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  #201  
Old 12-05-2011, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
Thanks for the info, Stefan. I was not aware of Wilhelmina "downgrading" to Princess when she abdicated, nor that it is now a law. Still under current practices and current Swedish law, wouldn't CG & Silvia would still be referred to as King and Queen? That is unless they also chose to voluntary change their titles?
I would be surprised if they kept their titles. Constantine and Anne-Marie are a different matter entirely - their country abolished its monarchy, and there was no new King and Queen to take their place. I think a closer parallel than the Dutch Queens who retired and became Princesses would be the other modern monarch who abdicated in disgrace, King Edward VIII, who became merely the Duke of Windsor.
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  #202  
Old 12-05-2011, 08:38 PM
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You keep hearing that certain people have proof of these things that the King supposedly did but some of these things have basically been allegations and no actual proof. Since this stuff came out over a year ago, you would think that the allegations or if any picture or pictures existed regarding this matter would be either proven or disproven one way or another.

Until the government or the public is satisifed with the answers given or the allegations are proven to be false (right now it looks like it hasn't been proven but it hasn't been disproven either), then these issues and questions will come up over and over again.
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  #203  
Old 12-05-2011, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
Oh, dear. Things aren't looking good are they?
This is the exact same thing I was thinking - oh, dear... What a mess.
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  #204  
Old 12-05-2011, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by efraimsdotter View Post
I'd just like to add that this business with the clubs and "coffee girls", which has now become a Swedish expression, did not only take place when the king was young, but allegedly when he was a middle aged man.

Although I personally think it is morally disgusting that a married man and father goes to sex parties, it is not illegal (it could be, though, if some of the girls were prostitutes). The problem in this case is that the king is Head of state and by doing things like these (if he did, that is) he put himself in a position where he can be blackmailed and manipulated by gangsters. Not the kind of good judgment people expect from their king.
It's also problematic because the King should be an example for people to look up to, and how could anyone look up to someone like that? In the US we had Bill Clinton, who did all sorts of things with other women, even in the Oval Office (the equivalent of a Throne Room, I'd guess), and he lowered the image of the presidency.

At least in one sense it's a powerless King who has done these things in Sweden, rather than a powerful President who does such things.
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  #205  
Old 12-06-2011, 01:07 AM
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If the documentation of the King's activities--including a cover-up--exist, I don't think it's unreasonable to suppose that there's been some activity going on by the King's friends to delay the evidence coming forward: negotiations, deal-making, etc. If the person who claims to have "the goods" is interested in blackmail and/or holding out for a better deal, this could slow things down.

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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Since this stuff came out over a year ago, you would think that the allegations or if any picture or pictures existed regarding this matter would be either proven or disproven one way or another.
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  #206  
Old 12-06-2011, 03:44 AM
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The invoice and receipt of the king´s friends paying 625000 SEK to Milan Sevo and Daniel Webb to meet Mille Markovic and try to silence him.
Avslöjade

Har vi fått ett kunga-gate? « Hovbloggen
Google translation
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  #207  
Old 12-06-2011, 03:49 AM
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One can only hope that the next statement of the King - whatever it will be, and there has to be one in due course - is thoroughly thought through and well presented.

This is becoming quite a crossroad that could either save or sink the King. Hopefully he and his advisors are aware and for once take it seriously.
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  #208  
Old 12-06-2011, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
It's also problematic because the King should be an example for people to look up to, and how could anyone look up to someone like that?
Well in the past nearly all kings have done similar things -- I mean infidelities -- but in the old times only rumors has been spread on the quiet..... today things are runnig differently and I do not want to comment the change of today´s press. But: all the times the kings should have been / were an example to look up to.

Honestly I am not REALLY surprised, since I have read the book. Everything is revealed in it. And: as soooo many people has been involved, as his infidelities lasted so many years I did not believe a second, that NO PICTURE AT ALL has been made - at least in secret. So trying to get those "proofs" back is only a logical next step/attempt to keep the scandal on a minimum (i.e. having no "proof" of it).

Nevertheless not an easy time for anyone of the RF. I care less for the king, finally it is all his fault, but poor Queen Silvia and CP Victoria. Thank god Victoria has a strong shoulder to lean at during her pregnancy.
BYe Bine
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  #209  
Old 12-06-2011, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Maura724 View Post
I would be surprised if they kept their titles. Constantine and Anne-Marie are a different matter entirely - their country abolished its monarchy, and there was no new King and Queen to take their place. I think a closer parallel than the Dutch Queens who retired and became Princesses would be the other modern monarch who abdicated in disgrace, King Edward VIII, who became merely the Duke of Windsor.
I think the dtuch Queens and also King Edward VIII. where the exceptions. For example King Léopold III. of the Belgians keept his title as King and also did the luxemburgian monarchs who abdicated.
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  #210  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:59 AM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...y-scandal.html
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  #211  
Old 12-06-2011, 10:15 PM
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The King will keep his crown after all is said and done.
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  #212  
Old 12-06-2011, 10:19 PM
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Why do you think that, Lucy? I think that people are willing to put up with a sexually indiscrete monarch, but one that lies to them? I'm curious as to your reasoning.
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  #213  
Old 12-06-2011, 10:30 PM
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People are generally forgiving about these matters, regardless of whether their family forgives them or not. World leaders, people in public office and celebs are forgiven all the time for similar type things and even worse things than this. That's doesn't make what they've done right but that's the way that it is. That's my reasoning.
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  #214  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:30 PM
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I see your point. In the end, what will decide things is how the politicians in Sweden feel about it. They're the ones who can force an abdication, if it comes to that.
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  #215  
Old 12-07-2011, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
People are generally forgiving about these matters, regardless of whether their family forgives them or not. World leaders, people in public office and celebs are forgiven all the time for similar type things and even worse things than this. That's doesn't make what they've done right but that's the way that it is. That's my reasoning.
I agree. I would also add that when you look back on all of the King's reign doses the good out weigh the bad? If so then I am sure he will survive but of course some who supported him will turn against him. As for his marriage I remember how he was with Silva and I felt it was genuine. Maybe she knows parts of it or all of it. I guess what I am saying is that it is possible that she forgave him. On the other hand I have heard reports suggesting the Queen/family is angry at him.
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  #216  
Old 12-07-2011, 03:58 AM
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I'm so happy that Victoria chose a regular guy who was brought up far away from this upper class tradition of infidelities and sex parties.

I think he is, as someone said earlier, a strong shoulder to lean on in this situation.
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  #217  
Old 12-07-2011, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
People are generally forgiving about these matters, regardless of whether their family forgives them or not. World leaders, people in public office and celebs are forgiven all the time for similar type things and even worse things than this. That's doesn't make what they've done right but that's the way that it is. That's my reasoning.
They might forgive, but they are losing trust. Is there anyone out there today believing what politicians say - no, for exactly that reason.

CG might get away, much will depend on if he choses to come clean or will explain or not. If he continues to ignore and will get away, people will just become fed up with the institution the same way they are already fed up with the political system.

And Victoria is not superwoman, I doubt she can make up for it, she only has little impact, like her father, rather absent siblings and lots of things to worry about on her shoulders.
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  #218  
Old 12-07-2011, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
They might forgive, but they are losing trust. Is there anyone out there today believing what politicians say - no, for exactly that reason.

CG might get away, much will depend on if he choses to come clean or will explain or not. If he continues to ignore and will get away, people will just become fed up with the institution the same way they are already fed up with the political system.

And Victoria is not superwoman, I doubt she can make up for it, she only has little impact, like her father, rather absent siblings and lots of things to worry about on her shoulders.
I have to agree with your assessment of Victoria. I like her, don't get me wrong, but she's no Queen Elizabeth II, at least not yet and she won't be for a good many decades. When all the troubles in early to mid '90s hit the British RF a large part of what carried them through, especially in the Commonwealth nations, was the great love and respect the people had for Elizabeth's selfless service. She'd already been on the throne forty years and people weren't inclined to punish her for the sins of her children. Even to this day, there is still a fair degree of sentiment against Charles ascending to the throne once his mother passes on.

While there might be a great deal of respect and admiration for Victoria by the Swedish people, she's not yet become Queen, so they wouldn't be taking anything from her if they chose to become a republic instead. Do I think that will happen? Not a clue. Only time will give us that answer but I don't think it's a slam dunk that the Swedish monarchy is safe even if CG abdicates in favor of Victoria.
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  #219  
Old 12-07-2011, 10:12 AM
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According to a new poll, 35% of Swedes have little or no faith in the King, 30% support him and the rest are ambivalent. 32% want Victoria to take over the throne. The Monarchy still has the support of 56% of the population.
http://m.thelocal.se/37778/20111207/
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  #220  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:49 PM
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56% approval of the monarchy is awfully low.

Being King of Sweden just has to be one of the best jobs in the world- no stressful responsibilities vs. high prestige and benefits. How could anyone be so stupid as to totally screw up by doing what the King did?
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