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  #81  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:15 PM
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Stephanie will be Hereditary Grand Duchess, and eventually Grand Duchess of Luxembourg which of course is the position that MT now holds.

She will marry MT's eldest son...naturally that might cause some underlying tension. But I am not prepared to automatically assume that it will be a difficult relationship as a result. MT is an intelligent woman, she must realize that for the sake of her son's future happiness AND success as a sovereign in his own right when the time comes, she should try to help and support his new wife as much as possible.
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  #82  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:50 PM
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On the subject of royals marrying commoners: it is a good practice, genetically. Too close inbreeding is harmful in many cases (not all). Look at what great looking children GD Henri and GD Maria Teresa had. And now HGD Guillaume is marrying an aristocrat with a very long pedigree (I looked it up and it is mind-boggling in extent, somewhat like Princess Diana's). It is probably excellent that Guillaume and siblings had a "vacation" from inbreeding. I would not be surprised if the acceptance of commoner brides for royalty is in part based on the realization of genetic hazard. Prince Charles marrying Diana was not exactly a "vacation" from inbreeding, as she had a long pedigree. Maria Teresa was a beautiful vacation, as is Catherine Middleton, Mary of Denmark, Mathilde of Belgium (do I have that right, Mathilde) and others to come. Marrying close relatives is not bad if there are no hereditary defects, but if there are?
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  #83  
Old 07-25-2012, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
She will marry MT's eldest son...naturally that might cause some underlying tension. But I am not prepared to automatically assume that it will be a difficult relationship as a result. MT is an intelligent woman, she must realize that for the sake of her son's future happiness AND success as a sovereign in his own right when the time comes, she should try to help and support his new wife as much as possible.
Of course she is; she accepted at once her first grandchild, although he was born out of wedlock, whereas earlier her brother-in-law Jean and his beloved Helene were rejected at the beginning for having a child out of wedlock. Henri was , in fact, the only family member who didn't push them off.
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  #84  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:46 AM
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Grand Duchess MT is the boss of the family and a happy and intelligent woman. She will do her very best that her family remains happy .
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  #85  
Old 07-25-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Of course she is; she accepted at once her first grandchild, although he was born out of wedlock, whereas earlier her brother-in-law Jean and his beloved Helene were rejected at the beginning for having a child out of wedlock. Henri was , in fact, the only family member who didn't push them off.
I think that Prince Jean had support from all of his siblings, not just Henri. For example, his sister Princess Margaretha is godmother to his daughter Marie-Gabrielle. And didn't all of Jean's siblings attend Constantin's christening, along with Prince Philippe of Belgium? His parents never attended any of his children's christenings, standing "on principle."
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  #86  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mariel1 View Post
On the subject of royals marrying commoners: it is a good practice, genetically. Too close inbreeding is harmful in many cases (not all). Look at what great looking children GD Henri and GD Maria Teresa had. And now HGD Guillaume is marrying an aristocrat with a very long pedigree (I looked it up and it is mind-boggling in extent, somewhat like Princess Diana's). It is probably excellent that Guillaume and siblings had a "vacation" from inbreeding. I would not be surprised if the acceptance of commoner brides for royalty is in part based on the realization of genetic hazard. Prince Charles marrying Diana was not exactly a "vacation" from inbreeding, as she had a long pedigree. Maria Teresa was a beautiful vacation, as is Catherine Middleton, Mary of Denmark, Mathilde of Belgium (do I have that right, Mathilde) and others to come. Marrying close relatives is not bad if there are no hereditary defects, but if there are?
I agree with what you say, I just like to add a small caveat. Stephanie's pedigree is not "somewhat like Princess Diana's," Stephanie leaves Diana in the dust! Remember, Diana's family--while impressive---was ennobled in 1603, while Stephanie's dates back to the 13th century if I'm not mistaken. That is to say, she have four centuries of nobility over Diana!!!

If Guillaume was looking for nobility in a match, he could not have done better. What a match!
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  #87  
Old 07-25-2012, 11:17 PM
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HGD Guillaume is indeed making one of the most dazzling marriages in recent Royal history, but I don't think he set out to deliberately find an aristocrat...reading between the lines he met this girl years ago at his cousin's party, and she entered and stayed on his radar. But they went their separate ways and did not enter one another's lives again in a significant fashion until much later.

Apparently the old attraction was only then re-awakened and voila! She obviously had other qualities that drew him, her ancient and very noble pedigree must have been icing on the cake at that point.

As for MT and J-C, I am going to stick by the belief that the old wounds had been mostly healed or at least set aside by the time of J-C's final illness. MT looked genuinely sorrowful at the older woman's funeral.

BTW: Princess Mathilde descends from one of Poland's oldest, most distinguished aristocratic families. In that way, her marriage to Philippe is about as different from Kate's and Mary's as it's possible to be...in other words it was hardly a "vacation" at all.

Mathilde-like Stephanie de Lannoy-was raised in a castle. Almost a princess in all but name.
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  #88  
Old 07-26-2012, 01:47 AM
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I think the "vacation" here describes not from the same gene pool, not from the same family, which exponentially increases the chances of "better" offspring.
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  #89  
Old 09-10-2012, 05:35 PM
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I don't think that royals are sacrosanct. They are in the public eye and must behave with a certain amount of dignity. A lot of them do not (Monaco's royals).
Royal or not Josephine Carlotte was not a good mother-in-law. She made her son's wife feel bad and inspite of the fact that dignity is a must, everyone has a breaking point. I do not blame Maria Teresa. Go you MT.
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  #90  
Old 09-10-2012, 06:24 PM
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First of all, we have to remember that both Josephine-Charlotte and Maria Teresa comes from different generations and has different personalities that can create some frictions.
I think it is hard to gauge what kind of mother-in-law Josephine-Charlotte is because we don't know her. However, just because Maria Teresa chose to spilled to the press her opinion of Josephine-Charlotte doesn't mean I'm going to believe her entirely. I don't entirely blame Josephine-Charlotte for all frictions their relationship nor do I believe Maria Teresa is entirely innocent in that matter since it has been said that MT has a difficult personality and can be hard to get along with.
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  #91  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:47 AM
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I reply to a thread by Drimal from 01/12/2005 any several answers to this thread
First of all, princess JC did not lose both her parents at the age of seven but only her mother Astrid from Sweden, her father survived the car incident with minor injuries
Nevertheless, in those days she might of had an education provided by nanny's rather then her father and/or other family members
The loss of a mother and an aducation with a poor amount of family-tenderness might be a very traumatic experience on itself
It wouldn't stop there either, after WWII her father was forced by the Belgian government to abdicate in favour of his eldest son Baudewijn over so calded 'scandals' involving the King with Nazi Germany etc etc (accusations never really proved)
This, today to us might seem, things out of the past, which they are
Nevertheless, for JC in those days, this might very well of have been yet another traumatic experience
In my opinion, these kind of experiences shapes one in life. Shapes one in a certain kind of way, not always in the nicest
For me JC was a very outspoken lady, it is enough to watch a few TV interviews with her... she was certainly not a lady who was going to mirror herself and others some fairytale stories
As I said, she was without any doubt outspoken and many people do not appreaciate this properly
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  #92  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:21 PM
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I was born in Belgium and lived there for about 30 years, though by participating this thread I also had to refresh my memory
I realise that with my comments I come to defend JC, undeliberately
I wish to stay neutral but there is always a fine line
Still, a part from my first post, in 1935 JC lost her mother in a car accident in Kussnacht, Switzerland
Later JC also had to deal, as a youngster with WWII
In 1941, as a war prisoner the King married Liliane Baels, if I remember she was a kind of nanny for JC, Baudouin and Albert
During the war the Belgian RF decided to stay in the country (and not to escape) they therefore also had to face the reality when after 2 days of war Belgium was invaded by the Germans
From June '44 to March '45 the whole family was kept as war prisoners first in Germany later in Austria
Later on, LeopoldIII had 3 other children with princess Liliane (2 daughters and 1 son)
So, the more I think about it, I do not believe that JC and both her brothers had an easy start in life
As I wrote in my first post on the subject, we forget bits of the past, but should take in consideration that life in those days was certainly complicated and certainly made some people stronger, therefore maybe more distant... not always so down-to-earth like
I remember that for many many years rumours went on that the mixed RF was not all that happy (including LIII) and we could therefore assume that the life of JC was at least complicated
I think we should have some respect and patience for her in that sense
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  #93  
Old 01-01-2013, 12:49 AM
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Duchess Josephine-Charlotte and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa-As Mothers

It is a natural thing for a mother whether Royal,Non-Royal, Race and Religion to have a say who her children should marry. In her thoughts she has carved out the character, family prestiege, wealth and selfish reasons. who her children should marry. A Hindu mother does not want her children to marry a Muslim even though they look alike, it is all about religion, A Jewish mother prefer her children to marry someone of the same Faith. A white mother does not want her son to marry a black woman and vice versa. Queen Victoria did not want her German grandson the future Kaiser of Germany to marry Princess Viktoria because she was of a lower Rank of Royalty. Moses mother did not him to marry his wife because she was milato. Samson's mother did not want him to marry his wife because she was of a differenet tribe. I did not want my daughter to marry her husband. A mother has her own reasons. Both Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa are Noble Women. They did their job as Consort excellently. Life goes on. Mothers are not perfect. No one knows what Maria Teresa thought of her first daughter-in-law when she became pregnant out of wedlock.
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  #94  
Old 01-01-2013, 03:28 AM
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We'll never really have the exact info on MT & JC's relationship. Hopefully, MT's relationships with her daughters in law will be better than what she had with JC. She seems to be the type of woman who is accepting and want nothing but the best for her family.
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  #95  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:02 PM
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I tend to beleive that Grand Duchess Josephine was oppose to Marie-Teresa at the begining but after her marriage to Henri, she had seen Maria-T. in a different perspective. As a mother she wanted the best for her son and fortunately Henry chose the best which is Maria Terisa. She was scandal free intellegent, has fine values and inner strength and I daresay that she is endowed with qualities which Henry lacked and lean on MT for her fine judgement. MT did an excellent job raising their children. The people of Luxemberg like and respect her she has been an asset to her adopted country. In the end Josephine-Charlotte won; her son Henry chose someone who loved and was devoted to him and his country.

"Happiness is an elusive thing; few humans seems to grasp it". Experience of the last World War and losing her mother when she was so young had taught Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte a lesson of the "hard knocks of life" . I do not beleive that she would have rejected- Marie Teresa and Henry wedded Bless until she died. Josephine-C had realized that it was a happy union if her son was happy she would be happy for him.

Someone else had spread those ugly rumours.
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  #96  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:36 PM
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Sometime in the early years of 2000+, I had seen pictures of Maria-Teresa in shorts with a tennis racket. She had blownup, her son Guillaume was overweight. I can see Josephine-C finding fault of their weight and if she was alive she would have also found fault of her grand daughter's Alexandra's weight also.

Josephine, Prince Jean and all of her children did not have a weight problem.
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  #97  
Old 01-05-2013, 05:56 AM
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There are so many rumors going around. Originally, when Maria Teresa was engaged to Henri, it was said that it took her and Henri four years to convince then Grand Duke Jean to accept the marriage--the Grand Duke wanted a royal bride for his son. It was only after Henri announced that he would relinquish his rights to the throne rather than give up M-T that his father reluctantly agreed to the marriage. At the time, it was said that Josephine Charlotte became M-T's ally and helped convince her husband, Jean, to allow the marriage. So, its odd that years later, we hear that J-C never liked or approved of M-T and that she was trying to create a wedge in her son's marriage. The thing is that if you look at the wedding pictures, J-C looks genuinely happy. The person who looks absolutely despondent is Henri's grandmother, the late Grand Duchess Charlotte. In fact, I heard that she asked not to be photographed, because she was so upset with this marriage. It could be that as the years went by, M-T and J-C simply grew apart. These things happen. Sometimes people start rubbing each other the wrong way. I did hear that initially, M-T and J-C did have some minor problems because J-C did not like the way that M-T was so down-to-earth with the subjects. If you remember, there is a picture of M-T kneeling down and kissing a child who gives her of bouquet a flowers as she is exiting the church during her wedding. It was this type of behavior that I believe J-C objected to--this unregal familiarity with the masses. I guess that we'll never know the full story. By the way, if you look at M-T in earlier pictures, she is thin. It is shortly after Sebastien's birth that she started gaining considerable weight. One rumor that I have heard is that it is at this time that Henri developed a roving eye and that he started having an affair with some woman in Luxembourg's government. According to the rumor, this is why M-T started gaining weight. Now the question is, is this a fact, or is this the rumor that J-C allegedly began?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:52 AM
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It was Maria Teresa herself who claimed that the rumours of an affair between GD Henri and Lydia Polfert were started by her mother-in-law. Of course the late Grand Duchess never defended herself in public against these alligations.
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  #99  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:31 PM
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Sometime in the early years of 2000+, I had seen pictures of Maria-Teresa in shorts with a tennis racket. She had blownup, her son Guillaume was overweight. I can see Josephine-C finding fault of their weight and if she was alive she would have also found fault of her grand daughter's Alexandra's weight also.

Josephine, Prince Jean and all of her children did not have a weight problem.
That is arguably one of the most absurd thing I have read here. The idea JC is so shallow and spiteful that she would chide people who have problem with their weight especially to people within her own family. There were frictions between MT and JC; I doubt weight problems were it. As for Alexandra and Guillaume's weight problems, I doubt she'll make a big fuss as do some people on royal boards since from all accounts I have read she loved and was very devoted to her grandchildren.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:18 PM
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Weight gain after a last child, like Sebastien, sometimes occurs if the mother is sterilized at the time of the birth (i.e. given a hysterectomy; this would be more likely if the ovaries also were removed due to them being compromised, i.e. cystic). Sometimes Catholic women are given hysterectomies for real physical imperfections (i.e. cystic ovaries, etc.) with the blessing of the Church. In the US army at one time it was called "Catholic birth control." This is just speculation.
But my step daughter got very fat after the birth of her fourth and last child as she neared the age of forty. And she didn't have a hysterectomy (as far as I know--maybe she did and did not tell us. She was not Catholic, but she dreaded deeply the taking of birth control pills because they would have an effect on her health).

Oh well, just speculation. Some people have genes which make them heavier. But skinny genes are not always the healthiest--there are plenty of imperfections to go around.

There are some nice skinny genes in the Luxembourg line--J-C always was nice and slender, and her daughter the Archduchess could wear her mother's suit at the recent wedding--but that isn't everything!
When I could not eat because I was sick I swore I would never complain again if I gained weight--and I haven't!
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