the Lord Lieutenant as Grand Master on formal occasions. The membership of the Order was composed of leading peers titled Knights Companions. The Ulster King of Arms, the state heraldic and genealogical officer in charge of the Office of Arms, was made responsible for registering the Order’s membership and caring for its insignia. (3)
The statutes or rules of the Order of St Patrick were revised in 1905, and it was ordered that the jewelled insignia of the Grand Master and the collars and badges of the members should be deposited in a steel safe in the strongroom of the Office of Arms. The Office of Arms was located in Dublin Castle, and in 1903 moved from the Bermingham Tower to the Bedford Tower. The serving Ulster King of Arms was Sir Arthur Vicars, who had been appointed in 1893. Other, largely honorary office-holders under Vicars were Pierce Gun Mahony, Cork Herald, Francis (Frank) Shackleton, Dublin Herald, and Francis Bennett Goldney, Athlone Pursuivant. Mahony was a nephew of Vicars, while Shackleton, the brother of the famous explorer Sir Ernest Shackleton, was a housemate of Vicars. After fitting out of the new premises in the Bedford Tower had been completed, it was found that the Ratner safe in which the Order’s insignia were to be kept was too large to fit through the door of the strongroom. By agreement with the Board of Works it was therefore decided to leave the safe in the Library until a more suitably-sized safe could be obtained, but this was never done. While seven latch keys to the door of the Office of Arms were held by Vicars and his staff, there were only two keys to the safe containing the insignia, both held by Vicars. (4)
The last occasion on which the Jewels were seen in the safe was on 11 June 1907, when Vicars showed them to John Crawford Hodgson, the librarian of the Duke of Northumberland. On the morning of Wednesday 3 July there was a strange occurrence, when Mrs Farrell the office cleaner found the entrance door unlocked, told William Stivey the messenger, who on informing Vicars received the rather offhand reply, ‘Is that so?’, or ‘Did she?’. On the morning of Saturday 6 July there was an even more alarming occurrence, when Mrs Farrell found the door of the strongroom ajar, and on being informed by Stivey, Vicars again replied casually, taking no further action.
At about 2.15pm on the same day, 6 July, Vicars gave Stivey the key of the safe and a box containing the collar of a deceased knight, asking him to deposit it in the safe. This was most unusual, as Stivey had never before held the safe key in his hand. Stivey found the safe door unlocked and immediately informed Vicars, who came and opened the safe to find that the Jewels, five Knights’ collars and some diamonds belonging to Vicars’s mother were all gone. The police were called, and in the subsequent investigation lock experts established that the safe lock had not been tampered with, but had been opened with a key. While Mahony was not in the Office of Arms from April until 4 July, except one day in May, Shackleton and Goldney appeared not to have visited the premises or indeed been in Ireland between 11 June and 6 July.
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