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  #401  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Probably a disappointed aunt who thought that having the (future) Queen of Spain as family was a guarantee for wealth and privileges and found very little of that.

For an example, I can imagine that Máxima has helped her siblings and her parents. Not only her formidable finances but also her network will undoubtedly open doors for them. Máxima did the same for her best friends. She introduced them to the high society and some of them are even married into Dutch aristocracy. In Letizia's case her family and friends seem to have no any gain or profit like in Máxima's case. Just my personal guess.
Can you tell us the names of Maxima's friends who married into the Dutch aristocracy?
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  #402  
Old 06-07-2014, 06:33 PM
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I am aware of all that, but I am just speaking of the succession. Could he have said, I shall abdicate on...and proclaim my son Filipe my successor, long live King Filipe?

I don't believe that JC could just go "I'm abdicating and my son is king now."

The succession is set so that when JC is no longer king the next person in the line of succession - Felipe - becomes monarch. However, the monarch cannot simply abdicate without parliamentary approval - legislature needs to be passed in order to allow JC to abdicate.

I think had the abdication been announced with information about the changeover of power clear, the current protests would have still occurred. The uncertainty surely helped, but the protests are more because under JC in recent years the monarchy has plummeted in popularity. Felipe may be more popular than his father (I believe he even has more support than the monarchy itself), but the fact remains that the monarchy isn't popular right now and that's why the protests are happening.
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  #403  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:35 PM
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There was an article in the Daily Mail which said that Juan Carlos abdicated because he didn't want Felipe 'to wither like Prince Charles'. Is this true? For some reason, it sounds made up to me. I would post the article but I'm on a laptop since I'm enjoying the sunny weather, and my laptop is a bit rubbish when it comes to quoting articles.
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  #404  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:37 PM
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That sounds like the DM taking a chance to attack Charles to me.
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  #405  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:39 PM
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Here we are :

King Juan Carlos of Spain reveals why he decided to abdicate | Mail Online
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  #406  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:44 PM
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That sounds like the DM taking a chance to attack Charles to me.
Yes that's what I thought too. I doubt Juan Carlos would actually say that in public and that the person he said it to would report it to the Daily Mail, because for all they know Charles could have read it. Also, that reason doesn't sound like a 'proper' reason as to why he abdicated if you get what I mean, since the age of an heir to the throne of another country that isn't Hispanic shouldn't bother him. I'm sure that more serious issues like the corruption scandal were the main reasons as to why Juan Carlos abdicated.
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  #407  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:45 PM
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El Mundo, a Spanish newspaper has published it but refers to a supposed chat completely private, so no one can really know if it's true. With so many covers on the monarchy, that headline hits.
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  #408  
Old 06-08-2014, 03:07 PM
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I have a real hard time believing this story on many fronts. It just doesn't seem to be the King's style or his personal mode. Sounds nice but I still believe health problems and scandals played the big part in him stepping down. Spain would be smart if they waited 2 or 3 years [after viewing the performance of Felipe as their King] and then have a proper legal referendum on the saving of the monarchy. The transition would then be so much smoother for the Spanish people. A general election of candidates would give the Spanish people the right to vote and not just have someone step into the leader of a country. The present advisers would then be let-go entirely. A clean sweep. I really don't see that happening as I truly believe Felipe will do a good and proper job. I also see Queen Sofia coming into her own as a trusted helper to Felipe and his family. I can actually see her becoming extremely important to the Spanish way of life. JMHO
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  #409  
Old 06-08-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by royalfan_10 View Post
Can you tell us the names of Maxima's friends who married into the Dutch aristocracy?
Heu... let me think, Samantha Deane Kenny Green, her childhood and university friend as well witness on her wedding and godmother to Princess Amalia married Willem-Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers. There is another friend who married into the nobility, there was a lavish wedding at a renowned studfarm estate where top horses are bred, I have to look for the name.

Picture: Samantha Deane Kenny Green as godmother, source ANP: http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/vickymax/a2.jpg
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  #410  
Old 06-08-2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
I have a real hard time believing this story on many fronts. It just doesn't seem to be the King's style or his personal mode. Sounds nice but I still believe health problems and scandals played the big part in him stepping down. Spain would be smart if they waited 2 or 3 years [after viewing the performance of Felipe as their King] and then have a proper legal referendum on the saving of the monarchy. The transition would then be so much smoother for the Spanish people. A general election of candidates would give the Spanish people the right to vote and not just have someone step into the leader of a country. The present advisers would then be let-go entirely. A clean sweep. I really don't see that happening as I truly believe Felipe will do a good and proper job. I also see Queen Sofia coming into her own as a trusted helper to Felipe and his family. I can actually see her becoming extremely important to the Spanish way of life. JMHO
You don't vote on your head of state in a monarchy, nor do monarchies come up for "voter approval" periodically. It defeats the purpose of the entire concept of a monarchy, being above politics, the whims of the electorate and providing continuity. Good, bad or in-between each country gets a new monarch eventually. "Voting" is not the solution to everything. Do you let your children vote about being allowed to play in the road?
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  #411  
Old 06-08-2014, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Horthy View Post
You don't vote on your head of state in a monarchy, nor do monarchies come up for "voter approval" periodically. It defeats the purpose of the entire concept of a monarchy, being above politics, the whims of the electorate and providing continuity. Good, bad or in-between each country gets a new monarch eventually. "Voting" is not the solution to everything. Do you let your children vote about being allowed to play in the road?
No, you missed my point or I express it incorrectly. I meant that if the monarchy was voted out, then a proper running of many politicians would be placed for a vote. We all know Kings and Queens are not voted in, but politicians certainly are if the monarchy no longer exists.
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  #412  
Old 06-08-2014, 07:52 PM
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I found out about what King Juan Carlos allegedly said here first:

King Juan Carlos: 'I don't want my son to grow old waiting like Prince Charles' - Telegraph
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  #413  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by genegirl99 View Post
I found out about what King Juan Carlos allegedly said here first:

King Juan Carlos: 'I don't want my son to grow old waiting like Prince Charles' - Telegraph
If he actually said this, it is truly pathetic. We all know the reason he abdicated:- outrage at killing elephants in Bulawayo; fact he went on that trip with his mistress; the public apology he had to make; the mess of trying tosupport his daughter in the middle of a corruption scandal.

This is appalling - to try and bring in another Rf into this mess.

And now, a paternity suit in the offing.

Lost all respect
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  #414  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:30 PM
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In addition to the various scandals, is his poor health.
(Maybe too macho to admit his failing health is his primary reason for stepping down.) Indirectly attacking QEII & PC was a coward's way to save face.
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  #415  
Old 06-08-2014, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
If he actually said this, it is truly pathetic. We all know the reason he abdicated:- outrage at killing elephants in Bulawayo; fact he went on that trip with his mistress; the public apology he had to make; the mess of trying tosupport his daughter in the middle of a corruption scandal.

This is appalling - to try and bring in another Rf into this mess.

And now, a paternity suit in the offing.

Lost all respect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
In addition to the various scandals, is his poor health.
(Maybe too macho to admit his failing health is his primary reason for stepping down.) Indirectly attacking QEII & PC was a coward's way to save face.
Well said.

I think that the very last thing on KJC mind when he made the decision to abdicate was anything whatsoever to do with the BRF and more to do with the SRF, like his ill health, poor decisions, moral scandals and financial misconduct which has led to the precarious position he now holds, thanks in large part to his own shortcomings.

Taking a cheap shot at HMQEII and Prince Charles to deflect scrutiny is counterproductive. He would be better off just backing his heir!
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  #416  
Old 06-09-2014, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
We all know Kings and Queens are not voted in, but politicians certainly are if the monarchy no longer exists.
Ever looked into how the Federal President of Germany is selected? Yeah, selected, then "voted" in by the Federal Assembly (consisting of the parliament, state parliaments and celebrities), none of us lowly Germans is ever asked whom we want. And then they run off after a couple of years and we have to pay their astronomically high pensions, staffed office, security, car and car driver (all times five currently, plus the current one). I guess in the end the monarchy in Spain costs a lot less than our former Presidents (I read somewhere, that our Presidency costs just as much as the British monarchy). And last not least, when I look at Belgium or the Netherlands and I guess Spain won't be that different: former monarchs nerver retire entirely, they still work for their money. I saw one of the protesters in Spain on TV and her complaints, that in republics people get to elect their head-of-state and that it costs a lot less. I would have liked to laugh into that woman's face.

All in all: good for Spain to be getting such a nice man as their head-of-state! And a wonderful woman for Queen.

best wishes Michiru
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  #417  
Old 06-09-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Well said.

I think that the very last thing on KJC mind when he made the decision to abdicate was anything whatsoever to do with the BRF and more to do with the SRF, like his ill health, poor decisions, moral scandals and financial misconduct which has led to the precarious position he now holds, thanks in large part to his own shortcomings.

Taking a cheap shot at HMQEII and Prince Charles to deflect scrutiny is counterproductive. He would be better off just backing his heir!
JC would never take a cheap shot to QEII in this issue considering he agreed in the past that monarchs should stay on their roles for life.

In Spain the monarchy will always be questioned to a degree the British won't. King Juan Carlos has abdicated with Spain in mind. Nothing else.
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  #418  
Old 06-09-2014, 08:03 AM
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Interesting that many fellow-posters immediately felt stinged like a wasp and jump on articles clearly written purely on base of a testimonium de auditu. (Hearsay from a person that apparently has learned from another person whom apparently claims to have seen or heard something).
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  #419  
Old 06-09-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
Ever looked into how the Federal President of Germany is selected? Yeah, selected, then "voted" in by the Federal Assembly (consisting of the parliament, state parliaments and celebrities), none of us lowly Germans is ever asked whom we want. And then they run off after a couple of years and we have to pay their astronomically high pensions, staffed office, security, car and car driver (all times five currently, plus the current one). I guess in the end the monarchy in Spain costs a lot less than our former Presidents (I read somewhere, that our Presidency costs just as much as the British monarchy). And last not least, when I look at Belgium or the Netherlands and I guess Spain won't be that different: former monarchs nerver retire entirely, they still work for their money. I saw one of the protesters in Spain on TV and her complaints, that in republics people get to elect their head-of-state and that it costs a lot less. I would have liked to laugh into that woman's face.

All in all: good for Spain to be getting such a nice man as their head-of-state! And a wonderful woman for Queen.

best wishes Michiru
And in reading your comment I had to laugh out loud, we Americans have voted for our government and we(some of us)deserve what we voted for, a bunch of damn crooks. Mind you, I so agree with your comment, yet one thing is that there are more Germans then you and you can't vote for all of them........being this, sure we can vote, I have voted and now I refuse to do so, why, there are toooooo many idiots in America that vote for the same ole men in grey suits that know how to give the people the sweet talk and charm the ladies with great smiles and hold all those babies(that they hate by the way) and then these politicians that we vote for go into office and rob is blind, steal and lie and take all the benefits that the poor and what's left of the middle class away from us so that they can stuff their own bank accounts. All of them except (2) in the entire bunch think that they are KINGS/QUEENS and get all that your president gets plus more, we have over 300 of those kings and queens and they are costing us tons of money. So now they have okay the sell of drugs to the people to make even more money...........money is their God. Do I like my government.......hell NO and I can't vote them out of office because I am only one(1) vote and there are more votes then mine that want them in office. Being in the back pocket of bankers, wealthy people beyond any means we can even dream of, men who are trying to buy the votes of the people with lies and more lies........I have no one in my government that represents the people. If you want them, you can have the whole darn lot of them and please keep them.
*I have said this before when people complain they want a republic: The people that complain are being lied to by the republic party, they seem to think that once a republic, all THEIR PROBLEMS WILL GO AWAY, there will plenty of jobs, no unemployment, higher salaries, food on all tables, no poor people any more, everyone will live happy ever after..............then reality hits them in the face and whao......what have we done. I feel for you and the government and the Spanish people and all the Americans here that are so darn fed up with our government...........maybe it's time some heads roll..................if the people get disgusted enough they will.
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  #420  
Old 06-09-2014, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Interesting that many fellow-posters immediately felt stinged like a wasp and jump on articles clearly written purely on base of a testimonium de auditu. (Hearsay from a person that apparently has learned from another person whom apparently claims to have seen or heard something).
More than interesting, it's been obvious.
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