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  #601  
Old 09-23-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Belgian kingís Ďillegitimate daughterí in court bid for recognition Ė which would put her 15th in line to countryís throne

This article is utter nonsense - who believes in what the Daily Fail writes? Even if she's The King's daughter - nothing can be proven without a DNA test - nothing will change the fact that she's illegitimate and ineligible to succession. I think she's nothing but a gold digger.
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:49 PM
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You never know; for all we know, the court might set up a new ruling based on Human Rights and could in fact influence future generations. Weirder things have happened.
No, this is about parenthood, not about the line of succession. When the law defines a legitimate marriage (and in Belgium and most continental countries that is the civil marriage only) then Delphine is not born by the wife which is the lady standing on the marriage certificate: Donna Paola Margherita Giuseppina Maria Consiglia dei principi Ruffo di Calabria.

In some cases it is even more strict: for an example in the Netherlands the Parliament (in a special joint session of both Chambers) has to appove a Bill of Consent for an intended marriage of a royal successor. This mans that an extramarital child of King Willem-Alexander would not only fall outside the legal marriage on itself, it also would fall outside the workings of the Act of Consent given for the wedding of the King with his present spouse. After all such an extramarital child would be given birth by a lady for whom that Act of Consent was never given...

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Old 09-23-2014, 03:54 PM
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This article is utter nonsense - who believes in what the Daily Fail writes? Even if she's The King's daughter - nothing can be proven without a DNA test - nothing will change the fact that she's illegitimate and ineligible to succession. I think she's nothing but a gold digger.
When Delphine is a gold digger, she would better keep her legal father Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl... The BoŽl family is in the Top Ten of Belgium's most wealthy families...



For the rest I completely agree with your post

Richest families of Belgium:

the family Van Rompuy (Argenta Financial Holding) - not related to the EU President Van Rompuy
the family D'Ieteren (Importer of Volkswagen in Belgium and 100 more countries)
the family Bekaert (conglomerate of metal industrial companies)
the family Huts (Offshore and petrochems)
the family BoŽl (steel and finances)
the family Lhoist-Bergmans (chalk and minerals)
the family Cigrand (Cobelfret, the major company in the Ports of Antwerpen and Ostend)
the family De Nul (offshore and dredging)
the family Unilin (wood industries)
the family Colruyt (retail)
the family Emsens (mining)
the family FrŤre (banking and mining)
the families Spoelberch, Mťvius and VanDamme (InBev, one of the world's largest beer producers)
  #604  
Old 09-23-2014, 03:57 PM
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When Delphine is a gold digger, she would better keep her legal father Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl... The BoŽl family is in the Top Ten of Belgium's most wealthy families...
Then she's the most stupid attention seeker ever.
  #605  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:13 PM
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Then she's the most stupid attention seeker ever.
The lady indeed does not look very stable, mentally that is.

  #606  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
When Delphine is a gold digger, she would better keep her legal father Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl... The BoŽl family is in the Top Ten of Belgium's most wealthy families...



For the rest I completely agree with your post

Richest families of Belgium:

the family Van Rompuy (Argenta Financial Holding) - not related to the EU President Van Rompuy
the family D'Ieteren (Importer of Volkswagen in Belgium and 100 more countries)
the family Bekaert (conglomerate of metal industrial companies)
the family Huts (Offshore and petrochems)
the family BoŽl (steel and finances)
the family Lhoist-Bergmans (chalk and minerals)
the family Cigrand (Cobelfret, the major company in the Ports of Antwerpen and Ostend)
the family De Nul (offshore and dredging)
the family Unilin (wood industries)
the family Colruyt (retail)
the family Emsens (mining)
the family FrŤre (banking and mining)
the families Spoelberch, Mťvius and VanDamme (InBev, one of the world's largest beer producers)
But didn't BoŽl disinherit her? so she would be looking for the money from her biological father...
  #607  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The Audiences where the Lawyer of Albert II , the lawyer of Mr Jacques BoŽl and the one of Delphine took a whole day long and Delphine attended the whole day.

This affair (une premiŤre) in our history will take a very long time , what can a young Citizen do against a Former Head os State.

The attitude of Queen Paola and her protection towards HER Children makes it difficult of King Albert.
Do you think Paola puts her foot down to protect her children? I always got the impression itís her immense pride that gets into the way of a solution. After all Albert only started to ignore Delphine after her existence was revealed by the press. Prior to that Paola seems to have tolerated that Albert and Delphine kept in touch. Then again, itís unfair to put all the blame on Paola, ultimately its Albertís responsibility. And pretty sure Delphineís life would have been much easier had her name not been revealed.


Also, judged by Jaques Boelís recent u-turn he has had enough of it too. Albert and Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps asked a lot of him all these years. That he agreed to have the paternity test done shows that he is no longer willing to cover up for Albert and Sybille. The Boels are one very discreet family, this situation must be quite humiliating for him. If the newspaper reports are correct then Albertís lawyers argue that Jaques Boel has to stay her legal father because Delphineís claims are time-barred. From a judicial point of view this probably is a good strategy, but itís another deeply dishonourable move of Albert.
  #608  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:18 PM
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But didn't BoŽl disinherit her? so she would be looking for the money from her biological father...
Yes, Delphine claims that she has been scrapped out of the testament of her father, Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl. The father himself has said nothing about it. It seems the Jonkheer has been most upset with his legal daughter's actions because he has always tried to achieve utmost discretion, both about his private life as well his fortune.

The story is nonsens however. Delphine still is the legal daughter of Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl. In most continental systems, also in the Belgian one, it is not possible to disinherit a child. Legally children have the right on a reservatory part of the inheritance (also called "child's portion"). This means that Delphine, as only child, can claim at least half of the inheritance. Jonkheer BoŽl can only completely disinherit his legal daughter when he applies for repeal of the recognition. In general this can only be done when it is proven that the juridical father is not the biological father and the legal father must prove that his recognition 46 years ago was the result of misleading, fraud, forgery or outside his free will. That will not be easy, after all Jacques BoŽl has for 46 years known that Delphine was not his biological daughter.

Delphine is throwing stones into her own windows, one by one, and what for? She will never become "family" in this already dysfunctional family and she will barely inherit anything from her alleged father King Albert as his private fortune compares as a mouse to an elephant with Jonkheer BoŽl. And added to that: Delphine is the only child and heir of the Jonkheer, while she will have to share a much smaller inheritance with lots more of alleged "siblings" who most likely will refuse to maintain any contact with her. She is really crazy.

  #609  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by *Mara* View Post
[....] From a judicial point of view this probably is a good strategy, but itís another deeply dishonourable move of Albert.
We can only label something honourable or dishonourable when we know all the facts. For so far no one knows if King Albert indeed is the father of Delphine BoŽl. That there is a similarity with the features of King Albert's mother says nothing.

There is a program on Dutch television "DNA unknown" where people with doubt about parenthood etc. can have a DNA-check. It is always build up around a case and how often the viewers were not fooled. Something like: "My brother is the only one with red hair and freckles. No any other sibling has that. Now our late mother, bless her memory, was always alone in the house. The milkman came every day en had.... red hair and freckles...."

All siblings in the studio and the whole audience all over the country convinced that he must be the milkman's son. How often the DNA simply reveals that for 99,9999 % the red-haired dude is just a son indeed and has nothing at all to do with the milkman.... That program is amusing and also a very good eye-opener how tricky it can be to judge on looks.

  #610  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:55 PM
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The laws of the constitutions of Belgium and Monaco excluds illegitimat chidren from the sucession. a constitution could not be changed without the agreement of the court , the politics teams and so. No human right counts when it is in a constitution.
We know that Daily Mail is always saying false article.
  #611  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
We can only label something honourable or dishonourable when we know all the facts.
So far we know that:

1) Jacques BoŽl remains the legal father of Delphine BoŽl, but he is not her biological father per the recent DNA test.
2) HM King Albert and Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps had an affair beginning in the 1960s and perhaps extending into the 1970s - there are enough photographs of them together in intimate settings during this time to make that obvious.

I hope that Delphine BoŽl and her avocats are ultimately successful. I do not think that she is seeking any sort of acceptance as family by the members of the Royal House. I do think that she is attempting to establish the truth surrounding her conception and that is certainly her right.
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  #612  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
So far we know that:

1) Jacques BoŽl remains the legal father of Delphine BoŽl, but he is not her biological father per the recent DNA test.
2) HM King Albert and Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps had an affair beginning in the 1960s and perhaps extending into the 1970s - there are enough photographs of them together in intimate settings during this time to make that obvious.

I hope that Delphine BoŽl and her avocats are ultimately successful. I do not think that she is seeking any sort of acceptance as family by the members of the Royal House. I do think that she is attempting to establish the truth surrounding her conception and that is certainly her right.
It says nothing because the Baroness had other affairs as well. We have to remember that it all only started when a young (18 years old!) author, named Mario Danneels, wrote a floppy book with the sugarfondant title "Paola: from La Dolce Vita to Queen" and in which en passant the existence of an extramarital daughter was revealed. At that moment Delphine was 33 years, daughter of a dazzling rich father and raised in most privileged circumstances. She knew it all the time but never made an attempt until all the hullabaloo about the book placed all possible spotlights on her and she started to use the media for her profit. As another aristocrat (Diana Spencer) has painfully experienced: give the media one finger, they take your whole hand. The story went completely out of proportion and derailed.

Rumours say that Albert (and legal father Jacques) were so upset with all this because the old aristocrat code-of-honour seems that a father has to give the best possible circumstances to a child which was born outside marriage. Delphine grew up with a father who belongs to the Top Ten of most wealthy families of Belgium and has reportedly enjoyed a pleasant, carefree and lovely youth. According the rumours, -if true-, both Jacques BoŽl and Albert would do so difficult with accepting because they honestly feel that Delphine is the last one to have any ground for complaints and can not be compared with those countless babies who grow up in single parent families in poor circumstances. If (if, if, if) true, we have to replace us in the mindset of the aristocrats Jacques and Albert. Not to forget: Baroness Sybille, who has fully co-operated in this set up and maintained it for more than 4 decades. All this of course assuming that King Albert would be Delphine's father. This would then be a sort of explanation why the King categorically denies his cooperation (as well -until recently- Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl).
  #613  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:24 PM
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What is your source for the claim that the Baroness had other affairs?

There are pictures in the public realm of the then Prince Albert together with the Baroness and a very young Delphine.

Sybille and Jacques seem to have separated when Delphine was quite young and they were divorced by the time she was ten in 1978. So, it is not exactly as if Jonkheer BoŽl necessarily acted as any sort of father figure in the life of Delphine. He is still legally her father, but he disinherited her before it was even proven that she was not his biological issue - and that can be interpreted any number of ways.
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  #614  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
So far we know that:



1) Jacques BoŽl remains the legal father of Delphine BoŽl, but he is not her biological father per the recent DNA test.

2) HM King Albert and Sybille de Sťlys Longchamps had an affair beginning in the 1960s and perhaps extending into the 1970s - there are enough photographs of them together in intimate settings during this time to make that obvious.



I hope that Delphine BoŽl and her avocats are ultimately successful. I do not think that she is seeking any sort of acceptance as family by the members of the Royal House. I do think that she is attempting to establish the truth surrounding her conception and that is certainly her right.

It was her lawyer the DM quoted as saying if she's found to be Albert's biological child she'll have a place in the line of succession. That to me certainly suggests that she's aiming for more than just recognition as Albert's child.

Don't get me wrong, I think Albert's behaving badly here. If there is any likelihood that this is his child - and there is - then he should be taking measures to establish that and provide for her in a similar way to how he's provided for his other children (granted, he doesn't seem to be winning any Father of the Year awards with them either). But Delphine isn't exactly acting in a way that would foster a good relationship either. She's bringing the personal, private lives of the family into the public, and contributing to a scandal. She may not have started the rumours, but she's definitely doing her best to benefit from them.

It's my opinion that if Delphine had gone about this in a way that wasn't so clearly designed to alienate her father and his family she may have been a lot more successful in her endeavors.

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What is your source for the claim that the Baroness had other affairs?

There are pictures in the public realm of the then Prince Albert together with the Baroness and a very young Delphine.

Sybille and Jacques seem to have separated when Delphine was quite young and they were divorced by the time she was ten in 1978. So, it is not exactly as if Jonkheer BoŽl necessarily acted as any sort of father figure in the life of Delphine. He is still legally her father, but he disinherited her before it was even proven that she was not his biological issue - and that can be interpreted any number of ways.

Jacques may not have been Sybile's partner or spouse throughout much of Delphine's life, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't a part of Delphine's life in itself. Legally he was his father, and we don't know what kind of role he had in her life.

His disinheriting her doesn't necessarily mean anything. Would you really want to leave your estate to a child who has gone out of her way to depict you as a cuckolded man and to disavow your relationship with her?

I almost think Delphine started pursing this because she liked the public attention, then was forced to continue to pursue it because her legal father disinherited her and she lost a chance at a lot of money. Yes she's been wronged by Albert, but that doesn't put her motives in the right here.
  #615  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
We can only label something honourable or dishonourable when we know all the facts. For so far no one knows if King Albert indeed is the father of Delphine BoŽl. That there is a similarity with the features of King Albert's mother says nothing.

There is a program on Dutch television "DNA unknown" where people with doubt about parenthood etc. can have a DNA-check. It is always build up around a case and how often the viewers were not fooled. Something like: "My brother is the only one with red hair and freckles. No any other sibling has that. Now our late mother, bless her memory, was always alone in the house. The milkman came every day en had.... red hair and freckles...."

All siblings in the studio and the whole audience all over the country convinced that he must be the milkman's son. How often the DNA simply reveals that for 99,9999 % the red-haired dude is just a son indeed and has nothing at all to do with the milkman.... That program is amusing and also a very good eye-opener how tricky it can be to judge on looks.

I never judged Delphine by looks and I also dont belive that resemblance with alleged family members says anything significant about paternity whatsoever. In fact I think Delphine looks like her mother Sybille who happens to resemble Queen Astrid.


There are other evidences though. For ex. Albert himself as well as King Baudouin informed at least 3 Belgian prime ministers (Tindemans, Martens, Dehaene) and other top politicians about the existence of an illegitimate child. Would they have done so if they were really sure Delphine wasn’t his child? I don’t think so.
And regarding the “attention seeking” side: Delphine only started to talk to the press 5 years after the publication of Mario Danneels book. Its my impression that this situation could have been avoided had Albert and the court lend more support to Delphine and her mother. Things escalated during the course of time and to put all the blame on "crazy" Delphine and her mother is quite one-dimensional imo.
  #616  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:20 PM
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It is rather absurd to continue to maintain that Delphine is not Albert's daughter. All of Belgium knows that she is, many former prime ministers, former ministers, other high officials even said mentioned such on the record - which is quite uncommon. As did Sybille, Delphine and many other people around the court. It is extremely likely that she is his daughter, something that was never denied by Albert in public (though he once said it to Delphine herself).

As I said in an earlier post, Delphine seems hurt, angry and looking for revenge at this stage. Not the best motives perhaps, but understandable. As her father, with whom she lived for several years as a normal family, refused to see her time & time again after he made up with his wife. I think that maria olivia has a point when she says that Queen Paola must be a factor in this too. Delphine must be a painful reminder of a bad period in her life, even more inconvenient since the couple joined one of these spooky ultra-catholic movements when Paola's sex-appeal started to dwindle & Baudouin had enough of the couple's marital mess.

Whatever Delphine's reasons are, the responsibility for this mess only lies with Albert. He fathered the child, he lived with her and raised her for a decade or so and he denounced her when Baudouin forced him to go back to his wife or give up his position and dotation. Instead of taking the responsibility for his behavior, he just looked the other way and hoped for the 'inconvenience' to go away. It didn't. A few years ago Delphine mainly seemed bitter towards Paola, who she seemed to blame for Alberts silence at the time. By now it seems that she also sees that the one responsible is first and foremost her father.

As a biological child Delphine has a right of her share of any possible inheritance. I don't see how such a thing would be gold-digging. That King Albert seems a jolly, friendly man doesn't change the fact that his behavior towards his own flesh and blood has been abdominable. Prince Bernhard, for all his -many- faults actually did treat his extramarital daughters more decently. If Albert would have continued seeing his daughter in private, I am quite sure his life as well as Delphine's would have been much better for it and this mess could have been avoided. It would probably have been better on a personal level, but certainly much better for the image of the monarchy and esp. of Albert himself.

About Delphine & the BoŽl fortune, IIRC she claims that he diverted money to all sorts of foundations and such, to make sure that she does not inherit a penny as nothing is on his name. It wouldn't be the first time when a m/billionaire uses a loophole in legislation to preserve his fortune for his relatives. And in this case it is understandable, according to Delphine she never had a good relationship with Mr. BoŽl he was seldom around in her youth.
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  #617  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:41 PM
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This article is utter nonsense - who believes in what the Daily Fail writes? Even if she's The King's daughter - nothing can be proven without a DNA test - nothing will change the fact that she's illegitimate and ineligible to succession. I think she's nothing but a gold digger.
How lovely. Lets look at in the other direction. How about he if he IS in fact her father and has been denying it her entire life. Marengo said it perfectly. I will just applaud.
  #618  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:51 PM
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How lovely. Lets look at in the other direction. How about he if he IS in fact her father and has been denying it her entire life. Marengo said it perfectly. I will just applaud.
Then she'll have money - which I think is the only thing she wants - and no man who loves her as father, quite the contrary. A pitiful situation.

But, of course, King Albert II and Sybille are the ones to be blamed. His Majesty for breaking his sacred marriage vows, Sybille for sharing her bed with a man who was not her husband. The whole thing is disgraceful.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:55 PM
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How she was conceived and her parent's behavior in general may be disgraceful. She was born as an innocent baby. She is entitled to be recognized by her paternal family. Why exactly do you think the royals are refusing to give a DNA sample? Money and PR.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:06 PM
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(snip)
As I said in an earlier post, Delphine seems hurt, angry and looking for revenge at this stage. Not the best motives perhaps, but understandable. As her father, with whom she lived for several years as a normal family, refused to see her time & time again after he made up with his wife. I think that maria olivia has a point when she says that Queen Paola must be a factor in this too. Delphine must be a painful reminder of a bad period in her life, even more inconvenient since the couple joined one of these ultra-catholic movements when Paola's sex-appeal started to dwindle & Baudouin had enough of the couple's marital mess.

Whatever Delphine's reasons are, the responsibility for this mess only lies with Albert. He fathered the child, he lived with her and raised her for a decade or so and he denounced her when Baudouin forced him to go back to his wife or give up his position and dotation. Instead of taking the responsibility for his behavior, he just looked the other way and hoped for the 'inconvenience' to go away. It didn't. A few years ago Delphine mainly seemed bitter towards Paola, who she seemed to blame for Alberts silence at the time. By now it seems that she also sees that the one responsible is first and foremost her father.

As a biological child Delphine has a right of her share of any possible inheritance. I don't see how such a thing would be gold-digging. That King Albert seems a jolly, friendly man doesn't change the fact that his behavior towards his own flesh and blood has been abdominable. Prince Bernhard, for all his -many- faults actually did treat his extramarital daughters more decently. If Albert would have continued seeing his daughter in private, I am quite sure his life as well as Delphine's would have been much better for it and this mess could have been avoided. It would probably have been better on a personal level, but certainly much better for the image of the monarchy and esp. of Albert himself.
(snip)
Very well put. I totally agree.

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How she was conceived and her parent's behavior in general may be disgraceful. She was born as an innocent baby. She is entitled to be recognized by her paternal family. Why exactly do you think the royals are refusing to give a DNA sample? Money and PR.
PR? They need new PR advisors, because I think the way it's been handled makes the royals look pretty shabby.
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