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  #401  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:44 AM
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No Duke, in the previous surgery he arrived driving the car of the infantas, but went to park it and arrived a few minutes later.

I think the queen and her daughters defend him. It is unfortunate because his presence in pubic acts is very negative for the Crown, at least until his legal situation is resolved, should be working in the office. I imagine that publicly support him, protects Infanta Cristina ...

All media have highlighted his presence yesterday, and that was so unnecessary ...
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  #402  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:21 AM
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I guess if the King would say 'don't show up' he wouldnt ... so its not only the Queen & the Infantas.
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  #403  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I guess if the King would say 'don't show up' he wouldnt ... so its not only the Queen & the Infantas.
Quite right. What puzzles me is that the King seems to be an intelligent man (okay a few lapses in judgment here and there), I would think that he would take the time to organize his "house" and get rid of "troublesome" people, regardless of what the infantas want/need. And someone please explain to me why Christina hopped on a plane and few back to Madrid, wasn't she just in Spain. Can her mother or sister not keep her updated on her father's condition? Her coming back and forth does not look good in my opinion.
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  #404  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
Quite right. What puzzles me is that the King seems to be an intelligent man (okay a few lapses in judgment here and there), I would think that he would take the time to organize his "house" and get rid of "troublesome" people, regardless of what the infantas want/need. And someone please explain to me why Christina hopped on a plane and few back to Madrid, wasn't she just in Spain. Can her mother or sister not keep her updated on her father's condition? Her coming back and forth does not look good in my opinion.
I think its mainly for PR reasons. Whenever JC is in hospital, the whole family shows up, together, alone, in whatever combinations, smiling, to demostrate family unit. ok, the hip operation wasnt that easy but they did the same for minor treatments of JC in hospital where I woudnt visit my parents if I lived further away or even abroad because one can catch up via phone. But its all about image. the patron is in hospital and the family will gather around him.
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  #405  
Old 09-26-2013, 11:13 AM
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I have doubts that the king himself has something to say if he wants to avoid more problems.

Carlos García Revenga depends of the Queen team and has been very influential in the lives of the infantas, especially Elena, from their youth. It is common to see him in many private activities with Infanta Elena, and his daughters are godchildren of the infantas. They do not have a normal relationship of boss and employee, and that's much of the problem.

Since there was a controversy with her secretary, after controversial statements of the Queen in a biography, was clear that the Queen commands her team.

I do not think that the king wants a war with the women of the family. I think also he considered the work of the ladies "secondary" and has never cared much to have a control. With the Prince is a totally different story.

And very important, Revenga is a piece of the scandal Noos, if they protect him, protect Infanta Cristina. It is also a little discreet person, who likes to be in the photo and talk to the press...
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  #406  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:28 PM
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I agree with Lula. Because of the marital problem between JC and Sofia, JC pretty much lets Sofia does what she wants or he doesn't have much control over her. Infantas' secretary is part of Sofia's team, he reported to Sofia's secretary. Currently Sofia is a poor suffering wife with much sympathy from public, she pretty much gets away with everything, but monarchy and her husband suffer because of her insensitive or clueless attitude on the Noos case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
If people think that there is a basis on what Juan Carlos should abdicate or make Felipe regent at this stage I doubt that a constitutional monarchy is the right political system for Spain going forward.
There are new young leaders everywhere, what's the issue of a 75-year-old old man with health problem to retire if he can't perform his functions effectively ?
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  #407  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
If people think that there is a basis on what Juan Carlos should abdicate or make Felipe regent at this stage I doubt that a constitutional monarchy is the right political system for Spain going forward.
IMO, the only way that people will accept the notion of a constitutional monarchy is for the monarch to act without a shadow of impunity.

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; if the nation demands that a monarch step down (for some very valid reasons) then that system is not for them? There's got to be a way to remove a monarch who has lost the trust of the people, does there not?
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  #408  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
There are new young leaders everywhere, what's the issue of a 75-year-old old man with health problem to retire if he can't perform his functions effectively ?
Because its not the idea of a monarchy? Then why not elect the best person for the job (that is ceremonial only anyway) who is on top of his/her ability every four or five years.
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  #409  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
IMO, the only way that people will accept the notion of a constitutional monarchy is for the monarch to act without a shadow of impunity.

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; if the nation demands that a monarch step down (for some very valid reasons) then that system is not for them? There's got to be a way to remove a monarch who has lost the trust of the people, does there not?
I dont agree and it only shows that the system doesnt fit into the 21st century any longer. If you start removing monarchs for subjective feelings (in this case, I guess not everybody agrees), you can as well have a republic. Why give such a perogative to a specific family where naturally not all members or generations will be qualified for what they are supposed to do. But that's another discussion I guess.
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  #410  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:27 PM
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Queen Sofia today

http://images.lainformacion.com/cms/...=lainformacion
http://images.lainformacion.com/cms/...=lainformacion
http://images.lainformacion.com/cms/...=lainformacion
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  #411  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:33 PM
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From Hola

Don Juan Carlos da sus primeros pasos tras la operación de cadera a la que se ha so | Realeza | Noticias hola.com

http://www.hola.com/noticias-de-actu...5/casasreales/
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  #412  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
There are new young leaders everywhere, what's the issue of a 75-year-old old man with health problem to retire if he can't perform his functions effectively ?
Since when does needing hip replacement surgery mean he cannot effectively perform his duties as monarch?
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  #413  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:08 PM
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Since when does needing hip replacement surgery mean he cannot effectively perform his duties as monarch?
Hip replacement surgery alone might not be, but we are talking about 6 surgeries on the hip alone the last 3 years (likely more to come), many months of rehab and missing functions.
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  #414  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Because its not the idea of a monarchy? Then why not elect the best person for the job (that is ceremonial only anyway) who is on top of his/her ability every four or five years.
What's the idea of monarchy ? To be treated like a god, thanked to stay alive ? Monarchy is to provide service, part of the service is representation in various events/functions. Time has passed for the Monarchy to remain in the palace or bed, not in Spain.
On the other hand, many people like Felipe's personal qualities, people saw the difference between Felipe and the politicians in Argentina this time.
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  #415  
Old 09-26-2013, 04:52 PM
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Gracie, I have already clearly replied for all your questions in post#343.
OK once again.. The King has not committed any crime.
A member of his family did.
But why didnt the judiciary punish her?
You say The King "influenced"..
Well..is there a clause in Spanish constitution that The King's influence has to be considered before trying a member of The RF?
Did the King threaten of a countercoup or something if his daughter is tried?
Does the "evidence" you are claiming supports any of the above? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........
So, basically, the fault is NOT WITH THE KING, but the Spanish legal/juducial/administrative system..
WHY EXACTLY SHOULD THEY FALL FOR THE KING'S INFLUENCE?
They should entertain neither fear nor favour.. Isnt it the basic principle of judiciary?
And people simply want to King to call the police and say.. My SIL is a fraudster, come and arrest him..
No monarch..no human being will do so..
Do you think QEII never really knew of Andrew's shady deals and associations well before they actually surfaced? And upon that she immediately incensed him with GCVO the moment charges started coming in..
I am not blaming them..It is the basic parental protective instinct..
It is for the judiciary to work for justice..
If they fail in that..you cannot compensate for it by making the King abdicate..



FYI Queen Julian'a husband..husband I repeat..not an in-law..was involved in Lockheed Scandal..and even got away with all that perfectly..no one demanded her abdication for keeping quiet inspite of knowing..or trying to shield him later..

I stand by my observations that male monarchs are treated unfairly compared to female monarchs, when it comes to judging them by the wrong-doings of their family members..
ABSOLUTELY NO OFFENCE TO ANY MONARCHS I RESPECT THEM ALL EQUALLY..
And from these two examples, you have concluded that the difference in treatment comes down to the gender of the monarchs, simply because one was a man and one was a woman? Without considering the difference in cultures, economic circumstances, the role of the press, etc? Just because one was a man and one was a woman, in two completely different countries, two completely different times, it's reverse gender discrimination?

While I am unfamiliar with Queen Juliana's husband, can you tell me if Queen Juliana herself was involved in any way? Quite the opposite of JC.

As for JC's role in the Urdangarin affairs, I do believe you are overlooking his moral obligations to his people. If you do not believe he did not have a hand in covering things up, smoothing things over and getting Inaki to D.C. and then Cristina to Geneva as a golden parachute (a bit of an accessory after the fact, if you ask me), if you do not believe that he ultimately had a moral if not legal role, as monarch, of revealing the issues with Noos, of revealing the fact that members of the royal family stole millions from the public purse, a very needy public purse, if you do believe he is so unconnected that he had no influence on the justice system's treatment of Cristina (which also has criminal implications in many countries) , well then I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

You really do believe that JC was an innocent bystander in that entire affair, who can look himself in the mirror and say that he did nothing wrong? Again, I believe we have completely divergent opinions here.
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  #416  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:13 PM
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King Juan Carlos “in good spirits” after latest hip surgery


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  #417  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:50 PM
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Hip replacement surgery alone might not be, but we are talking about 6 surgeries on the hip alone the last 3 years (likely more to come), many months of rehab and missing functions.
None of what you have said means he will not recover or be unable to perform the basic functions of a monarch. Being ill, requiring surgery etc are not reasons to put people out to pasture or lock them away in a nursing home or that their mind is impaired and that they are unable to work.
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  #418  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:57 PM
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I dont agree and it only shows that the system doesnt fit into the 21st century any longer. If you start removing monarchs for subjective feelings (in this case, I guess not everybody agrees), you can as well have a republic. Why give such a perogative to a specific family where naturally not all members or generations will be qualified for what they are supposed to do. But that's another discussion I guess.
I agree with this sentiment.

He should stay put. It is the only way to make the monarchy have staying power. The country isn't baying for his blood, for heaven's sake.

The country is in a real (pardon the pun) mess economically (royal issues don't even register in comparison). The government are looking for all sorts of distractions (Gibraltar to name but 1) but NOT the abdication of the King. This says to me that they realise that at grass roots there is no support for it.
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  #419  
Old 09-26-2013, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
None of what you have said means he will not recover or be unable to perform the basic functions of a monarch. Being ill, requiring surgery etc are not reasons to put people out to pasture or lock them away in a nursing home or that their mind is impaired and that they are unable to work.
The last 5 hip operations didn't work, thus it allows people to have doubt on this one and the next one in 2 months, it can't go on forever like one operation followed by another one for the future. He will miss the national day celebration, he won't be able to attend the Latin America Summit, Felipe is not allowed to go since he isn't the Head of State. It doesn't look good on the monarchy. Like I said previously, time has passed for a monarchy to stay in the Palace or bed, they need to go out to represent.
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  #420  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:01 PM
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He looks like hell. Picture from the Dutch visit, he is frail and looking quite elderly. Why I do not know. I am near his age. My husband is older. We can do much more. My husband has a new hip, well a while ago and a new 3 years ago. He doesn't look old or frail There is a problem. Monarchy has its limitations, people in useless positions, who cut ribbons and shake hands can no longer do that, they should be, retired somewhere quietly. JC has out stayed his time.
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