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  #261  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I think you very much nailed it, in regards to Mary approaching her role in such a professional way. I believe that is something QMII (or any other monarch) appreciate very much. And if she happens to be very fond of Mary, which I believe is the case, so much the better.

ADDED: A clip from DR1 where QMII firmly makes it clear to a reporter that he is to use the formal you: VIDEO Dronningen til journalist: Tror ikke, vi er dus | Nyheder | DR

QMII later on express her delight over the informal tone used here in DK - but within limits...
Oh, and PH is down with a flu.
Muhler! thank you for this clip but I can't understand the young (of course! journalist's reaction. How does he take the queen's correction? Does he repeat using the formal you?
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  #262  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:20 PM
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Perhaps, French Toast, but stupid mistakes and bad manners can cost you.

If you represent a company and you go out and forget to not to address an elder Frenchman by last name, or a Pole for that matter. Or forget to address an elderly southern German with Sie. Or walk into an Asian home without taking off your shoes, that can cost you a business order.
At the very least you have to work extra hard to make up for the bad impression you made.

- It doesn't matter whether you or I think it's a silly thing that isn't that important, but you tell that to your boss when return without an order.

The journalist in question has learned the hard way to remember the etiquette the next time.

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Originally Posted by gerry View Post
Muhler! thank you for this clip but I can't understand the young (of course! journalist's reaction. How does he take the queen's correction? Does he repeat using the formal you?
He used the formal you when he continued the question, that is he used the informal you once again, but corrected himself.
He has since explained to BT that he was nervous but that he didn't say sorry, because he thought it was better to continue with his question. (Another mistake IMO. If you do screw up at least say sorry, it doesn't hurt and it only takes two nano seconds).
However, he also said his mobile has been very active after the press conference...
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  #263  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Perhaps, French Toast, but stupid mistakes and bad manners can cost you.
Bad manners? Again, how on the earth do you know that he's poorly mannered? He made a mistake. It's perfectly human. He was taken down by nerves – something QMII has experienced countless of times and something she undoubtedly will experience again.
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  #264  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

Perhaps, French Toast, but stupid mistakes and bad manners can cost you.

If you represent a company and you go out and forget to not to address an elder Frenchman by last name, or a Pole for that matter. Or forget to address an elderly southern German with Sie.
I was taught (in college in the United States) to address any adult German I don't know with "Sie". Does that apply now only to "elderly southern Germans" ? Sorry if it is off-topic, but I got curious.
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  #265  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

Perhaps, French Toast, but stupid mistakes and bad manners can cost you.

If you represent a company and you go out and forget to not to address an elder Frenchman by last name, or a Pole for that matter. Or forget to address an elderly southern German with Sie. Or walk into an Asian home without taking off your shoes, that can cost you a business order.
At the very least you have to work extra hard to make up for the bad impression you made.

- It doesn't matter whether you or I think it's a silly thing that isn't that important, but you tell that to your boss when return without an order.

The journalist in question has learned the hard way to remember the etiquette the next time.

Like I said it was an innocent albeit minor nervous mistake which will cost him nothing. He hasn't lost his job. If anything his mistake will only give him and the paper he represents publicity. Good and bad.

There are more pressing issues in this world to fuss over than a young man fresh out of journalism school making a small nervous mistake during a live press conference.
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  #266  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:50 PM
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Love to here QMI said she is so proud of the fourth children of the Crown Prince when they presented themselves so well in Greenland. The children did a fantastic job.

Oop! I meant QMII
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  #267  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Bad manners? Again, how on the earth do you know that he's poorly mannered? He made a mistake. It's perfectly human. He was taken down by nerves – something QMII has experienced countless of times and something she undoubtedly will experience again.
Not adhering to basic etiquette or the custom in a particular country or culture is bad manners. It can be excused with ignorance or nervousness, fair enough.
But he had his time to be prepared. And as a journalist, especially for a news agency he is expected to address and interview all sorts of people, so that was unprofessional of him. - Not saying sorry didn't help...
However, if you read the BT article he is quoted for saying "I haven't got anything particular against the DRF". I.e. (IMO) it's not that important to him, and apparantly not important enough for him wire his head and behind together. That is unprofessional and unprofessionalism is not a trait I admire. - It costs.

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I was taught (in college in the United States) to address any adult German I don't know with "Sie". Does that apply now only to "elderly southern Germans" ? Sorry if it is off-topic, but I got curious.
From personal experience. It depends. Northern Germans and especially those younger than 45 don't seem to be particular about using "Du" or first name. That also applies Germans who come to DK, they adapt to the local customs.
However, in Southern Germany and Austria I personally always address adults with "Sie" and last name, unless they dispense with the formalities first.
The same thing in France and Poland, even when speaking English, it's Mr. and Mrs. to all adults you don't know as a general rule.

And I may be an atheist but I wouldn't dream of walking into a church, especially in southern Europe, wearing shorts. - The excuse about "Oh, I forgot" or "I didn't think it was that important" doesn't apply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by French Toast View Post
Like I said it was an innocent albeit minor nervous mistake which will cost him nothing. He hasn't lost his job. If anything his mistake will only give him and the paper he represents publicity. Good and bad.

There are more pressing issues in this world to fuss over than a young man fresh out of journalism school making a small nervous mistake during a live press conference.
Berlingske is the most conservative newspaper/agency in DK, so I'm not that certain they are interested in bad publicity.

I agree that it's a minor thing, except... can you guess what the only thing the main news at 19.00 on TV2 showed from the press conference? - Yes, you guessed right. This episode.
Can you guess what the papers have among the top stories this evening? Yes, you got it right again.
So, alas, it has become an issue. And no one can even remember what the journalist asked...
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  #268  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:09 PM
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IMO its only an issue because Her Majesty made it an issue, would it be the first item on the news if she hadn't reacted. The journalist can't be blamed for everything in this case
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  #269  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:23 PM
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As I don't understand Danish could somebody translate what QM exactly said to the journalist? She was smiling but there was some astonished background murmur by the other journalists. Just curious.
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  #270  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Berlingske is the most conservative newspaper/agency in DK, so I'm not that certain they are interested in bad publicity.

I agree that it's a minor thing, except... can you guess what the only thing the main news at 19.00 on TV2 showed from the press conference? - Yes, you guessed right. This episode.
Can you guess what the papers have among the top stories this evening? Yes, you got it right again.
So, alas, it has become an issue. And no one can even remember what the journalist asked...
Highly doubtful.
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  #271  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kit View Post
As I don't understand Danish could somebody translate what QM exactly said to the journalist? She was smiling but there was some astonished background murmur by the other journalists. Just curious.
She said: "I don't want to be prudish, but we didn't go to school together, so I don't think we are dus (on informal terms)".

She later on elaborated that "an old wife" like her is used to and prefer a certain way to be on terms with people.

We can always debate whether she should have been more elegant, like including a formal you in her reply to the journalist. But why should she? She's the Queen, she's 75 and people know perfectly well that it's formal you, when you address her. All the other journalists present could remember that. I mean, it isn't rocket science.
In this way she made it clear that this is where the line is! And the journalist learned the hard way.
It would be like addressing President Obama as Barack, three times, at a press conference in the White House, and then say: "Oh, I was nervous". Yeah, and you've just got foot print in your behind.
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  #272  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:49 PM
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Aaah I see. Thanks!
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  #273  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Not adhering to basic etiquette or the custom in a particular country or culture is bad manners. It can be excused with ignorance or nervousness, fair enough.
But he had his time to be prepared. And as a journalist, especially for a news agency he is expected to address and interview all sorts of people, so that was unprofessional of him. - Not saying sorry didn't help...
However, if you read the BT article he is quoted for saying "I haven't got anything particular against the DRF". I.e. (IMO) it's not that important to him, and apparantly not important enough for him wire his head and behind together. That is unprofessional and unprofessionalism is not a trait I admire. - It costs.
Nerves can strike you regardless of how prepared you come. That goes for journalists as well as for you and I. The lack of apology can be explained by nerves, too. Perhaps he just wanted to get it over with after being publicly called out by QMII?

As for the informal address not being important to him, objectively speaking, you can't know that. I didn't read it like that, I read it as a "I was not trying to be disrespectful, I haven't got anything against the DRF so I have not reason to be disrespectful towards QMII".

We can all agree that it was unfortunate but come on, he wasn't being intentionally impertinent in any way. Is that unprofessionalism? I don't know. I'd call it a rookie mistake that he most definitely won't make again.
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  #274  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
She said: "I don't want to be prudish, but we didn't go to school together, so I don't think we are dus (on informal terms)".

She later on elaborated that "an old wife" like her is used to and prefer a certain way to be on terms with people.

We can always debate whether she should have been more elegant, like including a formal you in her reply to the journalist. But why should she? She's the Queen, she's 75 and people know perfectly well that it's formal you, when you address her. All the other journalists present could remember that. I mean, it isn't rocket science.
In this way she made it clear that this is where the line is! And the journalist learned the hard way.
It would be like addressing President Obama as Barack, three times, at a press conference in the White House, and then say: "Oh, I was nervous". Yeah, and you've just got foot print in your behind.
Thank you, Muhler, for confirming what the Queen said - I saw the video but it is nice for non-Danes like me to have the full picture!

I think that the Queen did exactly the right thing by lightheartedly reprimanding the journalist and insisting on the formal etiquette. If she hadn't done so, others might have taken it as "oh, we can get away with being informal". Standards at every opportunity should be maintained.
I have thought along these lines ever since a former British prime-minister insisted people call him by the shortened version of his first name, rather than Mr Blair!
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  #275  
Old 04-13-2015, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Nerves can strike you regardless of how prepared you come. That goes for journalists as well as for you and I. The lack of apology can be explained by nerves, too. Perhaps he just wanted to get it over with after being publicly called out by QMII?

As for the informal address not being important to him, objectively speaking, you can't know that. I didn't read it like that, I read it as a "I was not trying to be disrespectful, I haven't got anything against the DRF so I have not reason to be disrespectful towards QMII".

We can all agree that it was unfortunate but come on, he wasn't being intentionally impertinent in any way. Is that unprofessionalism? I don't know. I'd call it a rookie mistake that he most definitely won't make again.
Objectively speaking nor can you.
I will hardly call him a rookie.
He's been a journalists apprentice for four years, then a fully fledged journalist for a year.
He's working at a respectable news agency, not the local paper in Mudville. He must have interviewed people before or at least talked to people on the phone. So it can't have been the first time he has had to adhere to a different etiquette.
It's not a looong title he has to memorize, it's one simple word he needs to get right.
Also, there is a history, especially among some younger journalists, to push the limit for using informal address towards the DRF, for various reasons.
And if I am to be perfectly honest, I suspect that to be more likely than "being nervous".
That M&F may accept informal you, it's their business, but they are not the Regent Couple.

Okay, I may be harsh, I may be demanding, conservative, unforgiving and pigheaded. So be it, but I know that etiquette matters and you can lose your job and other people's jobs as well if you can't figure out to follow it.
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  #276  
Old 04-13-2015, 08:11 PM
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He used the formal you when he continued the question, that is he used the informal you once again, but corrected himself.
He has since explained to BT that he was nervous but that he didn't say sorry, because he thought it was better to continue with his question. (Another mistake IMO. If you do screw up at least say sorry, it doesn't hurt and it only takes two nano seconds).
However, he also said his mobile has been very active after the press conference...
thank you again Muhler! Obviously the young man learned his lesson and that should be the end of it; unless of course one of the mobile calls was from his editor .....
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  #277  
Old 04-13-2015, 08:28 PM
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I really feel sorry for this poor journalists - jeez, he didn't run over a puppy, he made a mistake in addressing the Queen! And apparently it's gone viral all over Denmark. Don't the Danish have other things to concern themselves with tonight?
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  #278  
Old 04-13-2015, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I really feel sorry for this poor journalists - jeez, he didn't run over a puppy, he made a mistake in addressing the Queen! And apparently it's gone viral all over Denmark. Don't the Danish have other things to concern themselves with tonight?
Doesn't seem like it.
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  #279  
Old 04-13-2015, 08:43 PM
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Standards at every opportunity should be maintained.
I have thought along these lines ever since a former British prime-minister insisted people call him by the shortened version of his first name, rather than Mr Blair!
I certainly agree that standards should be maintained. I used to work in a department store where we had to wear name tags with our first name, and the first letter of our last name. So I had complete strangers calling me by my first name, which I didn't really care for. One of the district managers invited me to call him by his first name, and he had the same name as one of my sons. I told him I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, so he didn't make a thing out of it.

This seems to be one of those areas where Americans and Europeans think differently.
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  #280  
Old 04-13-2015, 08:53 PM
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"Being a grandmother is something completely different than being a mother. Because as a grandmother you don't have to worry about if they did well in school and whether they have remembered to greet people neatly. On the other hand, I'm twice as pleased when I see it, that they actually go and greet people properly. This is my grandchildren very good at, and it's lovely. It sounds like a small thing, but it's necessary that children in our family can do things like that. And I think they all masters that eventually. Some are more shy than others. I noticed that especially the two oldest did it really well when the Crown Prince family was on the Greenland trip recently, and there I was proud. A proud grandmother!"
The Greenland trip was special. Im glad the Queen was proud of her grand kids. they did so well!

Just my two cents on the formal/informal debate.
True its not the biggest issue in the world, but it is something that should be corrected when appropriate and especially if its part of your job.
In my line of work, we often correct students that address, professors/deans/presidents and vice presidents of departments by using their first names as if they were best friends or of similar age.
For me, when you go to a professional office, you should address the person in charge as Mr./ Dr. /Dean so and so .

but back to the birthday girl,
I cant wait for the 15th to see all the foreign monarchs attend
and especially for the 16th to see all 8 grandkids and the DRF family.
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