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  #181  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:46 PM
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I feel for Victoria as well. I hope it won't come to an abdication. I guess we'll see when it all comes out.
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  #182  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:51 PM
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The chairman of the Committee on the Constitution of Sweden, Peter Eriksson, says that the king himself should initiate an investigation about the scandals.
- It ought also to be in his interest that the truth comes out so we can put an end to this carousel.
If it should turn out that the King had lied, he believes that confidence in the monarchy will fall sharply.
- He is Sweden's representative in many contexts. Of course, citizens must be confident that he is telling the truth. He must be head of state in his own time. It does not work anymore that the king merely comes out as the king himself wants. He needs to become more modern and open in his approach to the media and the people.
Peter Eriksson: Sanningen måste fram | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
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  #183  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:30 PM
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Thanks LadyFinn for all the articles. I agree with Peter Eriksson, it's time that the King himselfs initiates an investigation and ends this, it's gone too far. If it turns out that he lied, well it's up to the swedes and his conscience whether he abdicates or not.
I know I'd feel sorry for Victoria and also Daniel if that happens, they should have time to enjoy their baby and new life as family.
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  #184  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:20 PM
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My 2 cents worth:
What are the facts here as far as we can tell?
The King had an affair a long time ago. Not smart, but not illegal, it is also a private "couple" matter and he did not deny it. "Turn the page" as he said, move on.
He probably attended some "clubs" or parties- In fact he acknowledged in his interview that he went to places like Folies Bergeres. Are there scantily clad women in these clubs? Yes! feathers, pompoms, topless what have you. Striptease, Lap dancing? In some clubs yes. Are such clubs illegal in Sweden? Doubt it. Why is it OK for any person in Sweden to attend such clubs except the king? He was young once, he had a healthy appetite for fun, had a healthy libido- he went to parties, parties may have gotten out of hand. Everyone or almost everyone did something silly in their youth. It seems these former "associates" [and the media] are creating a scandal by bringing up behaviour from the past, - edgy, silly behaviour, probably something the now older king is not too proud of but hardly illegal behaviour.
Did he lie? Well he "waffled" a lot. He is not a good speaker, bungled up an interview , gave a bunch of non answers. That was probably his biggest mistake. -
Let us compare that with another famous royal interview: when Prince Charles acknowledged his adultery many years ago! So he [Charles] did not lie, but was that better PR? no , they dragged him in the mud, crucified him in the media, it took many years to recover if in fact he recovered; [there were and are still many calls for him to be cut from eh succession]. So which is the better strategy about embarrassing moments: to lie or not to lie ? For public figures it seems a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Personally for king Carl Gustav I think the very first answer from a year ago when he said "this was in the past, I turned the page, let's look forward" was the best line.
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  #185  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
My 2 cents worth:
What are the facts here as far as we can tell?
The King had an affair a long time ago. Not smart, but not illegal, it is also a private "couple" matter and he did not deny it. "Turn the page" as he said, move on.
He probably attended some "clubs" or parties- In fact he acknowledged in his interview that he went to places like Folies Bergeres. Are there scantily clad women in these clubs? Yes! feathers, pompoms, topless what have you. Striptease, Lap dancing? In some clubs yes. Are such clubs illegal in Sweden? Doubt it. Why is it OK for any person in Sweden to attend such clubs except the king? He was young once, he had a healthy appetite for fun, had a healthy libido- he went to parties, parties may have gotten out of hand. Everyone or almost everyone did something silly in their youth. It seems these former "associates" [and the media] are creating a scandal by bringing up behaviour from the past, - edgy, silly behaviour, probably something the now older king is not too proud of but hardly illegal behaviour.
Did he lie? Well he "waffled" a lot. He is not a good speaker, bungled up an interview , gave a bunch of non answers. That was probably his biggest mistake. -
Let us compare that with another famous royal interview: when Prince Charles acknowledged his adultery many years ago! So he [Charles] did not lie, but was that better PR? no , they dragged him in the mud, crucified him in the media, it took many years to recover if in fact he recovered; [there were and are still many calls for him to be cut from eh succession]. So which is the better strategy about embarrassing moments: to lie or not to lie ? For public figures it seems a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Personally for king Carl Gustav I think the very first answer from a year ago when he said "this was in the past, I turned the page, let's look forward" was the best line.
It's not so much the King attended sex parties and had affairs. He may or may not have links to the Mafia. A head of state - monarch or not - cannot have such ties.

If the King abdicates, I really feel for Victoria. A new baby and she's suddenly Queen? Not right.

If the monarchy is banned because of this, I also feel for Victoria. She would make a great Queen and should be given a chance.
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  #186  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
It's not so much the King attended sex parties and had affairs. He may or may not have links to the Mafia. A head of state - monarch or not - cannot have such ties.

If the King abdicates, I really feel for Victoria. A new baby and she's suddenly Queen? Not right.

If the monarchy is banned because of this, I also feel for Victoria. She would make a great Queen and should be given a chance.
I'd prefer that he abdicate rather than run the risk of the monarchy being outlawed. I'm ethnically Swedish although am American and so he's in a way my King, too.
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  #187  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:12 PM
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As much as I personally abhor adultery and sleazy clubs, I think that what will determine the King's fate is whether or not he lied about his friend's contacting the criminal who claimed he had incriminating photos of the king. In a way, it's like Watergate: it was the cover-up of the break-in that really brought about Nixon's impeachment. The Head of State must tell the truth to his nation, because he is the physical embodiment of the state, at least in monarchial terms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
It's not so much the King attended sex parties and had affairs. He may or may not have links to the Mafia. A head of state - monarch or not - cannot have such ties.

If the King abdicates, I really feel for Victoria. A new baby and she's suddenly Queen? Not right.

If the monarchy is banned because of this, I also feel for Victoria. She would make a great Queen and should be given a chance.
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  #188  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:53 PM
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I agree with Sonjapearl and Mermaid... The main problem isn't the adultery or strip clubs, it's the lying and the potential cover-up, as well as the association with the mafia. Those last three will be the king's undoing if the allegations are proven to be true.

It's a shame but wouldn't it be quite the coincidence if Victoria were to become Queen in the same year that Elizabeth and Margarethe both celebrate jubilee years on their respective thrones.
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  #189  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:27 AM
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If the king abdicates, would that make Silvia HM Queen Silvia, The Queen Mother, wife of Mr. Bernadotte?
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  #190  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:50 AM
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No, simply Mrs. Bernadotte.
Or Silvia Sommerlath (she was born Silvia Sommerlath)
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  #191  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:54 AM
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If the king abdicates, would that make Silvia HM Queen Silvia, The Queen Mother, wife of Mr. Bernadotte?
Why Mr? He is Prince by birth.
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  #192  
Old 12-05-2011, 12:00 PM
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Actually, based on historical precedent, he would continue to be King and she would continue to be Queen, they just would not be the reigning couple...King Constantine & Queen Anne-Marie are still referred to as such by the royal community. King Simeon and Queen Margarita and King Mihai and Queen Anne are all referred to as such even though they married well after the boy kings had left their respective countries which had also become republics by that time. Queen Juliana of the Netherlands herself decided to become Princess Juliana after her abdication, but that was the exception. Her mother and grandmother did not. Grand Duke Jean, Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte, and Grand Duchess Charlotte did not become "Mr." or "Mrs." after their abdications. Why would there be any difference in Sweden?
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  #193  
Old 12-05-2011, 12:05 PM
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Actually, based on historical precedent, he would continue to be King and she would continue to be Queen, they just would not be the reigning couple...King Constantine & Queen Anne-Marie are still referred to as such by the royal community. King Simeon and Queen Margarita and King Mihai and Queen Anne are all referred to as such even though they married well after the boy kings had left their respective countries which had also become republics by that time. Queen Juliana of the Netherlands herself decided to become Princess Juliana after her abdication, but that was the exception. Her mother and grandmother did not. Grand Duke Jean, Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte, and Grand Duchess Charlotte did not become "Mr." or "Mrs." after their abdications. Why would there be any difference in Sweden?
Actually Queen Julioan followed the esample of her mother who also choose to be known as Princess Wilhelmina after her abdication. And now it's even in the Law about the membership of the Royal House which means if Queen Beatrix abdicates she will also become Princess Beatrix again.
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  #194  
Old 12-05-2011, 01:09 PM
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I cannot say that I'm shocked by this. Many other people who are public figures/in the limelight have done a lot worse (not that it should excuse the King's actions). I think that perhaps the best course to take would be to do an investigation, as has been suggested earlier in the thread. If the King is leading the said investigation, then perhaps he can be seen in a little better light.

My sympathy at this point is with Victoria and Queen Silvia. It can't be easy watching your parents' marriage fall apart, and go out with a smile on your face (and carry a child too). Nor is it easy to know that the man whom you married and trusted has been involved in some (possibly) shady business, and has been unfaithful to boot.
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  #195  
Old 12-05-2011, 01:27 PM
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I'd just like to add that this business with the clubs and "coffee girls", which has now become a Swedish expression, did not only take place when the king was young, but allegedly when he was a middle aged man.

Although I personally think it is morally disgusting that a married man and father goes to sex parties, it is not illegal (it could be, though, if some of the girls were prostitutes). The problem in this case is that the king is Head of state and by doing things like these (if he did, that is) he put himself in a position where he can be blackmailed and manipulated by gangsters. Not the kind of good judgment people expect from their king.
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  #196  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Daria_S View Post
I cannot say that I'm shocked by this. Many other people who are public figures/in the limelight have done a lot worse (not that it should excuse the King's actions). I think that perhaps the best course to take would be to do an investigation, as has been suggested earlier in the thread. If the King is leading the said investigation, then perhaps he can be seen in a little better light.

My sympathy at this point is with Victoria and Queen Silvia. It can't be easy watching your parents' marriage fall apart, and go out with a smile on your face (and carry a child too). Nor is it easy to know that the man whom you married and trusted has been involved in some (possibly) shady business, and has been unfaithful to boot.
My sentiments exactly, Daria, especially when you read so much about politicians the world over and their various scandals. And I'm not just sympathetic to the Queen and Victoria, but also to Madeleine and Carl Philip. If their absence from the country on an extended basis is due to this reason, it's certainly understandable, although I'm sure Silvia could sure use their support now.
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  #197  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:25 PM
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The politicians and political scientists think that this is the biggest crisis the king has been in and that he must tell the truth.
Norwegian political and monarchy scientist Carl-Erik Grimstad says that the king will hand over a bankrupt in trust for his daughter. This is a scandal of major proportions. Without a doubt, the largest crisis ever of the Swedish head of state. Sweden can not have a head of state who is lying again and again.
Grimstad doesn´t think that this what has happened will make the King to abdicate:
- But the constitution is compromised and I hope that the king dedicates the rest of his career to build again the trust that is now thrown away.
”Hans största kris någonsin” | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
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  #198  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:06 PM
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Well reading about all those scandals not only in Sweden, but also in Spain or Belgium makes me think what are monarchies for?
Of course lying about your "dark side" of life or cover it up is the biggest fault a royal can ever make but also the way of life those royals spent is highly unrecommendable when you are a royal paid by other people's tax-money. What kind of example do you give then?
Sweden can not have a Head of State who is not transparent about the things he does. Sweden can not have a Head of State or a royal prince visiting sex-clubs.

In a republic you can at least easily send those people away
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  #199  
Old 12-05-2011, 05:01 PM
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Actually Queen Julioan followed the esample of her mother who also choose to be known as Princess Wilhelmina after her abdication. And now it's even in the Law about the membership of the Royal House which means if Queen Beatrix abdicates she will also become Princess Beatrix again.
Thanks for the info, Stefan. I was not aware of Wilhelmina "downgrading" to Princess when she abdicated, nor that it is now a law. Still under current practices and current Swedish law, wouldn't CG & Silvia would still be referred to as King and Queen? That is unless they also chose to voluntary change their titles?
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  #200  
Old 12-05-2011, 05:05 PM
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Well reading about all those scandals not only in Sweden, but also in Spain or Belgium makes me think what are monarchies for?
Of course lying about your "dark side" of life or cover it up is the biggest fault a royal can ever make but also the way of life those royals spent is highly unrecommendable when you are a royal paid by other people's tax-money. What kind of example do you give then?
Sweden can not have a Head of State who is not transparent about the things he does. Sweden can not have a Head of State or a royal prince visiting sex-clubs.

In a republic you can at least easily send those people away
I don't think its that easy in a republic. Look at Berlusconi. He didn't get sent away overnight.
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