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  #141  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:41 PM
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I think with the apartment we have gone a little too far. What is she doing there or not, we don't know.

I agree with Lise. That's what I think too.

As long there is no first-hand story, it's hard to believe Maria-Teresa. Josephine-Charlotte never went to the press. She has been a king's daughter and her mother was one of the most popular queens. Her brothers were both kings and she herself was a Grand Duchess. I think she knew how to handle things.

Some situations don't need to be public (of course it's interesting for us), and that is exactly what Maria-Teresa done wrong. And that is the main difference between these two Ladies.

The one takes it, the other goes out and cries.

I'm not against someone (i have to admit, M-T is not my favorite royal), but there is no judging on Josephine-Charlotte, when there is no prove (well, one of my favorite royals).
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  #142  
Old 04-23-2015, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I have long suspected that the marriage of Henri and MT is not the picture perfect idyll it seems to be. I have heard rumors of infidelity on both sides. I have also recently learned from what I consider a reliable source that MT keeps an apartment in Paris where she "escapes" every time she is free from official duties in Luxembourg, and that she does this with Henri's approval. It might be the reason she was on hand in January to attend the anti-terrorist march in the French capital without her husband...she was already in Paris at the time.

Whatever their problems, they seem as devoted, hardworking and dignified a Royal couple as any in Europe. They have raised a family that, in my opinion, could be a model for most of the others to follow.

Whatever works for them. Who are we too judge. No marriage is the same.


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  #143  
Old 04-23-2015, 06:10 PM
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Josephine Charlotte had to keep her emotions in check from a very early age. Also, she was the emotional and motherly support for her two brothers after the death of Astrid. That toughened her up, I'm certain.

Then, she had a very difficult step-mother to deal with, German occupation and confinement during WWII, exile and the forced abdication of her father. It is merely speculation, according to what I know, that she was in love with a commoner. I thought I read a story about Leopold III telling how JC came to him and happily announced her engagement to Jean. So, there's two sides to that issue. Charlotte and Elizabeth were keen for a match between JC and Jean.

Her wedding pre-festivities and the day itself were super stressful thanks to Lillian de Rethy and it wasn't just JC who was stressed and upset, but also Elizabeth as well.

Now, it seems to me that JC was a tightly wound package. That's no character flaw. It's just a character trait.

It is my opinion that what MT did after Josephine Charlotte's death was reprehensible. She spoke about someone who could not (and never would have had she been alive) defend herself or provide her own context or side of the story. To blab to the press is a real character flaw, in my humble opinion, especially about the dead. And, what a horrible slap in the face to Jean and disrespect for the ducal house and family.

That does not mean that I dislike MT, that just means that I think it was not only a faux pas, but a horribly tacky move.

Just my .02
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  #144  
Old 04-25-2015, 02:40 PM
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Actually the famous press conference dates back to 2002, when Josephine Charlotte was still alive.
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  #145  
Old 04-26-2015, 05:51 AM
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Actually the famous press conference dates back to 2002, when Josephine Charlotte was still alive.
She was already ill by that time, that makes it even worse!
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  #146  
Old 04-26-2015, 06:25 AM
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It is only natural that members of the famille grand-ducal have a pied-à-terre in Paris. I would love to have an appartment as well in Paris. Having nice weekends there, to load up the battery. Of course we can fill it in as a "love nest" for María Teresa but I think it is just a second home in use for members of the famille grand-ducal when in Paris.
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  #147  
Old 04-26-2015, 01:23 PM
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I agree, and I don't believe it's any sort of "love nest" either. It's perhaps just a place where MT can get out of the Grand Duchy when she feels a need. The late Princess Grace also spent much time in Paris at the family pied-a-terre.

Both Monaco and Luxembourg sound like they can be claustrophobic.
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  #148  
Old 04-26-2015, 01:33 PM
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I agree, and I don't believe it's any sort of "love nest" either. It's perhaps just a place where MT can get out of the Grand Duchy when she feels a need. The late Princess Grace also spent much time in Paris at the family pied-a-terre.

Both Monaco and Luxembourg sound like they can be claustrophobic.
The monegasque princely family still has a château with a domain (larger than the principality...) in Picardie, against the Belgian Border (Château de Marchais). That is just 150 km from Paris. Luxembourg-Paris is around 375-400 km depending on the route.
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  #149  
Old 04-26-2015, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by episcogal View Post

I thought I read a story about Leopold III telling how JC came to him and happily announced her engagement to Jean. So, there's two sides to that issue. Charlotte and Elizabeth were keen for a match between JC and Jean.


.02

She told herself in "A royal family" about how when she told her father about her engagement he rather terrified asked to whom she was engaged too and also his apparent relief when it was to Jean of Luxenburg... and then after finishing the story she chuckled rather dearly.

Judging from that story it doesn't seem like an arranged marriage to me. Maybe arranged in the sense that both JC and J knew from what circles they where expected to find a spouse like it was for most of their royal contemporaries but other than that nothing forced about it. For instance both JCs mother and two aunts all married for love to three princes with Astrid so full of emotions that she spilled tea on Leopold when he visited her parents for the first time and Margareta so visibly in love with her Axel that her mother said they couldn't be trusted to be left alone in a furnished room.


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  #150  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The monegasque princely family still has a château with a domain (larger than the principality...) in Picardie, against the Belgian Border (Château de Marchais). That is just 150 km from Paris. Luxembourg-Paris is around 375-400 km depending on the route.

Yes, I've known about Marchais for years. During the reign of Rainier III there were documentaries and photo shoots of the Princely family relaxing there. It's a very ancient(17th century?) and stunning castle. But the Grimaldis also kept a large apartment in Paris, in the exclusive 16th arrondissement, with their Arms rather ostentatiously displayed on the balcony. I don't know if they still own it.

Shortly before their wedding Albert and Charlene began renovations at Chateau Marchais.
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  #151  
Old 04-27-2015, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
She told herself in "A royal family" about how when she told her father about her engagement he rather terrified asked to whom she was engaged too and also his apparent relief when it was to Jean of Luxenburg... and then after finishing the story she chuckled rather dearly.

Judging from that story it doesn't seem like an arranged marriage to me. Maybe arranged in the sense that both JC and J knew from what circles they where expected to find a spouse like it was for most of their royal contemporaries but other than that nothing forced about it. For instance both JCs mother and two aunts all married for love to three princes with Astrid so full of emotions that she spilled tea on Leopold when he visited her parents for the first time and Margareta so visibly in love with her Axel that her mother said they couldn't be trusted to be left alone in a furnished room.


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I have ordered the documentary 'Jean', as well as the book from Luxembourg.

In the documentary, it's openly suspected that both, Jean and Josephine-Charlotte had liaisons before marriage and Josephine-Charlotte were pretty desperate about hers. However, no one could say for sure.

I could also imagine that the marriage was arranged (they say it was probably the last politically arranged marriage), but maybe they were for a long time aware of the situation and especially Josephine-Charlotte was able to come to terms with it, after some time.

But without any question, their marriage was full of love and respect. This can be seen. Josephine-Charlotte was very much into filming and Jean was often her main object. What you see in the documentation is pretty clear. They were, after all, a very happy couple.

There is nothing about Maria-Teresa or about their relationship, maybe the book (didn't read it yet) offers some information.

The documentary about Jean is highly recommendable.
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