Josephine-Charlotte and Maria-Teresa's Relationship

[susan alicia]

Originally Posted by Ephram

I, for one simply don't believe in such story of the conflict between both Grand Duchesses especially this one which has been well-circulated especially after her demise.

Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte is a great lady and I don't think she should have bad relationship with her daughter in law.

Even if she does, it has to be regarded as purely private matter and don't need to publicise or have our critics on it.

As royalists we should preserve good name of all royal families. Think of their great contributions from positive side. Spread the glory of their kingdoms to all. Everyone does make mistake and there's nothing to be so important about it to the extent that we should open any column to talk about royal gossip. Same goes to Prince Bernhard whereby in the previous weeks, so many bad stories on illegal daughter, Lockeheed bribery and so forth. I mean, we don't need to talk about all those things. Those are gone already. What we should do is to display their good image.

O, come on, we are royalists, man.

Many of us are then not royalists in the way you describe and
if they depended on people who qualified as royalists according to your description they would be in big trouble because it is a very small group who thinks like that.

mentioning the 2 daughters born out of wedlock in the same breath as the lockheed bribery seems strange to me, the first being about love and the latter being about money.

[msfroyste]

here's a link to a very interesting conversation going on on the benelux message board between someone who actually knows about the RLF( j-c and family) relationships with each other. http://members3.boardhost.com/Beneluxroyal/index.html

[Ephram]

mentioning the 2 daughters born out of wedlock in the same breath as the lockheed bribery seems strange to me, the first being about love and the latter being about money.[/quote]

I mentioned both issues as the examples of the bad issues which people talked on the previous weeks during and after the funeral of Prince Bernhard. I don't care whether they are money issue or love issue.

Maybe the 'definition' of royalist I meant previously is seen as 'too radical' but I just don't like to talk something negative about royals even if they are facts. I mean we should not make such issues to be subjected to any criticism.

[Danielane]

Originally Posted by Ephram

mentioning the 2 daughters born out of wedlock in the same breath as the lockheed bribery seems strange to me, the first being about love and the latter being about money.

I mentioned both issues as the examples of the bad issues which people talked on the previous weeks during and after the funeral of Prince Bernhard. I don't care whether they are money issue or love issue.

Maybe the 'definition' of royalist I meant previously is seen as 'too radical' but I just don't like to talk something negative about royals even if they are facts. I mean we should not make such issues to be subjected to any criticism.[/quote]
It's disrespectful from you to say "we", talking of all the members of this forum like royalists, because I'm not sure everyone is. As for myself, I'm a strong convinced french republican, but very interested in royalties, though, and I can't share your opinion.

[drimal]

Ooh hot discussion on TheRoyalForums!
Well as I said in a post before it is not fair and respectful at all if we talk about Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte that she has done nothing good in her life and was terrorising the whole family as some members did here. She died two days ago after a cancer battle of two years and she was a very strong personality who never stopped thinking to win this battle one time. But despite her astonishing courage she died and left behind a very sad husband (former Grand Duke Jean).
Can you imagine how hard it is for a 84 year old person to lose his wife after 51 years of marriage?:(
Can you imagine how difficult the last years were for the whole Grand Ducal family?:(
Can you imagine how the employees feel which saw her during years? (I saw a woman on TV who cried!):(
Can you imagine how the doctors feel which have done everything possible to help the sick sovereign but however she died?:(

... I stop here because there were even more of these questions to pose!

I have lost in the last years 5 family members and know how terrible it is to lose a related person. And my family is not Royal so we have less administrations which have to be done than after the death of a Grand Duchess. After her death they had to call all the members of the big family and than inform the government, journalists are around Fischbach Castle, the TV is showing pictures the whole day of the Grand Duchess... and so on.

They have so many things to do that it is impossible to them to realize immediately the whole situation. Than, after days with less business they see everywhere the pics of the dear person which has left them. Grand Duke Jean will be alone in Fischbach Castle (his children cannot be there all the time!) and imagine how depressing it is to be alone in such a big castle!:(

That were my thoughts after the death of Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte!

PS: I remarked today that my signature was saying something about J-C although I have it since the beginning of the year!

[gaggleofcrazypeople]

Yes, poor Jean.In my opinion, he should move in with Henri and MT's family that way he will be surrounded by people and won't be lonely. Of course, living with any of his other children is perfectly fine, but I just thought of Henri first.

[Nathalian]

I don´t know......remember theses so called problems that Josephine had with MT?? It´s hard.....But, what he chooses will be great for him...but, he´s in a lot a pain these days...It´s best to not leave him alone...

[hillary_nugent]

This is not really relevant, but did JC pass away at her home with her family or alone in a hospital? :(

[KatieLouise]

Actually drimal, on a lighter note, when I read your signature I did think of Joséphine-Charlotte and thought it was very appropriate. :)

[gogm]

This (partial) Cubano is partial to MT, but Josephine-Charlotte had more than a few redeeming virtues. Maria Teresa may be able to live a bit easier now, but it is still a loss when a good person dies.

As for the Fulgencio Batista connection, remember how the Simon Wiesenthal protagonist (if my memory serves me correctly) in Boys from Brazil did not do anything against a child that was genetically Adolf Hitler. The child in Pennsylvania was not Adolf Hitler, even though the DNA was identical. Fugencio Batista was Fulgencio Batista while Maria Teresa Mestre y Batista is Maria Teresa Mestre y Batista, another person to be evaluated separately.

[drimal]

Originally Posted by hillary_nugent

This is not really relevant, but did JC pass away at her home with her family or alone in a hospital? :(

She died at 5.55 am (GMT) of the 10th January 2005 on Fischbach Castle. Thus I assume that the family was around her as she died. According to witnesses the light in front of Fischbach Castle was on the whole night.

The last official pictures existing from her were done after the birth of Sibilla Weiler and Prince Guillaume's fourth child Jean (born on 13th July 2004) in July!

[hillary_nugent]

I'm glad her family was there when she passed away...at least she wasn't all alone ^__^

[susan alicia]

Originally Posted by gogm

This (partial) Cubano is partial to MT, but Josephine-Charlotte had more than a few redeeming virtues. Maria Teresa may be able to live a bit easier now, but it is still a loss when a good person dies.

As for the Fulgencio Batista connection, remember how the Simon Wiesenthal protagonist (if my memory serves me correctly) in Boys from Brazil did not do anything against a child that was genetically Adolf Hitler. The child in Pennsylvania was not Adolf Hitler, even though the DNA was identical. Fugencio Batista was Fulgencio Batista while Maria Teresa Mestre y Batista is Maria Teresa Mestre y Batista, another person to be evaluated separately.

WHAT??
(do not understand but never mind, very off topic)

[hillary_nugent]

i don't understand what gogm was trying to say...can some one clarify what he meant? is there two MT's??? O__O

[msfroyste]

poor, poor, grand duke jean. that pic of him in front of j-c's coffin was really heart wrenching. and mt probably is sad too, as evidenced by the handkerchief. i really feel sorry for her family, most of all.

[KatieLouise]

I think gogm is saying, MT should have been judged on her own individual merits, not on her ancestry. This relates to J-C's (alleged) objection to MT's (alleged) family links with former Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista. (gogm I hope that's what you meant)

[hillary_nugent]

Originally Posted by msfroyste

poor, poor, grand duke jean. that pic of him in front of j-c's coffin was really heart wrenching. and mt probably is sad too, as evidenced by the handkerchief. i really feel sorry for her family, most of all.

yeah i felt the same...he seems so lonely...:(

[Nathalian]

Just because her last name was Batista??? Humm....I think that´s more to see...it´s weird... Well...when you lose somebody so important....DC Jean maybe is also alliviated...at least, she´s not soffering anymore...and, he must be in a lot of pain...

[Reina]

I thought that her brother, King ALbert of the Belgians, was just present... That is sweet that he was. Gosh it must be really hard losing a sibling, a person you grew up with and shared the same parent with :(

[gaggleofcrazypeople]

Originally Posted by hillary_nugent

i don't understand what gogm was trying to say...can some one clarify what he meant? is there two MT's??? O__O

How did you think of that?