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  #241  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:55 PM
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Duchess' of Alba son has already stated that the idea is implausible. As far as I understand, neither Duchess nor her children are planning to lay claims to any thrones.
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  #242  
Old 02-24-2014, 06:53 AM
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Seriously? Let's hope there is someone else out there who would be a better candidate. I'm just saying...

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  #243  
Old 02-24-2014, 08:12 AM
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The express is suggesting either Alba or Franz of Bavaria. They seem to prefer Alba for the wealth they hope she brings with her. But her wealth is mostly land in Spain which I do not see her selling and if she tried to her family would block it.

Unless an actual Scot can show a reasonable claim, I do not see the Scots bring back the Monarchy.

House of Stuart's Duchess of Alba could be next Queen of Scotland after independence vote | UK | News | Daily Express
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  #244  
Old 02-24-2014, 06:02 PM
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The idea of the Duchess of Alba being the next Queen of Scotland is based on the fact that she's the senior descendant of James II through his son James FitzJames, 1st Duke of Berwick. What it doesn't consider is FitzJames being James II's illegitimate son - as such neither he nor his descendants have any claim to any of James II's titles. Which means that the Duchess of Alba is not actually a possible pretender to the Scottish throne.

The Duke of Bavaria is a pretender, though. He's the senior line descendant of Charles I through Charles' daughter, Henrietta Anne. The eldest surviving son of Charles I, Charles II, had no legitimate children, and the legitimate line of the younger son, James II, ended in 1807 with the death of James' grandson, Henry. Charles I's eldest surviving daughter had one son, William III, who died in 1707, leaving only the descendants of Henrietta Anne, his youngest child.

There is a second pretender, the Dowager Duchess of Calabria. She is also a descendant of Henrietta Anne, and her claim comes from the basis that the Duke of Bavaria's great-great-great-grandmother (through whom his claim descends), Maria Beatrice of Savoy, married her uncle. This was valid in Sardinia, making the children from it legitimate (including the Duke's great-great-grandfather), but would have been invalid in Britain. The argument there is that under British law, the descendants of Maria Beatrice would have been illegitimate, so the Jacobite succession would then pass to the descendants of her sister, Maria Teresa. The Duchess of Calabria is the senior-line descendant of this claim.

Of course, then there's the line of Elizabeth of Scotland, only daughter of James VI and I. When faced with the fact that Queen Anne had no children, English and Scottish Parliaments considered the issue and passed the Succession Act, naming the descendants of Elizabeth's daughter, Sophia, as the only possible heirs to the throne. While it can be argued that the English Parliament pushed this act on the Scottish one, it still remains that it was passed and the heir of Sophia came to the throne - George I. Today Elizabeth II is the senior descendant of that line.

As such, there are three legitimate possible contenders to the Scottish throne if it separates from the UK - Elizabeth II, the Duke of Bavaria, and the Dowager Duchess of Calabria. Not the Duchess of Alba.
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  #245  
Old 02-24-2014, 06:58 PM
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I'd forgotten about the 96 year old maternal aunt in law of the King of Spain,HRH Infanta Alicia,Dowager Duchess of Calabria & Dowager Countess of Caserta.
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  #246  
Old 02-24-2014, 08:29 PM
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It's all good, the Dowager Duchess is easy to forget in this scenario. Her claim is so tenuous that it's easy to overlook.

Offering the throne to the Duke of Bavaria has... tricky implications. Franz has no children, making his heir presumptive his younger brother, Max. Max's heir presumptive - to the Jacobite claim - is his eldest daughter, Sophie, who is married to the Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein. If Max became King of Scotland then his grandson, Joseph Wenzel, would be in the direct line of succession to both the thrones of Scotland and Liechtenstein. If the throne was to be offered to this line, I think it would probably be more favourable to bypass Franz, Max, Sophie, and her children, for Max's second daughter, Marie-Caroline. This would establishes a Scottish monarch that isn't high up in the line of succession to another throne.

Likewise, if they want to go with the Dowager Duchess' line, it might be better to bypass Alicia, her son Carlos, his son Pedro, and Pedro's family, for Carlos' eldest daughter, Cristina, as she's not in higher up in the line of succession to a claim to another throne. If we're thinking that it's possible for a Scottish throne to be revived completely independent of the current British one, then we have to reason that it's also possible for the Kingdom of Two Sicilies to be revived, and it might not be in Scotland's best interest to have its monarch be in the direct line of succession (or even the actual claimant) to that throne.

With the idea of the Duchess of Alba... if we're considering that as a possible option then it would be better, in my opinion, to consider the senior line of Charles II. The senior descendant there, the Duke of Buccleuch, is actually Scottish and isn't in any position to claim other thrones.
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  #247  
Old 02-25-2014, 05:40 AM
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At the time the Act of Succession was being debated in In 1701, the senior surviving Protestant descendant of Elizabeth of Scotland, daughter of King James VI & I, was Charles Schomberg, Marquis of Harwich. He was the grandson of Elizabeth's son, Karl Ludwig, Elector of the Rhineland Palatinate by his second marriage to Marie von Degenveld. However the British Parliament had issues with the legality of Karl Ludwig's second marriage, since he had unilaterally divorced his first wife to marry his mistress- his second wife. In fact, Karl Ludwig- being the ruler of the Rhineland had full legal authority over his marriages- so his divorce was perfectly legal- also in British law. Neverthless, his divorce and second marriage was frowned upon by all the Courts of Europe, especially since his daughter Caroline, was born while his first wife was still living. Caroline of the Rhineland Palatinate was the mother of Charles Schomberg by her marriage to Meinhardt, 3rd Duke of Schomberg. Both Charles Schomberg and his sister Frederica and her descendants were passed over by the British Parliament in favour of Elector Karl Ludwig's younger sister Sophie, Electress of Hanover, and her son Georg, later King George I.
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  #248  
Old 02-25-2014, 07:33 AM
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Further to my last post, Charles Schomberg died without issue in 1713, his sister Lady Frederica Schomberg's senior Protestant cognatic descendant today is Anthea Theresa Lycett (born Marcia Anne Miller), 12th Countess of Mertola, since her mother's death in 2013. If Elector Karl Ludwig's second marriage were to be formally recognized by the British Parliament, Anthea could legally claim the British Throne
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  #249  
Old 02-27-2014, 05:19 PM
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Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots

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  #250  
Old 02-27-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Domhangairt View Post
Further to my last post, Charles Schomberg died without issue in 1713, his sister Lady Frederica Schomberg's senior Protestant cognatic descendant today is Anthea Theresa Lycett (born Marcia Anne Miller), 12th Countess of Mertola, since her mother's death in 2013. If Elector Karl Ludwig's second marriage were to be formally recognized by the British Parliament, Anthea could legally claim the British Throne

Actually, no she couldn't.

Any claim that Anthea has would be based on the idea that the British Parliament has the ability to chose who the monarch is, and that those who are undesirable for whatever reason can be passed over in favour of others. In short, the only way in which Anthea's claims could be valid are if she and her supporters agree that the British Parliament had the right to pass the Act of Settlement.

If this is valid, then the Act of Settlement clearly excludes Anthea's line as it isn't descended from Sophia of Hanover, which the Act clearly states that anyone in the line of succession has to be descended from her.

If Anthea's supporters do not support the idea that the British Parliament has the right to dictate the terms of who the monarch is, then her claim is overruled by that of Franz or Alicia's claims, as they're both descended through more senior lines. Either way, Anthea has no claim herself.
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  #251  
Old 02-28-2014, 08:07 AM
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Alternative Succession scenarios

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Actually, no she couldn't.

Any claim that Anthea has would be based on the idea that the British Parliament has the ability to chose who the monarch is, and that those who are undesirable for whatever reason can be passed over in favour of others. In short, the only way in which Anthea's claims could be valid are if she and her supporters agree that the British Parliament had the right to pass the Act of Settlement.

If this is valid, then the Act of Settlement clearly excludes Anthea's line as it isn't descended from Sophia of Hanover, which the Act clearly states that anyone in the line of succession has to be descended from her.

If Anthea's supporters do not support the idea that the British Parliament has the right to dictate the terms of who the monarch is, then her claim is overruled by that of Franz or Alicia's claims, as they're both descended through more senior lines. Either way, Anthea has no claim herself.
Anthea is the senior survivng Protestant descendant of Elizabeth of Scotland, Franz of Bavaria is Catholic, I don't know about Alicia. But you are quite correct- the English Parliament entailed the English Succession to the Protestant descendants of Sophie of the Rhineland. The Scottish Parliament accepted the Hanoverian Succession in 1706, prior to the signing of the Treaty of Union in 1707. In recent times, calls have been made to set asside the Act of Settlement, but this is unlikely to happen in England because of the enormous upheaval such a recision would cause. Even Tony Blair avoided the issue. However, if Scots vote for independence in September this year, the Holyrood Parliament will almost certainly set asside the Act of Settlement- as it applies to Scotland- there is not a single party in Scotland -including the Tories- who support the Act of Settlement because of the large number of heirs which it excludes. Lots of fun and games later this year- current polls suggest the referendum will be a close call!
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  #252  
Old 02-28-2014, 08:11 AM
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Alternative Succession scenarios

Further to my previous post, the decision to settle the English Succession on Sophie of the Rhineland was heavily influenced by the reigning monarch of the day, William of Orange, who had a very close relationship with Sophie- and her son Georg Ludwig -later King George I- he was arguably William's strongest ally in Europe.
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  #253  
Old 04-23-2014, 06:47 AM
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1014: Brian Boru and the Battle of Clontarf - 1,000 Year Ago today

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  #254  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:05 PM
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A Tudor-Stewart marriage: oak chest wedding gift for James IV and Margaret Tudor discovered


A Tudor-Stewart wedding: oak chest gift for James IV and Margaret Tudor marriage discovered | History Extra
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  #255  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:27 PM
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A Tudor-Stewart marriage: oak chest wedding gift for James IV and Margaret Tudor discovered


A Tudor-Stewart wedding: oak chest gift for James IV and Margaret Tudor marriage discovered | History Extra
That is a very beautiful chest and looks like it still is in marvelous condition. I personally love oak best.
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  #256  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:51 PM
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A Tudor-Stewart marriage: oak chest wedding gift for James IV and Margaret Tudor discovered





A Tudor-Stewart wedding: oak chest gift for James IV and Margaret Tudor marriage discovered | History Extra

My jaw just literally dropped when I saw this on Twitter a little while ago. What a find!!


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  #257  
Old 09-20-2014, 05:28 AM
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Marjorie Bruce, Princess of Scotland and mother of the Stewart dynasty of Kings of Scots

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