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  #21  
Old 05-22-2012, 05:59 AM
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"She does not owe anything to the British Crown, honestly, and everything to Spanish people. If she had to offend anyone, I prefer it was the British Queen than the Spaniards, really."

So do I.
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:00 AM
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"While I find respectable Prince Andrew´s trip to Gibraltar as it´s a British territory"

It was Prince Edward, not Andrew. I find nothing respectable about Andrew.
Sorry, of course it was Edward, I mistaken the names...
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:03 AM
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What I find most interesting about this perhaps, is Queen Sofia was confirmed to attend the event for weeks prior to the government stepping in. Did the spainards, the public not the government make a fuss? Did it make front page news at all?

My stand point is, it's a sad day when apolitical monarchs are used as pawns in the political game. I feel sorry for Sofia. End of.
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:27 AM
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"Did the spainards, the public not the government make a fuss? Did it make front page news at all?"

No, no one made a fuss. Both King and Queen were going to England, then the famous trip to Botswana consquences kicked in and JC couldn't go. It was decided then that Queen Sofia would go on her own....only to be hit with the the British Jubilee political consequences when the local goverment in Gibraltar flexed its muscle against spanish fisherman working legally in EU waters.

This has always been politics and will continue to be politics.
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  #25  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
"She does not owe anything to the British Crown, honestly, and everything to Spanish people. If she had to offend anyone, I prefer it was the British Queen than the Spaniards, really."

So do I.
The Queen will have fully understood the situation and will not have been offended by Queen Sofia being unable to attend the event.

Having calmed down abit from last week, I can see that Queen Sofia will have taken the Spanish Givernment's request/advice with great dignity and grace.

It must be remembered that here in Britain, Queen Sofia is one of the better known royals from abroad and from the friends I've spoken to, she is popular. So we missed her last week!

I must also remind myself that if the situation were reversed, the British Government is, to my mind, likely to have made the same stand.

The issues our countries have with regard to Gibraltar are not likely to be resolved - ever - and the level of diplomatic relations will ebb and flow more than a Spring tide.
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  #26  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:32 AM
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Queen Sofia not attending Diamond Jubilee Lunch

Queen Sofia not attending Diamond Jubilee Lunch

I've opened up this thread and will move all posts regarding Queen Sofia's non attendance at the Diamond Jubilee Lunch here.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
The Queen will have fully understood the situation and will not have been offended by Queen Sofia being unable to attend the event.

Having calmed down abit from last week, I can see that Queen Sofia will have taken the Spanish Givernment's request/advice with great dignity and grace.

It must be remembered that here in Britain, Queen Sofia is one of the better known royals from abroad and from the friends I've spoken to, she is popular. So we missed her last week!

I must also remind myself that if the situation were reversed, the British Government is, to my mind, likely to have made the same stand.

The issues our countries have with regard to Gibraltar are not likely to be resolved - ever - and the level of diplomatic relations will ebb and flow more than a Spring tide.
First, I really hope the Gibraltar issue would one day finally be resolved between our countries. Second, I get Queen Sofia may have been missed in the "royal jubilee picture" but I'm glad she wasn't there.

Spain is dealing with difficult financial circunstances - not many Spaniards would have liked to see their Queen having fun with the royals in Europe while Spain is slashing social programs for the people that most need them.

Local issues in Gibraltar and how they affect Spain, UK, EU and the interpretation of the Treaty of Utrecht are at the diplomatic centre of what's has happened.
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  #28  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:36 AM
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This thread is turning far too political,if it continues I'm locking this thread.Please also note speculative posts will be deleted!
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
not many Spaniards would have liked to see their Queen having fun with the royals in Europe while Spain is slashing social programs for the people that most need them.
If it was some minor wedding or birthday I'd agree. The Diamond Jubilee of QEII is not a fun event but an event to represent Spain on the highest level, among other monarchs. It was Queen Sofia's job to be there, only that the government didnt let her go, for a dispute over the Gibraltar issue, which I understand, but not because it doesnt look good to send the Queen partying in times like these.

Spain is a constitutional monarchy after all, a fact that cant be completey hidden away, even though the Spanish royals did their best to promote their so very substancial image, as if they were some kind of royal politicians, never doing the fluffy stuff but only serious work (well, it got shattered in recent months).
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
If it was some minor wedding or birthday I'd agree. The Diamond Jubilee of QEII is not a fun event but an event to represent Spain on the highest level, among other monarchs. It was Queen Sofia's job to be there, only that the government didnt let her go, for a dispute over the Gibraltar issue, which I understand, but not because it doesnt look good to send the Queen partying in times like these.

Spain is a constitutional monarchy after all, a fact that cant be completey hidden away, even though the Spanish royals did their best to promote their so very substancial image, as if they were some kind of royal politicians, never doing the fluffy stuff but only serious work (well, it got shattered in recent months).
You obviously know little about Spain if you think the diamond jubilee of QEII is important to Spaniards. To put it simply, they don't care.

They would have cared if they'd have seen QS attending yet another "royal bash" for the privileged. Gibraltar has been a blessing in disguise for the SRF - had Sofia attended the exclusive party with some of the royals the international press consider responsible for human rights attrocities in their own countries, she'd have been crucified in Spain.

The fact that Spain is a constitutional monarchy means the power lies within the Spanish Constitution and its elected government. Unlike in the UK, the King or Queen of Spain DO HAVE to swear the Constitution.
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  #31  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra

You obviously know little about Spain if you think the diamond jubilee of QEII is important to Spaniards. To put it simply, they don't care.

The fact that Spain is a constitutional monarchy means the power lies within the Spanish Constitution and its elected government. Unlike in the UK, the King or Queen of Spain DO HAVE to swear the Constitution.
it's not about spainards caring it's about how Spain looks on the public stage, but I doubt you care about that either. We don't have a constitution to swear to, which has done pretty well for us for a few thousand years.
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  #32  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:20 AM
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"it's not about spainards caring it's about how Spain looks on the public stage, but I doubt you care about that either."

I'm a Spaniard and Queen Sofia is the Queen of Spain. Furthermore this thread is about Queen Sofia in the Spanish forum.

Of course I care. I find astonishing you think I should care about anything but that.
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  #33  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:20 AM
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You obviously know little about Spain if you think the diamond jubilee of QEII is important to Spaniards. To put it simply, they don't care.
I didnt say that the diamond jubilee is important to Spaniards - on the contrary, I agree that they dont care, like the people of many other countries who dont have QEII as a Head of State, yet all these monarchs attended because they share the same institution. This event is important to any monarchy - celebrating a fellow Queen for such an astonishing achievement.

My point is had the government given green light, Queen Sofia would have been there - the event was already listed on casareal - and I doubt the Spaniards would have resented that decision.

Its common knowledge that Sofia flies into London frequently to go shopping or see her fellow royal brother Constantin who lives there. Did somebody object 3 Spanish royals attending William's wedding - not even the heir's wedding - because of "partying in difficult times"? No, and it was their job to show up there, to represent the Spanish monarchy & State.

If it wasnt for the Gibraltar issue Queen Sofia would have gone, would have "partied" and nobody would have cared, bad times or not.
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  #34  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra
"it's not about spainards caring it's about how Spain looks on the public stage, but I doubt you care about that either."

I'm a Spaniard and Queen Sofia is the Queen of Spain. Furthermore this thread is about Queen Sofia in the Spanish forum.

Of course I care. I find astonishing you think I should care about anything but that.
Well that's what Duke of Marmalade was talking about, but you turned it on its head to something it didn't mean. Spain was almost disrespectful by not sending representation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I didnt say that the diamond jubilee is important to Spaniards - on the contrary, I agree that they dont care, like the people of many other countries who dont have QEII as a Head of State, yet all these monarchs attended because they share the same institution. This event is important to any monarchy - celebrating a fellow Queen for such an astonishing achievement.

My point is had the government given green light, Queen Sofia would have been there - the event was already listed on casareal - and I doubt the Spaniards would have resented that decision.

Its common knowledge that Sofia flies into London frequently to go shopping or see her fellow royal brother Constantin who lives there. Did somebody object 3 Spanish royals attending William's wedding - not even the heir's wedding - because of "partying in difficult times"? No, and it was their job to show up there, to represent the Spanish monarchy & State.

If it wasnt for the Gibraltar issue Queen Sofia would have gone, would have "partied" and nobody would have cared, bad times or not.
Well said!
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  #35  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:24 AM
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"Well that's what Duke of Marmalade was talking about, but you turned it on its head to something it didn't mean. Spain was almost disrespectful by not sending representation."

Just because the Mail and Telegraph said so, didn't make it so.
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  #36  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:26 AM
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While I doubt Queen Elizabeth took a personal offence at Queen Sofia's absence, I do agree with those who say it would have been nice to send a representative to the Jubilee celebrations.

If the Emperor and Empress of Japan chose to attend despite their advanced age and a recent (very serious) operation undergone by the Emperor, it shows that the event is important, at least as far as Monarchies are concerned.

  #37  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:36 AM
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"Its common knowledge that Sofia flies into London frequently to go shopping or see her fellow royal brother Constantin who lives there."

It's been "known" in Spain for a long time that she has a house in London and lives there except when her agenda takes her to Spain. What does her private life got to do with her duties as a Queen though?

"Did somebody object 3 Spanish royals attending William's wedding - not even the heir's wedding - because of "partying in difficult times"? No, and it was their job to show up there, to represent the Spanish monarchy & State."

Again politics. It's a dance of pull and push. JC and Sofia didn't attend Charles and Diana's wedding for the same reason - Gibraltar. Three or four years later they were having fun in Majorca with their kids. They are good friends aside from the responsibilities they have to their countries and governments.

Royals know and accept those responsibilities - certainly better than some of you do.
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  #38  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:38 AM
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I think Queen Sofia would have liked to go and Queen Elizabeth would have liked to have her. But the event went on brilliantly anyway.
I am sure the King and the Queen of Spain have sent their congratulations in a private way.
The thing is, Spain did not want the Queen to go because of Gibraltar and they have the right to do that. And Queen Sofia had to comply.
She is very correct and always represents her country very well and I am sure that although she missed the opportunity to meet her pairs and relatives, she is no teenager to be crying over that like a girl who missed a night out because her parents had forbidden her to go. Queen Elizabeth understood everything very well, I am certain.
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  #39  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
W

If the Emperor and Empress of Japan chose to attend despite their advanced age and a recent (very serious) operation undergone by the Emperor, it shows that the event is important, at least as far as Monarchies are concerned.
If the Emperor and Empress of Japan attended is a choice approved by their government. I certainly don't believe they would attend a ceremony in a country they have a territorial dispute with, if there is a possibility of a diplomatic confrontation while attending the party/ceremony.

In relation to Gibraltar, I'm reporting your post. The mods made it clear not to engage in political posts. If I can do so, so do you.
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  #40  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:55 AM
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I'm closing this thread as its spiralling out of control.
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