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  #681  
Old 09-24-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
No, not 19%. Queen Paola has the right on the usufruct of the whole estate of her late husband. The legal reserves are: half for the surviving spouse and half for the children. Belgian Law says that when there are three or more children, at least 3/4 of the other half has to be divided by the children. The legal share for the spouse can be considerably higher, for an example when in the nuptial agreement special provisions have been made for a surviving spouse. These provisions made at the start of the communal life have precedence in the distribution of the inheritance. But okay, let us keep that out of our eyeview, then we have the standard situation:

50% for the surviving spouse
37,5% legal reserve in case of three or more children
12,5% free distribution by Testament

More in detail:

50% Paola
9,375% Philippe (in reserve - Paola holds the usufruct)
9,375% Astrid (in reserve - Paola holds the usufruct)
9,375% Laurent (in reserve - Paola holds the usufruct)
9,375% Delphine (in reserve - Paola holds the usufruct)
12,5% free for eventual distribution by Testament (in reserve - Paola holds the usufruct)

The person holding the usufruct can agree to free the reserve. This means Paola can say: "I want to keep the use of the Ch‚teau de BťlvedŤre and everything in that house, I want to keep the use of the holiday estate in Italy, I want to enjoy the rents on the investment portfolio, the rest is free for distribution". Then a notary will make exact notice what has been already been "consumed" from the legal parts hold in reserve. It is very complicated. In theory Queen Paola can order the notary to free 9,375% of her late husband's inheritance, which is Delphine's reserve, by not claiming usufruct on it, so that she is "free" from that "annoying person" hanging above her like a dark cloud.

When Queen Paola dies, the usufruct ends and the reserves falls free for the heirs, Delphine then has the right on 9,375% of King Albert's estate (unless she has already "consumed" it before). Delphine is no child of Queen Paola, so in principle her three half-siblings will inherit the other half of their father's inheritance via their mother. Delphine will then get little or nothing as she is no descendant of Paola.
Thank you for correcting the information. I heard this on Euronews when Delphine went to court last year.
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  #682  
Old 09-25-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
I'm just confused as to why it seems she is drawing all this out in public. If she wants to know, fine, but why all this media circus. I agree with you, what is she really gaining in all of this, except confirmation about what she probably already knows. I doubt she would have any claim to any inheritance if Albert did not specify such in his will.
It seems the court case was not supposed to be known or mediatised. At least thatís what Delphine Boel said in an interview 2 weeks ago. She is convinced someone of the juridical court leaked it to the media. I have no idea if there ever was a realistic chance to keep such a process a secret though.
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  #683  
Old 09-25-2014, 10:45 AM
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A cartoon published in the Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad.
https://twitter.com/michelhenrion/st...185985/photo/1
The caption: Delphine gets her DNA sample.
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  #684  
Old 09-25-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by *Mara* View Post
A cartoon published in the Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad.
https://twitter.com/michelhenrion/st...185985/photo/1
The caption: Delphine gets her DNA sample.
Very clever. It is sad. The classy thing for Albert to do is say, she is my child, everything after that could be worked out privately.
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  #685  
Old 09-25-2014, 03:13 PM
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I agree with that
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  #686  
Old 09-25-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Very clever. It is sad. The classy thing for Albert to do is say, she is my child, everything after that could be worked out privately.
But what, when she is not?

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  #687  
Old 09-25-2014, 03:52 PM
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What makes you think that Delphine is not the daughter of the ex-King?

Quote:
Very clever. It is sad. The classy thing for Albert to do is say, she is my child, everything after that could be worked out privately.
Lets say a DNA test is done, says she's the biological daughter, what then? What does she think is going to happen? Suddenly living in one of the palaces? A title? Pension? Full open social acceptance? To become a patron of charities? A place at the dinner/lunch/breakfast table among the royals? Or maybe an estate of her own? To be part of international committees? Albert showing her off as a proud father should, dancing with her at balls?
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  #688  
Old 09-25-2014, 03:55 PM
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Unless I am somehow enormously mistaken, Duc_et_Pair is not writing that he does not believe Delphine to be the daughter of Albert, but, rather, that he does not believe Delphine to be "classy."
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  #689  
Old 09-25-2014, 03:56 PM
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Brief interview (in English) with Delphine BoŽl about her current exhibition:



http://www.guypietersgallery.com/en/knokke-albertplein

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  #690  
Old 09-25-2014, 04:08 PM
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I think she once said that the goal was to get him to acknowledge her as his child, and for some reason i kinda believe that that's indeed the main thing for her
Imo she has been trying this for so long she has gotten into a mode of tunnelvision, which doesn't help her

Because K.Albert did have a *thing* with her mother, the best option would have been if he had consented to a dna test before the situation had gotten out in public in the first place, but that ship has sailed and imo he will need some good advisors to come out of this in a good way

I do hope for Delphine that she gets her answers, i hope for the BRF that somehow these answers will be kept private
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  #691  
Old 09-25-2014, 04:20 PM
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It was written that King Albert should show class by recognizing Delphine as his daughter. This indicates the assumption that Delphine IS his daughter.

My question was: what if Delphine is not his daughter? With other words, as long as there is no proof that Delphine IS Albert's daughter, we can not say so much about all this. A few days ago on this forum someone popped up with "proof" that he was a descendant of Nicholas and Alexandra. The fact that DNA has proven that the remains of the Tsar, the Tsarina, the Tsarevich and the four Grand Duchesses were all found was of no any importance.

Morale of the story, let us await the outcome of the lawsuit. Until it is proven, I regard King Albert II as "the alleged father" and Delphine as "the alleged daughter".



In the meantime Delphine is not clear about her motives. In Belgian media she was cited "I want King Albert to take his responsibility. I am not looking for a father. I only want to be free of discrimination and disadvantages for the sake of my children."

What responsibility King Albert exactly has to take and what that means is unclear to me. What discrimination and disadvantages the daughter of a dazzling rich aristocrat has faced is also unclear to me. Any possible discrimination, disadvantages or public hostility are all the result of her very own public outings. Before her public existence, no any Belgian knew who the high- and wellborn Jonkvrouw Delphine BoŽl was. She lived part of her youth in England, on the estate of her stepfather. So what discrimination of disadvantage did she face when she started to live in Łberposh Portobello Road in Notting Hill? Come on! How privileged can someone ever be?

Alleged natural father: the wealthy King of the Belgians
Natural mother: the wealthy Sybille Baroness de Selys Longchamps
Legal father: the wealthy Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl
Stepfather: the wealthy Michael-Anthony Rathmore Cayzer (of the barons Rotherwick of Tilney)

How many golden spoons does someone need in life, how many fantastic connections and opportunities? The lady herself destroyed it all. One by one. The lady just need good psychologic counsel.
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  #692  
Old 09-25-2014, 04:57 PM
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There is a very legitimate base for the idea that she is his daughter.

- it is a fact that her legal father is not her biological father
- it is a fact that Albert had a relationship with her mother 9 months before she was born and for many years afterwards
- it is a fact Albert lived with her and her mother for years
- it is a fact that her mother claims that Albert is the father
- it is a fact that she resembles Albert's mother
- it is a fact that many sources around the court and high standing officials say that she is his daughter
- it is a fact that nobody -including Albert- ever denied she is his daughter. Instead of a denial Alberts lawyer once stated that Albert refuses to be regarded as her father. A rather insightful nuance
- it is a fact that Laurent and Delphine were in touch even these last years
- it is a fact that nothing has ever shown up in the press or in books that casts even one doubt on Delphine's story

One or two of these things may not be convincing, but all of them together gives a nearly finished puzzle. The only piece lacking is his DNA sample but that will most likely never be given voluntarily.

People keep going on about golden spoons, titles, fortunes, gold-digging, psychiatrists, Portobello road, spoiled heiresses, etc. which have nothing to do with this matter. Whatever motives she may have is irrelevant to the issue too. In the end of the day this is a very simple story of a woman who wants to prove who her father is. Nothing more, nothing less. I am sure that that isn't such an extraordinary wish.
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  #693  
Old 09-25-2014, 05:24 PM
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^ *Standing Ovation*!!!!
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  #694  
Old 09-25-2014, 05:34 PM
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Thank you for that post, Marengo!
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  #695  
Old 09-26-2014, 02:25 AM
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Excellent post, but she is not someone who suffered any real deprivations in life. So I don't pity her if she has some issues with happiness. There are a lot of pieces of circumstantial evidence and could all add up.

But what then? Life will go on and I wonder, what kind of life does she think she will get?
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  #696  
Old 09-26-2014, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
There is a very legitimate base for the idea that she is his daughter.

- it is a fact that her legal father is not her biological father
- it is a fact that Albert had a relationship with her mother 9 months before she was born and for many years afterwards
- it is a fact Albert lived with her and her mother for years
- it is a fact that her mother claims that Albert is the father
- it is a fact that she resembles Albert's mother
- it is a fact that many sources around the court and high standing officials say that she is his daughter
- it is a fact that nobody -including Albert- ever denied she is his daughter. Instead of a denial Alberts lawyer once stated that Albert refuses to be regarded as her father. A rather insightful nuance
- it is a fact that Laurent and Delphine were in touch even these last years
- it is a fact that nothing has ever shown up in the press or in books that casts even one doubt on Delphine's story

One or two of these things may not be convincing, but all of them together gives a nearly finished puzzle. The only piece lacking is his DNA sample but that will most likely never be given voluntarily.

People keep going on about golden spoons, titles, fortunes, gold-digging, psychiatrists, Portobello road, spoiled heiresses, etc. which have nothing to do with this matter. Whatever motives she may have is irrelevant to the issue too. In the end of the day this is a very simple story of a woman who wants to prove who her father is. Nothing more, nothing less. I am sure that that isn't such an extraordinary wish.
If it is all so clear that Albert is Delphine's father, even without the DNA, and as -in Delphine's own words- "she is not seeking for her father", why then all this hullabaloo, this media-circus, if she does not want anything from him? If it is so clear that Albert is her father, if there are so many pictures, if there is so much proof, then Delphine already KNOWS he is her father. She has already publicly stated she does not want anything from him. So WHAT does she want then? Public humiliation? Going on his knees or something? I have ZERO empathy with her, while I have a big heart for all those others growing up in difficult circumstances, without a father, in harsh conditions and with a disadvantage in life. Nothing of all this for the high- and wellborn Jonkvrouw Delphine MichŤle Anne Marie Ghislaine BoŽl. The Lady Born With The Golden Spoon just has an Łber-zealous rage in her head, instead of going on with her privileged life, with her family and children, She Has A Mission. What she exactly wants to achieve is unclear (she already seems to know so perfectly well that Albert is her father). There is a reason why King Albert, King Philippe, Archduchess Astrid and Prince Laurent do not cooperate. I think it is the demanding way she acts, her ever pouting mouth, her victimization as if gross injustice and unbearable sufferings have hit her, while most Belgians can only dream about the circumstances of her privileged life.

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  #697  
Old 09-26-2014, 03:28 AM
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Both Delphine BoŽl and her lawyers have made it clear that it is their intention to prove that HM King Albert is her legal father.

This fact has been in practically every single article about this case.

That is what she wants: legal recognition of her parentage.
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  #698  
Old 09-26-2014, 03:42 AM
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Agree.

As for Delphine, if the Belgian RF consents, ti means that they would be setting a precedent for every other lunatic coming out of the woodwork and demanding that one royal or another give their DNA/blood to a lab.

There are a lot of crazy people who think that they're related to royals and frankly put, it might cause a deluge in requests.

Delphine is acting crazy; she had everything on a silver platter, two fathers in her life, both fathers connected and wealthy. She had the life of privilege and apparently never worried about bills since she plays at being an artiste. In no way has she lived a disadvantaged life n any respect, no sympathy for her.

She has no business mouthing off about discrimination since I am certain she does not know the meaning of the word. Discrimination my arse. She has had it all growing up. A mother who loves her and is titled in her own right. She hasn't had ot deal with anything negative and she's not the first kid to be born out of a union between a royal and his titled mistress.

She's on this horrendously destructive rampage and to what end?
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  #699  
Old 09-26-2014, 03:54 AM
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As Benjamin said, to the end of legal recognition.

It is unlikely that they will consent voluntarily indeed. But I don't think it is a precedent for every nutter out there. Her claim has a rather solid base, uncomparable with wild stories of others.

Again, she didn't have two fathers in her life. Mr. BoŽl knew rather early that she wasn't his daughter, he lived seperately from his wife and Delphine and never saw him much. Their relationship was strained, not all that surprising as the situation must have been difficult for Mr BoŽl too. Albert was there until her teenage years.

I wonder again why this focus on her supposed privilige and wealth. What does it have to do with the matter? Well-to-do people don't have human emotions? Money makes people immune for setbacks in life? What curious logic. And apart from a curious logic it is also an incorrect logic, as this report from the University of Michigan shows:

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/res...g%20income.pdf

She doesn't need sympathy or pity. I understand that people question her motives. These motives may or may not be unedifying (or both), who knows? But I don't think that should alter her -or any other child's- moral right to establish her parentage. Her motives and her being allowed to establish her parentage are two different issues.

I agree however that it is unlikely that she will ever win this case. It will probably be lost, or even more likely: postponed, postponed and postponed. I also agree that probably the best thing for her own health is to accept the present and move on. But she is obviously not able or willing to do that.
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:13 AM
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It seems to me that we have essentially divided into two camps on this thread: (a) those who accept it as reasonable for a woman to want to prove who her father is, with that as an end goal in itself, and (b) those who cannot accept that such a simple goal is something any person in her circumstances might reasonably seek to achieve, or do not accept that is all she, in particular, wants. And I think the discussion has reached the stage where we will simply have to agree to disagree.
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