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  #121  
Old 06-02-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
we'll see what happens
my bet is that JC will keep his immunity
I was shocked like most to see this news this morning. Although I can't say that I'm disappointed at this announcement. Spain has needed a new image for a while now. And I completely agree DOM that JC will certainly keep his immunity, there is no way that he would abdicate the throne and not "strike a deal" of sorts. He is a very smart (street smarts) man and I'm sure that he dotted all of his "i's" and crossed all his "t's" before signing anything. Also, I hope that Letizia can find the "place" she has been searching for since her marriage. I think that she could do much to help the monarchy in Spain if given the chance.
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  #122  
Old 06-02-2014, 09:58 AM
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What a news!

My question is, becasue I don't get it, has he already abdicated or he just announces a plan to do so?
If he has abdicated is Felipe now the King? Or is there no King as for today? or any other option?
I was wondering that - if Juan Carlos has abdicated as per the letter he signed, who is currently the king?!
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  #123  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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Why though? Can someone explain this to me? It's not a tradition in the SRF to abdicate like in the dutch RF, is it?
Well, as far as his televised speech goes, he is abdicating for more or less the same reasons as Queen Beatrix did - time for a change, new perspective etc.
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  #124  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:02 AM
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Why though? Can someone explain this to me? It's not a tradition in the SRF to abdicate like in the dutch RF, is it?
It's difficult to explain why unless you understand Spain. Many Spaniards don't think the monarchy is a fair political choice of head of state. We did after all got rid of Alfonso XIII (JC grandfather) and JC himself was called the Breve "The Brief One".

No many people thought the monarchy could have lasted this long when I voted for the first time in 1978. But it did...and gave our democracy stability and groundness. Juan Carlos reigned in extraordinary circumstances. He was able to navigate a political minefield towards consensus, dialogue and discussion. This is his legacy....and his abdication wraps it up. He's doing what he needs to do for Spain.

There is simply no point of reference of his abdication with those of Holland and Belgium.
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  #125  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:03 AM
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I watched the speech on BBC America this morning. I felt sadness for him but he made it clear several times that the new generation deserves a new leadership.
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  #126  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
It's difficult to explain why unless you understand Spain. Many Spaniards don't think the monarchy is a fair political choice of head of state. We did after all got rid of Alfonso XIII (JC grandfather) and JC himself was called the Breve "The Brief One".

No many people thought the monarchy could have lasted this long when I voted for the first time in 1978. But it did...and gave our democracy stability and groundness. Juan Carlos reigned in extraordinary circumstances. He was able to navigate a political minefield towards consensus, dialogue and discussion. This is his legacy....and his abdication wraps it up. He's doing what he needs to do for Spain.

There is simply no point of reference of his abdication with those of Holland and Belgium.

I got that Spanish citizens don't see themselves as monarchists but as juancarlistas. so I believe there's no much consensus around Felipe. I hope he will be given the chance to show he's prepared and a good sovereign.
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  #127  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
No many people thought the monarchy could have lasted this long when I voted for the first time in 1978. But it did...and gave our democracy stability and groundness. Juan Carlos reigned in extraordinary circumstances. He was able to navigate a political minefield towards consensus, dialogue and discussion. This is his legacy....and his abdication wraps it up. He's doing what he needs to do for Spain.

There is simply no point of reference of his abdication with those of Holland and Belgium.
Well, perhaps the reference is that we all (he too I guess) saw that last year's abdications (2 monarchs and 1 pope) were experienced as something positive and brought the monarchies/church more popularity and dynamic.
Whereas in the past (for the generation of Elizabeth II and JC) abdications were seen as something negative.

I actually think that in the future "abdicating at a certain age" will be more common than "reigning until death".
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  #128  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:16 AM
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Well let's just say Spanish republics have not gone that well. What have they had three failed republics.
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  #129  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
I got that Spanish citizens don't see themselves as monarchists but as juancarlistas. so I believe there's no much consensus around Felipe. I hope he will be given the chance to show he's prepared and a good sovereign.
Actually many of us have moved on from "juacarlismo' to believing monarchy is still good for Spain.

Felipe and Letizia would be great monarchs. They are smart, hard working, approachable and low key.
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  #130  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:20 AM
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Actually many of us have moved on from "juacarlismo' to believing monarchy is still good for Spain.

Felipe and Letizia would be great monarchs. They are smart, hard working, approachable and low key.
someone told me that as soon as the news spread, protests started throughout Spain asking for a referendum to choose between monarchy and republic. is it true?
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  #131  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:22 AM
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Well, perhaps the reference is that we all (he too I guess) saw that last year's abdications (2 monarchs and 1 pope) were experienced as something positive and brought the monarchies/church more popularity and dynamic.
Whereas in the past (for the generation of Elizabeth II and JC) abdications were seen as something negative.

I actually think that in the future "abdicating at a certain age" will be more common than "reigning until death".
I agree, abdications aren't looked on as a negative acts anymore.
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  #132  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:24 AM
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apparently the web site of the Spanish monarchy is down. I can't get to it either from the links in this site or directly.
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  #133  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
someone told me that as soon as the news spread, protests started throughout Spain asking for a referendum to choose between monarchy and republic. is it true?
It's not true. I'm sure there are protests somewhere but right now the overwhelming feeling is shock and relief.
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  #134  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:28 AM
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King addresses Spaniards via television message to announce his abdication

King addresses Spaniards via television message to announce his abdication | In English | EL PAÍS

Abdication news catches Spain by surprise

Abdication news catches Spain by surprise | In English | EL PAÍS

Politicians react to royal bombshell

Politicians react to royal bombshell | In English | EL PAÍS

Abdication comes at low point for monarchy in opinion polls

Abdication comes at low point for monarchy in opinion polls | In English | EL PAÍS
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  #135  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
someone told me that as soon as the news spread, protests started throughout Spain asking for a referendum to choose between monarchy and republic. is it true?
I don't think so. I think there's a "protest" planned for today at 20:00 in Madrid, but I don't think there's a general feeling that a referendum should be made. It's usually the republicans and/or lefty parties interested in taking down the monarchy but I don't think they're a majority. They are probably the most noisy ones though.

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Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
unless there will be a change in the succession law to a absolute primogeniture preference
There were talks about a change in the Constitution when Leonor was born, but they decided to wait since there was plenty of time to do it. But they may do it soon now, I don't know.
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  #136  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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  #137  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalNight View Post
What a news!

My question is, becasue I don't get it, has he already abdicated or he just announces a plan to do so?
If he has abdicated is Felipe now the King? Or is there no King as for today? or any other option?
The Spanish constitution says in Art. 57(5) that:

" Abdications and renunciations and any doubt in fact or in law which may occur in the order of succession to the Crown, shall be resolved by an organic law."

Apparently, the Spanish parliament never bothered to pass the required organic law, which means that, currently, there is no legal instrument to validate a monarch's intention to abdicate. I suppose the council of ministers will introduce the required legislation in the coming days though. Until the legal question is sorted out, Juan Carlos remains king.
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  #138  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:42 AM
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In Spain there has always been republican, left or independence movements that organize such demonstrations. With the economic crisis these movements are stronger, and work very fast through the Internet and social networks. For Spaniards are not new their claims or those protests.

Tomorrow the King and Prince have a military act together in El Escorial.

Duke, this explains why Queen Letizia will go to the event of FAO in November.
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  #139  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Well, as far as his televised speech goes, he is abdicating for more or less the same reasons as Queen Beatrix did - time for a change, new perspective etc.
That may be what he's saying, but the circumstances surrounding his abdication and Beatrix's are completely different IMHO. Keep in mind that Queen Sophia herself said on record at the time of the Dutch abdication that the King of Spain would "never abdicate". I can't help thinking that JC's decision to step down was not completely voluntary.
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  #140  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:45 AM
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I have always had a great deal of respect for HM Juan Carlos. He lead Spain from dictatorship to democracy. He was both a symbol of tradition and continuity. He managed to stop a military coup in 1981. He may not be perfect, no man is, and the hunting trip was privately financed, not publicly, but he is a good man who only had his people's best interests at heart. The problems Spain suffers from today are entirely caused by both Spanish politicians and the EU, not the King.

God Bless both the King and Crown Prince.
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