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  #21  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:23 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Okay Genevieve....

First off, I found this section from a book I was reading on the Spanish Royal Family..it should clear up where and why they chose to live where they live.

The Palacio Real (Royal Palace) is the largest palace in Europe. The actual name is the Palacio Oriente (East Palace), but it is hardly ever referred to by that name. It has 2,800 rooms, over 110 (main) doors, 870 window, 270 balconies and 44 staircases and a banquet hall with a table that can seat 140 people! It was used by the Kings and Queen of Spain from 1734 until 1931. It was originally commissioned by Felipe V in 1734 and construction took 26 years. During that time two more kings, Carlos III and Carlos IV also influenced the design and decor. The current King of Spain, Juan Carlos I lives in the more modest Zarzuela Palace outside of Madrid, but the Palacio Royal is still used for state occasions.
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:32 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Also, the Crown Prince of Yugoslavia was allowed back into one of the palaces in his homeland.

You are correct, the K an Q of Greece live in a very modest house in London and lost a major lawsuit back in 2002 for Mon Repos and Tatoi...two places the Greek Royal Family owned outright.

The Queen of England owns outright Balmoral and Sandringham as her private property .

Prince Charles owns outright Highgrove as his personal property.

The Crown Prince of Italy renounced all claims to the throne and posessions in order to be able to get back into his country in 2002. He lives in Switzerland.

The MANY, MANY branches of the German Royal family from the Hoenzollerns to the the former heads of Baden, Hoenloe, Hanover, and all the rest of them made out the best after WWII, each family pretty much has the castles that have been in their families for generations....maybe not in Berlin for the Hoenzollerns, but yes they do in the country.

I find it ironic that out of all the ousted royal families..the German ones would still have access and own their palaces and still live in Germany.

My biggest pet peeve about this, if you are a memeber of a royal family who owned in your own name, property or jewels as personal property, like I own my own home, then damn it NO government should be able to keep them 60 years after the war ended. These governments behaved in a disgraceful manner and should give everything back.

There are still Habsburgs fighting today for their personal property to be restored to them.
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  #23  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:41 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Prince Charles owns outright Highgrove as his personal property.
The Duchy of Cornwall owns Highgrove. It's certainly his personal residence, but I don't know if it's correct to say he owns it outright.

Quote:
My biggest pet peeve about this, if you are a memeber of a royal family who owned in your own name, property or jewels as personal property, like I own my own home, then damn it NO government should be able to keep them 60 years after the war ended. These governments behaved in a disgraceful manner and should give everything back.
That rather depends on why the monarch was got rid of in the first place. Part of the reason why the Romanovs were ousted is that they were considered to be parasites, living in extreme luxury while the vast majority of people lived in extreme poverty. Same for the French monarchy. It would have made a mockery of the revolutions in those countries if the royals had been able to keep everything they had at the time they were deposed.

Obviously things are different for the king of Greece, since we aren't talking about huge palaces and a population in the last extremes of poverty. But I think things should be taken on a case-by-case basis since situations are so different.
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  #24  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:46 PM
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Hi Elspeth,

You are right, I checked on the Prince's Highgrove home.

Did the Romanov's own any of their homes as personal property?

I do differ with you though.....no matter which royal family did what, if they owned personal property and the government confiscated it, well, they should fight like hell to get it back.

Maybe that is the American in me talking but I firmly believe in that....imagine how you would feel if the government took your personal property, houses, jewels, whatever and then threw you out of the country.

I am not saying any of these royals are perfect, but what's right is right....the same goes for all the Jews who had property, jewels, paintings taken from them during WWII....all these governments should give them back...they did nothing wrong to deserve it.
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  #25  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:53 PM
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Maybe that is the American in me talking but I firmly believe in that....imagine how you would feel if the government took your personal property, houses, jewels, whatever and then threw you out of the country.
I think the American way is also to acknowledge fairness. You don't expect industrialists to get to keep everything if they've been found to be stealing from their shareholders, employees, and customers. If the ruling class has been effectively stealing from the people by keeping them in servitude and exempting the rich from taxation, and if the ruling class isn't willing to ever let up, then at some point or another, the people are going to decide that all that wealth doesn't really belong to the rulers because it was stolen. And they're going to want it back. The Romanovs treated the Russian people abominably for many years; IMO there's no justification for the descendants to start demanding the return of the Kremlin and other palaces.
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  #26  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:01 PM
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If you own property outright you purchased with your money, then you should keep it.

I do not think the Romanovs owned the Kremlin and other palaces in Moscow...but I could be wrong, and given the past government and current one, their situation is a little different from the Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Yugoslavian families.

Many Coburgs, Hoenloes, Hanovers, Hoenzollerns, and Hesses were involved in the Nazi government from forming the Gestapo downward...many of Prince Philip's brothers-in-law were Nazis.

Do you believe that many of their descendents should get to live in the various castles and palaces they still have today?

As I said before, they were the families who made out the best after WWII.
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:27 PM
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If you own property outright you purchased with your money, then you should keep it.
That depends where "your money" came from. If most of the population of your country doesn't consist of people with basic human freedoms and if they live under a system of indentured servitude, then "your money" is pretty much the same sort of money as that of a slave owner. Rulership cuts both ways - the rulers have wealth and privilege, but they also have responsibilities to the people they rule. The Romanovs in the late 19th and early 20th century, and the French ruling class in the 18th century, had a lot of the former and gave nothing back. That money wasn't just theirs.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:50 PM
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In the Theo Aronson book there was a mention the contents especially furniture
was purchased in bulk by Queen Sofie from English departent store not pricless valubable antiques and the Greek royals didn't have access to the millions the Ramanov's did. I always thought it was odd when reading about how Empress Alexandra had the girls stash and sew jewels in the undergarments that they would have sold for future use abroad- to my russian relatives it is theft.
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2005, 05:29 PM
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Elspeth,

You doing bring some very excellent points up. I guess in some regards it would be case by case.

But I am still amazed the German Royals still have much property and jewels intact.....and I mean all the various Hoenzollerns right down to the former royals of the duchys, landgraves, etc.
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  #30  
Old 06-08-2005, 08:11 PM
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Yes - I don't know quite why the Greek government is being so intransigent when so many of the German royals are so much better off than the Greek royal family. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that the Greek monarch is still a viable potential alternative to the present goverment, which feels threatened by the royals as a result and is determined to marginalise them, whereas the German royals are sort of like the Indian princes - leaders of small sections of society but no real threat to the government - and so the republican leaders can afford to be generous.
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  #31  
Old 06-08-2005, 09:06 PM
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That is a great point!

I know the Greek government was not happy at all when the invitations to Pavlos's wedding went out addressed as:

The King and Queen of the Hellenes request your presence........

They were sent to various Greek ministers and the government had a fit when they heard about this.

They are so determined to keep him out of Greece as I agree with you, they see him as a threat to potentially wanting to reclaim the throne if he could get the people on his side.

Although, I doubt that will ever happen...........but you never know...look at Spain.

Heck, King Simeon is the Prime Minister now in Bulgaria, and there is talk of wanting to restore him to the throne.
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  #32  
Old 06-08-2005, 10:50 PM
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I have this question to ask; can a non-ruling monarch grant sashes/orders to other royalty (ruling and non-ruling)?
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  #33  
Old 06-08-2005, 11:01 PM
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Yes, and the only reason I think that is because you see the Greek, Italian, and German Royals wearing sashes.....unless maybe they came from ruling houses?

I know at Frederick and Mary's wedding the Greek and Italian royals had various sashes on.

Elspeth, what do you think on this?
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  #34  
Old 06-08-2005, 11:34 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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No idea, actually. I doubt it, because they aren't representing their countries if they're not ruling monarchs. I wouldn't have thought that sashes from non-ruling families would be worth much, even if they could give them. It's also possible that non-royal heads of state can confer orders on other heads of state; there's a thread somewhere about sashes and I think there was a reference to a Finnish one and a German one of some sort.

OK, found it:

Sashes
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  #35  
Old 06-08-2005, 11:44 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Thank you!! :)

What makes it even more interesting is to see Marie Chantal wearing a different one from Pavlos....but then they usually wear the Order of the Elephant which is the light blue sash....I am almost positive that is a Danish order....from Anne Marie's sister the Queen no doubt? :)
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  #36  
Old 06-09-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by His Lordship
It has 2,800 rooms,
Holy smokes! 2800 rooms?! whoa...i wonder if all the rooms have ever been occupied in one time....lol
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  #37  
Old 06-09-2005, 01:50 PM
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Can you imagine playing Hide and Seek in that palace? You would be hidden for months before someone found you. :)
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  #38  
Old 06-09-2005, 02:23 PM
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Must be murder trying to house-train a dog in a place that size. It'd take twenty minutes to find a door to the outside.
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  #39  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:08 AM
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Coming back to lost castles etc., Ernst-August of Hannover is still trying to get back property which had ended up behind the Iron Curtain.
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
Coming back to lost castles etc., Ernst-August of Hannover is still trying to get back property which had ended up behind the Iron Curtain.
I think they gave it up some years ago because of a ruling of the European Court of Human Right in Strasbourg. He and also some other landowners of property in former East-Germany tried to get it back but it was ruled against them. I know that some (but mostly minor nobles) were able to get their castles (probably better to say manors) back by purchasing it because they weren't used by anyone and the state (or whoever owned them) wanted to sell them.
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