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  #61  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarina View Post
Glittering Tiaras, thank you very much for sharing more of your knowledge in this matter. I will check for the books you suggest on Amazon. (It's been at least three weeks since I ordered from them, and my hands are shaking LOL!) I'm an avid reader and love history. Hawaii's Story in particular intrigues me, and is well-reviewed.

Married to a man of Chippewa decent, I am sensitive to the impact of colonialism and displacement... and ignorance. As recently as the 1930's, his grandfather was not accepted into "polite" society, and wound up abandoning his young family to live in the remote forest of extreme northern Michigan. While the issues in his family are of course different than that of Hawaii's history, I can certainly understand the strength of your feelings in this matter. Thank you again for your insight and recommendations.

It is interesting to note that there are similarities between what happened to the Native Americans and Native Hawaiians. In fact, various nation groups come to Hawai'i often to have talks with sovreignty groups... it's a curious (if that's the right word to use) bond between these two great peoples.

Perhaps we could talk about the overthrow without becoming too political about it, but we'll be walking a fine line. The facts are out there, unfortunately, many only know one side. The Bishop Museum is currently in the process of transferring many Hawaiian newspapers online (hence digitally scanned) for all to read and use for research. So for those who are interested this is one avenue to begin their research.

The story of the Hawaiian kingdom is extremely fascinating one; especially with its unique ties to England (which can still be felt and seen today.) Perhaps later in the day (or week), I'll give a brief historical analysis between the two.

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  #62  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:07 PM
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I feel rather ignorant over here in my Midwestern corner of the U.S. While I had come across references to the questionable action of annexation, I had not realized that there was a growing movement working towards regaining sovereignty. Since this thread, I've been doing some more reading, including several websites dedicated to this. I've also read some excerpts of various writings of the Queen's and am struck with her eloquence and intelligence. (Even I know that while every royal can be well-educated, not all of them are mental heavyweights LOL!) She was obviously a lady of high calibre, and her book is at the top of my Amazon wish list.

If you find the time and the inclination at the same time , I would be grateful to hear more about your analysis.
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  #63  
Old 02-03-2008, 02:46 PM
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Hum...I'm very interested in this issue. So, it's true there is a movement searching to regain soveranity.

Abnd I didn't know Hawaii had a so highly intelligent Queen! WE are learning new things every day of our lifes...

Vanesa.
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  #64  
Old 02-04-2008, 05:01 PM
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So, it's true there is a movement searching to regain soveranity.

Very much so and their voice is becoming louder and louder. Unfortunately, I don't think that it will happen.

The people of Hawai'i are constantly battling for their rights, specifically land rights, that are essentially stolen lands connected all the way back from the overthrow. Case and point La'au Point in Molokai. The people are also struggling to keep the KSBE schools for Hawaiians only (that was the reason why it was set up in the first place; Education for Hawaiians only; to give them a fair chance.) The movement for sovereignty and Kamehameha Schools (for native Hawaiians only) is growing and protests are not just in Hawai'i they are on the mainland as well including, but limited to, SoCal, Seattle, and San Fran.
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  #65  
Old 02-06-2008, 03:06 AM
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The Queen was a very intelligent and elegant woman who was taught the western ways by the missionaries as were the other monarchs of Hawaii. The royal children had to attend what was called the " Chiefs School". They were taught how to read and write and were taught western ways including how to be proper. The mode of dress was definitely English since the monarchy was deeply impressed with British ways. Not only that, the little Prince, Albert, was the Godson of Queen Victoria. Unfortunately he died when he was only 4 years of age. I sometimes wonder if the Royal family has any knowledge of that little tidbit. As for sovereignty, yes it is a very big issue. It is quite unlikely that full sovereignty will ever be gained but some kind of agreement will be made. The U.S. will not be willing to give up islands that are too valuable when it comes to the military. We just have to wait and see what happens. I think the American Indians are the only group of indigenous peoples who have been willing to stand with the Hawaiian people in the quest to be heard and to be recognized as indigenous people of the Hawaiian Islands. Being the American Indians have basically gone through the same thing makes sense as to why they are so special to the Native Hawaiians.They all can relate in a huge way I think.
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  #66  
Old 02-07-2008, 07:10 PM
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I think you are right, Lady Gabrielle.

I was just reading about the Australian government's apology to all the Aboriginal children they had removed from their families, for decades, placing with white foster families for 'their own good.' Hundreds of people, cut off from their families and cultures and identities... and many of them abused in various forms by their foster parents. I believe this policy was in existence until around 1970.

White and western powers are accountable for a great deal of suffering upon native peoples, and none of it can ever be rectified. One would think in the case of the Hawaiians, organized and a force, they would have a shot given improved public consciousness - if not for full sovereignty, than certainly for land privileges.

I would truly love to visit Hawaii. My parents were just there in October, but my father was first there in 1963 as the guest of a good friend. The friend's Japanese father arrived in 1913, and married a woman of Hawaiian descent. My father was the family's guest on a modest plantation. He was able to explore the more remote locations and sites with such a knowledgeable host.

While my parents returned home in love with the islands, my father regretfully noted how much had changed in 40 years and the diminishment of much that he had found charming.
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  #67  
Old 02-09-2008, 01:55 AM
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I wish it was that simple Czarina. Even with educating people about the issues that have plagued the Hawaiian people including land issues, it would still be a huge battle. The foreigners who have purchased these lands or inherited these lands from their ancestors dont believe they should have to give back any land. The fact is the majority of "land owners" in Hawaii either dont understand or dont want to accept that they are in control of land that basically does not belong to them, at least not legally. This goes back to the missionary days when they decided it was time to become self sufficient and not rely on the church anymore. They were given some lands but not huge amounts unless they happened to marry a chiefess. As time went on, the illegal overthrow happened and the new "government", quite a few being the offspring of the original missionaries, decided to divide the lands according to how they saw fit and became multi-billionaires and still are to this day. There are still huge amounts of land that are undeveloped that the Hawaiian people are constantly battling in court for but sometimes its a losing battle since they have no money to go through a lengthy court process. So in the meantime there are groups out there that are trying to go toe to toe through the court system and believe it or not there have been a few cases that have been won. Its a difficult subject but worth studying. A good book for you, "Hawaii's Story by Hawaii's Queen" or a book I think is called "The Betrayal of Queen Liliuokalani".
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  #68  
Old 02-09-2008, 03:06 AM
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There are still huge amounts of land that are undeveloped that the Hawaiian people are constantly battling in court for but sometimes its a losing battle since they have no money to go through a lengthy court process.
Several cases of the wealthy buying up land like crazy:

Oprah purchased sacred land on the outskirts of Hana, Maui. The land she bought is extensive and in order to keep out the public from "her" beach, she set-up a giant barbwire fence.

Peter Guber, owner of the Tara Plantation at Papa'a Bay (you know the place I am talking about Lady Gabrielle.) He bought a large plot of land, cut off the public access to the beach, so he could have his "privacy." Read more about it here and here

Pierce Bronson owns several houses all over the islands, and is one of the worst offenders when it comes to respecting the 'aina. Read more here.

Some big whoop-dee-doo fashion designer also bought land in Maui.

In Wainiha, there is a battle regarding a man who bought a plot of land that is located on an ancient burial site. Read the story here

Quote:
Concerned community members from Kealia to Ha‘ena asked the council to stop {removed name for privacy of the party} from building a house where archaeologists have found 30 burials and scattered remains — believed to be part of a Polynesian cemetery some eight centuries old
Another owner, next to that plot of land, next to it, happens to be:

Quote:
Red Hot Chili Peppers lead singer Anthony Kiedis to build homes on adjacent lots in the Wainiha...
The major problem is real estate agents, and Mainland developers, on all the islands who sell acres and acres of sacred 'aina to outsiders who really don't care about Hawai'i.

All they care about is buying a chunk of land so they can build their McMansions on the beach with giant gates. Many do not give back to the community, drive like crazy on small two laned roads, and expect the "star" treatment when they are there. The locals are fed up with it and on some of the islands, specifically O'ahu, they are fighting back which varies from island to island.

As I've noted before, I don't think Hawai'i would or could financially remove itself from the US. Outright sovereignty may be economically impossible. In regards to Statehood, I've been told by many people over the years that they regret it, and wished it never happened.
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  #69  
Old 02-13-2008, 12:18 AM
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I agree with you G.T. Its not about the sacredness of the land to these people but the amount of land they can buy and the view. I am aware of the land where the 30 sites were found and who is involved. I have to laugh because the "owner" said he wanted to protect some of the sites and might have to move some of the others to a different area. These people dont understand what these areas mean to the Hawaiian people. Burial sites are sacred and I always make the comment that what would these same people do if we were to buy an area where their loved ones were buried and decided to build there and in the process dug up the bones of their family members, I doubt that they would be o.k. with it. But its o.k. for them to come to Hawaii and do what they please just because they have the money to do so? That is so wrong! Its the same on every other island Im afraid. Its a sad situation and quite frustrating. Its a never ending battle. Thanks for the other links to read. I appreciate your input as always.
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  #70  
Old 02-13-2008, 03:57 PM
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GT, when we were in Maui last month, we were told that Rupert Murdoch now owns 90% of the island of Lanai. Any truth to that?
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  #71  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:25 PM
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I believe the family bought out Castle and Cooke sometime ago which had a stake (or part of, I forget) in the old Dole pineapple industry (98% of the land was used for pineapple cultivation.) However, when the industry fell the company turned to mega luxury resorts on the island. Now, every single local who lives on the island is a slave, er, "housekeeper", to the wealthy who visit Lanai.

Don't be fooled by these mega corporations who say they are bringing jobs to the islands. The only jobs they give to the people of Hawai'i are below the line jobs hence maids, bellhops, valets, garden workers, and so forth. A majority of the top of the line jobs is reserved for Mainland employees. These companies relocate them to the islands along with a generous packages. Complaints have been going on for years, but the Hawaiian government hasn't done a darn thing about it, but then again can they?

Take for example The Disney Company. The company bought a huge piece of land on the Westside of O'ahu and plan to build a mega Disney resort in the tradition of Disney Orlando, but with a Lilo and Stitch feel (which is offensive to many of the Kanaka I personally know, but that's another story.) Meetings were held after the big media announcement back in late September early October when I was there, and the locals voiced their concerns regarding the exploitation of the Hawaiian culture, 'aina, and the people. Disney assured them jobs, but when the people found out what they were applying for, maids and butlers, as well as the pay, which is min. wage, once again they cried foul. Asked about higher up positions, Disney danced around the question. Again, higher paying positions are reserved for Mainland employees.

Something is very wrong here. Exploitation of the culture for monetary gain... hmm sound familiar? The overthrow, anyone?
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  #72  
Old 02-13-2008, 07:26 PM
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DISNEY!!!!! Say it isnt so! One of the things I love most about the Hawaiian Islands is that for the most part they are undeveloped in huge swaths, except around Honolulu. My sister was a chef at Roy Yamaguchi's in Kahana for years and it was my excuse to slip off to Maui on the slightest of excuses. When is this Lilo and Stitch perversion supposed to get under way?
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2008, 10:44 AM
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Here are more photos of Kaiulani.









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  #74  
Old 02-16-2008, 02:48 PM
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Absolutely fantastic, Anastasia Evidence. Thank you.

I have a soft spot for Crown Princess Ka'iulani. She along with Queen Emma, King Kalakaua are among my favorites and most interested in of all the Hawaiian monarchs.


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DISNEY!!!!! Say it isnt so! One of the things I love most about the Hawaiian Islands is that for the most part they are undeveloped in huge swaths, except around Honolulu. My sister was a chef at Roy Yamaguchi's in Kahana for years and it was my excuse to slip off to Maui on the slightest of excuses. When is this Lilo and Stitch perversion supposed to get under way?
The new Disney () Hotel will near Kapolei in the Ko Olina area. We'll see what happens, but the only positive thing I can say is that it will create jobs (even though there not high paying positions) in an area that is trying to revive (if that's the right word) itself hence Kapolei.

When you fly into Honolulu Airport, and you are sitting on the left hand side of the plane, you will be able to see it in all it's tacky glory once construction is complete.

On a lighter more interesting note, I've been researching a particular subject now, and I found some amazing information (primary sources not available online) regarding King Kalakaua. Later, when I have a chance, I'll post my findings.

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  #75  
Old 02-18-2008, 01:33 PM
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Your welcome Glittering Tiara's. Thanks! I have so more that are rare but since I don't know where I got them from I may not want to post at all. I am very glad you like the photos I showed.
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  #76  
Old 02-18-2008, 02:39 PM
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Most of the rare photos you find on the 'net are from `Iolani Palace Archives, Bishop Museum Archives, HHS, KHS, DoH, HSA, UoM, Gutenberg.org, Hulih`e Palace, HawaiianKingdom.org, and so forth.

Here is an interesting article, with photos from Nov 2001 courtesy of the Honolulu Star Bulletin.

Enjoy.
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  #77  
Old 02-18-2008, 06:35 PM
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David Kalakua?
We are going back to Kaua'i in a week. We have time shares which gives us a good excuse to go over every other year. We will stay in Maui next time.
When we were on Oahu, the descendants of the missionaries were at Queen Emma's Summer Palace told us they thought with all the building on Oahu that it would tip the island!
Oh they had lovely things in the Summer Palace! I was amazed at the feather standards and that the islanders realized that there was limited birds so they were on a catch and release program for the prized colors of the feathers to put in the standards.
I would suggest anybody over in Oahu to see the Summer Palace and the wealth of information that these ladies have about the Hawai'ian Royal Family. Their love of the islands keeps the memories alive.
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  #78  
Old 02-18-2008, 09:09 PM
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Yes, His Majesty's English name was David, but most, Kanakas that I have known all my life, prefer to call him by his Hawaiian name La`amea Kamanakapu`u Mahinulani Nalaiaehuokalani Lumialani Kalākaua.

Have fun in da islands. Your lucky you are going now and not several weeks ago... rain and floods galore!


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would suggest anybody over in Oahu to see the Summer Palace and the wealth of information that these ladies have about the Hawai'ian Royal Family
They are called he Daughters of Hawai'i, and they are the caretakers of Her Majesty's memory.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:04 PM
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One of the first things I'm gonna do after getting my fill of Katsu chicken and kahlua pig is a nice big chocolate macadamia nut ice cream from Lapperts! It's Noka oh! And I know I spelt that wrong!!!
We will most likely hit the museum there again. Been 4 years since I've been. Kaua'i doesn't have as much history on it, but it sure is beautiful!
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:17 PM
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Kaua'i doesn't have as much history on it, but it sure is beautiful!
You can't be serious? You've never heard of Kaumualii? Perhaps you should pick up the book Kaua'i: A Seperate Kingdom by Edward Joesting at Border's at Kukui Grove, and/or visit the Kaua'i Museum for a long guided tour.

Unfortunately, my Tutu is no longer living; she used to give tours and talk about the old days on Kaua'i and Moloka'i to tourists. Now the torch has been passed to others. You might want to stop by Limahuli Gardens and take a guided tour. They'll tell you all about the history and 'aina of Kaua'i.
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