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  #181  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varaz View Post
Dear Benjamin: According to the plan of the Patriarch of Georgia...
Thank you for your answer, Varaz.

Given the many media reports and the fact that all information about Princess Anna and last year's wedding have been removed from Prince David's website, I think it is fair to say that the marriage is not intact.

The only way the monarchy in Georgia will ever be restored is if the Bagrationi family is united. The union of Anna Bagrationi-Gruzinsky and David Bagrationi-Mukhransky was the perfect way to solve the issue. However, since the couple has split and both branches are now at odds with one another, they have effectively squandered any chances that they might have had of ascending a throne. End of story.
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  #182  
Old 05-13-2010, 06:29 AM
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Dear Benjamin, unfortunately plans of Patriarch have changed...
It would be very silly if Georgia and its people have decided not to restore the Monarchy because of any ill-bred high-nobiliary prince like David Mukhraneli.
Excuse but the country requires it, as there is a true royal family of the Crown Prince Nugzar, and true monarchists of all Georgia will make everything that the true Royal family of Prince Nugzar was more notable all over the world.
Thank you
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  #183  
Old 05-13-2010, 08:11 AM
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There are obvious agendas being promoted in this thread which is not in itself an issue except where comments become personal.
A reminder that members are expected to address each other with respect. Posts that do not will be edited or deleted.

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  #184  
Old 05-13-2010, 12:37 PM
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Dear Varaz,

If David Bagrationi-Mukhransky is just an "ill-bred high-nobiliary prince" then why exactly did Prince Nugzar let his daughter marry him in the first place?

Prince Nugzar may be the Head of the Royal House of Georgia, but if he died today, how many Georgians would actually accept Princess Anna as his heiress? She is twice-divorced with two young daughters and no male children. Furthermore, Princess Anna is a school teacher who does not have a high profile in Georgia and who remained basically unknown to the outside world until her second marriage with her distant cousin Prince David.

On the other hand, David Bagrationi seems to have more financial resources at his disposal than the Gruzinskys, and he claims to be close to the Patriarch. He may not be Head of the Royal House, but many people believe him to be so anyways.

However, Prince David, like Princess Anna, has the added baggage of a failed marriage. If neither he nor she can cope with the duties that a marriage entails, then why would Georgians expect either one of them to be capable of the responsibilities that would come with being a monarch?

Both sides need to heal this rift. Otherwise, they can kiss their hopes of possibly reigning in Georgia goodbye forever.
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  #185  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:19 AM
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Dear Benjamin.

you have the whole reason.

the nugzar branch is a normal family acquaintance for his art and for the Georgian people it is very common.
After 200 years without monarchy the Georgians should decide his future monarch, and I do not believe that anybody will supporting nugzar or ana,just as till now nobody supported them,apart from they 4 friends.

the gruzinsky are losing the time with things like this one ,and what they should do is to center on what really it imports.

without H.R.H. Prince davit will not be able to do anything just as they have not done anything until H.R.H. Prince davit looked at Ana.

and why nugzar let hir daugthers married with grigol malania (ana first housbend)and teimuraz chichinadze (anas sister housbend) ?.
something strange ,,,,,if davit its not royal why they have pretensions with him and not with nugzars grandchilds fathers????????.
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  #186  
Old 05-17-2010, 05:06 AM
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Dear Benjamin, you asking: "If David Bagrationi-Mukhransky is just an "ill-bred high-nobiliary prince" then why exactly did Prince Nugzar let his daughter marry him in the first place?"
We answer: We, the monarchists, really don`t know, but we too had a same question and when we asked some members of HRH Nugzars Chancellery they said - "HRH Prince Nugzar in all has blindly trusted in the Patriarch... about what Prince now regrets. The Royal family did not really know David personally till the marriage. HRH Crown Prince Nugzar demanded protection and observance of his rights and royal prerogative during the wedding ceremony, but later all his demands were coldy ignored. According to the plan of the Patriarch, before constitutional monarchy could be accepted by the country, the child born from this marriage would have to grow up so he could become the future monarch, acquiring the heritage of this throne from his mother –-- HRH Princess Anna. The plan for some reason, we do not know why, did not consider the importance of the Royal Person of HRH Nugzar as the present head of the Royal House. The Patriarch's decisions simply concentrated only on the future child (?). Prince Nugzar considered the rationality of the plan of the Patriarch and agreed that in the future, royal rights could transfer from him to his grandson. However, David, right after the wedding, revealed his hidden agenda, which he kept hidden till after the marriage. He has openly refused his conjugal duty entirely, and therefore the creation of a future child. He also expressed before HRH Princess Anna that the child is not necessary for him, because he is already the "king." Right after the wedding, David declared himself on an Internet site as the head of the house, and his immediate ancestors as kings, when in reality they were never anything more than part of the high nobility of Georgia. With these impudent acts of betrayal, he has roughly broken a legitimate principle of a dynasty and destroyed the plan of the Patriarch."
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  #187  
Old 05-17-2010, 08:40 AM
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varaz the mukhraneli brach its reconozited many time ago.and not after the wedding.
the gruzinsky branch its trying not to become extinct.

really you think that with this attitude someone is going to help the gruzinsky not to become extinct.?
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  #188  
Old 05-17-2010, 12:56 PM
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giorgi says: "if davit its not royal why they have pretensions with him and not with nugzars grandchilds fathers?"
We answer: It is simple, they never claimed that they are royals... but David did...

giorgi dreams: "the gruzinsky branch its trying not to become extinct."
We answer: The Royal Line can not be extinct if the generation proceeds, no matter by male or female and we have lots of examples of it around the world. Maybe you think that the Line of British crown has stoped on Queen Elizabeth ? or take Dutch monarchy for example...
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  #189  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:14 PM
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It would be most kind of members from Georgia to clarify the following. Given the fact that the unification marriage did not work out, I wonder who will have a precedence in a future generation: Princess Anna's children or Prince David's children.
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  #190  
Old 05-18-2010, 02:50 AM
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Dear Al Bina.

its easy to answer you ,the ana childrens are not Bagrationi surname ,are malania surname like they father.
no one georgian will accept the malanias family,i soo sorry.

In 1946 H.I.R.H Vladimir III Kiríllovich Romanov received a letter from the Infante Fernando of Spain. His daughter Меrcedes wanted to marry Prince Irakli Bagration Mukhraneli of Georgia, brother of the Princess Leonida. Therefore Fernando wanted to know if the above mentioned marriage would have status equality or not according to the Royal house of Georgia out or not recognized as of tsarist dignity. For the Record of December 05, 1946, Vladimir admitted that the members of the Dynasty of the Bagration Mukhrani of Georgia had status equality that the rest of the royal houses of Europe. This way there was corrected the violation realized by the Emperor Alejandro I of Russia in 1801. Of the previous thing it remains clear that the marriage of Vladimir and Leonida is between pairs and for it his progeny, in this case the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, preserves his rights to the Throne of all the Rusias.

Are the gruzinskys having any conection with any Imperial or Royal House arround the world? or just after wedding pretension symptoms?.
unfortunately these pretensions will only take them to the way of the extinction

list of real Bagration Mukhraneli.males
Irakli Bagrationi.
Davit Bagrationi.
Guram Bagrationi
Bagrat Bagrationi.
Ioane Bagrationi.
Alexander Bagrationi.
Mikhail Bagrationi.
Alexander Bagrationi.
Irakli Bagrationi.
Wladimir Bagrationi.
Othar Bagrationi.
Othar Bagrationi.

list of real Bagration Gruzinsky.males
Nugzar Bagrationi.
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  #191  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:11 AM
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H.R.H.Prince Irakli Bagration Mukhraneli.


Petre Gruzisky prominet poet
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  #192  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:15 AM
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H.R.H.Prince Giorgi Bagration Mukhraneli.



Nugzar Bagration Gruzinsky
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  #193  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:20 AM
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H.R.H.Prince Davit Bagration Mukhraneli.



Ana Bagration Gruzinsky (in the middle)
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  #194  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:41 AM
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giorgi claims: "For the Record of December 05, 1946, Vladimir admitted that the members of the Dynasty of the Bagration Mukhrani of Georgia had status equality that the rest of the royal houses of Europe."
We repeat: The Mukhranbatoni branch, as stated, were offshoot princes of the high nobility and lost all sovereignty and dynastic rights over 500 years ago. No one of this line has reigned over any kingdom or even a small territory, since that time. They received recognition from Imperial Russia as " the Illustrious," without the higher right of "Highness" attached because of their lesser status. In addition, because the Mukhraneli line was such a minor line in the estimation of Imperial Russia that only the head of this noble house could use any title.
On their non-royal status for example, Nicholos II, the Emperor of Russia, decided that the marriage between the Imperial Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna and Prince Konstantin Alexandrovich Bagration-Mukhransky was ". . . legally morganatic, reflecting the non-dynastic status that the Bagration-Mukhranskys held in Russia in 1911. (Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) "According to the Almanach de Gotha, Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia morganatically wed Prince Constantine Alexandrovich Bagration-Mukhransky." ( Line of succession to the Russian throne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The Infante Juan of Spain, designated heir of King Alfonso XIII of Spain, refused to recognize "his god-son as a Spanish dynast," because his mother had married a non-royal prince Mukhransky, the grandfather of Prince David. (Infante Juan, Count of Barcelona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Prince David Bagrationi-Mukhraneli is from this line, which is a line of non-reigning, non-dynastic princes of the high nobility of Georgia.
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  #195  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:17 AM
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Al bina is asking: "I wonder who will have a precedence in a future generation: Princess Anna's children or Prince David's children."
We answer: Dear Al bina, we asked this question to Royal Chancellery members and they said:
"...According to dynasty legislation, in the Royal House, the status of future successor is determined by decree of his Royal Highness Prince Nugzar (head of the Royal House), but until then, the marriage is considered as an ordinary marriage. The fate of the marriage is to be decided by the married couple themselves..."
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  #196  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:45 AM
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HRH ANNA, Georgian Princess (2nd in line of succession right
after HRH Prince Nugzar)
(Batonishvili/Tsarevich) (Born 1976)
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  #197  
Old 05-18-2010, 04:27 PM
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It has been most kind of you to explain the situation. It is unfortunate that Princess Anna's children are unlikely to be a part of the succession line.
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  #198  
Old 05-18-2010, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varaz View Post
We answer: We, the monarchists, really don`t know, but we too had a same question and when we asked some members of HRH Nugzars Chancellery they said - "HRH Prince Nugzar in all has blindly trusted in the Patriarch... about what Prince now regrets...
Dear Varaz,

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my query.

If what you say is true, then it is a shame that the wishes of Prince Nugzar have been mostly ignored. I read that the Prince played a part in coordinating and planning the beautiful ceremony that united his eldest daughter with her distant cousin. Prince Nugzar must be very disappointed with the way that events have unfolded.

Though the Royal Family did not personally know Prince David prior to this marriage, I assume that Princess Anna and Prince David were in the process of becoming acquainted with one another over the years before their 2009 wedding. For instance, I have seen a picture of the two together at a 2007 Bagrationi family gathering. It was difficult to tell whether they appeared to actually enjoy one another's company, but they were sitting next to each other. Also, Princess Anna's (forced?) divorce from Grigory Malania must have happened not long after their youngest daughter Miriam was born in about 2006/2007.

None of what you say reflects well on David Bagrationi-Mukhransky. His refusal to even try to have children with his wife should be grounds for an annulment.

Too bad Princess Anna didn't insist on marrying the younger Prince Ugo Bagrationi-Mukhransky. He is the best looking of his brothers, and one would hope, a bit nicer. Prince Irakly Bagrationi-Mukhransky (born 1977) and Prince Lelio Orsini D'Aragona (born 1981 and son of the Georgian Ambassador to the Vatican, Princess Kethevane Bagrationi-Mukhransky) are still single as well.
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  #199  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:40 PM
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Prince Nugzar was one of the speakers at a conference concerning “Mass exiles of the Caucasian peoples in the 19th-20th centuries” that took place in Tbilisi on 23 February 2010.

More information and pictures: Fund of Caucasus
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  #200  
Old 05-19-2010, 08:16 AM
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Al Bina herself makes conclusions: "It is unfortunate that Princess Anna's children are unlikely to be a part of the succession line."
We answer: We think that any sharp-conclusions made by people from outside of Royal Family into the account of the law of succession simply obscenely and ethically wrong. We simply face infringement of Human Rights and Dynastic Law. Who will inherit succession rights, it must be determined by the Head of the concrete royal house.
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