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  #121  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:54 AM
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I wonder if the King recieved a visit from either of his sisters during his stay in hospital?
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  #122  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Felipe does the "grin & bear it" version
http://www.vanitatis.com/fotos/album...felipe_4_g.jpg
That is one terse smile....
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  #123  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
WWF - Wildlife Trade - Elephant Ivory Trade FAQs

This article has information on WWF's position on selective culling of elephant herds.

Protecting wild life is not the same as no hunting. Culling of wild animals is a necessary part of protection and conservation.

King Juan Carlos indescretion is more an issue of lack of empathy for his own family and his country. Wealthy people will spend their money in ways that may seem outrageous to some other people and whether he travels with his mistress is not something new to the spanish people and probably not to Queen Sofia and their family either.

Perhaps the spanish people finally had enough of a lifestyle that is perhaps not the best suitable for an official person of today.
Thank you for the article. It seems that the controversy here is two-fold: one for the animal rights groups who are outraged by the images of the king shooting an elephant just for sport and not for culling, and the other the needless and frivolous expense during financial crisis. His lifestyle is definitely not in sync with Spain and he needs to reconsider his attitude, but we can only wait and see what the repercussions of this situation will be.
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  #124  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:14 AM
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Thank you for the article. It seems that the controversy here is two-fold: one for the animal rights groups who are outraged by the images of the king shooting an elephant just for sport and not for culling, and the other the needless and frivolous expense during financial crisis. His lifestyle is definitely not in sync with Spain and he needs to reconsider his attitude, but we can only wait and see what the repercussions of this situation will be.
Culling and shooting for sport is often one and the same. Botswana has been very successful in managing the elephants and the culling is most likely done by issuing permits for the number of elephants needed to keep the herds at ultimate size. Permits usually defines clearly what you may shoot, young or old, female or male, timing during the breeding season and so on.

The photos of the dead animal and proud hunters are unfortunately quite tasteless. However necessary the culling is due to todays reduced native habitat and lack of natural predators for many wild animals it also has become a source of revenue for countries. People are willing to pay substantial permit fees and accompanying guide and often luxury accomodations in order to engage in this type of hunting.
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  #125  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:18 AM
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JC had to apologize for PR reasons. Its a shallow apology though. I dont think for one second that he is sorry for what he did (or actually truly understands what was wrong about it), only angry about his unfortunate fall that eventually disclosed his whereabouts.

Having said that, this is the end of it. "It wont happen again". Enough said and back to normality is the message. He will never step aside. JC commands so much respect because of the old boys' network, all those shady or not shady connections that are or came into place when he took over in 1975. He is still very powerful for his country. Felipe cannot follow the path of his father (because it was a one-off situation) what makes him vulnerable and less influencial in certain aspects of being King.
It appeared to be a very generic apology. What exactly did he apologize for? I have only read translations of the announcement and it certainly seem to lack depth.
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  #126  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:18 AM
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It appeared to be a very generic apology. What exactly did he apologize for? I have only read translations of the announcement and it certainly seem to lack depth.
"I'm sorry. I made a mistake. It won't happen again."

Generic, indeed. I suspect it is intentionally vague so that whatever offends you is covered. (e.g., elephant shooting, expensive vacations, foreign holidays, trips not disclosed to the government, secret rendezvous with mistress, having a mistress, etc.)
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  #127  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:38 AM
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No decision yet regarding his post in the WWF?
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  #128  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:55 AM
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No decision yet regarding his post in the WWF?
I see no need to resign. WWF is very much involved in elephant management in Botswana and any permits issued are presumably in accordance with proper protocol for maintaining healthy herds.

The King's problem should not be whether the shoot was legal but his lifestyle and timing of such a trip. Big game hunting should not be on anyone's radar that is dependent on public opinion.
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  #129  
Old 04-18-2012, 01:34 PM
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Spanish King Juan Carlos apologizes over Botswana elephant hunting safari | Mail Online
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  #130  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindy View Post
"I'm sorry. I made a mistake. It won't happen again."

Generic, indeed. I suspect it is intentionally vague so that whatever offends you is covered. (e.g., elephant shooting, expensive vacations, foreign holidays, trips not disclosed to the government, secret rendezvous with mistress, having a mistress, etc.)
very true.

i find the apology at least something (going out as if nothing happened would have been even worse), although i am not convinced. i translate what the king means to my eyes: "next time it happens, you will not know about it".
he will surely not stop hunting because of this.
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  #131  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:13 PM
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Protesters as JC leaves the hospital

http://i39.tinypic.com/xm8qhg.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/dypx0o.jpg
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  #132  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
very true.

i find the apology at least something (going out as if nothing happened would have been even worse), although i am not convinced. i translate what the king means to my eyes: "next time it happens, you will not know about it".
he will surely not stop hunting because of this.
Why should he stop hunting? It is not illegal in Spain.
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  #133  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:16 PM
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He should stop hunting because he appears to have the blood lust, among other lust(s). He, to me, appears too craven to be a 21st century monarch. To me, he's just a "geezer" now.
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  #134  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy View Post
"I'm sorry. I made a mistake. It won't happen again."

Generic, indeed. I suspect it is intentionally vague so that whatever offends you is covered. (e.g., elephant shooting, expensive vacations, foreign holidays, trips not disclosed to the government, secret rendezvous with mistress, having a mistress, etc.)
There's also the fact that, if someone is truly sorry about their behaviour, then direct and to the point is the way to go. So many public "apologies" these days involve public figures expressing their so-called contrition with drama and grandstanding, or even better, some lengthy variation on the "I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt" theme.
I found The King's apology refreshing. He said he was sorry, he said a mess like this won't happen again, then he had the good sense to stop talking!
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  #135  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:39 PM
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What was he apologising for, exactly? Getting caught this time?

So one only has to apologise it you've done something illegal? What he did was hugely insensitive, offensive to, it would appear, most Spaniards and incredibly stupid. By accepting huge gifts of holidays from super-wealthy business people he leaves himself open to charges of impropriety or worse.

Can you imaging the uproar in the UK if it came out that Prince Charles had accepted a $60k holiday from some rich friend to kill endangered animals? He'd be accused of all sorts. There were negative press articles here when William and Kate sold tickets to a reception after War Horse to benefit William and Harry's Foundation.

But I suppose it's ok because the taxpayer didn't pay for it.
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  #136  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:46 PM
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Why apologize at all? Bad PR perhaps but he did nothing illegal. Politically incorrect for some but not illegal. The Spanish PM knew where he was, and he didnt feel the need to question the trip. It didnt cost the Spanish taxpayers as it was funded by the Saudis. He killed an elephant but that to is legal and the culling of the herd in Botswana is even sanctioned by the WWF. He traveled with a woman rumoured to be his mistress, well that is a private matter but it is not illegal.
Anyway he apologized, and now some people are just enjoying piling on a man while he is down.
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  #137  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:08 PM
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I like it.

A monarch does usually not apologize to his/her people. JC aknowledges that he heard the voice of his people, that he is not above making mistakes and not above regreting them.

What more can he do, no matter how wordy and detailed his apology could be, it comes down to what he actually had published now.
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  #138  
Old 04-18-2012, 06:09 PM
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He didn't kill an endangered animal. Botswana has an over supply of African elephants and the land cannot support them, and the cull is legal.

As far as JC and the Saudis are concerned, to date his association with them has been a positive thing for Spain, see Spanish contract to build highway.

I get that people are sensitive, perhaps overly so, but when you take emotions out of the equation he did nothing wrong or illegal.

Now from a PR point of view it was perhaps not the best decision but that is really all this is about, emotions and PR. He has been a good constitutional monarch and he remains the same person who has reigned since 1975.

Right now its just a case of people getting their jollies piling on a man while he is down. This to shall pass.
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  #139  
Old 04-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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He didn't kill an endangered animal. Botswana has an over supply of African elephants and the land cannot support them, and the cull is legal.

I get that people are sensitive, perhaps overly so, but when you take emotions out of the equation he did nothing wrong or illegal.
.
Actually African Elephants are an endangered species, they may be common in Botswana thanks to good conservation methods but as a species through out their range they are endangered. IT also may not be illegal but I question the morality of hunting and killing and extremely intelligent species, just for the fun of it. I am not into bashin JC but his behaviour is questionable of late.
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  #140  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:11 PM
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This whole situation just leaves a bad taste for me. I'm not a proponent of big-game hunting, and it's sad that it's a killing field for these gentle giants in approved Botswana since that's the legal hot spot for hunting them, it seems. Elephants still fall prey to poachers in other countries; illegal hunting takes place quite often so elephants among other animals are still endangered. JC's walking a slippery slope in this area, and I have to agree with Fearghas that his behavior, and judgment, is definitely questionable.
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