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  #421  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
He looks like hell. Picture from the Dutch visit, he is frail and looking quite elderly. Why I do not know. I am near his age. My husband is older. We can do much more. My husband has a new hip, well a while ago and a new 3 years ago. He doesn't look old or frail There is a problem. Monarchy has its limitations, people in useless positions, who cut ribbons and shake hands can no longer do that, they should be, retired somewhere quietly. JC has out stayed his time.
He looks like that because he is probably in constant pain. Pain is the most wearing, tiring thing there is. And there is also the stress of knowing another operation was necessary and therefore more pain. He's got the guts to try and get it fixed. Good for him. Surgery (and hips) and individual and therefore how another person responds is only a guide.

I think that physical frailty does not mean you give up. Using your example, how would you and your husband have felt if someone said-"you're old, need a new hip, give up!" ?

And you have been on the forums long enough to know that there is more to being a monarch than cutting ribbons and shaking hands.
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  #422  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:19 PM
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Not a great deal more. He doesn't run the nation. He can come and go. Filipe would give a fresh look and interest to the nation, if you want to keep a monarchy. Pain is a terrible thing, you are right. But after so many operations on the same site, it begins to tell a story. I have worked surgeries for many years, there is a real problem. Hips are one of the best recoveries there are.
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  #423  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:37 PM
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He could reign from a wheelchair if necessary. Everyday people with his stated health continue to work, hobbies, meet people, shop etc etc and generally it is agreed that is right. Why should he stop? Disability does not automatically stop people doing their job. In the UK, we had a minister of state who was blind - all things are possible.

I hope he keeps going.
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  #424  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Monarchy has its limitations, people in useless positions, who cut ribbons and shake hands can no longer do that, they should be, retired somewhere quietly. JC has out stayed his time.
Off topic, but seems you have a need to be constantly reminded that a Constitutional Monarchy is not just waves and ribbon cuttings.

From the official website of the Spanish Monarchy (http://www.casareal.es/EN/corona/Pag...el-jefe.aspx):

FUNCTIONS OF THE HEAD OF STATE

Pursuant to the Constitution, the King is a symbol of the unity of the State, and as such, it is incumbent upon him to participate in important State acts:

- Sanctioning and promulgating the laws (Article 62 a).
- Issuing the decrees approved in the Council of Ministers (Article 62 f).

- Appointing the President and the other Members of the Government (Articles 99.3 and 100).
- Appointing the President and the Members of the Constitutional Court (Articles 159 and 160).

- Appointing the President of the Supreme Court (Article 123.2).

- Appointing the President of the Executive Councils of the Autonomous Communities (Article 152.1).

It is also incumbent upon the King to:

- Confer civil and military positions, as well as award honours and distinctions (Article 62 f).

- Exercise supreme command of the Armed Forces (Article 62 h).

- Exercise the right of clemency (Article 62 i).

- Exercise the High Patronage of the Royal Academies (Article 62 j).
Sinopsis del Artículo 62. Congreso de los Diputados
As a symbol of the permanence of the State, the Crown of Spain is hereditary (Article 57).

The King arbitrates and moderates the regular functioning of the institutions, and as such, it is incumbent upon him to:

- Summon and dissolve the Cortes and to call for elections (Article 62 b).

- Call for a referendum (Article 62 c).

- Propose a candidate for President of the Government (Article 62 d).

- Be informed of the affairs of State and, for this purpose, preside over the meetings of the Council of Ministers (Article 62 g).


The King is the highest representative of the Spanish State in international relations, and as such, it is incumbent upon him to:

- Accredit ambassadors and other diplomatic representatives, express the State’s assent to international commitments through treaties, and declare war and make peace (Article 63).

Pursuant to the provisions of the corresponding laws, it is incumbent upon the King to appoint the following authorities:

- President of the Court of Auditors (Article 29 of Organic Law 2/1982, of 12 May, on the Court of Auditors).

- Public Prosecutor General (Article 29.1 of Act 50/1981, of 30 December, regulating the Organic Statute of the Public Prosecution Service).

- Governor of the Bank of Spain (Article 24.1 of Act 13/1994, of 1 June, on the Autonomy of the Bank of Spain).

The following take an oath or make a promise before the King:

- President and Members of the Government.

- Members of the Constitutional Court (Article 21 of Organic Law 2/1979, of 3 October, on the Constitutional Court).

- President and Members of the General Council of the Judiciary (Articles 123.4 and 115 of Organic Law 6/1985, of 1 July, on the Judiciary).

- President of the Court of Auditors (Article 21.6 of Act 7/1988, of 5 April, on the Functioning of the Court of Auditors).

- Public Prosecutor General (Article 29.3 of Act 50/1981, of 30 December, regulating the Organic Statute of the Public Prosecution Service.

- Governor of the Bank of Spain.
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  #425  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
The last 5 hip operations didn't work, thus it allows people to have doubt on this one and the next one in 2 months, it can't go on forever like one operation followed by another one for the future. He will miss the national day celebration, he won't be able to attend the Latin America Summit, Felipe is not allowed to go since he isn't the Head of State. It doesn't look good on the monarchy. Like I said previously, time has passed for a monarchy to stay in the Palace or bed, they need to go out to represent.
He could have both legs amputated and be in a wheelchair and still be able to function perfectly well as monarch.

Indeed in Canada 2 of the monarchs representatives in the provinces were appointed at least in part because they were wheelchair bound to demonstrate that a handicap did not mean one could not still lead an active life and contribute to society.
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  #426  
Old 09-26-2013, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
While I am unfamiliar with Queen Juliana's husband, can you tell me if Queen Juliana herself was involved in any way? Quite the opposite of JC.

As for JC's role in the Urdangarin affairs, I do believe you are overlooking his moral obligations to his people. If you do not believe he did not have a hand in covering things up, smoothing things over and getting Inaki to D.C. and then Cristina to Geneva as a golden parachute (a bit of an accessory after the fact, if you ask me), if you do not believe that he ultimately had a moral if not legal role, as monarch, of revealing the issues with Noos, of revealing the fact that members of the royal family stole millions from the public purse, a very needy public purse, if you do believe he is so unconnected that he had no influence on the justice system's treatment of Cristina (which also has criminal implications in many countries) , well then I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

You really do believe that JC was an innocent bystander in that entire affair, who can look himself in the mirror and say that he did nothing wrong? Again, I believe we have completely divergent opinions here.

Yes..my point of bias is sooooo clear here..
You believe the King knows everything about Noos scandal, and at the same time you believe Queen Juliana doesnt know anything about Lockheed scandal..IT IS JUST YOUR BELIEF..In both cases..

If one monarch is supposed to know everything that goes in the lives of their children and their spouses, and is automatically presumed to have shielded them from justice...The how come another monarch is so conveniently presumed to be in dark and innocent about her own and only husband's dealings, she is an innocent bystander and she doesnt have any moral obligations towards her people..This is the heights of double standards..Atleast double standards..if you arent ready to call it revers sex discrimination..

Anyways, since you have already stated that we are not going to agree on this, lets leave it here..as just another discussion of divergent opinions..
Moreover, for those whole didnt follow this discussion from start, may mistake my posts for some badmouthing other monarchs..

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
Hip replacement surgery alone might not be, but we are talking about 6 surgeries on the hip alone the last 3 years (likely more to come), many months of rehab and missing functions.
Please Please..You people have been mixing up every possible reason on earth to demand the King's abdication..
Just go through the last few pages..It goes on like this..
First you (those seeking abdication) say the King is so old he has to abdicate..
Then we (those opposing demands of abdication) say age is not an issue..
Then you say no health is very bad he cannot reign
Then we say one need not be extremely fit to reign..
Then you say people are tired of his corruption scandals
Then we point out The King has no corruption charges on him
Then you say his daughter is involved and he has shielded them so he is equally culpable
Then you go to say entire system in Spain runs on The Kin's whims and fancies, and stop short of calling Spain an autocratic state (what else do you call something where evrything and everyone goes out of their way to follow the King's orders)..
Then again you say the corruption scandal is one thing, the King's hunting trip is the main cause of public anger
Then you bring in the King's mistress..
Aget this what..You will say the King's grandson had gun in his hand, so he should abdicate..
And just you're saying one surgery is OK, bot he had six surgeries so he has to abdicate..Is there a cut-off? that a monarch has to abdicate the moment he goes into the OR for the sixth time?

Havent you all noticed by now that you dont have even one single solid ground to demand The King's abdication..
Just bragging about everything that goes wrong in his family/friend's circle/country...
And the worse thing is you people speak as if The King is the cause of all maladies of Spain, and his abdication is a magic potion to treat them all in one single shot..
You dont realise that in the current situation, there is only economic crisis, but the abdication may plunge the nation into a deeeeep political crisis with far more worse outcomes...
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  #427  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Not a great deal more. He doesn't run the nation. He can come and go. Filipe would give a fresh look and interest to the nation, if you want to keep a monarchy. Pain is a terrible thing, you are right. But after so many operations on the same site, it begins to tell a story. I have worked surgeries for many years, there is a real problem. Hips are one of the best recoveries there are.
Two things:

If you believe that JC doesn't run the nation, then I would urge you to read more about his influence in the Spanish government.

Secondly, a hip replacement being the easiest recovery? Hardly. The risk of infection and hip dislocation is always there. Especially the older you get.

The fact is, the chances of his abdicating are exceedingly small, right? The Spanish monarchy doesn't have a legacy of abdications, and we all know what happened the last time the monarch "left" unexpectedly.
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  #428  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
The last 5 hip operations didn't work, thus it allows people to have doubt on this one and the next one in 2 months, it can't go on forever like one operation followed by another one for the future. He will miss the national day celebration, he won't be able to attend the Latin America Summit, Felipe is not allowed to go since he isn't the Head of State. It doesn't look good on the monarchy. Like I said previously, time has passed for a monarchy to stay in the Palace or bed, they need to go out to represent.
King Harald of Norway had several bouts of bad health during which time Prince Haakon served as regent. For example, when Harald had cancer treatment, Prince Haakon was regent from November 2003 until April 2004. It's too bad that Spain doesn't allow the same thing. In my opinion, Juan Carlos has not taken enough time to recover from his surgeries. His sister has said that bad joints run in their family. Was that the reason that their mother was wheelchair bound?
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  #429  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
He could have both legs amputated and be in a wheelchair and still be able to function perfectly well as monarch.

Indeed in Canada 2 of the monarchs representatives in the provinces were appointed at least in part because they were wheelchair bound to demonstrate that a handicap did not mean one could not still lead an active life and contribute to society.
Don't think you can compare JC to some 'young' 'healthy' men in a wheelchair. Had JC sat on the wheelchair, all those surgeries would have been avoided (doubt it) ? With the lifestyle he led all these years and bad genes in the family, his whole body is falling apart, if not hip, it would be knees, disk, lung, who knows what is next.
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  #430  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lindy View Post
King Harald of Norway had several bouts of bad health during which time Prince Haakon served as regent. For example, when Harald had cancer treatment, Prince Haakon was regent from November 2003 until April 2004. It's too bad that Spain doesn't allow the same thing. In my opinion, Juan Carlos has not taken enough time to recover from his surgeries. His sister has said that bad joints run in their family. Was that the reason that their mother was wheelchair bound?
She felt, broken her hip. Since then she was wheelchair bound. I heard she had alzheimer too.
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  #431  
Old 09-27-2013, 05:29 AM
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Infanta Elena visited his father this mmorning

http://images.lainformacion.com/cms/...=lainformacion
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  #432  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:00 AM
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Why a a hat ? smiling , great car easy life all seems to go well !
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  #433  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:04 AM
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Medical Part 3 - September 27

http://www.casareal.es/ES/Documents/...e_medico_3.pdf
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  #434  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:21 AM
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King Juan Carlos will be 40 years on the throne in November 2015,a pretty significant date for him and Spain,I'd imagine that by hook or by crook (no pun intended), His Majesty will hang on in there to mark that anniversary. What happens after than,Lord knows!
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  #435  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:23 AM
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Latest from Hola

HM The Queen.
La Reina dice que el Rey está dando pasos, muy animado y sin dolores

HRH The Infanta Elena
http://www.hola.com/noticias-de-actu...6/casasreales/
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  #436  
Old 09-27-2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Yes..my point of bias is sooooo clear here..
You believe the King knows everything about Noos scandal, and at the same time you believe Queen Juliana doesnt know anything about Lockheed scandal..IT IS JUST YOUR BELIEF..In both cases..
Except that we DO KNOW that the King found out about Noos several years back, demanded that Inaki leave and when he did not found him a job in D.C.

And we have NO evidence that Juliana knew. I asked you for some evidence, none was provided and you are assuming she did know. I am not assuming that the king knew - we know he did.
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  #437  
Old 09-27-2013, 07:47 AM
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From Hello

Infanta Cristina flew in from Switzerland to visit Spain's King Juan Carlos in hospital - hellomagazine.com
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  #438  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
And we have NO evidence that Juliana knew. I asked you for some evidence, none was provided and you are assuming she did know. I am not assuming that the king knew - we know he did.
OK since you dont wanna leave this..
Please check Wiki on Lockheed scandal..
"Queen Juliana has threatened to abdicate if her husband was prosecuted"..
Do you need anything more?
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  #439  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
OK since you dont wanna leave this..
Please check Wiki on Lockheed scandal..
"Queen Juliana has threatened to abdicate if her husband was prosecuted"..
Do you need anything more?
She did yes,after PM Den Uyl informed her as to the findings of the research.Not before,not ever before!!She was utterly and visibly shocked when she found out...Be sure to be well informed before reactions...!..And,in that case Princess Beatrix would have refused to be the next Monarch.So much for love of pappie as Bernhard was called at home.
Yes,so?What's so special and why is it necessary for others to bring this up in a totally inappropiate thread concerning the health of the King.Not the old out in the open history of the 70's.Big deal...Bernhard stepped down from all his functions and that was that and we all lived happily ever after.Next!

And as for spain and it's rags & rumours!!It is Notorious for just that...No proof for anything except pages one with an extra grey cell doesn't read.
Untill anything is proven:It's just crap for crapule.Nada mas!
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  #440  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
Don't think you can compare JC to some 'young' 'healthy' men in a wheelchair. Had JC sat on the wheelchair, all those surgeries would have been avoided (doubt it) ? With the lifestyle he led all these years and bad genes in the family, his whole body is falling apart, if not hip, it would be knees, disk, lung, who knows what is next.
Neither were young nor were they both men. They were people "of a certain age" who were more or less permanently wheelchair bound. Being in a wheelchair did not mean they could not lead productive lives and carry out the functions of their vice regal offices. Being in a wheel chair did not in any way hamper their mental capacity.
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