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  #141  
Old 04-06-2010, 01:01 PM
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The Bagration Mukhraneli is the oldest line of the Bagration Family and they are directly
descendents of the last King of united Georgia, Alexander I. And straight descendents of all the Kings of Georgia.They are also related to
King Erekle II, the last King of Kartli-Kakheti.(today not a independent Government). King who reigned in Georgian territory but not in all Georgia.


Last King of all Georgia

Alexander I the Great (sons)


Mukhraneli branch Gruzinsky branch

Demetre (1413-1453) Giorgi (1466-1476)



The Bagrationi Gruzinsky and Bagrationi Imeretinsky are lines who where reigned in parts of Georgia these regions today do not exist as a country and are not independent governments, today the Country is called Georgia and not Imereti Country either not Kartl-Kakheti Country, the last kings of Georgia descendents are the Bagrationi Mukhraneli and the last King who reigned in a part of Georgia was Solomon II of Imereti.
List of Kings of the Bagrationi Mukhranelis line (kartly Territory including Tbilisi the capital of Georgia) after the kingdom split



King Konstantine II 1478-1505. Son of Demtre (1413-1453)
King Davit X 1505-1525.
King Luarsab I 1527-1556.
King Simon I1556-1600.
King Davit XI 1569-1578.
King Giorgi X 1600-1606.
King Bagrat VII 1616-1619.
King Rostom 1633-1658
King Vakhtang V 1658-1676.
King.St.Luarsab II 1606-1615.
King Simon II 1619-1631.
King Giorgi XI 1676-1688.
King Archil II 1661-1699
King Vakhtang VI 1703-1724
King Baqar I 1717-1719.


For the Bagrationis lines of Imereti and Gruzinsky its not possible to pretend to the throne of Georgia as the senior direct line descendents of the last King of Georgia Alexander I are the Bagrationi Mukhraneli line. If Georgia’s Country splits again in 3 different independents governments it may be the case that the lines of Bagration Imeretinsky and Gruzinsky will have an option to claim their ancestors territories.
Today Georgia is ruled by a central government as in Alexander I times.
Any pretension which may occur coming from the un senior genealogical descendents of the Alexander I will be drop in separatism claims.
.
As far as the Bagration Gruzinsky Family is concerned, the grandsons of the Head of
the House, Nugzar Bagrationi, do not carry the surname Bagration (they are Chichinadze
and Malania surnames);

In the case of Bagrationi Imeretinsky line, the last member passed away in 2009 (Nino
Bagration Imeretinsky) buried in the state cemetery and not in any Georgian Orthodox Cathedral follows the traditions of the Georgian Royals. His descendants carry the surname Japaridze,



. From Davit Batonishvili onwards, the lawful grandson of the last King of Kartli and
Kakheti, Erekle II, the king’s wife and daughters lost their dynastic rights following the
king’s death;




Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Governments of Georgia have recognised
the position and rights of H.R.H. Prince Jorge Bagration (the father of Prince Davit) as
the Head of the Royal House of Georgia and as the Crown Prince of Georgia. This formal
recognition puts the Royal House of Bagration in a unique position amongst the former
ruling houses;


Besides, in 1991 the Mukhrani branch was not only recognized as royal by the Georgian
government, but the insignia of the family’s order (the Order of the Eagle and the
Seamless Tunic) was allowed to be officially worn in Georgia.

The recent monarchist declaration of His Holiness and Beatitude Ellia II, the Patriarch of
All Georgia, implicitly pointing the Bagrationi Mukhranelis;
In the official documents, passports and identity cards (of the Republic of Georgia), the
members of the Bagrationi Mukhraneli Royal Family are declared as Batonishvili (son of
the lord) and as Crown Prince’s;

By request of the Spanish King Alfonso XII, due to the Royal wedding of Infanta Maria
de las Mercedes de Baviera y de Borbon with H.R.H. Prince Irakli Bagration Mukhraneli,
Vladimir Kirilovich Romanov, Head of the Romanov Imperial Family, issued a statement
in which he recognized the Royal blood of the Bagration Mukhraneli,

Most of the Royal Houses around the world (whether regnant or not) today recognize the
Bagration Mukhraneli as the Georgian Royal Family.

There are other dynastic reasons that point out to the Bagration Mukharneli’s unique position
over other lines of the same family. These are:

According to Bagration laws, if any member of the Dynasty, who must have Orthodox
faith, gets married to a non-Orthodox person and through a non-Orthodox ceremony,
such Royal looses his/her dynastic rights. The same applies if such Royals are not
baptized in the Orthodox Church. For the last century, both the Bagration Gruzinsky and
the Bagration Imeretinsky were married through civil marriages. Such members of the
Royal Family who choose to be married by a civil marriage will be excluded from the
Bagration Dynastic laws. In the case of males, they are allowed to keep only their
surname;

The Bagration Mukhraneli are blood connected with the Imperial House of Russia and
with the Royal House of Bavaria. They are also second cousins of His Majesty Juan
Carlos, King of Spain;
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  #142  
Old 04-06-2010, 01:58 PM
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It will come as no surprise that the membership list of the Order of the Eagle of Georgia and the Seamless Tunic of Our Lord Jesus Christ is founded with names of knights and ladies who support the legitimate aspirations of the Bagrationi Mukhraneli Branch . During the Grand Mastership of H.R.H. Prince Irakly, the knights of the order included – among others – his brother-in-law HIRH Grand Duke Wladimiro Kyrilovich Romanov, King Humberto of Italy, King Boris of Bulgaria, King Leka of Albania Prince Jaime de Borbón, Duke of Anjou and Segovia, HIRH Archduke Carlos de Habsburgo-Lorena y Borbón and his brother HIRH Archduke Francisco José de Habsburgo-Lorena y Borbón, H.R.H. Prince Nicholas of Romania, the Head of the House of Borbón-Sevilla Duke Francisco de Borbón y de Borbón (who served as chancellor during a prolonged period), and so on.
Today’s list of Knights and Ladies Grand Collar
KNIGHTS OF THE GRAND COLLAR
H.H. Patriarch of all Georgia Catholicós Illia II

H.R.H. Prince Irakly Bagrationi Mukhran Batonishvili.
H.R.H. Prince Ugo Bagrationi Mukhran Batonishvili.
H.R.H. Prince Bagrat Bagrationi Mukhraneli y de Baviera
H.R.H. Prince Juan Bagrationi Mukhraneli
H.E. Verne. B. Heiderich, Baron Von Heiderich (+2008)
H.R.H. Alexander Prinz von Sachsen, Herzog zu Sachsen
H.R.H. Prince de Egipto, Osman Rifat Ibrahim
H.I.H. Crown Prince of Etiopía, Zara Jacob Asfa Wossen
H.H. King of Ruanda, Kigeli V
H.R.H. Prince of Montenegro, Nicolás Petrovich-Njegosh
H.I.H. Prince de Anam, Bao Thang
H.R.H. Prince Aleksandar Pavlov Karageorgevich of Serbia
H. M. King Solomon Rukirabasija Agutamba Gafabusa Iguru I, The Forty-ninth Omukama of
Bunyoro-Kitara
H.E. Mr. Nikolaos Andriopoulos
H.M. King George Tupou V
LADIES OF THE GRAND COLLAR
H.E. Mercedes Zornoza y Ponce de León
H.R.H. Princess María Bagrationi Mukhran Batonishvili.
H.I.H. Princess Nilufer
H.R.H. Princess Gisela de Sajonia y de Baviera
H.R.H. Princess Elena Kirby Bagrationi Mukhraneli, Countess Dvinskaya.
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  #143  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgi View Post
In the case of Bagrationi Imeretinsky line, the last member passed away in 2009 (Nino
Bagration Imeretinsky) buried in the state cemetery and not in any Georgian Orthodox Cathedral follows the traditions of the Georgian Royals. His descendants carry the surname Japaridze
Welcome to The Royal Forums, Giorgi! Thank you for your post.

Do you know the exact date of Princess Nino's death?
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  #144  
Old 04-07-2010, 12:21 AM
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Cool

Thank you Giorgi for your posts, the information was fascinating.
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  #145  
Old 04-07-2010, 01:49 PM
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hi every one )) benjamin the date of death of nino was in march 2009 but i not sure the day.
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  #146  
Old 04-07-2010, 05:11 PM
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Are you sure he died in March 2009? I've just now checked Paul Theroff's genealogy of Bagration Family and no one results died in March 2009 there.
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  #147  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgi View Post
hi every one )) benjamin the date of death of nino was in march 2009 but i not sure the day.
Thank you very much for the info, Giorgi!

She was the last of the Imereti, even though her son uses the name Bagrationi-Jafaridze.
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  #148  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:49 PM
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Georgia's Interior Minister: Revival of Bagrationi Dynasty in Georgia is Primakov's project
7 April 2010

"After the appointment of Primakov on our direction, the idea of restoring the dynasty of Bagrations occurred. Representative of the dynasty was forced to marry immediately, forcing the bride to divorce her husband. But this project did not justify itself and the idea broke up, like marriage of Bagration ", Vano Merabishvili said.

Full article: http://en.trend.az/news/politics/foreign/1664948.html
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  #149  
Old 04-08-2010, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
She was the last of the Imereti, even though her son uses the name Bagrationi-Jafaridze.
Their last name is Bagrationi-Japaridze.
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  #150  
Old 04-08-2010, 06:19 PM
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Russia's role in the Georgian royal marriage?
8 April 2010

Did Russia play a role in encouraging the marriage between Prince David Bagration and Princess Anna Bagration-Gruzinsky in order to establish and control the Georgian monarchy?

This is the view of Georgian's Interior Minister Vamo Merabisvili, who was interviewed the newspaper, Kommersant. He discussed Russia's attempt to influence Georgia's political stituation, despite the fact that the Georgian population largely supports their government. Merabishvilli said that the idea for restoring the Bagration dynasty in Georgia was the "Russian project."

Full story from Marlene Koenig's blog: Royal Musings - Russia's role in the Georgian royal marriage?
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  #151  
Old 04-08-2010, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Merabishvilli said that the idea for restoring the Bagration dynasty in Georgia was the "Russian project."
Dear Benjamin,
Thank you for the link.
I'm sorry to say that, but the source of this info - Mr Merabishvili - is not impeccable.
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  #152  
Old 04-09-2010, 06:00 AM
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That would be a modern-day first: Russia encouraging the establishment of a monarchy as a means of controlling a former territory.
It must have been a very long-term plan since it had to start with a wedding. A restored Georgian kingdom was a long way off.
It sounds somewhat dubious.
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  #153  
Old 05-10-2010, 06:20 AM
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not any comment about it in the web site www.royalhouseofgeorgia.ge
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  #154  
Old 05-10-2010, 07:37 AM
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“You can bend it and twist it (giorgi). . . You can misuse and abuse it. . . But even God cannot change the Truth.” (Michael Levy)

When the Empire of Russia tragically abolished the throne in 1801, they exiled the royal family --- HRH Prince Nugzar's ancestors. No one from the other lines (Bagrationi-Mukhranski, Bagrationi-Davitishvili, Bagrationi-Babadishi) were exiled to Russia, because everyone knew that they were high nobles and had no right or claim to the throne. The Mukhranbatoni branch, as stated, were offshoot princes of the high nobility and lost all sovereignty and dynastic rights over 500 years ago. No one of this line has reigned over any kingdom or even a small territory, since that time. They received recognition from Imperial Russia as " the Illustrious," without the higher right of "Highness" attached because of their lesser status. In addition, because the Mukhraneli line was such a minor line in the estimation of Imperial Russia that only the head of this noble house could use any title. On their non-royal status for example, Nicholos II, the Emperor of Russia, decided that the marriage between the Imperial Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna and Prince KonstantinAlexandrovich Bagration-Mukhransky was ". . . legally morganatic, reflecting the non-dynastic status that the Bagration-Mukhranskys held in Russia in 1911." (Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) "According to the Almanach de Gotha, Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia morganatically wed Prince Constantine Alexandrovich Bagration-Mukhransky." (Line of succession to the Russian throne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The Infante Juan of Spain, designated heir of King Alfonso XIII of Spain, refused to recognize "his god-son as a Spanish dynast," because his mother had married a non-royal, the grandfather of Prince David. (Infante Juan, Count of Barcelona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Prince David Bagrationi-Mukhraneli is from this line, which is a line of non-reigning, non-dynastic princes of the high nobility of Georgia.

The Bragrationi-Mukhranski family did not even have a coat of arms, while the Bagration's reigning family had one for hundreds of years. The arms of the Gruzinski line were officially recognised by the Imperial Russian Empire in the 19th century as belonging exclusively to theline of kings. In the 1940's, the Mukhrany line of non-dynastic princes unlawfully usurped the arms of the Royal House. The arms Prince Irakli Muhransky sent to professor Takaishvili were the arms of HRH Prince Teimuraz --- son of George XII, king of the United Kingdoms of Kartli-Kakheti, the direct line ancestor of HRH Prince Nugzar. From this time forward the Muhransky line began to unlawfully use the arms of the Royal House of Gruzinsky, which never should have taken place as they are not descended from the line of the kings.
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  #155  
Old 05-10-2010, 12:29 PM
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hello varaz ,would be very interesting if you say to us if in the Georgian ortodox altars the women are aloud to enter ?
and also if in the altars it is where the kings of Georgia are proclaimed?
and wich surnames have the granddaughters or grandchildren of nugzar bagrationi?
also is it interesting if nugzar was defended his homeland during the abkhazia wars and osetia at the beginning of the 90?
And very very interesting who was the elder son of the last King alexander I king of united Georgia.
demetre (mukhranis branch or giorgi gruzinsky branch?

Mukhraneli branch . . . . . . . . .Gruzinsky branch
Demetre (1413-1453) . . . .Giorgi (1466-1476).

and the last thing if -Karlt kakheti exists like country nowadays?
one more,way the Bagration Mukhranis where forced to exilated and nugzar was in georgia during the soviet period?

Thank you very much.
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  #156  
Old 05-10-2010, 12:40 PM
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coat of arms Bagration Mukhranis
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  #157  
Old 05-10-2010, 12:51 PM
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[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Davit_/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.png[/IMG]

Coat of arms for the weeding betwen H.R.H.Prince Davit and Princess Ana..in the rigth grusinzky coat of arms.
dear varaz do you feel the diferents beetween arms?and if the mukhranis usurpeated the arms way was used with any problems for the weeding?.
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  #158  
Old 05-11-2010, 07:40 AM
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like you see the mukhranis coat of armas its in the left (firts) and gruzinsky on the right (second) position.

another think is way the soviet goverment give a 3 rooms apartament in tbilisi to the grusinzky branch (petre gruzinsky).

and to the mukhranis was taked the palace in Mukhrani,the 36 rooms house in Tbilsi,the building of the Mukhranelis in Rustaveli avenue,lands,etc.?

the russian recognition was because the mukranis and the imeretis where against the anexion,nothing more.

and the last knig who reigned in a part of georgia was Solomon II of Imereti and not ErekleII.
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  #159  
Old 05-11-2010, 02:21 PM
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Giorgi made the claim: that the Mukhranski is the senior line genealogically speaking of the whole Bagrationi dynasty.
We answer: However, junior, or cadet lines, are designations which belong to salic law, not to the Roman/Byzantine/Persian law of succession, which prevailed in Georgia for hundreds of years. This kind of succession allowed for different sons and even a females to succeed to the throne. Junior, or cadet status, is meaningless in such a system because it had nothing to do with inheritance to the crown and scepter of the land. The point is, cadet and senior line arguments are inseparably connected to salic law in Europe, which does not apply to the royal house of Georgia, so calling one line cadet and one line senior genealogically is nonsense. It has no meaning in the succession. And even if it did, the point is, the line of the rightful kings goes down to HRH Prince Nugzar --- not down any noble line. The senior line, the line of the kings, is the Gruzinski royal house.
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:26 PM
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giorgi makes the claim: the Mukhranski family is "the oldest line of the Bagration Family."
We answer: None of the lines are any older that any other line. This statement makes no sense !
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