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  #741  
Old 09-28-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Though, as confirmed by recent DNA testing, Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl is not the biological father of Delphine BoŽl. Thus, he is not her father. Amen.

For Belgian law there is only one father and that is the high- and wellborn Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl. He is her father and he is also the only one from which Delphine will inherit, as the situation is as present. That Jonkheer BoŽl is totally fed up with Delphine and does everything to prevent that she will inherit something from his enormous fortune, that is another story. For Belgian law he is her father, she has his surname.
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  #742  
Old 09-28-2014, 06:08 PM
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Just as many do not have empathy for Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps and Delphine BoŽl in this situation, so do many also not have empathy for "poor" Queen Paola, who wishes to keep intact her pride, dignity and reputation. Very Christian virtues and ones which she must have temporarily forgotten when she too was engaging in extramarital affairs during the difficult period in her union with her husband. There are obviously many sides to this story.
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  #743  
Old 09-28-2014, 06:45 PM
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From Luxemburger Wort:

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"Jacques Boel thought it was time for him too to know the truth," his lawyer Theodora Baum said in an RTBF television report. "Accordingly, he arranged a DNA test which showed that he is not Delphine's father."
Source: Luxemburger Wort - Belgian claiming to be king's daughter passes DNA test hurdle
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  #744  
Old 09-28-2014, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Just as many do not have empathy for Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps and Delphine BoŽl in this situation, so do many also not have empathy for "poor" Queen Paola, who wishes to keep intact her pride, dignity and reputation. Very Christian virtues and ones which she must have temporarily forgotten when she too was engaging in extramarital affairs during the difficult period in her union with her husband. There are obviously many sides to this story.
There are indeed many sides, or points of view, involved and we are all drawn to some more than others. I find myself unable to be very concerned about Paola's pride, dignity and reputation in the circumstances. She was also having affairs so by taking the stand she has she comes across as a hypocrite to me. Her insistence on her husband continuing to deny the product of his affair doesn't enhance her dignity or reputation, in my opinion; it diminishes it. I would have a far higher opinion of her if she allowed her husband to do what I consider to be the honourable thing and accept responsibility for his actions and submit to a DNA test rather than hiding behind his wife's skirts and the legal protections afforded by his royal status.
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  #745  
Old 09-28-2014, 08:35 PM
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[QUOTE=Duc_et_Pair;1706635]Donna Paola dei principi Ruffo di Calabria went, as a young girl, to far away and unknown Belgium to marry the Prince de LiŤge. Her life was not easy, her marriage was not easy and -never destined to be Queen- the role of Queen (which placed her in full spotlights) was hard for her, as she is naturally a shy person. Most likely Queen Paola feels she has brought sacrifices in her life for her royal role and at minimum deserves to have her pride, her dignity and her reputation. Most likely, from her 56 (!) years of turbulent royal life in Belgium, she has a diametrically different viewpoint on the same case as Delphine. Her pride, her dignity and her reputation can also mean that she despises "that woman" (Sybille) and ignores her whole existence. All in the assumption that Albert is indeed the father, let us keep in mind that this is still not proven.[/QUOTE]


Just because she, Paola despises Sybille does not mean you take it our on a child that was born out of wedlock by husband, this child had no choice in the matter of whom her parents are, none of us do, QP had children and in reading about her and Albert I get the impression that neither should of had children for they seem very selfish, even to this day they aren't really grandparents to Phillip's children, thank goodness Phillip has a QM for a wife and mother of his children. And QP had her pride hurt, her dignity and reputation destroyed, well that was done by her husband not the child, take it up with him, he is not man enough to admit his mistakes or errors in life says a lot about him. Do no blame a child for what the parents do, Never blame a child for the actions of a parent, that is something I feel very strong about and have been there and know what I am talking about. This is not about Money, Titles, Place in line for the Throne, it's about a man acknowledging that he is the father of this child/now adult and nothing more. I feel sorry that some here don't get that.....and just don't understand the reasons behind it nor the reasons for want Albert to look like a goody too shoe man when he isn't. Why can't he just come out and be HONEST and put this to rest and be done with it or is it his reputation that he is worried about? To darn late for his reputation now I would say.
  #746  
Old 09-29-2014, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is not that ridiculous. If the rumours are true, then Delphine was never neglected or conveniently forgotten by her assumed natural father. If the rumours are true, the Prince de LiŤge regularly visited her and also did sent her presents for her birthday. So en cercle famille and so to see also en petit comitť (the Household, the incrowd) her existence seems to have been known.

So in everything it seems that -if the Prince de LiŤge was her natural father as is claimed- everyone, but the public knew. Now you say it's mortifying for her to know that her natural father would not publicly claim her as his own. Her alleged natural father in the meantime became King of the Belgians, her alleged natural father is married with a proud Italian Princess and with her he has three children and twelve grandchildren. Most likely Donna Paola has her pride, her dignity and her reputation, in some cultures -like conservative Italian cultures pride, dignity and reputation are all.

The only effect of Delphine, if the alleged father turns out to be her real father, is that of humiliation of the Queen, a kneefall of the King and what is effectively what she wants? What is it then that Albert is her papa? Will it make her life glourious and happy? Will choirs of angels then guide her on her already golden path of life, with gentle blossoms falling down, spreading a divine scent?

Come on, life is not fair. Delphine has had the unluck (some would say luck anyway) possibly to be the daughter of a man in the supreme position of the social pyramid. Too bad that this man was married and too bad that her mother engaged in an affair with a married man. C'est la vie. Despite this less ideal starting point, this lady has had an extremely privileged life with all possible opportunities presented to her on golden plates. So, no, I have not so much empathy with her. She is on crash course and it leads to nothing.

Amen.


So Paola gets to keep her dignity, but another woman (who also had no complicity or fault in this) gets to hide in the shadows?? With the "consolation" that the servants knew? I feel for Paola - I really, truly do - but her life doesn't matter more than her husband's daughter.

Also, the word is "sympathy." You have no sympathy for this woman. Empathy is the act or ability to put oneself in the position of another person to understand their feelings.

Finally, "amen" is usually not used unless affirming what someone else says.
  #747  
Old 09-29-2014, 03:07 AM
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I am amazed every time I come to this thread to see people basically say, 'her former step-father had lots of money, so what's she complaining about?'

This woman wants to know, finally and definitively, who she is. That's really what she's asking for. Had she only wanted money, she would've clung on for dear life to her former father figure who, it appears, has far more money than Albert does.

The lack of understanding towards this woman just stuns me. We see time and time again, adopted children who have wonderful and loving adoptive parents who still feel the need to know who their birth parents are. Delphine seems not to have had much of a relationship at all with her step-father since she was a very young child, so I really don't blame her for wanting the know once and for all who her father really is.

There appears to be something in the complicated human psyche that seems to need to know where we came from. Maybe Delphine's motives aren't entirely pure and maybe she's not going about this in the best way, but she seems to have had little option left but to go down the road she's taken.

Albert's actions in all this have been totally reprehensible. He was man enough to stick his you-know-what where it had no business being so he should be man enough to face up to the consequences.
  #748  
Old 09-29-2014, 03:43 AM
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It seems ethical that Delphine should be able to know her biological history. That fact alone should be reason enough for the process to not have become so public and drawn out.
There is nothing that can force a friendship or a father/daughter relationship if it turns out to be true that Albert is her father.
I think Delphine knows she will never be welcomed into the family but is now annoyed that her search for her identity has been so difficult that she is bitter and willing to fight to the end.
What is the chance of Delphine (if paternity is ruled) sueing successfully for damages - pain and suffering - for how long and arduous the process was?
  #749  
Old 09-29-2014, 03:53 AM
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Delphine is really not that poor little kid left in an orphanage in Lima, Bolivia, adopted by two goodwilling European parents and now dying to know who her father is.

If the stories are true, Delphine KNOWS who her alleged father is, she seems to have proof in the form of letters, photographs, presents. It is not that Delphine is totally unaware of her alleged father's existence. Ah poor moi, look at me, all without a daddy... That lady just should go back to reality, focus on her husband and two children and try to make some nice art. It is wasted energy, it is destructive, it adds nothing.

While Delphine wants proof that her alleged father, King Albert, is her father indeed, at the same time she claims she would not swap "not for a second" with her alleged half-siblings and she does not want "to disturb". At the same time, while all parenthood cases are always handled behind closed doors, Delphine requested the Court of Justice to open the doors and give public and media entrance. This was -of course- dismissed by the Court of Justice, as familial cases (divorces, parenthood cases, etc.) are never public. This makes me feel Delphine says A ("I do not want to disrupt things") but does B: she causes as much collateral damage as possible.

  #750  
Old 09-29-2014, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by King of the Jungle View Post
It seems ethical that Delphine should be able to know her biological history. That fact alone should be reason enough for the process to not have become so public and drawn out.
There is nothing that can force a friendship or a father/daughter relationship if it turns out to be true that Albert is her father.
I think Delphine knows she will never be welcomed into the family but is now annoyed that her search for her identity has been so difficult that she is bitter and willing to fight to the end.
What is the chance of Delphine (if paternity is ruled) sueing successfully for damages - pain and suffering - for how long and arduous the process was?
Under Belgian law no one is forced to cooperate in contributing DNA. The unwillingness of King Albert to cooperate therefore is hardly a ground for a process.

Note that there are more cases where the natural father does not acknowledge his/her child. The Duke of Parma has fathered a child with a friend (a much older lady). When the child -Carlos jr.- was born, the secretariate of (then) Prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme stated that "the choice of having a child was the mother's own and independent decision. There will be no any legal band with the child". A quite cryptic communiquť. The son, Carlos jr., is not acknowledged by the natural father but -like Delphine- grows up in well-to-do circumstances (his mother is a stepdaughter of the Count van Rechteren-Limpurg) and like Delphine with her alleged father, there were contacts -holidays even with the De Bourbon de Parmes and with the Orange-Nassaus.

C'est la vie.
  #751  
Old 09-29-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Note that there are more cases where the natural father does not acknowledge his/her child. The Duke of Parma has fathered a child with a friend (a much older lady). When the child -Carlos jr.- was born, the secretariate of (then) Prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme stated that "the choice of having a child was the mother's own and independent decision. There will be no any legal band with the child". A quite cryptic communiquť. The son, Carlos jr., is not acknowledged by the natural father but -like Delphine- grows up in well-to-do circumstances (his mother is a stepdaughter of the Count van Rechteren-Limpurg) and like Delphine with her alleged father, there were contacts -holidays even with the De Bourbon de Parmes and with the Orange-Nassaus.

C'est la vie.
There's acknowledging, and there's acknowledging. From this description it sounds to me that Prince Carlos has impliedly acknowledged the child. The difference with Albert is that he has not in any way publicly acknowledged the connection.

And I reject Carlos' statement that the choice of having a child was the mother's own and independent decision. Surely as a good Catholic he is not saying she should have had a termination! Once Carlos made the decision to stick his you-know-what* where it had no business being, he was just as responsible for the not unusual consequences of that decision. He's still the father, regardless of any legal bond.

(*Thank you, PetticoatLane.)
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  #752  
Old 09-29-2014, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
I am amazed every time I come to this thread to see people basically say, 'her former step-father had lots of money, so what's she complaining about?'

This woman wants to know, finally and definitively, who she is. That's really what she's asking for. Had she only wanted money, she would've clung on for dear life to her former father figure who, it appears, has far more money than Albert does.

The lack of understanding towards this woman just stuns me. We see time and time again, adopted children who have wonderful and loving adoptive parents who still feel the need to know who their birth parents are. Delphine seems not to have had much of a relationship at all with her step-father since she was a very young child, so I really don't blame her for wanting the know once and for all who her father really is.

There appears to be something in the complicated human psyche that seems to need to know where we came from. Maybe Delphine's motives aren't entirely pure and maybe she's not going about this in the best way, but she seems to have had little option left but to go down the road she's taken.

Albert's actions in all this have been totally reprehensible. He was man enough to stick his you-know-what where it had no business being so he should be man enough to face up to the consequences.


Oh my goodness, you certainly do tell it like it is and your comment is *wonderful and full of the darn truth*, it is just sad that so many think KA must walk on water or something like that........lololololo, after all he is what........just a man and nothing more..........and yes I know there are some very good men in this world and KA sure isn't one of them.
  #753  
Old 09-29-2014, 06:57 AM
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There's acknowledging, and there's acknowledging. From this description it sounds to me that Prince Carlos has impliedly acknowledged the child. The difference with Albert is that he has not in any way publicly acknowledged the connection.

And I reject Carlos' statement that the choice of having a child was the mother's own and independent decision. Surely as a good Catholic he is not saying she should have had a termination! Once Carlos made the decision to stick his you-know-what* where it had no business being, he was just as responsible for the not unusual consequences of that decision. He's still the father, regardless of any legal bond.

(*Thank you, PetticoatLane.)
The cryptic description and the age difference (12 years) between Prince Carlos and his apparently longtime friend (no girlfriend it seemed and the couple never co-habited) led to speculation here and there it might have been IVF with Prince Carlos as donor. We simply do not know. Apparently the mother had no relationship outside the what-was-it with her good friend Prince Carlos and apparently never married someone else. The non-recognition means that there are no legal bands between father and son, that the field "father" on the birth certificate is left empty and that the son bears the surname of the mother. Carlos jr. is now 17 years old.
  #754  
Old 09-29-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The cryptic description and the age difference (12 years) between Prince Carlos and his apparently longtime friend (no girlfriend it seemed and the couple never co-habited) led to speculation here and there it might have been IVF with Prince Carlos as donor. We simply do not know. Apparently the mother had no relationship outside the what-was-it with her good friend Prince Carlos and apparently never married someone else. The non-recognition means that there are no legal bands between father and son, that the field "father" on the birth certificate is left empty and that the son bears the surname of the mother. Carlos jr. is now 17 years old.
OK. Well it seems that this is a totally different set of circumstances with totally different considerations, nothing like Albert's case.
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  #755  
Old 09-29-2014, 08:46 AM
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There are indeed many sides, or points of view, involved and we are all drawn to some more than others. I find myself unable to be very concerned about Paola's pride, dignity and reputation in the circumstances. She was also having affairs so by taking the stand she has she comes across as a hypocrite to me. Her insistence on her husband continuing to deny the product of his affair doesn't enhance her dignity or reputation, in my opinion; it diminishes it. I would have a far higher opinion of her if she allowed her husband to do what I consider to be the honourable thing and accept responsibility for his actions and submit to a DNA test rather than hiding behind his wife's skirts and the legal protections afforded by his royal status.
Yep, Paola was just as unfaithful... in fact there are many who believe Albert did only father three children, and they are not necessarily the children listed on the court website. I wonder how much that plays into Albert and Paola's attitude toward Delphine at this point?
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  #756  
Old 09-29-2014, 08:54 AM
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Yep, Paola was just as unfaithful... in fact there are many who believe Albert did only father three children, and they are not necessarily the children listed on the court website. I wonder how much that plays into Albert and Paola's attitude toward Delphine at this point?
Oooh! *rubs hands together* The plot thickens!
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  #757  
Old 09-29-2014, 09:36 AM
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The late Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands only publicly recognized his two extramarital daughters in an interview published very shortly after his death. The Prince made sure that Alicia de Bielefeld and Alexia Lejeune-Grinda would equally share in his inheritance.

With Alexia Lejeune-Grinda there are similar circumstances as with Delphine. Not only do both share the same age, also she was legally recognized by another father, in this case the Baron Stanislas Lejeune. Like King Albert II the Prince did not confirm or deny the existence of a possible extramarital daughter. Both his daughters seem to have received periodical financial dotations from Prince Bernhard. It is generally assumed (but not proven) that Prince Bernhard -married with a very wealthy wife- was open for money offered by Lockheed because he had to find ways to pay for his two daughters and their mothers without the knowledge of Queen Juliana.

It seemed expecially Alexia was a regular guest at Soestdijk Palace. As said, only after his death Prince Bernhard publicly acknowledged his daughters. Both Alicia and Alexia have received their share of Prince Bernhard's inheritance. There are no contacts with their half-sisters Princess Beatrix, Princess Irene, Princess Margriet and Princess Christina. Apparently both Alicia and Alexia felt no need for public-fought battles or recognitions. They knew Prince Bernhard was their father and that was it.
  #758  
Old 09-29-2014, 10:09 AM
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Prince Bernhard however stayed in touch with his daughters, as was mentioned by Alicia de Bielefeld. Albert did not.
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  #759  
Old 09-29-2014, 02:21 PM
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Prince Bernhard however stayed in touch with his daughters, as was mentioned by Alicia de Bielefeld. Albert did not.
Indeed, P.Bernhard did not feel the need to seek the publicity with his daughters (until he died), but did keep in touch with them throughout his life.
Alexia and Alicia visited the palace (Soestdijk) and the holiday-home (in Porto Ercole) to meet with Bernhard and also met Q.Juliana (!)

This is exactly what K.Albert does not do with Delphine, and imo had he kept in touch privately, there would have been no courtcase now

Anyone who thinks Delphine's situation is comparable to Alicia/Alexia is precisely missing the point...
  #760  
Old 09-29-2014, 03:16 PM
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Just as many do not have empathy for Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps and Delphine BoŽl in this situation, so do many also not have empathy for "poor" Queen Paola, who wishes to keep intact her pride, dignity and reputation. Very Christian virtues and ones which she must have temporarily forgotten when she too was engaging in extramarital affairs during the difficult period in her union with her husband. There are obviously many sides to this story.

I never wrote that I don't have empathy for Queen Paola,Her Majesty has my utmost respect and admiration, she like all women has the right to keep her pride and dignity , but this situation has long been out of control and very publicised, it didn't need to turn out this way. Maybe, maybe if as I have read , she wasn't so strongly refusing to acknowledge Delphine, things would have been better for both sides and her children and husband would not have been summoned to court.

There are many illegitimate children around the world whose fathers won't acknowledge them, the children don't accept it , but at the very least get along with it. This is a different one. And apparently Delphine won't stop trying until she gets what she wants.

In the past I was on Albert's side, but now I am neutral, both parties are making bad moves that won't have any benefit for each of them at all IMO.
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