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  #21  
Old 01-12-2005, 11:10 PM
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I don´t know......remember theses so called problems that Josephine had with MT?? It´s hard.....But, what he chooses will be great for him...but, he´s in a lot a pain these days...It´s best to not leave him alone...
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2005, 11:21 PM
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This is not really relevant, but did JC pass away at her home with her family or alone in a hospital? :(
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2005, 01:29 AM
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MT and J-C

This (partial) Cubano is partial to MT, but Josephine-Charlotte had more than a few redeeming virtues. Maria Teresa may be able to live a bit easier now, but it is still a loss when a good person dies.

As for the Fulgencio Batista connection, remember how the Simon Wiesenthal protagonist (if my memory serves me correctly) in Boys from Brazil did not do anything against a child that was genetically Adolf Hitler. The child in Pennsylvania was not Adolf Hitler, even though the DNA was identical. Fugencio Batista was Fulgencio Batista while Maria Teresa Mestre y Batista is Maria Teresa Mestre y Batista, another person to be evaluated separately.
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2005, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillary_nugent
This is not really relevant, but did JC pass away at her home with her family or alone in a hospital? :(
She died at 5.55 am (GMT) of the 10th January 2005 on Fischbach Castle. Thus I assume that the family was around her as she died. According to witnesses the light in front of Fischbach Castle was on the whole night.

The last official pictures existing from her were done after the birth of Sibilla Weiler and Prince Guillaume's fourth child Jean (born on 13th July 2004) in July!
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2005, 03:31 AM
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I'm glad her family was there when she passed away...at least she wasn't all alone ^__^
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2005, 05:02 AM
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i don't understand what gogm was trying to say...can some one clarify what he meant? is there two MT's??? O__O
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2005, 05:46 AM
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poor, poor, grand duke jean. that pic of him in front of j-c's coffin was really heart wrenching. and mt probably is sad too, as evidenced by the handkerchief. i really feel sorry for her family, most of all.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2005, 06:10 AM
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I think gogm is saying, MT should have been judged on her own individual merits, not on her ancestry. This relates to J-C's (alleged) objection to MT's (alleged) family links with former Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista. (gogm I hope that's what you meant)
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2005, 09:47 AM
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Just because her last name was Batista??? Humm....I think that´s more to see...it´s weird... Well...when you lose somebody so important....DC Jean maybe is also alliviated...at least, she´s not soffering anymore...and, he must be in a lot of pain...
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2005, 03:08 PM
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I thought that her brother, King ALbert of the Belgians, was just present... That is sweet that he was. Gosh it must be really hard losing a sibling, a person you grew up with and shared the same parent with :(
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  #31  
Old 01-14-2005, 07:14 PM
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Oh, ok. I was getting a little confused. So back on MT and JC, do you think that MT now feels really bad about it?
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  #32  
Old 01-15-2005, 07:30 AM
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apparently so. mt was holding a handkerchief and was visibly upset at the visitation on tues, so there could be some sadness there b/c mt seems to be a pretty sensitive person.
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2005, 01:55 PM
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Looking at the whole discussion, I wouldn´t say either, that Josephine Charlotte was a bad person! She surely had her faults...pretty "human" faults, if you ask me. Conflicts between mother-in-laws and daughter-in-laws are pretty normal! A mother wants only the best for her son...and in the case of JC the "best" was defined through her education. Then maybe in the long run, MT made it pretty easy for JC to treat her with no respect. It´s IMO also pretty human, that you take advantage of a situation of power (MT tried probably all to please her mother-in-law). So maybe the little revenge of MT in 2002 (to talk to the press) was finally a connecting factor/point for those 2 women. And JC has seen, that she can´t do all with her daughter-in-law, what she wants.
Of course I can´t say, if I´m right, I can only hope, they have made peace, before JC passed away. And I would say, we shouldn´t take this conflict as only factor to judge JC´s life. Since we aren´t part of the grand ducal family (but live in own families with own problems) , it´s not up to us to judge their family life, we should rather focus on the things JC has done for Luxembourg and the world.
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Old 01-15-2005, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Looking at the whole discussion, I wouldn´t say either, that Josephine Charlotte was a bad person! She surely had her faults...pretty "human" faults, if you ask me. Conflicts between mother-in-laws and daughter-in-laws are pretty normal! A mother wants only the best for her son...and in the case of JC the "best" was defined through her education. Then maybe in the long run, MT made it pretty easy for JC to treat her with no respect. It´s IMO also pretty human, that you take advantage of a situation of power (MT tried probably all to please her mother-in-law). So maybe the little revenge of MT in 2002 (to talk to the press) was finally a connecting factor/point for those 2 women. And JC has seen, that she can´t do all with her daughter-in-law, what she wants.
Of course I can´t say, if I´m right, I can only hope, they have made peace, before JC passed away. And I would say, we shouldn´t take this conflict as only factor to judge JC´s life. Since we aren´t part of the grand ducal family (but live in own families with own problems) , it´s not up to us to judge their family life, we should rather focus on the things JC has done for Luxembourg and the world.
"Then maybe in the long run, MT made it pretty easy for JC to treat her with no respect. It´s IMO also pretty human, that you take advantage of a situation of power (MT tried probably all to please her mother-in-law)."

Lena, this is probably meant to sound as a moral lesson to us all but you do not always make sense to me.

re the mink coat of MT (I do not like mink coats, makes women look like giant squirrels) at the funeral, strange that considering how her mother in law might have thought her not good enough she chose to wear a status symbol at the funeral, something modest woudl be more sympathetic. it is not that cold in Luxemburg.
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  #35  
Old 01-15-2005, 02:28 PM
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Dear Susanstotz, this was actually not meant as moral lesson, but was just my point of view. I just tried to judge this situation by making different points, and by offering different views. All posters tell here their views of situations-in a friendly and respectful way. And yes, this is now a moral lesson (to you)
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2005, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susanstotz
re the mink coat of MT (I do not like mink coats, makes women look like giant squirrels) at the funeral, strange that considering how her mother in law might have thought her not good enough she chose to wear a status symbol at the funeral, something modest woudl be more sympathetic. it is not that cold in Luxemburg.
I don't know what the temperature was exactly but it seemed to have been at least a chill in the air. I saw a few pictures of Queen Sofia exiting the church and she was clutching her jacket closer to her. And mink isn't just about keeping warm either; Maria Teresa's jacket could've been very light weight or even fake fur -- diminishing the point of it being a social status at all.

I don't think that Maria Teresa intended the mink coat to be a jab at her mother in law or something to make a point of any sort to anyone. Lots of women, those who were born royal and those who have married into royal households were wearing fur to some extent. Queen Beatrix wore a fur hat and her cloak was trimmed with fur.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2005, 06:59 PM
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I still dont believe that the two had problems... it could just be a big ruhmour that spread over the years... mabye they weren't close at the start, then grew on each other...
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2005, 07:08 PM
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It's just the 'in-law' myth you know the one how the mother-in-law is suppose to be horrid ^___^
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2005, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexandria
I don't know what the temperature was exactly but it seemed to have been at least a chill in the air.
Snow has already fallen, so it is pretty cold there.
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2005, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susanstotz
re the mink coat of MT (I do not like mink coats, makes women look like giant squirrels) at the funeral, strange that considering how her mother in law might have thought her not good enough she chose to wear a status symbol at the funeral, something modest woudl be more sympathetic. it is not that cold in Luxemburg.
maybe the coat MT wore was the only coat she had then that was black and not to flashy...everyone was wearing coats so maybe it was a bit chilly...i don't think MT wore the coat to spite JC or anything of that sort...
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