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  #321  
Old 09-21-2013, 06:00 AM
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  #322  
Old 09-21-2013, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
as a response to those who think that its time for felipe to replace his father or become regent during his time of recovery.
i dont think we would have this discussion if beatrix or albert hadnt packed in (for different reasons).
i personally find it outrageous that somebody is labelled 'to old for a job' because of physical problems. the mind is crucial, not the body. its respectless to say, after such a long reign and achievements for spain, step aside old man, because you are wobbly on your feet, and let your son do the job. on what basis? the hunting weekend was a grave mistake that the king recognized and apologized for. its no reason to step down, if so the institution would not be worth its name.
I totally agree with you Duke.I really don't understand why some think Felipe will be a be better king.If King Juan Carlos with all his achievements for Spain has become a so easy target ,I wonder what it will happen to Felipe and Letizia
At the end of the day,Felipe is the King's son,he isn't a commoner.For most people he is only a highly previleged person.Letizia is already seen as someone who joined the camp of the most previleged.Her rhinoplasty that wasn't made public at the begining didn't help and only made the rumous of more surgeries plausible.Given the economic situation in Spain,that doesn't help.

IMO, JC hunting trip,his mistress,Letizia's rhinoplasty,Cristina new home in Geneva,Letizia not willing to spend more time in Mallorca and the consequent rumours(holidays abroad,surgery),Inaki's affair,Sofia the betrayed but impassive Queen .... aren't only harming the King but all the royal family including Felip.
An abdication won't strenghen Felipe but will harm the monarchy.
I am stunned when I hear some saying that the media attacks against Letizia are organised by Zarzuela.Imo those attacks are harsh because JC position is weak.The more The BOSS is attacked,the more the others will be targets because all the barriers and taboos are broken.
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  #323  
Old 09-21-2013, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
JC's grey men used the announcement to show who's boss. There will be a surgery but JC is firm in his place. He will not give one bit to Felipe.
In my opinion, and the quotation re abdication I posted earlier, JC will die as King with the only possibility of abdication because of mental incapability.

Once the monarch is mentally incapable an abdication isn't possible because the monarch can't agree to abdicate and what you would then have is a coup d'état and the next monarch would be a usurper. The monarch has to be mentally sound to both carry out their duties AND agree or decide to abdicate.
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  #324  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
as a response to those who think that its time for felipe to replace his father or become regent during his time of recovery.
i dont think we would have this discussion if beatrix or albert hadnt packed in (for different reasons).
i personally find it outrageous that somebody is labelled 'to old for a job' because of physical problems. the mind is crucial, not the body. its respectless to say, after such a long reign and achievements for spain, step aside old man, because you are wobbly on your feet, and let your son do the job. on what basis? the hunting weekend was a grave mistake that the king recognized and apologized for. its no reason to step down, if so the institution would not be worth its name.
So, according to this, we should abolish retirement age

Personally, I think no public position should be lifetime. IMO, of course
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  #325  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:30 AM
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..He'll get over it,...as will this forum....Eventually...and as for Spanish rags.....which gesture would fit best...grin..
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  #326  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:40 AM
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I think Spanish people is still smart enough to differentiate between gossip and serious problems and crimes. And often, to know when they want to sell gossip to hide and cover up what is really serious.

Mix the stupid gossip about Letizia´s clothes or surgery ... with serious Noos corruption scandal, or the scandal of a mistress of King dedicated to making shady deals with Spanish companies ... is absurd.

Yes, this summer those who do not want anything to change have created a campaign against Letizia with the excuse of Mallorca ... an easy and lucrative way to distract people.

While the King's health deteriorates, Vanity Fair writes negative about the king and the reappearance of Corinna, Infanta Cristina moved to a luxurious exile in Switzerland while still being investigated by the judge for tax reasons, it is discovered that the King has made a millionaire loan to his daughter to buy the house of scandal, the secretary of the infantas still charged and working at the palace...
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  #327  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:45 AM
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With the media reports of how unpopular Letizia is I think an abdication is the last thing the Borbón Monarchy needs,I'd like to see Felipe/Letizia and their daughters enjoy another few years of near normality.
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  #328  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:04 AM
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Honestly, Letizia is secondary, as is Sofia, who by the way, when she became queen was not very popular...

This is an institutional problem, political, of State... the problem of a sick country that needs a strong Head of State, with ability to assimilate many changes needed in the institution and the country.
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  #329  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
So, according to this, we should abolish retirement age
Again: if people wish to retire they should do so, but not because others tell them to, even in jobs were a retirement age is an option, people sometimes get another job after their retirement or are asked back as a consultant etc.

Who are we to tell others they are too old for a job they love to do or see it as their mission to do so...?
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  #330  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:31 AM
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The king's health maybe frail but his mind is still sound and astute,though it maybe disappointing for some the King has never indicated that he will abdicate.
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  #331  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
With the media reports of how unpopular Letizia is I think an abdication is the last thing the Borbón Monarchy needs,I'd like to see Felipe/Letizia and their daughters enjoy another few years of near normality.
But they are media reports, media isn't always to be trusted. Letizia's real popularity can be seen at the events she attends and with the people she meets.
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  #332  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:13 AM
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But they are media reports, media isn't always to be trusted. Letizia's real popularity can be seen at the events she attends and with the people she meets.
Hear Hear Hear..and especially spanish rags are notorious for ranting at anyone and anything...they serve well for cat-litter,nada mas....Not to be taken seriously ever.De verdad!
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  #333  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
So, according to this, we should abolish retirement age

Personally, I think no public position should be lifetime. IMO, of course
Well in some jurisdictions we have already abolished mandatory retirement ages.....if a person is still capable and still willing to carry on why should they be forced to give up?
Churchill would never have been able to lead the UK during WWII if he had been forced to give up at 65 which would have been a great loss for us and I am sure there are similar examples throughout history in most nations. One does not immediately become a doddering old fool upon turning 65 to be locked away in a nursing home waiting to die.
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  #334  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:22 AM
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This is an institutional problem, political, of State... the problem of a sick country that needs a strong Head of State, with ability to assimilate many changes needed in the institution and the country.
The institution and the political system IS Juan Carlos. He created it coming out of dictatorship and to be fair, there weren't many options. Those who supported him have benefitted and so has Spain for many decades, at the price of nepotism, corruption, old boys network and an almost unchangable constitution. Felipe is not even near the opportunities that Juan Carlos had and probably still has in terms of political power or influcence and there is no indication that the political parties are interested in necessary changes.

And in terms of the scandals, Corinna doing business, Noos etc and Juan Carlos' early years - I am pretty sure that JC's immunity would become a hot topic. Very much possible that he simply cannot afford to abdicate. To possibly see charges pressed against Juan Carlos is not a scenario that Spain or a King Felipe would want to see.
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  #335  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:48 AM
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That is precisely the problem with Spain at this time ... that system wracks and no longer works... and those who are in power are only concerned with keeping their privileges. All are clinging to power, and fighting each other to survive. The Monarchy is wrong, but politicians are worse... because there are in court alleged corruption cases that draw half the politicians in this country. Politicians are not really in a position of "moral authority" to make the king change some things.

But at some point it has to end, and they will have to make way for a new generation that has to do things differently. It is now inevitable and they know it. Probably will not be this month or next ... but the process has already begun.

Duke, I always thought that the biggest problem of an abdication, would be the after of Juan Carlos ... a constant head pain. The other option less "traumatic" is that at some point they opt for a regency.
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  #336  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
That is precisely the problem with Spain at this time ... that system wracks and no longer works... and those who are in power are only concerned with keeping their privileges. All are clinging to power, and fighting each other to survive. The Monarchy is wrong, but politicians are worse... because there are in court alleged corruption cases that draw half the politicians in this country. Politicians are not really in a position of "moral authority" to make the king change some things.

But at some point it has to end, and they will have to make way for a new generation that has to do things differently. It is now inevitable and they know it. Probably will not be this month or next ... but the process has already begun.

Duke, I always thought that the biggest problem of an abdication, would be the after of Juan Carlos ... a constant head pain. The other option less "traumatic" is that at some point they opt for a regency.
Regarding your politicians, do you not have elections? Can you not vote people out of office? Cannot younger people run for office? If the younger generation want changes is it not time for them to step up and take action by seeking public office? It is easy to sit back and be critical and say everyone else is corrupt but unless you yourself are willing to step up and try to change things you become part of the problem and not part of the solution.
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  #337  
Old 09-21-2013, 11:11 AM
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Neither I nor Spanish citizens say they are corrupt... justice says.

Indeed there is growing social movements, more protests, new political groups. The Spanish system the past 35 years has had a strong two-party system, it seems that the polls are beginning to show that changes.

The crisis and the social pressures are forcing politicians to pass new laws to prevent corruption and increase transparency. But changes will take time, and there are people more or less likely to change.
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  #338  
Old 09-21-2013, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
The king's health maybe frail but his mind is still sound and astute,though it maybe disappointing for some the King has never indicated that he will abdicate.
Do we know what the King's mind is like? It has been a long time since he appeared alert and energetic. The presence he depicts on photos is not of someone who merely is having some physical problems. There does not seem to be a mental sparkle there.
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  #339  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:11 PM
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totally agree, if you want comparisons:
Franklin D. Roosevelt, often regarded as one of the best US presidents, had some major physical problems, but that didn't stop him from ruling the country..
And the scientific world would have greatly suffered if people had convinced Stephen Hawking he was no longer useful when his physical problems began...

I'm not against abdication as such, but only if the person himself wishes it...
The health issues of Roosevelt and the King are not even remotely comparable.
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  #340  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:57 PM
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Regarding an abdication - what is the Problem to ask someone to leave into well deserved retirement after so many years of Service for his Country? Especially if you are ill?
Bye Bine
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