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  #801  
Old 10-04-2014, 05:35 AM
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The chance is there that Delphine will be left with nothing. The Civic Code stipulates that latest in the year of knowledge that the legal father is not the natural father, a procedure before the Court of Justice has to start. After that period one can not initate a court case.

Delphine knows for sure that her legal father, Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl, is not her natural father. She knows that for sure thanks to a DNA test in 2013. Delphine however claims to know for more than 30 years that Albert is her natural father. According the Civic Code, Delphine had to start a procedure within a year after her discovering that possibly Albert is her natural father. So when the Court of Justice would exactly follow this, Delphine's case will be closed.

Because of the special nature of this case, maybe the Court of Justice can continue but then it needs DNA. Because there are no crimes in this case, the Court of Justice can not order Albert, Astrid or Laurent to deliver DNA. Then there is the European Convention on Human Rights, which recognizes the right of children to know who their biological parents are. This right is hower not yet translated into jurisprudence and juridical arrangements in Belgian legislation. However, such a natural recognition still does not make Delphine a legal child and heir, as she is the legal child and heir of Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Because of the special nature of this case, maybe the Court of Justice can continue but then it needs DNA. Because there are no crimes in this case, the Court of Justice can not order Albert, Astrid or Laurent to deliver DNA. Then there is the European Convention on Human Rights, which recognizes the right of children to know who their biological parents are. This right is hower not yet translated into jurisprudence and juridical arrangements in Belgian legislation. However, such a natural recognition still does not make Delphine a legal child and heir, as she is the legal child and heir of Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl.
So we have the possibility of a test case in Belgium which will establish a precedent.
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  #803  
Old 10-04-2014, 06:51 AM
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So we have the possibility of a test case in Belgium which will establish a precedent.
Maybe, but of course the cousellors of King Albert are not sleeping and will fight it and go in appeal, and in appeal and in appeal again when there is the slightest doubt that the tribunal of first instance has not exactly applied the articles of the Civic Code in this case. When the judges in this case do not apply the law corrrectly, the Cour d'Appel will act as a tribunal of second instance. In the end the parties still can go to the Cour de Cassation, which then acts as a tribunal of third instance. It can become a nasty fight. Some commentators in media have pointed out that Delphine has narrowed the room for manoeuvres for the King by her public actions. Delphine has not left room for mutual agreements behind closed doors. This, added to the legendaric stubborness of the Von Sachsen-Coburgs, would have lead to the firm stance of the royal family: all hoofs deep in the sand and resist. No one knows exactly what is going on. We can -of course- not rule out that Albert is NOT the father of Delphine. We all assume he is, but for so far -legally- he is nothing to Delphine.
  #804  
Old 10-04-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The chance is there that Delphine will be left with nothing. The Civic Code stipulates that latest in the year of knowledge that the legal father is not the natural father, a procedure before the Court of Justice has to start. After that period one can not initate a court case.

Delphine knows for sure that her legal father, Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl, is not her natural father. She knows that for sure thanks to a DNA test in 2013. Delphine however claims to know for more than 30 years that Albert is her natural father. According the Civic Code, Delphine had to start a procedure within a year after her discovering that possibly Albert is her natural father. So when the Court of Justice would exactly follow this, Delphine's case will be closed.

Because of the special nature of this case, maybe the Court of Justice can continue but then it needs DNA. Because there are no crimes in this case, the Court of Justice can not order Albert, Astrid or Laurent to deliver DNA. Then there is the European Convention on Human Rights, which recognizes the right of children to know who their biological parents are. This right is hower not yet translated into jurisprudence and juridical arrangements in Belgian legislation. However, such a natural recognition still does not make Delphine a legal child and heir, as she is the legal child and heir of Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl.
Great explanation of the case !!! Bravo !
  #805  
Old 10-04-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Maybe, but of course the cousellors of King Albert are not sleeping and will fight it and go in appeal, and in appeal and in appeal again when there is the slightest doubt that the tribunal of first instance has not exactly applied the articles of the Civic Code in this case. When the judges in this case do not apply the law corrrectly, the Cour d'Appel will act as a tribunal of second instance. In the end the parties still can go to the Cour de Cassation, which then acts as a tribunal of third instance. It can become a nasty fight. Some commentators in media have pointed out that Delphine has narrowed the room for manoeuvres for the King by her public actions. Delphine has not left room for mutual agreements behind closed doors. This, added to the legendaric stubborness of the Von Sachsen-Coburgs, would have lead to the firm stance of the royal family: all hoofs deep in the sand and resist. No one knows exactly what is going on. We can -of course- not rule out that Albert is NOT the father of Delphine. We all assume he is, but for so far -legally- he is nothing to Delphine.
So the bullies with the deep pockets are likely to win. Again.
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  #806  
Old 10-04-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
So the bullies with the deep pockets are likely to win. Again.
I am not sure it will be a too expensive juridical procedure. It is not about a crime, it is not about a misdemeanour, it is not about a wrongful act. It is "just" a legal case concerning a claim of alleged paternity and will handle very much about the precize interpretation of the articles in the Civic Code.



Last year the lawyer of King Albert, Master Alain Berenboom was interviewed by Het Nieuwsblad. He placed question marks behind the reasons for Delphine BoŽl to start a procedure. One of the motivations seems to be 'discrimination' because of her alleged band with the King. Master Beerenboom: "The Royal Palace has never discriminated Madame BoŽl or urged other parties to discriminate against her. On the contrary: when Madame BoŽl complained that she was experiencing obstruction, that certain people or companies did not want to cooperate with her, we have contacted her lawyer and agreed that Madame BoŽl could, at all times, contact our office".

Master Berenboom remembered one case which happened in the last months: "It was about a company which refused to cooperate with Madame BoŽl in the framework of an artistic project and seemed to have as a reason 'the delicate relationship with the Palace'. I immediately contacted that company and made sure that there was no any problem regarding the Royal Palace when they would do business with Madame BoŽl."

Despite the intervention, the company refused to continue with Delphine. Master Berenboom: "That was a great pity indeed for Madame BoŽl. But we can not help it that companies or people are Ítre plus royaliste que le roi (are more royalist than the King) and name the Royal Palace as a fallacy for not doing business."

The lawyer did not want to speculate about the procedure and the chances of Delphine on success: "We will defend us before the tribunal with legal arguments which are, in our opinion, valid arguments. The King and the princes are, like any other person, subservient to the Civic Code and it will be the duty of the Court of Justice to give an ordeal about it."

  #807  
Old 10-04-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
What would legal recognition get her though?

She claims she does not want a relationship
She claims she does not want money
She claims she does not want a title

So what is it that is driving her to this demand for court enforced recognition?
Of course I don't know for sure, but it could just be the satisfaction of knowing that the former King Albert is indeed her biological father. As someone who hasn't been in contact with their own father since their toddler years, I can completely understand why Delphine would want to speak up about her situation. I also agree with SElizabeth - in most cases one wants to know more about their heritage and background if there is a gap there. Delphine is already rather well known within Belgium and perhaps elsewhere (in one of the English newspapers, there was a small article about her recently), so I doubt she is after the fame.

Personally, I believe that Delphine is Albert's biological daughter as it just seems so for me. Also, given the fact that Laurent writes to her from time to time would mean that she definitely has a connection to Albert IMO.

I apologise for asking, I haven't been reading all the posts here so am unaware of certain happenings - but do we know when we will find out whether Albert is her biological father or not? I had read October 2 but so far haven't seen anything new.
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  #808  
Old 10-04-2014, 01:30 PM
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Thursday October 2nd lately was an extra -and the last- day of the hearings before the trbunal. With this the hearings have been completed. Now the tribunal will read the case and probably come to a verdict somewhere in December. It seems that her mother, the Baroness Sybille de Selys Longchamps, has handed a petition to the tribunal "to mediate between both parties" (???). Delphine was attending the hearings but had no active role, as it is purely a procedure between the lawyers.

Delphine's case will stand or fall with the exact execution of the procedure. According the Belgian Civic Code an adult son or daughter can only detest the (legal) paternity within a year of discovering that the legal father is not the natural one. The lawyers of King Albert point to that simple rule in the Civic Code. Delphine (46) herself claimed that she know about Albert's paternity since the age of 17. For 29 years she has not undertaken any legal action for recognition of paternity.

The laywers of Delphine have another reading on the matter: their client only knew "the truth" when her father, Jonkeer Jacques BoŽl, cooperated in a DNA test in October 2013.

Delphine however, has to fight the legal paternity of Jonkheer BoŽl before she can request recognition of paternity by her natural father. Until last year the mega-rich Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl refused to join in 'that circus' but apparently seems so fed up with his daughter that he even made sure that she would inherit as little as possible from his formidable wealth. By engaging in a DNA-test, Delphine can try to cut all links with Jonkheer BoŽl (with which the estranged father probably has no any problem at all). Delphine wants King Albert to undergo a DNA-test. As there is no crime, no misdemeanour, no wrongful act, there are -so far- little grounds on which a Court of Justice can enforce cooperation with a test.
  #809  
Old 10-04-2014, 08:55 PM
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Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps, Delphine BoŽl and the Prince of LiŤge sometime in the 1970s.

Photo source: Delphine BoŽl & Albert II: la photo qui change tout - DH.be
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  #810  
Old 10-05-2014, 02:41 AM
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[QUOTE=Duc_et_Pair;1707978]The chance is there that Delphine will be left with nothing.

This part of your comment is so wrong in every way, and what do you mean by *Nothing*?

She still has her life and that is *something*, she isn't asking for his money, titles, or a roof over her head, nor to be in a position to be in line for the throne................she isn't asking for any of those, so what is NOTHING?
She can work, she can support herself, she still has family, and she sure will know her family's medical history for that in it's self is very important as one grows older.........I don't understand all the negative comments about her wanting to know who her father is........if KA was a*real man* and only he knows for sure if he is her father, then he should MAn UP and admit it, he isn't king any more, his reputation is as bad a JC's of Spain, he has nothing to lose, he still gets his money to live on, the palaces to live in, the travel and the respect of all those that come in contact with him(that respect is a very shallow word for someone like him), and he still keeps his ego in tact...........but he won't........which shows his character and the type of man he is...........really an ugly person and if I was her, I would be ashamed if he was my father.............king or not!
  #811  
Old 10-05-2014, 05:01 AM
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I fail to see what was wrong with my post. When I mean that Delphine has the chance to be left 'with nothing', this just means that her demands possibly will not be met by the Court of Justice. That is all. No need to react so overheated, thank you very much.

The only thing we know is that Delphine has laid down a claim against her legal father for 47 years, Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl, to deny his paternity. Consequently Delphine has laid down a claim against former King Albert, to recognize an alleged paternity. Both claims are now under reading by the Court of Justice. That is all we know. No more, no less.

Knowing that Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl is not her natural father still does not end his paternity. Knowing that someone else then must be Delphine's father still does not establish a new paternity. The one is not automatically connected to the other.
  #812  
Old 10-05-2014, 05:31 AM
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But it doesn't mean she's left "with nothing". She has her life and her career. If she loses the litigation at least she'll have the satisfaction of knowing she tried to get that cowardly man to admit he is her father or to provide the evidence that would allow it to be proven. If the system defeats her, so be it. At least she tried.

And as far as I'm concerned, Mr Boel is totally irrelevant to the issue.
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  #813  
Old 10-05-2014, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps, Delphine BoŽl and the Prince of LiŤge sometime in the 1970s.

Photo source: Delphine BoŽl & Albert II: la photo qui change tout - DH.be
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
[....]And as far as I'm concerned, Mr Boel is totally irrelevant to the issue.
In this article connected to this picture Delphine says that she knew Albert was her father when she was 17 years old. "Then between 17 and 32 years old, I said nothing." This is a juridical loophole for her because adults knowing that someone else is a natural parent must request for recognizing withing a limited period (1 year) otherwise the Law takes it for granted that there is no interest in an establishment of legal paternity.

Article 330, ß 1, fourth lemma of the Civic Code:

The claim to fight a recognition as child can be established when the descendance does not correspond with the biological reality, or when the recognition did not meet the requirements unless there was a state of possession concerning the person whom recognized the paternity.

The claim to fight a recognition can be established by:
- the recognizing parent, within the year after discovering that the recognized child is not the natural child;
- the other parent, within the year after discovering that the other parent is not a natural parent;
- the child, at earliest on the day on which the age of 12 years is reached and at last on the day on which the age of 22 years is reached or within a year after discovering that the recognized parent is not the natural parent;
- the woman or the man claiming maternity or paternity within a year after discovering that he or she is a parent of the child.


The laywers of King Albert will probably state that Delphine's claim already must be dismissed on grounds of the third lemma. Then there is another difficult question for Delphine and that is the so-called state of possession which her father Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl has.

What is a state of possession? This is an important article in the Civic Code regarding the paternity. It is read in Article 331 nonies of the Civic Code:

The state of possession must be continuous and shows a factual paternity. The facts are:
- the child has always worn the surname of the parent;
- the parent has always treated the child as his/her own;
- the parent has provided in the upbringing and education;
- the child has treated the parent as his/her father or mother;
- the child has always been recognized by family and society;
- the state and public institutions have recognized the paternity.


As known Delphine has also laid down a claim against Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl, to end the paternity. Not only does she need to answer why she did not end this between 12 and 22 years old or within a year after discovering that her father was not her natural father. She also needs to fight that Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl has a state of possesion to her. That is hard to claim because in everything she has been a BoŽl, her whole life long, so she needs to disown everything what Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl has meant or done to her in her life.
  #814  
Old 10-05-2014, 08:31 AM
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I am a lawyer, though in a common law jurisdiction, not the sort of Napoleonic Civil Law jursidiction in which you and the Belgians reside, so I am able to appreciate your argument on a purely legalistic basis. I just think that the issues at stake here transcend the purely legal.
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  #815  
Old 10-06-2014, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The laywers of King Albert will probably state that Delphine's claim already must be dismissed on grounds of the third lemma. Then there is another difficult question for Delphine and that is the so-called state of possession which her father Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl has.

What is a state of possession? This is an important article in the Civic Code regarding the paternity. It is read in Article 331 nonies of the Civic Code:

The state of possession must be continuous and shows a factual paternity. The facts are:
- the child has always worn the surname of the parent;
- the parent has always treated the child as his/her own;
- the parent has provided in the upbringing and education;
- the child has treated the parent as his/her father or mother;
- the child has always been recognized by family and society;
- the state and public institutions have recognized the paternity.


As known Delphine has also laid down a claim against Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl, to end the paternity. Not only does she need to answer why she did not end this between 12 and 22 years old or within a year after discovering that her father was not her natural father. She also needs to fight that Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl has a state of possesion to her. That is hard to claim because in everything she has been a BoŽl, her whole life long, so she needs to disown everything what Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl has meant or done to her in her life.
Thing is, that if she actively disowns Boel so effectively, I do think that it might end up enabling Boel to effectively legally disown her, leaving her with nothing. This man raised her and as far as we know, loved her as well. So this means that she'll have to essentially, very publicly, tell the world that this man means nothing to her and never did. I do think that since Boel has already drastically diminished the inheritance she is due, I think this would be the biggest mistake of her life. As it is she's already lost so much.
  #816  
Old 10-06-2014, 03:20 AM
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Thing is, that if she actively disowns Boel so effectively, I do think that it might end up enabling Boel to effectively legally disown her, leaving her with nothing. This man raised her and as far as we know, loved her as well. So this means that she'll have to essentially, very publicly, tell the world that this man means nothing to her and never did. I do think that since Boel has already drastically diminished the inheritance she is due, I think this would be the biggest mistake of her life. As it is she's already lost so much.

Have you read anything in this thread?


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  #817  
Old 10-09-2014, 03:56 PM
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Flemish VTM had some fun and made this parody of 'Delphine' singing Stromae's hit 'papaoutai' (daddy where are you).

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Old 11-28-2014, 05:48 PM
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A clip and update about the case in English:

flandersnews.be video: Is King Albert Delphine Bo√ęl‚€™s dad?

Quote:
28/11/14 - Belgium's Constitutional Court will examine Delphine BoŽl's request for King Albert to be identified as her father after a lower court struggled with the case. To prove King Albert is her father Delphine BoŽl first has to show Jacques BoŽl isn't her dad.
A verdict is expected at the beginning of december.
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:47 AM
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Delphine Boell added two renowed lawyers to her team:

'Bastaarddochter' koning Albert slijpt de messen|Prive| Telegraaf.nl

Apparently the court case is complicated. In Belgian law a child has the right to force the father to recognise him/her only before the 22nd birthday of the child. However Delphine only filed such a request when she was 45 y/o.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Delphine Boell added two renowed lawyers to her team:

'Bastaarddochter' koning Albert slijpt de messen|Prive| Telegraaf.nl

Apparently the court case is complicated as due to Belgian law she has a right to force her father to recognise her only when she would have filed for it before her 22nd birthday. However she only did it when she was 45.
Interesting. One of her new lawyers is said to be an "outspoken republican".
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