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  #61  
Old 12-31-2009, 06:26 AM
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Yes, not only is Maria Teresa a genuine blood relative to the former Queen of Belgium, but she, herself, becomes monarch of a country that is right next to Belgium, a country that shares so much history with Belgium, and of course, the relationship that Fabiola has with Josephine [sister-in-law] who was Maria Teresa's mother-in-law is yet another--as you say interesting-- and coincidental angle.
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  #62  
Old 08-19-2010, 12:41 PM
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This is in response to a previous entry by Yanne.
What Rayarena has posted so far is entirely correct. MT does indeed have a well documented descent from aristocratic and noble families from Cuba. On the other hand I do have some comments and questions regarding what you have written before.
You said that MT’s father was a no one. You are mistaken, his family was wealthy, who in 1950, built CMQ, Cuba's first TV station. It was Latin America's third TV station.
It is correct that the Falla's are a newer family to Cuba, just like the robber baron families in the late XIX and early XX centuries in the US, who also came from very humble backgrounds.
Next you said: She has black blood from both her father and mother: On her father's side the Mestre branch had a black ancestor and like all blacks who came to Cuba was not even documented in the white book. Where is your documented proof?
You know very well that there were two sets of Sacramental books kept: one for Blancos (100% caucasians) and another for Pardos y Morenos (non caucasians) who included indians, blacks and any other racial mixture who could not be recorded in the Blancos book. No white person was ever listed in any other book just like you will never find anybody who was not white listed in the Blancos book and it is not true that blacks can not be documented, all their data is kept on the Pardos and Morenos books and can be obtained. On any copy requested today for any sacramental record it is clearly written from what book, folio and entry the record can be found.
Next you claim Her maternal great grandmother was half black (if in doubt ask her to show a picture) I want to ask you several things: Has María Teresa shown you this picture herself as you imply? or do you have a copy of this picture that you can share and post here ? and if indeed her maternal great grandmother was half black as you seem to know: what was her name? and in what book is her baptismal record listed? Innuendo is not valid in genealogy what only matters is the documentary evidence you can provide.
Let us continue with your next statement: As a matter of fact age always shows race and as she has become older and heavier it shows in her features as they are not very refined, this remark recalls similar detrimental comments posted about the Crown Princess of Sweden, are you implying that she also has a dubious background, derived from her mother HM Sylvia, Queen consort of Sweden?
Then you proceeded with: Even in Cuba she would have been considered ordinary and a bit mulatto. This brings me to very important questions. From this comment as well as others you have made you must be either a Cuban yourself or a descendant of the well documented Cuban founding families, is this correct? and if not what then is your background? Yanne is not a Spanish name after all, althought perhaps it might be a distortion of Janet, and English name.
You claim that: There is absolutely nothing aristocratic in her background. This is a complete falsehood on your part because if you are Cuban like I believe, you could not have made this mistake. Again it comes to mind: what documented proof do you have to the contrary?
Then you went on with: At the time of Maria Teresa's wedding her mother paid to have her ancestry documented and the writer Enrique Gonzalez de Mendoza-expert in the matter and supposedly related-. Now you are getting in an area I can enlighten you quite well. The person you quote here is Enrique Hurtado, not Gonzalez de Mendoza, who is still alive and who would be quite happy to set you straight himself. Besides, there are far too many people who are experts in Cuban genealogy who would not have tolerated nor allowed any fraud or wasted any time to show it clearly with documented proof.
It is a complete falsehood as well that Enrique explained to her that it was wiser to stop the search as there was an ancestor not far behind who was not white. I have to ask you as well where you there when this was said?
I know for a fact that you were not there because as I recall the incident it had nothing to do with what you imply, it was about giving up his author’s copyright on the research which he was not willing to do and therefore the information was never published.
So I hope that you take the time to answer these questions on what you wrote for the benefit of the rest of the readers of the Forum and ask you to please back up these statements with documented proof not hearsay.
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  #63  
Old 08-19-2010, 06:28 PM
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Since Maria Theresa has Spainish nobility in her blood line, is she related to the Spainish royal family?
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  #64  
Old 08-19-2010, 07:00 PM
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Maybe she has some common ancestor with the present members of the Spanish RF, but for finding them we have to go back for centuries; and I guess nobody would consider them relatives.
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  #65  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:58 AM
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Just one line of descent

The Grand Duchess has several lines of descent as she is 16 times a descendant of a Conquistador of Cuba, who was from Extremadura and whose father was a descendant of a half sister of Nuno Alvarez Pereira, both were children by different mothers of Alvaro Gonçalves Pereira, Prior do Crato. Also in that paternal ancestry is Fernando de la Cerda, son of Alfonso X "el Sabio" King of Castille, who married Blanche, princess of France, daughter of Saint Louis IX, King of France.
On the maternal side for that Conquistador from Extremadura, he is also a descendant of another branch of Castilian royalty through the Manuel de Villena family, which also brings descent from most of the Royal houses of Europe. Briefly I will delineate this one line.

William "the Bastard" Duke of Normandy, known as William "the Conqueror" King of England=Matilda of Flanders, daughter of Baudoin V, Count of Flanders and Adele, princess of France. Issue:
Henry I, King of England=Edith Matilda, princess of Scotland, daughter of Malcom III, King of Scotland, and Saint Margaret, Anglo-Saxon princess of England. Issue:
Matilda, princess of England= Geoffroy V, Count of Anjou, Touraine and Maine, son of Foulques V, Comte d'Anjou, consort King of Jerusalem, and his first wife Eremburge de la Fleche of Maine. Issue:
Henry II "Plantagenet", also called Henry Curtmantle, King of England=Aliénor d'Aquitaine, daughter of Guillaume X, Duke of Aquitaine and Aenor de Châtellerault. Issue:
Eleanor Plantagenet, princess of England=Alfonso VIII, King of Castille, son of Sancho III and Blanca de Navarra. Issue:

1- Berenguela, Queen of Castille=Alfonso IX, King of León and Galicia, son of Fernando II and Urraca princess of Portugal. Issue:
Fernando III "el Santo", King of Castille and Leon=Elizabeth Hohenstaufen, daughter of Philip Hohenstaufen, Holy Roman Emperor, King of Germany and Duke of Swabia and Eirine Angelina, imperial princess of Byzantium. Issue:
Alfonso X "el Sabio", King of Castille and Leon-Galicia=Violante, princess of Aragon, dauhter of Jaume II King of Aragon and Jolánta Arpad, daughter of Andras Arpad, King of Hungary and Iolante de Courtenay. Issue:
Fernando de Castilla, called "de la Cerda", Infante of Castile=Blanche Capet, princess of France, daughter of Saint Louis IX and Margaret de Provence.

2-Blanca de Castilla=Louis VIII Capet, King of France, son of Philippe II Auguste Capet, King of France and Isabelle de Hainaut.Issue:
Louis IX "le Saint" Capet, King of France=Margaret of Provance, daughter of Raimond Berenguer IV, scion of the Counts of Barcelona who had inherited the kingdom of Aragon, Comte de Provence and Forcalquier, and Beatrice de Savoie (Savoy). Issue:
Blanche, princess of France= Fernando de Castilla, called "de la Cerda", Infante of Castile, mentioned above. Issue:
Alfonso de la Cerda, Infante de Castilla= Mahaut de Brienne-Eu, daughter of Jean I de Brienne, Comte d'Eu, and Beatrice de Châtillon St. Pol. Issue:
Luis de la Cerda, Comte de Talmont and Clermont, Admiral of France, named Sovereign Prince of the Canary Islands by Papal Decree=Leonor de Guzmán, daughter of Alfonso Pérez de Guzmán "el Bueno" and Maria Alfonso Coronel. Issue:
Juan de la Cerda, Lord of Gibraleón. Prior to his marriage he fathered a son with Sol Martínez, daughter of Martín González. Issue:
Martín González de la Cerda=Violante Alvares Pereira, daughter of Alvaro Gonçalves Pereira, Prior do Crato, with Marinha Domingues. Issue:
Mahalda de la Cerda=Fernán Gutiérrez de Valverde, IX Lord of the Torre and Dehesa de Castellanos and Alcaide of the fortress of Alburquerque. Issue:
María Gutiérrez de Valverde de la Cerda=Gonzalo Porcallo, Alcaide of the fortress of Alburquerque in Badajoz, Spain; son or Vasco Porcalho, Commander of the Order of Aviz in Portugal and Alcaide of the fortress of Villaviciosa, and Beatriz Morán. Issue:
Vasco Porcallo de la Cerda=Teresa de Sotomayor, daughter of Gutierre de Sotomayor Garcés de Aza, XXXI Grand Master of the Order of Alcántara, and Isabel de Henestrosa y Mendoza. Issue:
Gutierre Porcallo de Sotomayor= María Aldonza Manuel de Figueroa, natural daughter of Gomez Suarez de Figueroa and Beatriz Manuel de Villena, half sister of María Manuel de Villena, wife of Lorenzo Suárez de Figueroa, lord and first Conde de Feria, and brother to Gomez. Issue:
Vasco Porcallo de Figueroa, Conquistador of Cuba.
It is from this man that MT descends 16 times which carries a double line of descent in the outline above from William "the Conqueror". With further investigation of the ancestral lines of some of the people mentioned here more lines to European Royal houses will be encountered, repeating the same connections to these very royal lines already listed.
I have not gone into the ancestry of Pedro Manuel de Villena Sousa, grandfather of Maria Aldonza Manuel de Figueroa, mentioned above, as this family is also a colateral line of the Kings of Castilla through Juan Manuel, Infante of Castilla, Lord of Escalona, son of King Fernando III and Elizabeth Hohenstaufen whose wife was Beatrice de Savoia, daughter of Amadeus IV Count de Savoia, Chablais and Aosta, and Cecilia des Baux-Orange "Passerose". Also not mentioned here is Mt's descend from the Zayas Bazán family, who are descendants of Jaume Infante de Aragon or the illustrious noble Mendoza family who are agnate descendants of the Sovereign Lords of Vizcaya. Not only will we derive many more connections for MT but we will find out that the present heads of European Royal houses descend from these same ancestral lines as the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg.
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  #66  
Old 08-21-2010, 02:09 AM
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Josjul, thank you for your amazing and detailed outline of MT's pedigree. I'm really quite astonished that more has not been written about MT's ancestry, or better put, astonished that what has been written of her ancestry misleadingly depicts her as simply a rich girl with a bourgeois and undistinguished background. Of all of the "commoners" who have married into royalty and quite a few can be listed, including Grace of Monaco, Letizia of Spain, Mary of Denmark, Mette-Marit of Norway, Silvia of Sweden, and Maxima of Holland, etc... MT has the most distinguished ancestry as she has quite an array of ennobled relatives including a Countess from Napolean III's court, La Comtesse de Merlin, who was reputed to have the most exquisite literary salon in France. What's more, she is related to the former Queen of Belgium, Fabiola. It astonishes me that this relation with a reigning queen [at the time of her engagement] was somehow missed by the press.
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  #67  
Old 08-26-2010, 10:23 AM
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MT's Montalvo paternal line of descent

As Rayerana has already posted the MT's naternal descent from the Montalvo family, her is her descent from her paternal side.


1.- Lorenzo Montalvo Ruiz de Alarcóny Montalvo, 1st Count of Macuriges Married twice:
=1= Mariana Bruñón de Vértiz y Arancibia

2-José Rafael Montalvo y Bruñón de Vertiz, 2nd Count of Macuriges
= Ana Josefa Sotolongo y González-Carvajal

3-María del Rosario Montalvo y Sotolongo
= Juan Esteban de Xénes Spínola y Arancibia

4.- María del Tránsito de Xénes y Montalvo
= Agustín Cerice y Marcanalt

5.- Agustín Cerice y Xénes
= María Gertrudis Lima, descendant of the Marqueses of Santa Olalla

6.- Águeda Cerice y Lima
=Lucas Álvarez y Guillén.

7.-Lucas Álvarez y Cerice
= Narcisa Tabío y de la Lanza

8.- Mª Narcisa Álvarez y Tabío
= José Antonio Mestre y Ramos-Almeyda

9.- José Antonio Mestre y Álvarez
= Mª Teresa Batista y Falla

10.- Mª Teresa Mestre y Batista
=HRH Henri GD Luxembourg.


Next I will be working in the relationship betwenn HM Fabiola of Belgium and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg.
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  #68  
Old 09-02-2010, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josjul View Post
as rayerana has already posted the mt's naternal descent from the montalvo family, her is her descent from her paternal side.


1.- lorenzo montalvo ruiz de alarcóny montalvo, 1st count of macuriges married twice:
=1= mariana bruñón de vértiz y arancibia

2-josé rafael montalvo y bruñón de vertiz, 2nd count of macuriges
= ana josefa sotolongo y gonzález-carvajal

3-maría del rosario montalvo y sotolongo
= juan esteban de xénes spínola y arancibia

4.- maría del tránsito de xénes y montalvo
= agustín cerice y marcanalt

5.- agustín cerice y xénes
= maría gertrudis lima, descendant of the marqueses of santa olalla

6.- águeda cerice y lima
=lucas álvarez y guillén.

7.-lucas álvarez y cerice
= narcisa tabío y de la lanza

8.- mª narcisa álvarez y tabío
= josé antonio mestre y ramos-almeyda

9.- josé antonio mestre y álvarez
= mª teresa batista y falla

10.- mª teresa mestre y batista
=hrh henri gd luxembourg.


next i will be working in the relationship betwenn hm fabiola of belgium and the grand duchess of luxembourg.
i look forward to your findings!!!
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  #69  
Old 09-04-2010, 03:06 PM
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Ancestral line of descent of MT

Sorry about the delay, but it has taken me a bit longer than anticipated, as I have to check the references for each generation in the entry below.
This is the line for the Grand Duchess which will be followed later with the descent from this very line for HM Fabiola, Dowager Queen of Belgium, which will be identcal in the first four generations. I opted to go back a few generations to include the beginning of the Marqués de Villalta title.


01.- Don Gonzalo de Herrera y Tapia, 1st marqués de Villalta (title granted by king Carlos II, on May 13, 1668), was born Oct. 26, 1598, in Villalta del Alcor, Huelva, España, Knight of the order of Calatrava in 1562, Familiar of the Holy Inquisition, Alguacil Mayor in Cartagena de Indias, Infantry Field Marshall, Interim Gobernador and Captain General of Cartagena de Indias in 1637, and named Governor of Antioquia in 1658 (position which he was unable to fulfill due to health problems). He married in Sevilla, doña Francisca Maldonado y Clavijo de Armas, born in Sevilla, España. Among their issue was:

02.- Don Gonzalo de Herrera y Maldonado, 2nd Marqués de Villalta. Sargent Major of Cartagena de Indias (1670), baptized at the Catedral in Cartagena de Indias, Dec. 11, 1632, and who died in that same city on Aug. 3, 1681. He married at that same church on Feb. 3, 1681, doña Teresa de Gastelbondo y Uzquiano, baptized in Cartagena de Indias, Jan. 28, 1654, where she made a Last Will and Testament dated Nov. 11, 1707. She was the daughter of Sebastián de Gastelbondo y Monreal and Mariana Uzquiano and Fernández de Pineda. Their son was:

03.- Martín Francisco de Herrera y Gastelbondo, 3rd Marqués de Villalta, baptized at the Cathedral of Cartagena de Indias, in Jan. 25, 1674. He married at that same church in 1702, his cousin, doña María Ana Estefanía de Berrio-Guzmán y Núñez de Quero, daughter of Captain Gonzalo de Berrio-Guzmán y Herrera and María Antonia Núñez de Quero y Portocarrero. María Ana married secondly Diego de Córdoba y Lasso de la Vega, marqués del Vado del Maestre, captain of the Guard and Knight of the Order of Santiago, distinguished scion of the house of the Counts de Puertollano, who took possession of the Captaincy General of Cuba on Oct. 3, 1695. The Marqués de Villalta and his wife had as their son:

04.- Gonzalo Luis de Herrera y Berrio-Guzmán, 4th Marqués de Villalta, Knight of the Order of Carlos III,baptized Jan. 21, 1704 at the parish church of San Juan Evangelista de San Puer, in Cartagena de Indias, Nueva Granada (now Colombia), who was buried on Sep. 22, 1776 at the Cathedral of Habana, having made a Last Will and Testament with his wife, dated May 31, 1772, and who granted a codicial dated Nov. 21, 1775. He was Alcalde ordinario and director of the Real Factoría de Tabacos. He married at the Cathedral in Habana, Cuba, April 25, 1722, doña María Catalina Chacón y Torres, daughter of Félix Chacón y Castellón and Tomasa María de Torres-Ayala y Bayona (from the Counts de Casa Bayona and Marqués de Casa Torres), who was baptized Aug. 25, 1704 at the Cathedral in Habana, Cuba; and who died in the same city on May 7, 1781. Among their children was:

05.- Luisa María de Herrera y Chacón. BornMay 29, 1729 in Habana, where she died on Feb. 8, 1806. She made a Last Will and Testament dated May 24, 1779. She married secondly on July 11, 1746 at the Cathedral in Habana, Juan José O' Farrill y Arriola, son of Ricardo O'Farrill y O’Daly and María Josefa Arriola y García de Londoño.Con sucesión en:

06.- Doña María Josefa O’Farril y Herrera, baptized at the Cathedral in Habana, Cuba, on March 9, 1748, where her death certificate is recorded on April 9, 1784. She married at the same church, on Sept. 5, 1768, don Ignacio Montalvo y Ambulodi, Conde de Casa Montalvo (title granted by king Carlos III of Spain, on Oct. 24, 1779), Bridadier of the Royal Spanish Armies, Colonel of the Dragoons Regiment in Matanzas, Prior of the Real Consulado in Habana, Gentelman of the His Majesty’s Chamber, Member of the Sociedad de Amigos del País, and Knight of the Order of Santiago, born in Habana, baptized at the Cathedral on Aug 1st, 1748 and his death record is kept at the same church dated Aug. 9, 1795. Among their children was:

07.- Don José Lorenzo Montalvo y O'Farrill, II Conde de Casa Montalvo, baptized at the Cathedral in Habana, Dec. 7, 1773, and his burial record there is dated Sept. 12, 1814. He made a cojoint Last Will and Testament dated Sept. 7, 1814. He married at the same church on Feb. 17, 1794, doña María Micaela Núñez del Castillo y Espinosa de Contreras, daugther opf Juan Clemente Núñez del Castillo y Molina, IV Marqués of San Felipe y Santiago and I Count del Castillo, Grandee of Spain, and María Ignacia Espinosa de Contreras y Jústiz. She was La Habana, el 12 de noviembre de 1774 y fallecida allí, el 21 de septiembre de 1842. Among their children was:

08.- Doña María Micaela Montalvo y Núñez del Castillo, whose burial record is kept at the Santo Cristo church in Habana and is dated Jan. 11, 1879. She married at the Santo Ángel church in Habana, on Jan. 7, 1820, don Joaquín Pedroso y Echeverría, Alcalde of Habana and Knight of the Order of Isabel la Católica , born in Habana on Aug. 16, 1795 and his death record is recorded at the Santo Cristo church in Habana, dated Feb. 16, 1879. He made a Last Will and Testament dated March 18, 1872. He was the son of Ignacio Pedroso y Barreto and his second wife doña María Luisa Echevarría y Peñalver.. Among their children was

09.- Doña María de las Mercedes Pedroso y Montalvo, born in Habana in 1835 and who died there in 1895. She married at Espíritu Santo church in Habana, on March 30, 1855, don Antonio González de Mendoza y Bonilla, baptized at Guadalupe church in Habana, April 21, 1828 and who died in Habana, on Jan. 14, 1906; son of don Antonio González de Mendoza y Govantes and María del Rosario Bonilla y Cabrera. He was a lawyer by profession, Alcalde in Habana, and the first Chief Magistrate of the Supreme Court of Justice in Cuba. Among their children was:

10.- Doña Julia González de Mendoza y Pedroso, born in Habana April 12, 1860 and died in the same city on April 16, 1934. Married in Habana, on April 12, 1883, don Melchor Batista y Varona, lawyer, born in Puerto Príncipe (Camagüey city) in 1859 and died in Habana in 1932, son of don Melchor Batista y Caballero and doña Irene de Varona y de la Torre. Among their children was:

11.- Don Agustín Batista y González de Mendoza. Lawyer. Born in Habana in 1899 and died in Geneva, Switzerland in 1968. He married in El Vedado, Habana, Cuba in 1926, doña María Falla y Bonet, born in Santa Isabel de Las Lajas, Las Villas in 1898 and who died in Geneva, Switzerland in 1973. Among their children was:

12.- Doña María Teresa Batista y Falla, born in El Vedado, Habana, Cuba in 1928 and died in Geneva, Switzerland in 1988. She married en El Vedado, in 1951, don José Antonio Mestre y Álvarez, born in El Vedado, Habana, Cuba in 1926, son of José Antonio Mestre y Ramos-Almeyda and María Narcisa Álvarez y Tabío. They were the parents of:

13.- Doña María Teresa Mestre y Batista, who married HRH Henri Albert Gabriel de Nassau-Bourbon, Grand Duke of Luxembourg.
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  #70  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:41 AM
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Josjul, thank you for providing further details of Maria Teresa's impressive family tree! As I've mentioned before, when one looks at MT's family tree and that of other recent commoner princess consorts, MT's far outshines the others. In fact, MT's family tree-- full of marquises, counts and knights-- has far more in common with a Princess Diana than it does with someone like Princess Letizia of Spain, Mary of Denmark, Maxima of Holland, Mette-Marit of Norway, Silvia of Sweden or the future Princess of Wales, Kate Middleton, none of which to my knowledge have any blue-blooded ancestry.
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  #71  
Old 01-02-2011, 01:46 PM
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Members of a West Indian plantocracy married each other or gentry from the ruling European country. So, the fact that the Mestres went to New York when Castro took over indicates that they were not plantocracy and were of the merchant class because the Cuban plantocracy would have gone to Spain after Castro's revolution.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan D View Post
Members of a West Indian plantocracy married each other or gentry from the ruling European country. So, the fact that the Mestres went to New York when Castro took over indicates that they were not plantocracy and were of the merchant class because the Cuban plantocracy would have gone to Spain after Castro's revolution.

Maria Teresa's family on her mother's side was in fact part of the West Indian plantocracy. It was basically founded by the union of two very powerful 17th century families. In 1690, Richard O'Daly O'Farrill an Irishman from Monserrat moved to Cuba. He sold his plantation in Monserrat and came with all of his wealth and 124 slaves. He established himself there, purchased land and married a Cuban aristocrat. They had several children and one of these children married into the Montalvo family, a family that was founded by a well-to-do Andalusian merchant who migrated to Cuba in 1730. The O'Farrill's became enormously wealthy when Richard O'Daly O'Farrill got a grant from the crown to establish the English Slave Company. In essence, O'Farrill became a slave captain and provided slaves to the entire Spanish Caribbean. The Montalvo's, on the other hand, became one of the wealthiest merchant families in Havana. The union of these two families created even more wealth. And they did what many wealthy families from the 1700's did, they acquired titles of nobility that gave them the prestige to match their enormous wealth.
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  #73  
Old 03-31-2011, 06:23 PM
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This thread has been cleaned up. In the future futher unsubstantiated accusations towards MT's parents will be deleted immidiately.
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  #74  
Old 05-30-2011, 02:15 AM
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As has already been posted in the State Visit to Norway thread, from the TRF Blog:

Quote:
Grand Duchess’ Brother in Coma

The elder brother of Luxembourg’s Grand Duchess Maria Teresa is critically ill in a Florida hospital.

Antonio Mestre, 58, is currently in a coma after suffering from cardiovascular problems over the weekend. He is being monitored by doctors, and his condition has been described as “alarming” by the Luxembourg Grand Ducal Court.

The Grand Duchess will travel to Florida early this week to be with her brother, meaning she will only be partaking in the first day of the state visit to Norway she and her husband, Grand Duke Henri, have schedueled.
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  #75  
Old 05-30-2011, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayarena View Post
I'm really quite astonished that more has not been written about MT's ancestry, or better put, astonished that what has been written of her ancestry misleadingly depicts her as simply a rich girl with a bourgeois and undistinguished background.
I trust I won't seem insensitive discussing MT's ancestry when her brother is ill. I do hope the Mestres are bearing up. But news of her brother brought me to this thread, and I wish I had checked it out years ago. I must echo Rayarena's astonishment that MT's ancestry has been ignored. I've always had a sense that her family was rather old and distinguished. I was annoyed a few years ago when watching a TV show about royals that focused on the Grand Ducal couple for a few minutes. Some commentator talked about the supposed opposition to the marriage, and said it was only allowed to come to pass eventually because MT came from a very wealthy family. I remember thinking how preposterous it was for this "expert" to suppose that A) the already-very-rich Jean and Josephine-Charlotte cared about financial status and B) that MT's distinguished heritage wasn't worthy of mention and wouldn't have been a much bigger strike in her favor than money.

But though I knew her family tree was distinguished, I had no idea just how aristocratic it was! The lineages of many currently-titled families in Europe have less snob appeal than MT's. What makes it strange is that MT has been written about quite extensively by the international media over the years, and it doesn't seem like her aristocratic standing would have taken much digging to unearth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayarena View Post
As I've mentioned before, when one looks at MT's family tree and that of other recent commoner princess consorts, MT's far outshines the others. In fact, MT's family tree-- full of marquises, counts and knights-- has far more in common with a Princess Diana than it does with someone like Princess Letizia of Spain, Mary of Denmark, Maxima of Holland, Mette-Marit of Norway, Silvia of Sweden or the future Princess of Wales, Kate Middleton, none of which to my knowledge have any blue-blooded ancestry.
Very true. This is a subject about which I can go on all day There are interesting contrasts among the others you mention. Maxima, for example, has a family tree that, while it lacks the noble branches of Maria Theresa's, is much "better" (for lack of a better word) than Letizia's, Mary's, Mette-Marit's, or Kate's. She can trace her ancestry to some of the earliest European citizens of several South American countries. Even as far back as three hundred years ago, a number of her ancestors were landowners, naval captains, government officials, and doctors - not bluebloods, perhaps, but certainly not peasants; and branches of the family have been consistently well-placed ever since. (Ancestry of Maxima Zorreguieta)

The Sommerlaths, too, have long known which fork to use. Their ancestry is available online (Ancestry of Queen Silvia of Sweden (b. 1943)), and reveals that Queen Silvia's great*9 grandfather, who died in 1651, was indeed a humble blacksmith. His son, however, became a schoolmaster, an occupation held by several generations of Sommerlaths, until they became clergymen for several generations more. Of Silvia's mother's family, the only thing I know for sure is that, like the Zorreguita's, their roots in South America go back centuries. I've read that they were coffee planters (implying that they belonged to the "plantocracy" that was referred to earlier), but I don't know if this is true.

So there's commoners and then there's commoners. The Zorregueitas of a century ago may or may not have been okay with being lumped in with their contemporaries among the Sommerlaths, but they certainly would have resented being compared to the Donaldsons, Ortizes, and Hoibys!

Other families with mixed family trees that come in for comparison are the de Monpezats, Shands, and Middletons, but I don't want to write an essay!

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Originally Posted by IslandDweller View Post
So there's commoners and then there's commoners. The Zorregueitas of a century ago may or may not have been okay with being lumped in with their contemporaries among the Sommerlaths, but they certainly would have resented being compared to the Donaldsons, Ortizes, and Hoibys!
Actually, I shouldn't have spoken as if I KNOW that the three latter-mentioned families are of humble origin. I've tried unsuccessfully to delve into the Donaldson background, and not at all into the Ortizes or Hoiby's (I only know that Letizia's grandfathers were a journalist and a taxi driver). For all I know, the resective great-grandfathers of these three CPs were a Scottish laird, a Spanish hidalgo, and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Norway, but my impression is that they were at the other end of the social order.
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayarena View Post
Josjul, thank you for providing further details of Maria Teresa's impressive family tree! As I've mentioned before, when one looks at MT's family tree and that of other recent commoner princess consorts, MT's far outshines the others. In fact, MT's family tree-- full of marquises, counts and knights-- has far more in common with a Princess Diana than it does with someone like Princess Letizia of Spain, Mary of Denmark, Maxima of Holland, Mette-Marit of Norway, Silvia of Sweden or the future Princess of Wales, Kate Middleton, none of which to my knowledge have any blue-blooded ancestry.
I would like to say the Catherine Middleton is a distant cousin of William.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:48 PM
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Wondeful geneology work on Maria Theresa's family lineage. Thank you to all for the careful documentation.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:43 AM
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Actually,Maria Teresa's ancestry is very interesting. Is she of Amerindian background as well( as it's stated on her wiki page)?
The sad moment I came across in wiki is that Maria Teresa suffered a lot because of her mother-in-law's attitude towards her ethnic background, if it were true, it's just terrible, but I think the most important is that she was always loved and supported by her husband.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:43 PM
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They are both deceased. qepd
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:30 AM
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Some noble families are too inbred to secure genetic health. The bringing in of common blood is to be thought of as a plus, in these cases. This is what strengthens a family. If Amerindian blood is brought in, this is one way to strengthen the line. Vice-versa would be true. I am amused by the robber baron reputation of MT's Irish ancestor cataloged here. He, too, robber baron though he might be, brought in another "line" which is a genetic plus. Of course, there are some families who have strong genetic weakness, and bringing them in to a line will not improve it. One might say that some of the European royal families had lines which were not healthy. This is known. Some of these genes are remarkably persistent, others fade more quickly. Maria Teresa seems to be healthy and has produced healthy children, so she in effect proved she had good genes. Her husband's family had some degree of close intermarrying in it, and thus was a greater genetic risk, but here too all seems (from what we can see) to have gone well. May they be blessed to continue in health! What fine looking children came from Maria Teresa and Henri. Best looking bunch on the block!
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