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  #61  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:12 PM
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One of the biggest swedish forums Flashback is usually wery negative against the king, now many of those are more negative against the newspapers themselves.

Expressen saying its a big story around the world, from what i asked people it isnt.

The newspapers are used to people "obeying them" when a scandal happens and resign. The king dont do as they say and they become more aggressive against the king and less against Victoria

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
That interview, which I saw, was astonishing in the Clintonesque-like shrug-off of questions and wordplay. Add to that the tremendous number of "um," "ah," and "er" phrases being spoken, it's clear to see that there is a lot of obsfucation going on.
Well, Clinton openly lied "I did not have sex with that woman ms Lewinsky" but the king said " i dont remember". Thus if the media finds out he was at a club the court can just say "well, he never said he wasnt, did he?"
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  #62  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:24 PM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
Well, Clinton openly lied "I did not have sex with that woman ms Lewinsky" but the king said " i dont remember". Thus if the media finds out he was at a club the court can just say "well, he never said he wasnt, did he?"
In case there are compromising pictures the King will say "I didnt remember" but at the end of the day its a technicality. Bottom line is who lies disqualifies himself from the job. It was with Clinton, will be the same with the King.

The difference to Clinton is that he got voted into his job, and as a consequence people knew his time was limited since he either can be voted off or, in his case, cannot run for office again.

In contrast, the King is there to remain therefore this topic will not just go away, people will have a different mindset with the person representing the constitution being an alledged liar, having shady contacts etc. staying on the job until he drops dead.
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  #63  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
The Swedish press seem to agree with you on this.
Swedish press reacts to royal denials - The Local - m.thelocal.se
Neither the Government nor the opposition has demanded an investigation. Notwithstanding this alleged scandal has 72% of the people confidence in the monarchy. The King of Sweden does not allocate the newspapers even though the Republicans' fires during the fire. "

Feels like it is again time to dust off this quote;

"Those who imagine that a politician would make a better figurehead than a hereditary monarch might perhaps make the acquaintance of more politicians."
(Margareth Thatcher.)
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  #64  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karisma View Post
Neither the Government nor the opposition has demanded an investigation. Notwithstanding this alleged scandal has 72% of the people confidence in the monarchy. The King of Sweden does not allocate the newspapers even though the Republicans' fires during the fire. "
the confidence dropped by 8 points after the kings speach according to a SIFO poll(cant remember if it was reported by Expressen or Aftonbladet)
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  #65  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
One of the biggest swedish forums Flashback is usually wery negative against the king, now many of those are more negative against the newspapers themselves.

Expressen saying its a big story around the world, from what i asked people it isnt.

The newspapers are used to people "obeying them" when a scandal happens and resign. The king dont do as they say and they become more aggressive against the king and less against Victoria
So it is! The people in Sweden begin to turn against the scandal press, unconfirmed stories. Several groups have been formed, including the up, in support of the monarch. Although I do not share the view so it may be curious to mention that the group "Let the King go to the strip club" already has over 100,000 members ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
the confidence dropped by 8 points after the kings speach according to a SIFO poll(cant remember if it was reported by Expressen or Aftonbladet)
But 72% is still high when compared with other monarchies. Denmark has been near 50% and both UK (Diana and Camilla story) and Norway (Mette-Marit's past) have been under 50%
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  #66  
Old 06-03-2011, 04:02 PM
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Consistency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
TRF is a message board, not the court of law. Its rather bad behaviour to ask members to shut up when not agreeing with their opinions.
I agree with you on this point, Duke of Marmalade. But in practice, this is not the case. One has only to speak negatively about a member of the Danish family and several responses similar to the one which you responded to will show up very quickly. This has happened time and time again to the point that those threads are closed.

Which brings up an interesting point...how does this thread - which thus far has no evidence (which has been demanded by others in some of the other threads) - which is completely based on hearsay, rumors, and conjecture both within the TRF community and the mainstream media allowed to run for this many pages without being closed?
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  #67  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
I agree with you on this point, Duke of Marmalade. But in practice, this is not the case. One has only to speak negatively about a member of the Danish family and several responses similar to the one which you responded to will show up very quickly. This has happened time and time again to the point that those threads are closed.

Which brings up an interesting point...how does this thread - which thus far has no evidence (which has been demanded by others in some of the other threads) - which is completely based on hearsay, rumors, and conjuction both within the TRF community and the mainstream media allowed to run for this many pages without being closed?
There is at least one fact: the King felt obliged to give a tv-interview to answer to the rumors. So it is not only about hearsay and rumors.
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  #68  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:38 PM
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You really hit the nail on the head!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattep74 View Post
the confidence dropped by 8 points after the kings speach according to a SIFO poll(cant remember if it was reported by Expressen or Aftonbladet)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
I agree with you on this point, Duke of Marmalade. But in practice, this is not the case. One has only to speak negatively about a member of the Danish family and several responses similar to the one which you responded to will show up very quickly. This has happened time and time again to the point that those threads are closed.

Which brings up an interesting point...how does this thread - which thus far has no evidence (which has been demanded by others in some of the other threads) - which is completely based on hearsay, rumors, and conjuction both within the TRF community and the mainstream media allowed to run for this many pages without being closed?
Very good question! Probably will be the well-struck if not the issue for "everyone". For you really hit the nail on the head! Thanks!
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  #69  
Old 06-03-2011, 07:46 PM
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Just a few points:

- What is the offense here? going to a strip club? I can see that it may be embarrassing for the king and his family, may be a lapse in judgement, but is it illegal in Sweden? is it a crime? as far as I know it is not.

- Is anybody claiming he "hired" and paid prostitutes?

- The only "offense" I can see here is that as King he is supposed to be a role model for the country, again this goes to the bad judgement but not illegal. You mean no king has been around strippers before? :-) Difference is in the old days (100 yrs ago) they would simply bring the strippers to the king instead of him going to them...

The unfortunate situation in all this is how it was handled. Surprising because I think back in November he handled the publication of the affair rather well: He did not deny anything. saying it's in the past, let's move on. Personally I would have stuck to something along the same lines: I was once young, I went to night clubs a few times, I may have made mistakes; it's in the past- And stress that he did not do go to any illegal clubs - assuming he didn't-. I think this would have been a good statement, this would diffuse the rumours and most people would yawn after a day or 2.

Another factor that made this worse is the "friend" who tried to buy off the supposed pictures. Bad move. Bad timing.

Then the interview: it could be that a naive, full of himself king thought he would just give a polite interview and all will be well. Little did he realize an ill prepared interview would make things worse.

Last point- As for the journalists and anyone else adding fuel to the fire: you mean none of them has ever been to a strip club? Right!
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  #70  
Old 06-04-2011, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
- What is the offense here? going to a strip club? I can see that it may be embarrassing for the king and his family, may be a lapse in judgement, but is it illegal in Sweden? is it a crime? as far as I know it is not.

- Is anybody claiming he "hired" and paid prostitutes?

- The only "offense" I can see here is that as King he is supposed to be a role model for the country, again this goes to the bad judgement but not illegal. You mean no king has been around strippers before? :-) Difference is in the old days (100 yrs ago) they would simply bring the strippers to the king instead of him going to them...

The unfortunate situation in all this is how it was handled. Surprising because I think back in November he handled the publication of the affair rather well: He did not deny anything. saying it's in the past, let's move on. Personally I would have stuck to something along the same lines: I was once young, I went to night clubs a few times, I may have made mistakes; it's in the past- And stress that he did not do go to any illegal clubs - assuming he didn't-. I think this would have been a good statement, this would diffuse the rumours and most people would yawn after a day or 2.

Another factor that made this worse is the "friend" who tried to buy off the supposed pictures. Bad move. Bad timing.

Then the interview: it could be that a naive, full of himself king thought he would just give a polite interview and all will be well. Little did he realize an ill prepared interview would make things worse.

Last point- As for the journalists and anyone else adding fuel to the fire: you mean none of them has ever been to a strip club? Right!
Its not so much about a potential crime that will be heard in a court of law but about the moral values that a Head of State should represent - while standing for the institution AND in private life.

Obviously the King has mingled with criminals / shady individuals or at least was in very bad company, hiring prostitutes / sex trafficing is illegal in Sweden. Plus denying compromising photos in case some will come to light, the King potentially being subject to blackmail, the King's people trying to bully or intimidate journalists etc etc. certainly doesnt help the image of the monarchy.

The fact that the King decided to do this interview speaks volumes to me, there has to be more to come what is the difficult thing, for months now there have been discussions, rumours etc and I am sure we havent seen the bottom of it.

Back when the first scandal broke the King should have cleaned the air completely, admitting what was to admit despite massive embarrassment and then move on.
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  #71  
Old 06-04-2011, 04:48 AM
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Acconrding to Expressen and Iltasanomat, Camilla Henemark has already signed a publishing contract about a book, on which she tells about her relationship with king Carl Gustaf.
Kaarle Kustaa ristitulessa: Taas uusi paljastuskirja - Ilta-Sanomat
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  #72  
Old 06-04-2011, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Acconrding to Expressen and Iltasanomat, Camilla Henemark has already signed a publishing contract about a book, on which she tells about her relationship with king Carl Gustaf.
Kaarle Kustaa ristitulessa: Taas uusi paljastuskirja - Ilta-Sanomat
Camilla Henemark have every reason to try to make as much money as she can. She has been homeless people sleeping rough due to abuse and mental illness. (Manic depression). Because of these sad circumstances, she was financially destitute and had large debts to the state. I happen to know a lot about bipolar disorder and know that the patient can do just about anything to achieve their objectives. Way too into these details and let us wait and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Its not so much about a potential crime that will be heard in a court of law but about the moral values that a Head of State should represent - while standing for the institution AND in private life.

Obviously the King has mingled with criminals / shady individuals or at least was in very bad company, hiring prostitutes / sex trafficing is illegal in Sweden. Plus denying compromising photos in case some will come to light, the King potentially being subject to blackmail, the King's people trying to bully or intimidate journalists etc etc. certainly doesnt help the image of the monarchy.

The fact that the King decided to do this interview speaks volumes to me, there has to be more to come what is the difficult thing, for months now there have been discussions, rumours etc and I am sure we havent seen the bottom of it.

Back when the first scandal broke the King should have cleaned the air completely, admitting what was to admit despite massive embarrassment and then move on.
In a democratic rule applies to a person is innocent until they are proven guilty. In my opinion, is Duke of Marmelade on with far too much speculation. It is also inconsistent when one of the other forums not allowed to make speculative posts. To spend so much time "if somone said or did something" and the speculative consequences - I think this is unworthy of a TRF Author.
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  #73  
Old 06-05-2011, 02:22 PM
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Sounds like a lot of this is stuff that can not be proven one way or another. One can say anything and usually when they do it's vague or something that can't be confirmed. When questioned further, the person can't give names, dates when things occurred,etc. Usually if there is proof, then something materializes.

You see stuff like this all the time in American politics and people in politics often used this against their opponents and they know how to use this without it coming back on them.
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  #74  
Old 06-05-2011, 02:43 PM
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I guess we have to wait a couple of months until the biography of Mille Markovic is published, he promised to publish the photos then.
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  #75  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:06 PM
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what i see is that victoria is the pilar of the srf right now.
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  #76  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:13 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong but I believed the King enjoys immunity from prosecution. I suppose these alleged transgressions can only be tried in the media to the point where he will be forced to abdicate. If the intentions of the republicans or antimonarchists is this outcome, I am sure they also understand this will wound the monarchy besides the King.
I am not condoning his actions (if true) but if they cannot be prosecuted, why the headlines and the demands?
Lastly, when was he supposed to have been patronising the strip clubs? Are these allegations connected with the book revelations or are more recent?
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  #77  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:30 PM
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There is what we in Sweden call a "media-drev" against the king going on now (media is "attacking" and fueling emotions against someone)

That a tabloid paper screams for the king to abdicate is not that supriceing - they do that from time to time... You should remember that practacly all the media in Sweden is republicans and want to abolish the monarchy as fast as possible and they offcourse throw themself on any news that could raise the debate a little to get closer to what they all want - for Sweden to become a republic - so that we can have what they call a full democrazy. They seems to think that once that happen everything will be just great in Sweden...

About the interview with the King - not the smartest idea i would think - but he only behaved like he always does, mumbles and look unconfertable and not answering the questions directly, he was acctually more direct with his answer now then usally, so i guess that all you who was horrified by his body-laungue hasn´t seen him in an interview before?

The serious thing about the accusations is weather the king knew about the contact with the criminal to buy the pictures or not - and he says he hasn´t had anything to do with that so i belive that. Then he denied that there could be any photos of him in a compromising situation - there he upped that stake - if IF there would come any pictures with him in any such situations then he is s*reawed - he then might be forced to abdicate - we can´t have a king that´s lying. But i don´t think that will happen, I trust the king, and maybe all that comes from the criminal is some bad attempt to photoshop the king into a comprimising situation.

That´s my opinion on this "issue".
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  #78  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:16 AM
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It's spread beyond Scandinavia now..

Swedish king in strip club scandal - Yahoo! News
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  #79  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:38 AM
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Rather surprisingly, Swedish journalist and historian Herman Lindqvist appeared on Swedish TV, where he criticized the King's decision to do the interview sharply and said that he considers all of the King's denials to be untrue.
Besides writing popular history books, Lindqvist was the private history tutor of Crown Princess Victoria and published the book 'Princess with the times' in collaboration with the Palace.

Link:
Herman Lindqvist: "Alla nej han säger är inte sanna" - Nyheter - Senaste nytt | Expressen - Nyheter Sport Ekonomi Nöje
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  #80  
Old 06-06-2011, 03:45 PM
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No matter what, you have to admire the dedication of the Queen. Scandals or not, she wears her national costume and goes out for the annual ride.
I still do not understand why he had to give the interview. The supposed visits to the strip clubs were part of the book he acknowledged back when and admited that things were done in the past but he moved on...He should have left it at that and should not have contributed any more...JMHO
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