Prince Henrik Retiring from Official Duties as of January 1, 2016


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
So essentially what you're saying is that it's hard for a man to have to put up being treated as poorly as women are as a matter of course? And it's easier for women because they're used to being "reduced" to sidekicks in a marriage and the norm is for them to give things up?

If that's the case then I think there are bigger issues at stake than very privileged men getting their feelings hurt. ?



I anticipated that it would sound sexist, but, frankly, I am just being realistic. As I said, we still live in a culture where women are expected to give up things for their husbands, more so than husbands are expected to give things up for their wives, so it is not surprising that more women are in practice willing to do it than men are.

I didn't say anything about being "treated poorly" though. Honestly, I don't think any royal (male or female) is" treated poorly " (because of media/public scrutiny, media intrusion in their private lives etc etc). On the contrary, I've always been critical of royals like Prince Harry who complain about how tough their lives are and say they would quit if they could.
 
Honestly, I don't think any royal (male or female) is" treated poorly " (because of media/public scrutiny, media intrusion in their private lives etc etc). On the contrary, I've always been critical of royals like Prince Harry who complain about how tough their lives are and say they would quit if they could.
I agree, with the exception of Queen Sonja, but that has nothing to do with this thread.
 
One of the issues I have is the apanage of a retired royal be it female or male, in the case of Prince Henrik only I think it should be reduced simply because he is never going to go with out anything in his life. Let him has some spending money for the pocket yet he will never have to pay for a home, the upkeep of that home, food, utilities, medical, transportation etc., all his needs will be met on a daily basis and if he wishes to travel I am sure that will be taken care of as he will have the best and still have someone to travel with him to take care of him, his valet perhaps. He really does not need a staff for what I ask? One secretary, one valet, so what else would he need? He will most surely not need a cook or cleaner or driver or gardener for all those needs are met as according to where he is at the moment. That money/apanage could be used in some part of the royal family that is perhaps more in need of those funds then the wishes of a man whose every need will be met each second of his life. I don't mean for him to go without anything yet it would seem sensible to cut the funds as he retired and does not need them.

One thing I see about Prince Henrik that he did not do...........He did not think things through, he did not really go through the process of what would happen if he retired...a spur of the moment type of situation it seems for if he really thought it out, he would still be Prince Consort and there would be issue of his apanage at all. I see him as a very impulsive man who lives on the moment which is nice if one can always do that.
 
Maybe he has a serious illness and he needs to focus on his health; right now we don't know the whole story and royals rarely let it all out in one throw.
 
I anticipated that it would sound sexist, but, frankly, I am just being realistic. As I said, we still live in a culture where women are expected to give up things for their husbands, more so than husbands are expected to give things up for their wives, so it is not surprising that more women are in practice willing to do it than men are.

I didn't say anything about being "treated poorly" though. Honestly, I don't think any royal (male or female) is" treated poorly " (because of media/public scrutiny, media intrusion in their private lives etc etc). On the contrary, I've always been critical of royals like Prince Harry who complain about how tough their lives are and say they would quit if they could.

I meant "treated poorly" in that I see your description in your previous post as women being treated poorly relative to men.

I don't think any of the royals are treated poorly in an absolute sense. Some aspects of their lives are less than pleasant, I'm sure, but I think the royals who put a lot of effort and go above and beyond for their countries generally get a lot back in terms of respect and affection. And I would say most of them enjoy very luxurious lifestyles relative to the amount of work they do.
 
That "King-thing" is dragged into discussion again and again. Prince Henrik has made remarks about the fact that female consorts are addressed with their spouse's style and male consorts not. I do not agree with him, but undeniably he had a point. In the Netherlands Pieter van Vollenhoven made remarks about that as well: his sons are Princes, his daughters-in-law are addressed as "Princess" but he himself is Mr Van Vollenhoven. Exact the same situation Christopher O'Neill is in, by the way

That Prince Henrik made valid remarks about this schizophrenic situation is Daily Mail-lized as "I want to be King Henrik!" which is just loosing all nuance and sensationalizing it. This "controverse" should not play a role in my humble opinion.

PH has brought up the topic of him becoming a king on numerous occasions, not just a couple of times as a debate-starter.
He has also on numerous occasions expressed his misgivings about not being fully equal to his wife.
- Some might say that he in the holy name of gender equality has a point, but no matter what he cannot be equal to his wife. There can only be one head of state.
That would be the equivalent to the first lady (m/f) in a republic insisting on being equal to the president. That is not possible either.

Also PH has been told in very clear language by leading politicians that he could forget all about becoming king.
Having ignored that, his persistence in bringing up the subject annoys most people I know of

I think it's more a question of PH being a very conservative man, archaic conservative even, and also a very proud man.
In his self-perception he is the head of the family. The undisputed head of the family.
That position is very important for how he see himself and how he feels others see him.
He can, with difficulty, accept that he is subservient to his wife - at least in public. But he would much prefer to also be equal to his wife in every respect.
I think he feels that by being subservient to his wife, people see him as a lesser man.

It makes it even worse when it comes to Frederik!
Already before his retirement, Frederik as the Crown Prince has constitutional roles which means he steps in directly on behalf of the Queen.
In PH eyes, that is usurping his position. Frederik, his son, must be subservient to PH, who is the patriarch until he dies.
That Frederik steps out in front of his father is in PH's eyes a deep affront, a public humiliation - a son should not usurp his father!
And that I think is also one of the reasons why PH so eagerly sought to officially be equal to his wife.

It's a mindset that is very difficult for me to understand, it's also a mindset I don't respect.
But there are countless stories of fathers trying desperately to keep their sons down.
It's a combination of PH's upbringing and a culture clash, combined with an IMO almost incredible refusal to see things from another perspective.
I've said it before: The most important person in PH's life is himself. - And that I think is one of the keys to understanding him.

Mary will get the title of queen one day all right, but no matter what she will still be in the same position as PH, she can never be equal to her husband. The only difference between the two of them will be their titles. But PH cannot or will not see that.

Psychologically speaking it's actually very fascinating.
 
I think you've summed it all up perfectly, Muhler, and yes indeed, it is a fascinating psychological study of the 'If I Dont Get What I Want After I've Repeatedly Asked, I'm Taking My Bat and Ball And Going Home' Syndrome!'
 
:previous:

'If I Dont Get What I Want After I've Repeatedly Asked, I'm Taking My Bat and Ball And Going Home' Syndrome!'

I learn something new here all the time, I have never heard that expression before, does it mean that if I stomp my foot and don't get my own way I can pack up and go home? Since I live alone only my dog will be able to see me stomping my feet and he just barks at me .....:lol:

Prince Henrik is most certainly a fascinating case study in human psychology, some people grow with the times and develop new ideas on how to do things and some stay in the past never changing their ways which in the long run can cause heartache for the family. I bet my last ice coffee in the fridge that Prince Henrik has caused many problems in his family in regards to this issue of him wanting to be king and heart ache for his lovely wife who loves him dearly.
 
Perfectly summed up, Muhler! And I fully agree!

It's a mindset that is very difficult for me to understand too, and I don't respect it at all.
 
I bet my last ice coffee in the fridge that Prince Henrik has caused many problems in his family in regards to this issue of him wanting to be king and heart ache for his lovely wife who loves him dearly.

This is the part of this never ending saga that bothers me the most, I think. Whether it was fair or not, every time Henrik brought up the King/equal to his wife/not fair issue he knew the media would have a field day. It didn't look good for the monarchy and I'm sure was personally difficult for his wife, especially, but also their children.

Even if Henrik was completely correct , I think if you have to choose being right or doing what's best for your spouse and children, it's a no brainer you pick your family. Even more so if you're the almighty head of the family!
 
It makes it even worse when it comes to Frederik!
Already before his retirement, Frederik as the Crown Prince has constitutional roles which means he steps in directly on behalf of the Queen.
In PH eyes, that is usurping his position. Frederik, his son, must be subservient to PH, who is the patriarch until he dies.
That Frederik steps out in front of his father is in PH's eyes a deep affront, a public humiliation - a son should not usurp his father!
.

every time Henrik brought up the King/equal to his wife/not fair issue he knew the media would have a field day. It didn't look good for the monarchy and I'm sure was personally difficult for his wife, especially, but also their children.

It must be a very difficult position for Frederik to be in, and probably since he was quite young, if his own father has shown the resentment, directly or indirectly.
 
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No wonder Crown Prince Frederik had difficulties accepting his role as future King when he was younger....I am sure that his father's attitude and resentment was a large part of that. Thank God that Frederik found Mary whose strength and support has helped him. And at least Prince Christian isn't growing up with those same insecurities.
 
I do think that Henrik's attitude and the attitude of other male consorts is why ANY man should be made to think LONG AND HARD about whether or not he wants to marry a future Queen who will reign in her own right. I am disgusted that these grown men cop an attitude of resentment towards their role and it's not like Henrik didn't know the ways of royalty, being born a prince. He had no business whining and moaning and if he wants to retire, so be it.
 
Ummm...Prince Henrik was not born a prince, I think he was a count and even that title was suspect. IMO, Henrik comes across as having delusions of grandeur which became worse as he aged.
 
No wonder Crown Prince Frederik had difficulties accepting his role as future King when he was younger....I am sure that his father's attitude and resentment was a large part of that. Thank God that Frederik found Mary whose strength and support has helped him. And at least Prince Christian isn't growing up with those same insecurities.

Very good insight there Terri, :flowers:and that made me think also that over the years of hearing this from his dad that perhaps Frederik acting out has a lot to do with his father's behavior as well as effecting all members of the family.

Yes we can also see how well Prince Christian is growing up and seems to be more capable of adapting to his future role as king all because Frederik and Mary are making sure that type of behavior is not accepted in their household. I think they, Mary and Frederik are pretty good parents for they seem to have a lively bunch of children who always have smiles and get into children antics .....bet that household never sleeps.......Perhaps Prince Henrik should stick to being just a *grandpa* for that role suits him to a T.
 
PH has brought up the topic of him becoming a king on numerous occasions, not just a couple of times as a debate-starter.
He has also on numerous occasions expressed his misgivings about not being fully equal to his wife.
- Some might say that he in the holy name of gender equality has a point, but no matter what he cannot be equal to his wife. There can only be one head of state.
That would be the equivalent to the first lady (m/f) in a republic insisting on being equal to the president. That is not possible either.

Also PH has been told in very clear language by leading politicians that he could forget all about becoming king.
Having ignored that, his persistence in bringing up the subject annoys most people I know of

I think it's more a question of PH being a very conservative man, archaic conservative even, and also a very proud man.
In his self-perception he is the head of the family. The undisputed head of the family.
That position is very important for how he see himself and how he feels others see him.
He can, with difficulty, accept that he is subservient to his wife - at least in public. But he would much prefer to also be equal to his wife in every respect.
I think he feels that by being subservient to his wife, people see him as a lesser man.

It makes it even worse when it comes to Frederik!
Already before his retirement, Frederik as the Crown Prince has constitutional roles which means he steps in directly on behalf of the Queen.
In PH eyes, that is usurping his position. Frederik, his son, must be subservient to PH, who is the patriarch until he dies.
That Frederik steps out in front of his father is in PH's eyes a deep affront, a public humiliation - a son should not usurp his father!
And that I think is also one of the reasons why PH so eagerly sought to officially be equal to his wife.

It's a mindset that is very difficult for me to understand, it's also a mindset I don't respect.
But there are countless stories of fathers trying desperately to keep their sons down.
It's a combination of PH's upbringing and a culture clash, combined with an IMO almost incredible refusal to see things from another perspective.
I've said it before: The most important person in PH's life is himself. - And that I think is one of the keys to understanding him.

Mary will get the title of queen one day all right, but no matter what she will still be in the same position as PH, she can never be equal to her husband. The only difference between the two of them will be their titles. But PH cannot or will not see that.

Psychologically speaking it's actually very fascinating.

Exactly my thoughts. I disagree completely with Henri and i don't understand him at all. He knew who he choosed by free will to marry in 1967 and what the consequence's would be of that.

But i agree with you too that part of the secret to try to understand him is knowing that we are judging him from the values of today's society wich we all here on this forum takes for granted but is probably completely wrong in his world. He was born in the old School french aristocratic society where his views were completely normal and where any modern values were completely strange. To try to understand him is to try to understand his past, the society he comes from.

Margrethe seems to always have accepted that "he is like he is" and always known how to handle him" but it is a different story with Frederik. He is probably the one who have suffered the most during his whole life because of his father's regular temper tantrums and extreme conservatism. The self confident dutiful family father we see today in Frederik is far from the shy and nervous Crown Prince without self confidence we saw before. I can't and don't want to imagine what must have went trough his head that new year reception a few years back he had to emergency cover for the Queen, wich ended with Prince Henrik fleeing to France in an angry outburst and The Queen and The Prince's basically had to go to persuade him to come back... He must have been so scared when he stepped forward to greet the dignitaries on behalf of his mother, knowing that his father would explode of anger at any second over the fact that his son did that and not him.

As i said, i disagree completely with Henrik but i try to understand why he acts like he does too.
 
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Being a 'mere' consort is trying for a woman, but at least it's kind of socially accepted for the female to walk two steps behind. For a man, I think it's worse, but really, this is how it's been for centuries. I wonder if whether or not this is why Daniel was forced to wait a long time to make sure he wouldn't start openly whining about being 'just' the husband. I am certain that I am sick of men of these Queens whining about their 'role.' They knew the score before marriage and so no one has ever been justified in complaining about this.
 
In Belgium, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands we all will have Consorts Princes !
 
Exactly my thoughts. I disagree completely with Henri and i don't understand him at all. He knew who he choosed by free will to marry in 1967 and what the consequence's would be of that.

But i agree with you too that part of the secret to try to understand him is knowing that we are judging him from the values of today's society wich we all here on this forum takes for granted but is probably completely wrong in his world. He was born in the old School french aristocratic society where his views were completely normal and where any modern values were completely strange. To try to understand him is to try to understand his past, the society he comes from.

Margrethe seems to always have accepted that "he is like he is" and always known how to handle him" but it is a different story with Frederik. He is probably the one who have suffered the most during his whole life because of his father's regular temper tantrums and extreme conservatism. The self confident dutiful family father we see today in Frederik is far from the shy and nervous Crown Prince without self confidence we saw before. I can't and don't want to imagine what must have went trough his head that new year reception a few years back he had to emergency cover for the Queen, wich ended with Prince Henrik fleeing to France in an angry outburst and The Queen and The Prince's basically had to go to persuade him to come back... He must have been so scared when he stepped forward to greet the dignitaries on behalf of his mother, knowing that his father would explode of anger at any second over the fact that his son did that and not him.

As i said, i disagree completely with Henrik but i try to understand why he acts like he does too.

I think you nailed it.
 
Exactly my thoughts. I disagree completely with Henri and i don't understand him at all. He knew who he choosed by free will to marry in 1967 and what the consequence's would be of that.

But i agree with you too that part of the secret to try to understand him is knowing that we are judging him from the values of today's society wich we all here on this forum takes for granted but is probably completely wrong in his world. He was born in the old School french aristocratic society where his views were completely normal and where any modern values were completely strange. To try to understand him is to try to understand his past, the society he comes from.

Margrethe seems to always have accepted that "he is like he is" and always known how to handle him" but it is a different story with Frederik. He is probably the one who have suffered the most during his whole life because of his father's regular temper tantrums and extreme conservatism. The self confident dutiful family father we see today in Frederik is far from the shy and nervous Crown Prince without self confidence we saw before. I can't and don't want to imagine what must have went trough his head that new year reception a few years back he had to emergency cover for the Queen, wich ended with Prince Henrik fleeing to France in an angry outburst and The Queen and The Prince's basically had to go to persuade him to come back... He must have been so scared when he stepped forward to greet the dignitaries on behalf of his mother, knowing that his father would explode of anger at any second over the fact that his son did that and not him.

As i said, i disagree completely with Henrik but i try to understand why he acts like he does too.

The running off mad to France thing was a low point but I've always wondered if it might have been more of a mental health breakdown than a tantrum as such. A lot of Henrik's behaviour could be explained by depression, for example, which for many people ebbs and flows over decades, and which I could understand them wanting to keep private.

Who knows? I try to keep in mind what previous posters have said, that we don't know everything that might be going on behind closed doors. From the outside looking in it's exasperating behaviour, though.
 
When I saw this Evening the old DoE sitting next to his Queen, I was sad remembering this Consort did not even attend my King and Queen 's State Visit to his Country.
 
This has been fascinating to read & has brought up something I've always wondered about...

Now IIRC the branch of the Danish Military Fredrick joined is the Elite of the Elite, right? You either make it or you don't. No in between, no coddling & no free pass because you're the Crown Prince & future King.

I have that right?

So what if choosing that path was more Fredrick thinking if he made it through & became a Member of these Forces (that I'm horribly blanking on the name on) , then maybe he'd finally prove something to his Father?

I'm not really saying what I'd like clearly & I should know better when I'm feeling icky to try & explain something like this, but after reading the above, it got me thinking & in turn....Yeah.

It is something I have wondered about though.
 
:previous:
You also have some very good insight into this thread about Prince Henrik. I for one believe that the childhood of the family of Prince Henrik was not all peaches and creme so to speak. IMO he is of the old world where men rule the home and every one listens to him and what he says goes regardless of anyone else. Even to this day I know a friend who is so like that and so very frustrating to be around and so most times I don't now.

I think young Prince Frederik must of at times had a very difficult time with his dad and knowing something about fathers who rule the roost so to speak it emotionally and mentality damaging in many ways. So yes the very active sportsman must of taken to physical activities to release all those frustrations that he had, the Elite Forces must of been a saving grace for him and look at this wonderful young man today with a woman by his side who is there for him and the children that are always smiling and being children, he truly does not have to prove anything to anybody for he has come into his own space with quiet dignity and a force to be reckon with when he becomes king. His parents must be so proud of him for all that he has accomplished and his mother the Queen knows all that he went through to get there.
 
This has been fascinating to read & has brought up something I've always wondered about...

Now IIRC the branch of the Danish Military Fredrick joined is the Elite of the Elite, right? You either make it or you don't. No in between, no coddling & no free pass because you're the Crown Prince & future King.

I have that right?

So what if choosing that path was more Fredrick thinking if he made it through & became a Member of these Forces (that I'm horribly blanking on the name on) , then maybe he'd finally prove something to his Father?

I'm not really saying what I'd like clearly & I should know better when I'm feeling icky to try & explain something like this, but after reading the above, it got me thinking & in turn....Yeah.

It is something I have wondered about though.

You are absolutely right.

No considerations were made in regards to Frederik. As an instructor explained when he was an aspirant: If Frederik wasn't up to the task they would simply end up with an injured Crown Prince.

And I think you are right. Frederik did this to prove something. Very likely proving to his father that he is a man, but perhaps also in regards to the public image he had back then of a somewhat unserious, overgrown teenager and not particularly mature.

But I think it was marrying Mary and becoming a family man that really made a difference for Frederik. That's his anchor in life and that I think has enabled him to stand up to his father, or at least being able to brush his father's quirks off.
We must however also keep in mind that while PH sure has his faults, also in regards to his sons (perhaps in particular Frederik), he is also a beloved father and who, in his way, love his sons dearly.

PH is endlessly fascinating because he has so many contrasting facets of his personality. He is a sulking, spoiled child and an absolutely devoted grandad. He's a loving and romantic husband and very egocentric with a megalomaniac streak. He's a flamboyant eccentric and an arch conservative. - I could go on.
That is of course also why this thread is alive and well, because everyone can have an opinion about PH, and be just as right as everybody else.

-----------------------------

Polyesco has told me about an article where the court has confirmed that qualified helpers (nurses or semi-nurses) has been employed to assist PH.

Lene Balleby says: "We can confirm that recently medical-qualified (i.e. nurse or semi-nurse) has been employed to assist His Royal Highness. Out of principle we do not elaborate in regards to specific functions carried out by the various groups of employees".

"I can reject that there should be a particular medical reason other than that the Prince has turned 83 years old and may need a little help on a day to day basis".

- I talked about it with my wife, who is working within the field. She said she would be more surprised if PH did not need help by now.
That help can be anything from giving daily injections, say of insulin. To treating ulcers - which can come from diabetes, which she believe PH is likely to suffer from. Or to help with the more intimate daily grooming of PH. - He does have a history of at least getting close to falling, which would make it more difficult for him to clean himself thoroughly while showering or taking a bath in a tub.
Apart from that, such persons will keep an eye on PH's general health as a matter of routine.
These are all things an adjutant or a valet is not qualified to perform.

Not least because PH is living an active life where he is traveling, so having a nurse or nurse-assistant around makes sense.

- So yes, PH is getting older, but that is hardly something new.
 
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I think there should be a clearly defined role and duties of prince consorts and some kind of arrangement has to be developed so the prince consort is not swallowed up and reduced to an appendage of the Queen Regnant.
 
When I saw this Evening the old DoE sitting next to his Queen, I was sad remembering this Consort did not even attend my King and Queen 's State Visit to his Country.

I think your King and Queen were probably relieved.
 
There's no clearly defined role for any working royal except the monarch in any country that I'm aware of. The job of other royals is to support their monarch, whatever that means in each country.
In terms of royal consorts the role is what they make of it. To me, it's not a gender issue but a motivation issue. It's not like every female consort has made the most of her role, either, but the opportunities are there.
The Duke of Edinburgh was obviously very motivated to carve out a meaningful role for himself within the royal court. He made his share of mistakes, especially in the early years of his marriage. But he was willing to learn from his mistakes and change course when needed which is one of the key differences I see between him and Prince Henrik. Henrik was a smart, handsome, charming guy when he married Queen Margrethe. But he's pretty clearly thin skinned and maybe not so great at being able to read the national mood re: what the Danes wanted from him. It was his job to adjust to the Danes and meet their expectations, after all, not the other way around.
 
I find it interesting that he has been gone for over a year and a half.

And yet few seem to miss him. I would guess that he thought retirement would resolve some issues he had with his life. Instead, it has moved him to a back burner, in terms of the attention he has sought.

Be careful what you wish for, they always say. No winners in this story, IMO. Time will tell.
 
Actually, I think the winners are the Queen...who seems happier that she no longer has to deal with an unpredictable husband publicly....and the Crown Prince couple who have firmly established themselves as the front runners of the DRF.
Obviously, Prince Henrik had issues that finally came to a head within the family that had to be dealt with firmly and brought to a final resolution for the future good of the family and royal house. I would now say that things are as they should be.
 
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Polyesco has told me about an article where the court has confirmed that qualified helpers (nurses or semi-nurses) has been employed to assist PH.

Lene Balleby says: "We can confirm that recently medical-qualified (i.e. nurse or semi-nurse) has been employed to assist His Royal Highness. Out of principle we do not elaborate in regards to specific functions carried out by the various groups of employees".

"I can reject that there should be a particular medical reason other than that the Prince has turned 83 years old and may need a little help on a day to day basis".

- I talked about it with my wife, who is working within the field. She said she would be more surprised if PH did not need help by now.
That help can be anything from giving daily injections, say of insulin. To treating ulcers - which can come from diabetes, which she believe PH is likely to suffer from. Or to help with the more intimate daily grooming of PH. - He does have a history of at least getting close to falling, which would make it more difficult for him to clean himself thoroughly while showering or taking a bath in a tub.
Apart from that, such persons will keep an eye on PH's general health as a matter of routine.
These are all things an adjutant or a valet is not qualified to perform.

Not least because PH is living an active life where he is traveling, so having a nurse or nurse-assistant around makes sense.

- So yes, PH is getting older, but that is hardly something new.

That sounds logical. He is an old man now and his health is far from what it was before. It's easy for us to sometimes forget that all royals above 80 are not in the same health as Queen Elizabeth II and The Duke of Edinburgh.

Actually, I think the winners are the Queen...who seems happier that she no longer has to deal with an unpredictable husband publicly....and the Crown Prince couple who have firmly established themselves as the front runners of the DRF.
Obviously, Prince Henrik had issues that finally came to a head within the family that had to be dealt with firmly and brought to a final resolution for the future good of the family and royal house. I would now say that things are as they should be.

I think you are right. Some people and newspapers speculated a while ago that QMII might andicate as she would miss that PH is not there anymore. I think it looks like her burden has eased enormously and she looks like a new person with new life and spirit again. And the Crown Prince can now allow himself to take his rightful place as the nr 2 in the family, assist the Queen and prepare himself and his wife for their future roles by taking over more and more important work instead of being forced back to the backseat again by an angry, jelaous and arch-conservative father. It sounds harsh to say but i think it's true. Atleast partially true.

It might very well be that PH is or has suffered from serious deppression or other form of illness that very well can explain his behaviour. We don't know that. But as long as we don't know anything more, his complex personality never stops to fascinate me...
 
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