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  #41  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ancient Princess View Post
Royal House of Ard Righ King Flann Sinna of Meath, Royal House of Alpin...I do have permission to post this from Heir of MacKinnon.

There is a genealogy that has come to light that traces directly back to the Ard Righ King Flann Sinna of Meath's daughter Princess Spontana of Crimthann that married into the line of the Royal House of Alpin down through King Alpins second son Donald I of Alpin and continued down through his direct descendents of MacFhingon's. There is a site on ancestry.com called Family Legacy Copyrighted & Registered 2008-2021 All Rights Reserved and a site on myspace called UNITE THE CLANS Deborahs Destiny that was put together by the direct heir of these lines. The detailed genealogy is on both of these sites. The genealogy will be presented to the Lord Lyon Courts in Edinburgh and the Chief Herald in Ireland for examination and approvel. Much attention was paid to finding out if there were other Clan lines that could claim this and from the research of their own proven genealogy's verified by each Chief of the differant Clans (both Irish & Scottish) no one came close to the current heir of MacFhingon. The MacFhingon name would be known today as MacKinnon. The Current Chief of MacKinnon is Madame Anne Gunheild of Antigua Mackinnons and is of a younger indirect line. The elder line however, is the Kilmorie/Mishnish line of MacKinnons and the heir is the owner of the above sites on ancestry and myspace. It will be interesting to see what will happen. Other royal lines came into the Royal House of Alpin, Alpins wife was the direct descendent of King Locene MacFhingon of Picts 645 A.D., Mary Haakonsdatter of Norway (Daughter of King Haakon IV of Norway) married Findanus MacFhingon/MacKinnon Great Elder Grandson of King Donald I of Alpin, MacFhingon's date back to Conn of One Hundred Battles and have a connection to St Columbas father and mother. The genealogy I will post here for you to examine for yourself. It is backed up by Historic Documentation as well as Legal Proofs, Y-DNA Study Markers, Verified by Genealogist and Attorney of the family to be correct and true. It is a very clean line of descent and the heir is the eldest in line left. That is what prompted the journey to have this line examined. It is a line that was around in the time of the Pictish Kings and it continued to King Alpin second son King Donald I of Alpin. It stayed within direct biological elder males till the current heir. Kenneth I of Alpins line stopped at Lulach that was not of original Alpin blood. MacKinnons , however continued silently through the years.

THE MS GAELIC 1467, STATES, FINGUINE[MACKINNON] AS THE SON OF CORMAC SON OF ABERTACH SON OF MUREDACH SON OF FERCHAR OG SON OF KING MACBETH[ THORFINN THE MIGHTY]. ABERTACH HELD BY THE SWORD, MULL, TIREE & IONA[HY]. ALSO, CORMAC FILLI[SON OF] MACBETH, WAS A WITNESS TO MANY CHARTERS IN THE EARLY 12TH CENTURY SCOTLAND! THE ROYAL FAMILY POSSESED DUNKELD, APPLECROSS, IONA, & ALSO TIREE WITH BENEDICTINE ABBOTS FROM 1204-1493! THE MACKINNONS BELONG TO THE HOUSE OF LORNE, VIA MACBETH, YES THE MACBETH OF SHAKESPEARE! IT IS WRITTEN IN THE STONES OF IONA, WHERE THE LORDS OF THE ISLES ARE BURRIED, KING ARTHUR ETC
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  #42  
Old 07-02-2011, 01:40 AM
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Welcome to the Forums Fingone,
Could I just point out that typing a post in all upper case makes it very difficult to read due to the lack of variation. As a result, many members will simply pass it over, which of course is the opposite result to that you intended.

All upper case is also regarded as bad internet etiquette as it is equated with "shouting" or attention-seeking. A further downside to the use of all upper-case is that the post cannot be reformatted (as for example inserting paragraph breaks), it must be retyped in full.
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  #43  
Old 07-02-2011, 09:54 AM
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I think this line is based on a different, "Fingone"...

To the gentlemen that states, "Fingone is son of Cormac", this is not the same person as I have listed. Yes Fingone (Fhingone) is from the Royal House of Lorn and the Royal House of Alpin. My information is from a written and recorded genealogy and I know the name, "Fingone" shows up in other places;however, the line of her MacKinnons date back further than what you have posted and they are not direct relations to MacBeth, so I am unsure how to respond to your version? There is Memoirs that also back Ardras genealogy. Best Regards, Ancient Princess
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2011, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Ancient Princess View Post
To the gentlemen that states, "Fingone is son of Cormac", this is not the same person as I have listed. Yes Fingone (Fhingone) is from the Royal House of Lorn and the Royal House of Alpin. My information is from a written and recorded genealogy and I know the name, "Fingone" shows up in other places;however, the line of her MacKinnons date back further than what you have posted and they are not direct relations to MacBeth, so I am unsure how to respond to your version? There is Memoirs that also back Ardras genealogy. Best Regards, Ancient Princess
I agree with Fingone. The Mackinnon's traditional descent in the male line from Alpin has been discredited by ancient Gaelic manuscripts found by Professor Skene in the 19th century. These are the oldest surviving authentic records of the High Kings of the Scots. The Mackinnons are from the House of Lorn- or more correctly Labhran- as given by Abbot Tighernac ca 1070. The Mackinnons can only claim descent in the female line from King Alpin. The Lorn descent is supported by the tombstones found on Iona- as correctly stated by Fingone. We are male-line cousins of MacBeth. I would also like to point out that the House of Alpin- more correctly the Cinel nGabran died out on the male line in 1034 which is why MacBeth claimed the Scots Throne- being the senior survivng male line representative of the original Gaelic royal clan.

As for the Mackinnon Chiefship- as far as I know, Donald of Antigua was a younger son of the 28th Chief's first marriage. If this is not the case, then the Lyon Court will have to rule on the Mackinnon Succession. The Lord Lyon may well rule in favour of the Mishinish Mackinnons. I am a cousin of the Mishinish Mackinnons from a junior line- the Mackinnons of Kyle who descend from Iain Og, second son of the 25th Chief. We held the Kyle apanage including Kyleakin and the Castle of Dun-Hakon. This estate was sold in 1751 to pay off debts incurred by the Mackinnons during the Jacobite Rebellions. I would like to see the Mackinnon Chiefship remain within the male line- whether it goes to the Mishinish family, or another cadet branch.

The male line of the MacGregor Chiefs didnot die out, only the Glen Orchy and Glen Strae families. The Glen Orchy line of Chiefs died out in 1519, the Glen Strae line of Chiefs died out in about 1714. The present chief is descended from Iain of Brackley. His family now the Glen Carnaig line, is the senior survivng line descended from the ancient Glen Orchy chiefs.

The Mackinnons, MacGregors, and Mackays share the DalRiada royal DNA signature. The Chief of Clan Morgann (Mackay), claims descent in the male line from King MacBeth's uncle, Prince Donald of Moray. From DNA it is not yet clear whether the Mackinnons, or the Mackay & MacGregor chiefs are the senior surviving representaives of the original Gaelic royal house of Scotland. It will take time to establish the correct seniority. In any case, the Gaelic monarchy was elective within the Dal-Riada royal clan - the Law of Primogeniture never applied to the ancient Scottish royal succession. A candidate for the Scots Throne had to be a son, grandson, or great-grandson of of King of Scots in the dynastic male line.
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2011, 03:37 AM
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I understand that Ireland had its regional monarchies until they were overthrown by the king of England.
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  #46  
Old 07-12-2011, 04:59 AM
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I understand that Ireland had its regional monarchies until they were overthrown by the king of England.
Hi Lenora. The Irish provincial monarchies became subject to the kings of England, after the Treaty of Windsor in 1175. The Irish High King was effectively replaced by the king of England who bore the title Lord Paramount of Ireland. The Irish provincial kings were allowed to continue to reign more or less as they did before. King Richard II of England tried to impose more direct rule in Ireland, however he was himself deposed in England in 1399. It was only under the Tudors that the English monarchs sought to impose more direct rule on the Irish. The Tudor King, Henry VIII took the Title King of Ireland, while his daughter Queen, Elizabeth I imposed the Anglican faith on Ireland, and the Irish provincial kings fled to Catholic Europe- mainly Spain & Portugal. This event was known as "the Flight of the Geese". They were replaced by English or Anglo-Irish governors who controlled counties rather than the original provincial kingdoms which were dismantled. When the Irish Republic was established in 1949, the Irish sate re-established the old provincial entities, though county government is still the main form of local government in Ireland. The republican government also recognized the Irish provincial dynasties granting the the dignity of "Serene Highness" to the heads of these families. This recognition was however withdrawn after the MacCarthy Mor scandal in the 1990s- When Terence Francis McCarthy, Prince of Kerry, "Head of the Eoghancht dynasty" was exposed as a fraud. There is now an ongoing discussion as to whether the Irish state will once again restore recognition to the other royal dynasties whose claims are genuine. I have read that there is a campaign on the go to have Sir Connor O'Brien, Prince of Thomond elected President of Ireland. The Irish no longer want a politician in that post. Sir Connor is descended from King Brian Boruma, High King of Ireland, and King of Munster. He was previously asked by Irish royalists to be a candidate for High King of Ireland, but tactfully declined this royalist post.
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  #47  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:26 AM
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I think it would be of interest to Eire to develop this idea, especially for tourism, history etc.
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  #48  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:45 AM
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Hi Lenora. The Irish provincial monarchies became subject to the kings of England, after the Treaty of Windsor in 1175...
Most impressive Domhangairt!!

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  #49  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:47 AM
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I understand that Ireland had its regional monarchies until they were overthrown by the king of England.
The Normans started that process,the Last High King of Ireland was Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair/Rory O'Connor

Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #50  
Old 07-12-2011, 09:45 AM
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I understand that Ireland had its regional monarchies until they were overthrown by the king of England.
Hi Lenora. My previous post today doesn't seem to have been successfully received by the s.p. I will summarize the current status of the Irish provincial dynasties as at Abandonment of Recognition in 2003. This legal decision by the Irish Government followed the McCarthy Mor scandal- Terence McCarthy, Prince of Desmond ("Tadgh V"), was exposed as a fraud. The Abandonment is currently being reviewed. I strongly recommend you check out James Francom's excellent post no. 17 in this thread. The Irish Provincial princes in 2003 were as follows:

1. ULSTER: (a) HSH Hugo Ricciardi O'Neill of Clannaboy, Prince of Tyrone,
Count of Clannaboy (Portugal);
(b) Don Carlos O'Neill Mor, Prince of Ulster,
12th Marques de la Granja (Spain) (Recog. pending 2003);

2. CONNAUGHT: HSH Desmond O'Connor Don, Prince of Connaught;

3. LEINSTER: HSH William Butler McMurrough-Kavanagh, Prince of Leinster;

4. MUNSTER: (a) Vacant. Previously Terence McCarthy Mor,
Prince of Desmond (South Munster),
abdicated after scandal in 1999;
(b) HSH Sir Connor O'Brien of Clare, Prince of Thomond
(North Munster), 18th Baron of Inchiquin (U.K.)

Irish Gaelic titles and chiefships are strictly heritable through the agnatic- or male line. No females, or males born in the female line may claim these titles, or chiefships. The agnatic principle is more strictly applied in Ireland than in any other European state. The above princes are all descended in one or other male line from the provincial kings who fled Ireland during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I 1558 - 1603. Many are also descended from the High kings of Ireland.

HSH Desmond O'Connor Don (Deasmunhain Ua Conchobhair Donn) succeeded his father Dennis in 2000. At the time of Dennis' death, the Irish Times described Dennis as "the most senior claimant to the Irish Throne if one were proposed". Dennis' ancestor was King Ruaridh Ua Conchobhair, High King of Ireland and King of Connaught, who signed the Treaty of Windsor in 1175, granting the English king overlordship of Ireland in exchange for English recognition of the Irish provincial kingships. Ruaridh was not in a military position to defy the English king. This act lead to the gradual assimilation of Ireland by the English kings which was only ended by the establishment of the Irish Free State in 1923.

In Scotland, the agnatic or Irish law was strictly applied by the Scottish Gaelic royal house in Dal-Riada till 847, then over the whole of united Scotland from 847 - 1034. King Malcolm II sought to change this law, designating his daughter's son, Donncaidh (Shakespeare's King Duncan) as his heir. Professor Skene claimed that the Norwegians actually imposed Duncan on the Scots. Duncan was crowned at the Abbey of Scone in 1034, but MacBeth successfully contested Duncan's right to the Throne, becoming king after slaying Duncan in 1040. MacBeth claimed the Scots Throne through the agnatic, or male line. Macbeth reigned successfully for 17 years. However, the English King, Edward "the Confessor', weary of MacBeth's cosy relationship with the Norwegians, sent a mercenary army of 10,000 men into Scotland in 1057. This army successfully defeated and killed MacBeth, and his successor, Lulach in eight months. King Duncan's family which supported the English alliance was then restored to the Scots Throne. From then on, cognatic (males and females) succession was allowed in Scotland with males prevailing over females.

Today, women can claim Scottish clan chiefships through the male line, and men can claim through the female line IF there is no surviving male-line claimant who counter-claims. Recently in 2004, Richard Oliphant successfully counter-claimed the Oliphant chiefship in the Lyon Court which ruled in his favour because he could claim in the male line- while the popular claimant could only claim in through the female line. Some Scottish titles are exclusively heritable through the uterine (female) line- Lady Saltoun, etc. This is a hangover from Pictish times. The Pictish High Kingship was exclusively claimable through the uterine, or female line. In Ireland, no woman can claim an Irish clan chiefship.

The British royal house of Windsor descends in the cognatic or female line from the Dal-Riada royal clan - the original Gaelic Scottish royal house. The most senior surviving agnatic or male-line representative of the Dal-Riada family would appear to be Hugh Mackay, 14th Lord Reay of Reay, 27th Chief of Clan Morgann, or Mackay. His famlly claims descent in the male line from King MacBeth's uncle, Prince Domnall mac Ruaridh of Moray. Lord Mackay's Y-DNA has not yet been tested, but DNA samples from other Mackays of Strathnaver match the modal DNA signature of the Dal-Riada royal clan.
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  #51  
Old 07-14-2011, 01:33 PM
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This is the current Y-DNA studie markers on Ardra Raye McKinnons line to support genealogy...

DNA Result originating from High King Colla of Ireland,King Fergus of Alba, line of Sol Alpin and MacKinnon

A Genetic study was done for this line of MacKinnons of Skye show a DNA match:
Group I Origins Argyle DNA test 37 or 43 Markers DYS391=10, and DYS389-2=30 DNA. Y Chromosome DNA of MacKinnon are from Skye and have the match 31/35 Markers back to High King Colla of Ireland and there are only 6 expected in 1500 years, 37/43 Markers back to King Alpin of Dalraida. Last name: MacFhingone variant spelling is MacKinnon, Mckinnon,MacFinnon,MacIonmhuiun, MacInnon. Most distant known Paternal Ancestor in the Direct Male Line is: High King Colla of Ireland, King Fergus of Dalraida, High King Locene MacFhingone of Picts, King Alpin of Kintyre.
Closet Male unbroken line that is traced back to King Alpin (according to the genealogy) is of my Grandfather William Clarence of Mishnish MacKinnon. And from him I traced down to my mother Ardra Raye of Mishnish McKinnon (Maternal)
High King Colla of Ireland is included in this DNA study. My lineage is from the eldest son (unbroken).
The foundation of this line establishing the Scottish Kingdom in 460 AD and High King Colla is the GGG Grandson of (in the eldest line) of Conn of the Hundred Battles High King of all Ireland starting around 150 AD.
Additional information about Paternal line: My Grandfather William Clarence of Mishnish MacKinnons is in Direct Descent of the Eldest Line of Skye MacKinnons and we know now has a very strong line back to the Original High Kings of Ireland, Scotland and Pictavia through his genealogy. There has been research of other lines and found MacAulays not to be obvious Genetic link and actually came in much later and the name MacAulay is a Historic Error for MacOnlay which is a English rendition of MacDonnalebhe or MacLay that came in the 16th Century. The Mac Alpines are not a true Clan and have no lands nor documentation and are of a complilation of scattered distant clans not related to King Alpin. MacQuarries are the only ones related to MacKinnons,and MacNabbs relation is to the Abbot of Glendochart 1306
Agnate is a person (son or daughter) related to a patrilineal descent provided the whole ancestry went through only males. The Y Chromosome (Y-DNA) is Paternally (through elder males) Inherited. The Royal line is a Direct Paternal (male) Unbroken line making it a very strong claim. According to the Scottish Law of the Lord Lyon Courts , the Brehnan Law of Irelands Chief Herald and the old laws of Pictish Kings (which is a differant set of laws) going through the matriarch line of Royal Blood.
This will be presented to The Honorable Lord Lyon Courts of Edinburgh, The Honorable Standing Council of Scottish Highland Chiefs, The Honorable Chief Herald of Ireland and Honorable Council of Irish Chiefs for their examination and approval. So for now it is in the beginning stages. There has to be a clean documented genealogy along with legal certificates of birth, death, marriage, etc.
This will take some time, However; in the end it will be worth the fight. I have been told by many Clans (Irish and Scottish) to continue this quest because from what they had seen, no one could deny this genealogy as being the cleanest and oldest known.
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  #52  
Old 07-14-2011, 01:58 PM
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This is the information about the Original Clans and how far back they go and to whom. You shall see why the genealogy of Ardra Raye McKinnon has become so important. I invite you to go to each Chiefs site on the internet and investigate for yourselves where there lines stopped. Without a doubt the line of Kilmorie Mishnish line that Ardra is from is the cleanest I have seen and it dates back to not only the original Alpin Kings but it also has many Royal lines that came into it such as the original Pictish High Kings it also dates back to the original Ard Righ Kings of Ireland.

Sliochd Fhinnon

According to The Clans of the Scottish Highlands The Costumes of the Clans by R.R. McIan written in 1820. This book was dedicated to Queen Victoria. Clan Fhinnon/ MacKinnon/MacFhingone, MacInnon is the only Elder line of the Alpin branch of the tree to date. The line has a detailed proven genealogy, historic documentation, DNA Studies that proves once and for all the exact line of the Ancient High Kings of all Ireland, Ancient High Kings of Pictavia, Ancient Kings of Alba and Scotland before any other Clan. Related only to MacQuarries (which is from Doungallus second son) and MacGregors marrying into Mackinnons much later and seem to be related to Giric a Gael prisioner (BBC Historian and Genealogist History of Scotland Neil Oliver has verified this) that made friends with King Aed and later killed him. It turns out he was the stepson of King Kenneth I of Alpins daughter Malvina and this is whom the MacGregors are connected to and not to the Royal line of Alpin at all as originally thought. Giric (not to be confused with Girig King Donald I of Alpins son) claimed himself King although he had no Royal blood. Clan Grant and MacNabbs coming in much later than MacGregors, MacAulays and MacPhees are not related to the Alpin line nor are they related to Mackinnons by proof of DNA studies and their own histories found on thier Offical Clan websites and verified by their Clan Chiefs. The Only Clan that came close to us in relation is the MacQaurries coming in at the mid 900's and in 1671 when a deed was drawn up at Kilmorie between Lachlan MacFhingone giving James MacGregor of that Ilk recognition as a relation acknowledgeing them as marrying into MacKinnon Clan later and then passed to Malcolm MacGregors Elder line. Here is how all the Original Clans are arranged alphabetically and you will see the dates on all the origins of these clans and whom they are related to:
Clan Buchanan-1240 Gillebrid Earl of Lennox
Clan Cameron-1590 Donald Du
Clan Campbell of Argyle-1266 Gilliespuig Cambel
Clan Campbell of Breadalbane-1300 Sir Collin thrid son of Duncan Campbell
Clan Chisholm-1290 Guthred Thane of Caithness
Clan Colquhons-1329 Conoch
Clan Cummin-1329 of Norman Descent
Clan Davidson-1296 Lachlan Davidson
Clan Drummond-1060 Doncha Drumanach
Clan Farquharson-1670 Findlay Mor Farquharson
Clan Ferguson- 1364 Alexander Ferguson
Clan Forbes- 1442 Lord Forbes
Clan Fraser-1290 Sir Andrew Fraser
Clan Gordon- 1280 Gordon of Berthwithshire
Clan Graeme-1128 William de Graeme of French descent
Clan Grant- 1160 Malcolm the second son of Gregor of the MacGregors. This is a Clan that is related to MacKinnon but comes in later.
Clan Grants of Glenmoriston-1509 John Grant of Glenmoriston
Clan Gunns- 1237 Gunn second son of Ollav the Black and of Norweigen descent
Clan Kennedy- 1290 Black Headed Roland Kennedy
Clan Lamond-1295 Lauman
Clan Logan-1316 John Logan
Clan MacAllister-1263 Angus Mor MacAllister
Clan MacArthur-1249 Branch of Clan Campbell
Clan MacAulay-1390 Aulay brother of Madduin and not related to MacKinnons
Clan MacBeans-1745 Branch of Clan Cameron
Clan MacColl-1338 Branch of MacDonalds
Clan MacCruimins-1600 Proffessional attendant of MacLeod Chief
Clan MacDonlad of Clan Ranald-1337 John MacDonald
Clan MacDonald of Keppach-1337 John MacDonald
Clan MacDonald of Glencoe-1346 Ian Fraoch MacDonald
Clan MacDonald-1338 Donald MacDonald
Clan MacDonnell of Glengarry-1337 Donald of Glengarry
Clan MacDuff- 1056 MacDuff Thane of Fife
Clan MacDugals-1290 Dungal of Somerland
Clan MacDugal-1300 Donalla
Clan MacGillivary-1263 Gabria
Clan MacGregor- Married into Mackinnons much later in 1270's and that is how the connection arose. MacGregors are related to a Gael named Giric (not Girig which is Donald I of Alpins son) which was a (step son) to Malvina daughter of King Kenneth I of Alpin making Giric of Gael no blood relation to the Alpin line.
Clan MacInnes-1645 Hereditary Bowmen to MacKinnon Chiefs and not blood related
Clan MacIntire-1338 Branch of MacDonald
Clan MacIntoshes-1291 son of Thane of Fife
Clan MacIvors-1153 Ivor of Duncan
Clan MacKay- 1325 Morgan of Norway and of Norweigen descent
Clan MacKenzie-1225 Colin Fitzgerald
CLAN MACKINNON- 645 King Locene MacFhingon of Picts, King Alpins second son King Donald I of Alpin (however Kenneths line married into Donalds line later. King Kenneth was they only brother to King Donald I of Alpin) straight down with elder males of MacKinnon/MacFhingon till 1937 when Ardra was born. The Elder Royal Line left is the Kilmorie Mishnish McKinnon Line and the heir is Ardra Raye McKinnon who is alive today in the Pacific Northwest of the United States.
Clan MacLachland of Lochaban-1745 MacLachland
Clan MacLaurin-1781 Laurin of Argyle
Clan MacLean-1255 Gillean MacGillean
Clan MacLennan-1600 Gillie Inain
Clan MacLeod-1300 Torcul of MacLeod
Clan MacMillans-1249 Brother of Chief of the Buchanans
Clan MacNabbs-1306 Abbot of Glendochart
Clan MacNachtans-1267 Gilliechroid MacNachtans
Clan MacNicol-1400 MacGrigul
Clan MacNeil-1400 MacNeils of Barra and is no way related to nor any written record found connecting them to O'Niels of Ireland. Found evidence connecting the current Chief to a third younger line and not the elder line of Argyle which died out. The Argyle line was from Doungallus of Alpins forth youngest son but like I have said this line died out and are not of a clean line nor the elder line.
Clan MacPharlan-1329 Earls of Lennox
Clan MacPhee-1772 Clan Donald of Kintyre
Clan MacPhersons-1153 Catti of Germany or Gauls Murdoch the Elder and is a Germanic Tribe
Clan MacQuarries-950 related to Mackinnons but it is through 2nd son Quarrie of Doungallus as 1rst son was Findanus MacKinnon.
Clan MacRaes-1363 are a branch of MacKenzies
Clan Mathesons-1263 Chief Coinneach
Clan Menzies-1100 Robert Menzies
Clan Munroe-1490 Donald o'Ceann
Clan Murray-1220 de Moravia from France & Lords of Dunmore
Clan Ogilvies-1120 Gillchroid of Angus
Clan Robertson-1360 Duncan Robertson
Clan Roses-1400 Family from Kilravock
Clan Ross-1235 Earl of Ross
Clan Shaw-1056 Related to MacDuff
Clan Sinclair-1513 Dugald of France Comte de Saint Claire
Clan Skene-1360 Branch of the Clan robertson
Clan Stewart/Stuart 1043 are of a Germanic Tribe and have a tie to France and after Bancho Thane of Lochaber killed MacBeth they came into the Kingship.
Clan Sutherland-1197 Related to Catti of Germany or Chattens which is also from a Germanic Tribe coming from Germany in 1197
Clan Urquhart-1306-William Urquhart of Cromartie

For the rest of the Clans they all came in much later. This is a list of the ORIGINAL CLANS. The only ones that can claim Alpin stock are MacKinnon being the most Ancient and the Great MacQuarries from the second son of Doungallus.
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  #53  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:21 PM
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This is just a list of Monarchs of Scotland down to MacBeth, now if we all remember Lulach was a stepson to MacBeth. MacBeth was from the bloodline of King Kenneth I of Alpin. Lulach did not carry the Alpin Bloodline down through his descendents. The early Scottish Monarchs
Kenneth I (r. 843-858)
Donald I (r. 858-862)
Constantine I (r. 862-877)
Aed (r. 877-878)
Giric (r. 878-889)
Donald II (r. 889-900)
Constantine II (r. 900-943)
Malcolm I (r.943-954)
Indulf (r. 954-962)
Dubh or Duff (r. 962-966)
Culen (r. 966-971)
Kenneth II (r. 971-995)
Constantine III (r. 995-997)
Kenneth III (r. 971-997)
Malcolm II (r. 1005-1034)
Duncan I (r. 1034-1040)
Macbeth (r. 1040-1057
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:07 PM
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A Forced Marriage.

Acts of Union 1707

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Acts of Union were two Parliamentary Acts passed in 1706 by the Parliament of England, and in 1707 by the Parliament of Scotland, which put into effect the terms of the Treaty of Union that had been agreed on 22 July 1706, following negotiation between commissioners representing the parliaments of the two countries. The Acts joined the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland (previously separate states, with separate legislatures but with the same monarch) into a single, united kingdom named "Great Britain".[1]
The two countries had shared a monarch since the Union of the Crowns in 1603, when King James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne from his double first cousin twice removed, Queen Elizabeth I. Although described as a Union of Crowns, until 1707 there were in fact two separate Crowns resting on the same head (as opposed to the implied creation of a single Crown and a single Kingdom, exemplified by the later Kingdom of Great Britain) . There had been three attempts in 1606, 1667, and 1689 to unite the two countries by Acts of Parliament, but it was not until the early 18th century that the idea had the will of both political establishments behind them, albeit for rather different reasons.
The Acts took effect on 1 May 1707. On this date, the Scottish Parliament and the English Parliament united to form the Parliament of Great Britain, based in the Palace of Westminster in London, the home of the English Parliament.[2] Hence, the Acts are referred to as the Union of the Parliaments. Several centuries before the eventual union, and English attempts to take over Scotland by military force in the late 13th and early 14th centuries were ultimately unsuccessful (see the Wars of Scottish Independence). They remained two separate states until 1 May 1707



Scottish perspective

In Scotland, it was claimed that union would enable Scotland to recover from the financial disaster wrought by the Darien scheme through English assistance and the lifting of measures put in place through the Alien Act to force the Scottish Parliament into compliance with the Act of Settlement.[20]
The ultimate securing of the treaty in the unicameral Scottish Parliament is attributed by some to the weakness and lack of cohesion between the various opposition groups in the House, rather than to the strength of pro-incorporationists. The combined votes of the Court party with a majority of the Squadrone Volante were sufficient to ensure the final passage of the treaty through the House.
Personal financial interests were also allegedly involved. Many Commissioners had invested heavily in the Darien Scheme and they believed that they would receive compensation for their losses; Article 15, the Equivalent granted £398,085 10s sterling to Scotland to offset future liability towards the English national debt. In essence, it was also used as a means of compensation for investors in the Darien Scheme.
Even more direct bribery was also said to be a factor.[21] £20,000 (£240,000 Scots) was dispatched to Scotland for distribution by the Earl of Glasgow. James Douglas, 2nd Duke of Queensberry, the Queen's Commissioner in Parliament, received £12,325, the majority of the funding. (Some contend that all of this money was properly accounted for as compensation for loss of office, pensions and so forth not outwith the usual run of government. At least four payments were made to people who were not even members of the Scottish Parliament.) Robert Burns referred to this:
We were bought and sold for English Gold,Sic a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation.Some of the money was used to hire spies, such as Daniel Defoe; his first reports were of vivid descriptions of violent demonstrations against the Union. "A Scots rabble is the worst of its kind," he reported, "for every Scot in favour there is 99 against". Years later John Clerk of Penicuik, originally a leading Unionist, wrote in his memoirs that,
(Defoe) was a spy among us, but not known as such, otherwise the Mob of Edinburgh would pull him to pieces.Defoe recalls that he was hired by Robert Harley.
The Treaty could be considered unpopular in Scotland: Sir George Lockhart of Carnwath, the only member of the Scottish negotiating team against union, noted that "The whole nation appears against the Union" and even Sir John Clerk of Penicuik, an ardent pro-unionist and Union negotiator, observed that the treaty was "contrary to the inclinations of at least three-fourths of the Kingdom". Public opinion against the Treaty as it passed through the Scottish Parliament was voiced through petitions from shires, burghs, presbyteries and parishes. The Convention of Royal Burghs also petitioned against the Union and not one petition in favour of an incorporating union was received by Parliament. On the day the treaty was signed, the carilloner in St Giles Cathedral, Edinburgh, rang the bells in the tune Why should I be so sad on my wedding day?[22] There were also massive protests in Edinburgh and several other Scottish burghs on the day it was passed by Parliament, as threats of widespread civil unrest resulted in Parliament imposing martial law.
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:20 PM
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The Mighty Irish and their history of Monarchy goes back to a very early time. This is some of the differant Kings and their locations. The Ard Righ Kings served as the High Kings over all Kingdoms in Ireland and Albannia Pict (Dal Raida Pict)
Description




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A monarchical polity has existed in Ireland during three periods of its history, finally ending in 1801. The designation King of Ireland and Queen (regnant) of Ireland was used during these periods. Since 1949, the only part of Ireland that retains a monarchical system is Northern Ireland (as part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).
Gaelic Kings and Kingdoms

Gaelic Ireland consisted of as few as five and as many as nine main kingdoms, subdivided into dozens of smaller kingdoms. The primary kingdoms were Connacht, Ailech, Airgíalla, Ulster, Mide, Leinster, Osraige, Munster and Thomond. Until the end of Gaelic Ireland they continued to fluctuate, expand and contract in size, as well as dissolving entirely or being amalgamated into new entities. The role of High King of Ireland was primarily titular and rarely (if ever) absolute.
The names of Connacht, Ulster, Leinster and Munster are still in use, now applied to the four modern provinces of Ireland. The following is a list of the main Irish kingdoms and their kings.
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:32 PM
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Ancient Princess, this is a wonderful account of the Irish Royalty !

Many thanks for all this work !

Recently I saw a series of BBC TV programmes about this topic, by Fergal Keane.

I think the visit of HM to Mary MacAleese and the Taoiseach will have spurred on more people to learn about Irish history.
I'm only just begining :-)

Thanks again!
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:16 PM
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Conn of the Hundred Battles

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Conn Cétchathach ("of the Hundred Battles", pron, son of Fedlimid Rechtmar, was, according to medieval Irish legend and historical tradition, a High King of Ireland, and the ancestor of the Connachta, and, through his descendant Nial of the Nine Hostages and the royal line of St Columba and their connection to MacKinnons passing to Alpins dynasty in Scotland, which dominated Ireland in the early middle ages, and their descendants, including Scottish clans such as the Clan MacKinnon.
Contents

Literary tradition

Early life and accession

The Annals of the Four Masters says that five roads to Tara, which had never been seen before, were discovered on the night of Conn's birth.[1] According to the Lebor Gabála Érenn, he took power after killing his predecessor Cathair Mór.[2] In other sources his predecessor is Dáire Doimthech.[3] The Lia Fáil, the coronation stone at Tara which was said to roar when the rightful king stood on it, roared under Conn for the first time since Cúchulainn split it with his sword when it failed to roar for Lugaid Riab nDerg.[4] In the saga Baile in Scáil ("The Phantom's Ecstatic Vision"), Conn treads on the stone by accident while walking the ramparts of Tara, implying that the stone had been lost and half-buried since Cúchulainn's time. A druid explains the meaning of the stone, and says the number of cries the stone made is the number of kings who will follow Conn, but he is not the man to name them. A magical mist arises, and a horseman approaches who throws three spears towards Conn, then asks him and the druid to follow him to his house, which stands on a plain by a golden tree. They enter, and are welcomed by a woman in a gold crown. First they see a silver vat, bound with gold hoops, full of red ale, and a golden cup and serving spoon. Then they see a phantom, a tall beautiful man, on a throne, who introduces himself as Lugh. The woman is the sovereignty of Ireland, and she serves Conn a meal consisting of an ox's rib 24 feet (7.3 m) long, and a boar's rib. When she serves drinks, she asks "To whom shall this cup be given?", and Lugh recites a poem which tells Conn how many years he will reign, and the names of the kings who will follow him. Then they enter Lugh's shadow, and the house disappears, but the cup and serving spoon remain. An earlier text, Baile Chuinn Cétchathaigh (The Ecstatic Vision of Conn of the Hundred Battles") gives a poetic list of kings, many of which are recognisable from the traditional List of High Kings of Ireland.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:45 PM
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The Honorable Chiefs of Ireland:


IRISH CHIEFS OF THE NAME AND CLAN CHIEFTAINS



Clann O DubhGhaill/Clan Doyle presents the following information for the interest (and education) of all who have an Irish background.
Since the establishment of the Clans of Ireland Office there are now about 150 Clans registered and a number of these Clans mistakenly use incorrect pre-nominals (which are in actuality ancient titles) when appointing their Clan Chieftains. The list that appears below is acknowledged by the Irish Government, through the Office of the Chief Herald, as being the genealogically pre-eminent representatives of the ancient Gaelic families and their titles. Only these Irish aristocrats may use the ancient Gaelic form of address of 'The', which is equivalent to the European Princely title of 'His Serene Highness'.
A much more recent acknowledgment which is recognized by the Clans of Ireland Office is that of 'Hon.Clan Chieftain', or 'Hon.Chief of Clan Such and Such' in written correspondence. These two forms of address can be used by the appointed head of the reformed Irish Clans.
Please note: It is considered bad form by the standing Council of Irish Chiefs for Clan Chieftains of reformed Clans to use or be addressed as 'The'. These forms of address are ancient titles which are particular to the aristocracy of Ireland and are in fact hereditary to the aristocrats listed below. One should also be made aware of the fact that at any time in the future an individual may through genealogical research establish his proof of direct lineage, and upon being verified by the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland, as a blood chief and claim his hereditary title of Chief of the Name.
ANCIENT TITLE
The O Conor Don
The O Neill of Clannaboy
The MacCarthy Mor, Prince of Desmond
MacMurrough Kavanagh
The Fox
MacDermot, Prince of Coolavin
McGillycuddy of the Reeks
Maguire of Fermanagh
The O Brien
The O Callaghan
The O Donnell of Tirconnell
The O Donovan
The O Donoghue of the Glens
The O Grady of Kilballyowen
The O Kelly of Gallagh and Tycooly
The O Long of Garrenelongy
The O Morchoe
The O Ruairc of Breifne
The O Toole
The O Carroll
The McDonnell of the Glens
INCUMBENT
Desmond O Conor
Hugo O Neill
Vacant
William Butler Kavanagh
John Fox
Niall MacDermott
Richard McGillycuddy
Terence Maguire
Conor O Brien
Juan O Callaghan
Aodh O Donnell
Daniel O Donovan
Geoffrey O Donoghue
Gerald O Grady
Walter O Kelly
Denis Long
David O Morchoe
Philip O Rorke
Vacant
Frederick O'Carroll
Randal McDonnell
THE STANDING COUNCIL OF IRISH CHIEFS



On the 5th October, 1991 sixteen of the nineteen (now 20) bloodline Chiefs, some of whom travelled from various parts of Europe, were received at Aras an Uachtarain by the President of Ireland, Mrs Mary Robinson.
This historic occasion was the first time in modern history, that the bloodline chieftains of Ireland had gathered in Dublin to form a new Council of Irish Chiefs.
Indeed, it is believed to have been the first ever meeting of all the Irish chiefs whose history stretches back as far as the third and fourth centuries. The only other meeting of this kind ever to have taken place was before the Battle of Kinsale in 1603 when a large group of Irish Chiefs met.
The meeting was a true clash of symbolism as Mrs. Robinson, the elected head of the country who is often perceived as the closest thing to Irish royalty, was, in fact, meeting the true descendants of the ancient Irish aristocracy.
Following the "feudal" gathering of the Aras, instead of heading to the ruins of their ancient castle homes which are spotted around the country, the chieftains travelled to the more comfortable surroundings of Jury's Hotel where they set up the Council.
The Maguire of Fermanagh, retired accountant Terence Maguire, was elected chairman of the Irish Chiefs Council for a three year period while O'Conor Don of Roscommon, retired businessman Denis O'Conor was elected deputy-chairman.
According to the Hon.Clan Chieftain of the O'Connor Kerry Clan, Rory O'Connor, the formation of the council marks one of the most significant developments in the new Clans of Ireland Movement which he has led for the past three years.
He said that the Council of Irish Chiefs would not only be a tremendous boost for the actual clan revival movement itself, but also for both Irish culture and tourism.
"It's a new fillip to the interest of Irish heritage now mounting through the world where fifty million Irish dwell", he said. "The Chiefs represent the true aristocracy of ancient Ireland, and will lead to other ancient clans to search for their bloodline chieftains".
The Clann O DubhGhaill/Clan Doyle are relatively "recent" arrivals in Ireland ... being Danish Vikings who have "only" been in Ireland for about the last 1,000 years.
The Patron of the Clann O DubhGhaill/Clan Doyle is the Royal O Conor Don, the Prince of Connaught, the most senior of all the hereditary Great Chiefs of Ireland, and the direct descendant of the last High King of all Ireland. The Chieftain of the Clann O DubhGhaill/Clan Doyle pays tribute to the O Conor Don each year by the service of a spur (which is the traditional symbol of feudal military service).
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:07 PM
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The Declaration of Arbroath 1320 — English Translation

To the most Holy Father and Lord in Christ, the Lord John, by divine providence Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Roman and Universal Church, his humble and devout sons Duncan, Earl of Fife, Thomas Randolph, Earl of Moray, Lord of Man and of Annandale, Patrick Dunbar, Earl of March, Malise, Earl of Strathearn, Malcolm, Earl of Lennox, William, Earl of Ross, Magnus, Earl of Caithness and Orkney, and William, Earl of Sutherland; Walter, Steward of Scotland, William Soules, Butler of Scotland, James, Lord of Douglas, Roger Mowbray, David, Lord of Brechin, David Graham, Ingram Umfraville, John Menteith, guardian of the earldom of Menteith, Alexander Fraser, Gilbert Hay, Constable of Scotland, Robert Keith, Marischal of Scotland, Henry St Clair, John Graham, David Lindsay, William Oliphant, Patrick Graham, John Fenton, William Abernethy, David Wemyss, William Mushet, Fergus of Ardrossan, Eustace Maxwell, William Ramsay, William Mowat, Alan Murray, Donald Campbell, John Cameron, Reginald Cheyne, Alexander Seton, Andrew Leslie, and Alexander Straiton, and the other barons and freeholders and the whole community of the realm of Scotland send all manner of filial reverence, with devout kisses of his blessed feet.
Most Holy Father and Lord, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today. The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of their own royal stock, the line unbroken a single foreigner. The high qualities and deserts of these people, were they not otherwise manifest, gain glory enough from this: that the King of kings and Lord of lords, our Lord Jesus Christ, after His Passion and Resurrection, called them, even though settled in the uttermost parts of the earth, almost the first to His most holy faith. Nor would He have them confirmed in that faith by merely anyone but by the first of His Apostles — by calling, though second or third in rank — the most gentle Saint Andrew, the Blessed Peter's brother, and desired him to keep them under his protection as their patron forever.
The Most Holy Fathers your predecessors gave careful heed to these things and bestowed many favours and numerous privileges on this same kingdom and people, as being the special charge of the Blessed Peter's brother. Thus our nation under their protection did indeed live in freedom and peace up to the time when that mighty prince the King of the English, Edward, the father of the one who reigns today, when our kingdom had no head and our people harboured no malice or treachery and were then unused to wars or invasions, came in the guise of a friend and ally to harass them as an enemy. The deeds of cruelty, massacre, violence, pillage, arson, imprisoning prelates, burning down monasteries, robbing and killing monks and nuns, and yet other outrages without number which he committed against our people, sparing neither age nor sex, religion nor rank, no one could describe nor fully imagine unless he had seen them with his own eyes.
But from these countless evils we have been set free, by the help of Him Who though He afflicts yet heals and restores, by our most tireless Prince, King and Lord, the Lord Robert. He, that his people and his heritage might be delivered out of the hands of our enemies, met toil and fatigue, hunger and peril, like another Macabaeus or Joshua and bore them cheerfully. Him, too, divine providence, his right of succession according to or laws and customs which we shall maintain to the death, and the due consent and assent of us all have made our Prince and King. To him, as to the man by whom salvation has been wrought unto our people, we are bound both by law and by his merits that our freedom may be still maintained, and by him, come what may, we mean to stand. Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Therefore it is, Reverend Father and Lord, that we beseech your Holiness with our most earnest prayers and suppliant hearts, inasmuch as you will in your sincerity and goodness consider all this, that, since with Him Whose vice-gerent on earth you are there is neither weighing nor distinction of Jew and Greek, Scotsman or Englishman, you will look with the eyes of a father on the troubles and privation brought by the English upon us and upon the Church of God. May it please you to admonish and exhort the King of the English, who ought to be satisfied with what belongs to him since England used once to be enough for seven kings or more, to leave us Scots in peace, who live in this poor little Scotland, beyond which there is no dwelling-place at all, and covet nothing but our own. We are sincerely willing to do anything for him, having regard to our condition, that we can, to win peace for ourselves. This truly concerns you, Holy Father, since you see the savagery of the heathen raging against the Christians, as the sins of Christians have indeed deserved, and the frontiers of Christendom being pressed inward every day; and how much it will tarnish your Holiness's memory if (which God forbid) the Church suffers eclipse or scandal in any branch of it during your time, you must perceive. Then rouse the Christian princes who for false reasons pretend that they cannot go to help of the Holy Land because of wars they have on hand with their neighbours. The real reason that prevents them is that in making war on their smaller neighbours they find quicker profit and weaker resistance. But how cheerfully our Lord the King and we too would go there if the King of the English would leave us in peace, He from Whom nothing is hidden well knows; and we profess and declare it to you as the Vicar of Christ and to all Christendom. But if your Holiness puts too much faith in the tales the English tell and will not give sincere belief to all this, nor refrain from favouring them to our prejudice, then the slaughter of bodies, the perdition of souls, and all the other misfortunes that will follow, inflicted by them on us and by us on them, will, we believe, be surely laid by the Most High to your charge.
To conclude, we are and shall ever be, as far as duty calls us, ready to do your will in all things, as obedient sons to you as His Vicar; and to Him as the Supreme King and Judge we commit the maintenance of our cause, casting our cares upon Him and firmly trusting that He will inspire us with courage and bring our enemies to nought. May the Most High preserve you to his Holy Church in holiness and health and grant you length of days.
Given at the monastery of Arbroath in Scotland on the sixth day of the month of April in the year of grace thirteen hundred and twenty and the fifteenth year of the reign of our King aforesaid.
Endorsed: Letter directed to our Lord the Supreme Pontiff by the community of Scotland.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:39 PM
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International law and deposed monarchs
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Expert: Professor Noel Cox - 12/25/2010

Question
As I understand, as stated by Dr. Kerr: "The rules of International Law [govern] the various modes of monarchical succession as well as the . . . position and status of unlawfully dethroned Sovereign Houses." (Stephen P. Kerr, "Resolution of Monarchical Successions Under International Law," The Augustan, vol. 17, no. 4, 1975, p. 979)He also stated, ". . . Royal Status, Rights of Succession, and Membership in Royal Houses can be created or lost by an appropriate Juridical Act. . . ." (Ibid., p. 988)Outside of any court decree or verdict.

The unique power of "prescription" as a juridical act can take away internal "de jure" sovereignty from a deposed monarch, or his successor, who has neglected and therefore forfeited his rights by the juridical act of acquiescence or implied abandonment, and rightfully and justly give it to another (the usurper) who has faithfully and honestly obeyed the law with long undisturbed internal "de facto" rule of the country.

Dr. Kerr declared, "Upon the fall, dispossession, or usurpation of a monarchy, the de jure legal rights to the succession of that monarchy may be kept alive indefinitely [that is, without an end, continually] through the legal vehicle of making diplomatic protests against the usurpation." (See: "Dynastic Law") (See also Emerich de Vattel, The Law of Nations or Le Droit des gens, Book II, chapter II, no's. 145-146) He said this protest must take place in every generation thereafter. That is, "Such diplomatic protests are issued on the death of one claimant upon the occasion that the new claimant takes up the claim." (Dr. Kerr letter January 21, 2010)

For a deposed house:

"Nobiliary International law states that the heads of the Houses of sovereign descent who have not incurred debellatio [have not renounced or abandoned their rights], retain forever the exercise of the powers attaching to them, absolutely irrespective of any territorial possession. They are protected by the continued use of their rights and titles of nobility. . . ." (Monarchist World Magazine # 2, August 1955)

Emer de Vattel declared, "With sovereigns [this preservation or protection of rights] is . . . to retain the title and the arms of a sovereignty or a province, as an evidence that they do not relinquish their claims to it." (The Law of Nations, Book 2, Chapter XI, Nos. 145-146)Dr. Kerr further declared, "when appropriate, recognizing worthy individuals with knighthoods and other decorations or honor at their command" further confirms their royal status as rightful heirs to their former "defacto" thrones. (op.cit. Dr. Kerr) Such an act he states is equal to "a series of competent protests [which] will keep a de jure claim alive indefinitely" or forever. (Ibid.)

In other words, the royal prerogative (internal, "de jure" non-territorial sovereignty) can be lost endlessly and forever for a whole kingdom "in totum," or kept alive indefinitely as the following statement reiterates. The key, as I understand it, is whether there is consistent acquiescence (neglect of rights or silence) or continuing protest. Note the following reiteration of the same prescritive principles:

"The question of how long a 'de jure' king may continue in this status [the status of being a deposed, non-territorial sovereign] is answered in Textor's 'Synopsis Juris Gentium,' which says that the 'de jure' sovereign in exile retain their status as long as they do not surrender their sovereignty to the 'de facto' government. . . . A dispossessed dynasty may keep its claims alive by filing diplomatic protests against the usurpers, which the Stuarts did every generation and/or with every Hanoverian succession as required by international law, and, that a claim is deemed abandoned only when the protests cease. . . . Only when such protests cease does a prescription arise against the 'de jure' rights of a legitimate claimant. . . ." (David Hughes, The British Chronicles, vol. 1, 2007, p. 358)
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