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  #821  
Old 09-11-2015, 03:14 PM
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Nothing will happen when King Albert II is alive.
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  #822  
Old 09-11-2015, 05:38 PM
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Besides the official recognition that he is in fact her father, what does Delphine get out of this and what does Albert lose?

I totally get that she wants and IMO deserves to her know who her biological father is....personally I think its too late for them to have a truly meaningful relationship...too much muck has been thrown about....but it might bring a little closure to Delphine.

What is Belgian law regarding an inheritance? I believe the French allow you to leave property & money to others in your will, is that the case in Belgium? If she is proven to be legally his daughter, is she automatically included in the will?

And if she is not, why doesn't Albert just acknowledge her? We know he had the affair, we know there is a possibility that she is his daughter...why drag the whole thing out?
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  #823  
Old 09-11-2015, 06:02 PM
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Very good questions Zonk.
If you do recognize it as his daughter will have right to inheritance?
I believe, however, that the Delphine outside the financial and is perhaps moral justification for it anymore. To force the King to admit that it is his daughter. Although I have the feeling (do not know why) that if it was Paola King would have done.
  #824  
Old 09-12-2015, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Besides the official recognition that he is in fact her father, what does Delphine get out of this and what does Albert lose?

I totally get that she wants and IMO deserves to her know who her biological father is....personally I think its too late for them to have a truly meaningful relationship...too much muck has been thrown about....but it might bring a little closure to Delphine.

What is Belgian law regarding an inheritance? I believe the French allow you to leave property & money to others in your will, is that the case in Belgium? If she is proven to be legally his daughter, is she automatically included in the will?

And if she is not, why doesn't Albert just acknowledge her? We know he had the affair, we know there is a possibility that she is his daughter...why drag the whole thing out?
I agree with your post. It is beyond shameful for a father to not either recognize an offspring or submit to DNA testing to prove either/or of parentage. King Albert's behaviour is incomprehensible to me. It is a basic right of any child to know who their parents are. Royals do not get a pass.
  #825  
Old 09-18-2015, 06:33 AM
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According to the Walloon public television (RTBF), Deljim, the foundation that sells Boel's artworks, is virtually bankrupt. Deljim was founded in 2004 and the last years has losses of 10.000s euros.

Delphine BoŽl in rode cijfers met haar kunstwerken - HLN.be
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  #826  
Old 09-18-2015, 07:41 AM
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Dear Marengo,
Would you like one of her aggressive paintings in your home ?

The best is to move back to London with mother , husband and children and remain quiet.
  #827  
Old 09-18-2015, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
I agree with your post. It is beyond shameful for a father to not either recognize an offspring or submit to DNA testing to prove either/or of parentage. King Albert's behaviour is incomprehensible to me. It is a basic right of any child to know who their parents are. Royals do not get a pass.
You are forgetting a couple of things.

As long as King Albert II was King, it was not possible to enforce him into a lawsuit as the king is inviolable. Instead of King Albert II, Dephine demanded DNA-profiles from Prince Philippe and Princess Astrid but she herself withdrew that demand in Semptember 2013.

Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl is her juridical father. She has carried his name for 47 years, was in all possible meanings his daughter and he has supporterd her with lots of money (the family BoŽl is one of the richest of the country). If there is "a strong family life" the 47 years of legal fatherhood can not be contested.

There is jurisprudence that fatherhood can be contested within a year of discovering the truth. Then is the legal question: when did Delphine discover the truth? Has she known it for years but accepted that her father was Jacques BoŽl? Then she can not fight his fatherhood (Belgian law makes no difference in natural and legal fatherhood. The father is the one who is the father according Law).

In the meantime Jacques BoŽl, totally fed up with his estranged daughter, has disinherited her from his mega-fortune. But also here are complications. For Law he simply is her father. Belgian Law does not allow parents to disinherit their own children...

In short the problem for Delphine is that she and her mother Sibylle Baroness de Sťlys-Longchamps claim to have known all their life that Albert II is the legal father. The mother never started a procedure to have him as her daughter's legal father. When Delphine became an adult, she herself also never started a procedure to have Albert II as her legal father. Only now, way past her forties, she wants recognition, etc. Until that time she was a BoŽl, with her legal father having parenting rights and obligations, and she never contested it. That is the underlying problem here.
  #828  
Old 09-18-2015, 09:37 AM
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Although your legal points are perfectly valid, Grevinnan's argument, if I understood them correctly, is that voluntarily recognizing her (presumed) illegitimate daughter would be the morally right thing for King Albert to do, irrespective of any lawsuits or court proceedings. That fact that he didn't do that shows weakness of character on his part then.

On the legal issue per se, doesn't the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) take precedence over Belgian domestic law ? Could Delphine take her case to the European Court based on her right under the ECHR to know who her biological father is ?
  #829  
Old 09-18-2015, 09:54 AM
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No, it is very difficult because EU-states are only allowed to enforce someone to a DNA test when there is a serious crime or misdemeanour.


In most EU countries, also Belgium, it is ruled that if the mother is married to another man when she gave birth to the child or that man acknowledged his paternity and there exists a family like relationship between that man and the child, then the child’s biological father cannot challenge that man’s paternity.


In Belgium the child can challenge her father's paternity when she becomes and adult or within a year after the discovery of someone else's possible paternity. So here is a major obstacle for Delphine, who herself claimed that she and her mother "knew all their life long".
  #830  
Old 09-18-2015, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Although your legal points are perfectly valid, Grevinnan's argument, if I understood them correctly, is that voluntarily recognizing her (presumed) illegitimate daughter would be the morally right thing for King Albert to do, irrespective of any lawsuits or court proceedings. That fact that he didn't do that shows weakness of character on his part then.

On the legal issue per se, doesn't the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) take precedence over Belgian domestic law ? Could Delphine take her case to the European Court based on her right under the ECHR to know who her biological father is ?
Yes, you got it. Irregardless of laws and rights under courts of law, for any parent to deny an offspring the right to know whether they are the biological parent is simply shameful. It shows a lack of character and integrity that is frightening.
  #831  
Old 09-18-2015, 01:07 PM
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I agree grevinnan. That has struck me all along...how could you do that?


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  #832  
Old 09-18-2015, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Yes, you got it. Irregardless of laws and rights under courts of law, for any parent to deny an offspring the right to know whether they are the biological parent is simply shameful. It shows a lack of character and integrity that is frightening.

Well said. And lately I for one have been in the mood for holding people accountable for their actions.
  #833  
Old 09-18-2015, 10:21 PM
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Yes, you got it. Irregardless of laws and rights under courts of law, for any parent to deny an offspring the right to know whether they are the biological parent is simply shameful. It shows a lack of character and integrity that is frightenYing.
Perfectly stated, Grevinnan.
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  #834  
Old 09-19-2015, 02:01 AM
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I remember reading somewhere that at the time of their reconciliation in the late 70's early 80's, Paola extracted a promise from her husband that he would break all ties with his other family. I assume that also included no public acknowledgment that he had fathered a child with another woman.

Could it be that Albert is sticking to his indefensible guns to honor his promise to his wife? If so, it would explain his irrational(imo) decision to continue to deny what everyone in Belgium seems to know is the truth.

But with the state of Paola's health being what it is now, he is unlikely to change his mind anytime soon.
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  #835  
Old 09-20-2015, 05:15 AM
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I feel sorry for Delphine, Albert should do the right thing and its does just look ridiculous that everyone else basically knows she's Alberts daughter but that he is the only one who doesn't recognise this.

That being said I don't understand why she continues to pursue the issue, Albert won't recognise her unless he is made by law and wants nothing to do with her so why bother. I get that its important to her and the right thing but if Albert won't recognise her why does a piece of paper saying he is your father matter so much. SO sad that she has ruined the relationship with the one man who acted like a father to her
  #836  
Old 09-20-2015, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I remember reading somewhere that at the time of their reconciliation in the late 70's early 80's, Paola extracted a promise from her husband that he would break all ties with his other family. I assume that also included no public acknowledgment that he had fathered a child with another woman.

Could it be that Albert is sticking to his indefensible guns to honor his promise to his wife? If so, it would explain his irrational(imo) decision to continue to deny what everyone in Belgium seems to know is the truth.

But with the state of Paola's health being what it is now, he is unlikely to change his mind anytime soon.
In February it became clear that King Albert and Queen Paola have changed their marriage contract. They were married under prenuptial agreements but have now dropped these, making it a conventional marriage without conditions. Via this construction King Albert made sure that his spouse Queen Paola keeps the usufruct of their whole shared estate (and it is in the meantime a prevention against possible fighting heirs evicting mommie-dearest out of the house).

State Gazette of February 2nd 2015:

By Act of James Dupont, Notary - residing in Brussels, and dated the 16th of July 2014, His Majesty King Albert II Fťlix Humbert Thťodore Christian EugŤne Marie, Prince of Belgium, born in Brussels the 6th of June 1934 and Her Majesty Queen Paola Margherita Maria Antonia Consiglia, Princess of Belgium, Princess Ruffo di Calabria, born in Forte dei Marmi (Italy) the 11th of September 1937, have changed their premarital agreements as established by Act of Thťodore Taymann, Notary - then having residence in Brussels, and dated the 12th of June 1959.

James Dupont, Notary.
  #837  
Old 09-20-2015, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In February it became clear that King Albert and Queen Paola have changed their marriage contract. They were married under prenuptial agreements but have now dropped these, making it a conventional marriage without conditions. Via this construction King Albert made sure that his spouse Queen Paola keeps the usufruct of their whole shared estate (and it is in the meantime a prevention against possible fighting heirs evicting mommie-dearest out of the house).
Unlike Princess Beatrix or Queen Elizabeth II, King Albert actually doesn't have a substantial estate of his own anyway. Queen Paola lives at BťlvŤdere Castle, which is part of the Royal Trust (Donation Royale) and, hence, owned by the Belgian State. I can't imagine her being evicted from her home unless King Philippe or the Belgian government make that decision.
  #838  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:02 AM
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Unlike Princess Beatrix or Queen Elizabeth II, King Albert actually doesn't have a substantial estate of his own anyway. Queen Paola lives at BťlvŤdere Castle, which is part of the Royal Trust (Donation Royale) and, hence, owned by the Belgian State. I can't imagine her being evicted from her home unless King Philippe or the Belgian government make that decision.
The King has a private wealth and private properties. He owns the appartments 0701 and 0801 and the garages 65, 68 and 69 in the Icon-gebouw (picture) in Oostende, Belgium. The King owns Villa les Romarins and the two neighbouring properties in Ch‚teauneuf-de-Grasse (France), see picture (the three buildings at the bottom and the lands around). The King owns an expensive yacht (see picture). The Queen has purchased an old vicarage in Villers-sur-Lesse (Belgian Ardennes) which is now under renovation (see picture). The royal couple also own properties in Paola's homeland Italy. So he is not exactly a pauper...

  #839  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:25 AM
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I guess though compared to Elizabeth or Beatrix that is living like a pauper when you compare the stocks, shares and properties they own.
  #840  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:55 AM
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I think that we really don't know the extent of the Belgian fortune, I think they must have more than we see.
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