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  #301  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
For Infanta Leonor, the priority is the school, and she will attend only important events, like in Belgium or Netherlands.
I would have to definitely agree with this. Leonor has a lifetime ahead of her to be "official" and part of the workings of the royal household. I think the best thing her parents could do is allow her to remain a child and enjoy her childhood at least until she reaches her majority. There may be certain events that would be fun and educational for her in the years to come but I don't think they should stress royal duties until she is done with her education.
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  #302  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:38 PM
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This means that the workload should be split between two Queens and King Felipe. In my opinion, Infanta Elena should not be dragged into a thankless job. She should just live as a private citizen.
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  #303  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
About status, it should be no diferent for both of them, but their roles are clearly diferent, Leonor is a future Queen and will be first in-line in the succession to the Spanish Throne. Her role cannot be denied and unfortunately, they will be treated diferently, by the press, the population, and god forbid by their parents (not in love, they will be loved the same, but in education and preparation for their future roles, that will be diferent, just like Felipe had diferent upbrinding from his older sisters)
If Felipe and Letizia are smart, they will educate both daughters exactly the same. In this crazy world we have today, both children need to know the future role of Queen of Spain and the responsibilities of it.
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  #304  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:44 PM
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Indeed, in fact all royal children were brought up that way: enjoy a carefree youth "as normal as possible" and the real royal life will start after finishing education.
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  #305  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:54 PM
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If Felipe and Letizia are smart, they will educate both daughters exactly the same. In this crazy world we have today, both children need to know the future role of Queen of Spain and the responsibilities of it.
I'm afraid that the principle of primogeniture that underlies all hereditary monarchies precludes in practice educating all royal children exactly the same. Even if royal parents want to treat their children equally, the heir apparent will always have precedence in the law of the land and in rank/title. In Norway, for example, Ingrid Alexandra is an HRH whereas her younger brother, Sverre Magnus, is "just" an HH.
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  #306  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:59 PM
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Having just watched footage of today's military parade I have to say I was shocked at how frail Juan Carlos looked. I could quite believe that he's abdicating for health reasons.
I have to say that IMO all these abdications are a potential worry as they mean people will be use to older monarchs stepping aside when they either become too old or too unpopular. That could put their successors, such as Felipe, under huge pressure to do the same when ever they receive a large amount of criticism.
Whilst abdications may seem like a good idea now they may become something for the institutions of monarchies to regret later.
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  #307  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Having just watched footage of today's military parade I have to say I was shocked at how frail Juan Carlos looked. I could quite believe that he's abdicating for health reasons.
I have to say that IMO all these abdications are a potential worry as they mean people will be use to older monarchs stepping aside when they either become too old or too unpopular. That could put their successors, such as Felipe, under huge pressure to do the same when ever they receive a large amount of criticism.
Whilst abdications may seem like a good idea now they may become something for the institutions of monarchies to regret later.
This is not something I am worried about at all. Of the main monarchies in Europe, the last abdication was in 1980 before Queen Beatrix abdicated. Three abdications in a year might sound like a trend or new way of doing things but I do not think these recent events will set a precedent. The new King Felipe may well live out all his life as a king - the same for King Philippe. We could expect King Willem-Alexander to abdicate in 30 or 40 years, but there is nothing to stop him from reigning all his life if he wishes.
Even if abdication does become a popular thing to do, it's not something that will happen very often and it could be another 30 or 40 years before we see another abdication.
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  #308  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

This means that the workload should be split between two Queens and King Felipe. In my opinion, Infanta Elena should not be dragged into a thankless job. She should just live as a private citizen.
Princess Elena will be in the same situation as the Infantas Pilar and Margarita being the sister of the King, so I suspect her role will continue as it has always done, in terms of her charities and official duties. We might not see her so often though once the new king's daughters grow up.
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  #309  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
... [snipped]
I have to say that IMO all these abdications are a potential worry as they mean people will be use to older monarchs stepping aside when they either become too old or too unpopular. That could put their successors, such as Felipe, under huge pressure to do the same when ever they receive a large amount of criticism.
Whilst abdications may seem like a good idea now they may become something for the institutions of monarchies to regret later.
my bloding
Your observation is quite right. The precedent has been set. If another abdication happens due to unpopularity or age, it would not be surprising at all.
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  #310  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:14 PM
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You yourself have noted how frail the King looked. No one is glued to his throne. Juan Carlos, Philippe, Willem-Alexander, all of then made an oath in Parliament, in a strict non-secular ceremony and take their role in a ceremonial office of state which is fulfilled by hereditary succession, no more, no less.

Grand Duke Jean, Queen Beatrix, King Albert II and King Juan Carlos all thought that, after decades of kingship, the interests of the nation are in better hands by their successors. No one forced them to do this.

Imagine that Grand Duke Jean did not abdicate. Then today his son Henri would still be the Heir and he is granddad already, and going to his Sixties, with an adult and married eldest son also waiting in the queue.

Imagine that Queen Juliana did not abdicate in 1980. Then in 2004 (passing away of Juliana), the then already widowed Princess Beatrix would have start her Reign at the age of 67, that is above the general retirement age in the Netherlands...

Imagine Grand Duchess Charlotte did not abdicate in 1964. Then in 1985 (passing away of Charlotte), the new Grand Duke would start his Reign at the age of 65, which is the general retirement age in Luxembourg...

Monarchs just become way older thanks to improved nutrition and health care, monarchs no longer die on the battlefield or by complots, poisoning or revolutions. So, abdications are not that bad idea. In 1555 Charles V, the ruler of a vast Empire where the sun never went down, did abicate as well: he felt the interests of his immense Empire were better off in hands of his Heir.
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  #311  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:14 PM
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I'm very sad about the news. I wonder how will Leticia deal with Leonor stepping up as princess of Asturias given that she's so overly protected about their daughters not being in the spotlight.
It´s interesting to see that, now that Leti is going to be queen and there is nothing to do to avoid it, the main criticism is now over Leonor and "how unprepared she is"

How much I wish she killes it with her first official events and hopefully her first speech so some people shut up for once


About the date, everybody is taking for granted it will be June 18, that´s the date the parliament has proposed. The Royal House has to confirm it, but there is no reason for them to refuse that one.
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  #312  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
my bloding
Your observation is quite right. The precedent has been set. If another abdication happens due to unpopularity or age, it would not be surprising at all.
Also that is nothing new.

In 1840 Willem I of Orange-Nassau, King of the Netherlands, Grand Duke of Luxembourg abdicated out of disappointment of the loss of the Southern Netherlands (today's Belgium) and general fatigue.

In 1918 the German Emperor Wilhelm II abdicated after an absolute disastrous outcome of World War I. So did Tsar Nicholas II of Russia as well.

In 1919 Grand Duchess Marie Adelheid of Luxembourg abdicated because of general discontentment with her "too pro-German" attitude in WWI.

In 1936 King Edward VIII of GB&NI abdicated because he felt hindrance and opposition in his choice of partner.

In 1952 King Leopold III of the Belgians abdicated after a referendum which was on itself won, but by so narrrow margins that he felt his kingship was no longer "borne by the people".

So abdications because of discontentment or popularity have always been a regular phenomenon, to be honest.

:)

The recent abdications are all out of entire free will and done in an advanced age or realizing that the general decline of physique and health cause that the execution of the royal role no longer meets the standards one has set for themselves and others. When that realization is there, it seems wise to me to hand over the Crown to a new generation.
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  #313  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:26 PM
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Princess Elena will be in the same situation as the Infantas Pilar and Margarita being the sister of the King, so I suspect her role will continue as it has always done, in terms of her charities and official duties. We might not see her so often though once the new king's daughters grow up.
Only that Infanta Elena has succession rights (or will she loose it when her brother becomes King) which the Infantas Pilar and Margarita don't have or had.
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  #314  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:35 PM
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Announcement in Familia Real Española Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Famil...stream&fref=nf

Felipe will be proclaimed as King Felipe VI on June 18

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ID:	291587

infanta Leonor will be the new Princess of Asturias when she reach the age of majority.

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  #315  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
... [snipped]
The recent abdications are all out of entire free will and done in an advanced age or realizing that the general decline of physique and health cause that the execution of the royal role no longer meets the standards one has set for themselves and others. When that realization is there, it seems wise to me to hand over the Crown to a new generation.
I shall not be arguing about the free will of monarchs, who chose to retire. It will be a futile exercise. One might assume that they were given a choice they could not refuse. I guess the next thing to tamper with is to organise elections among those in the succession line. It would be truly democratic.
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  #316  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:41 PM
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Announcement in Familia Real Española Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Famil...stream&fref=nf

Felipe will be proclaimed as King Felipe VI on June 18

Attachment 291587

infanta Leonor will be the new Princess of Asturias when she reach the age of majority.

Attachment 291588
That facebook page is not official
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  #317  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tlklhm View Post

Attachment 291587

infanta Leonor will be the new Princess of Asturias when she reach the age of majority.

Attachment 291588
I guess they are taking for granted that Felipe and Letizia won't have any more children. What if Letizia, who is already 41, unexpectedly gets pregnant and gives birth to a baby boy ?

I know that scenario is very unlikely, but, formally speaking, I don't think a decision on Leonor's becoming Princess of Asturias should be made before the constitution is officially amended to eliminate male-preference primogeniture.
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  #318  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:51 PM
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Excuse me, have the future titles of King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia been announced yet?
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  #319  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:54 PM
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I wonder if we will see Infanta Cristina and Don Inaki attending the installation of the new King
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  #320  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I guess they are taking for granted that Felipe and Letizia won't have any more children. What if Letizia, who is already 41, unexpectedly gets pregnant and gives birth to a baby boy ?

I know that scenario is very unlikely, but, formally speaking, I don't think a decision on Leonor's becoming Princess of Asturias should be made before the constitution is officially amended to eliminate male-preference primogeniture.
Mbruno, that has happened before. Infanta Isabella, the eldest daughter of Queen Isabella, was proclaimed Princess of Asturias until birth of her niece, as well as Infanta Mercedes, daughter of King Alfonso, until her death since her father died before her brother was born and she died before her brother Alfonso had an heir.
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