Prince Henrik Retiring from Official Duties as of January 1, 2016

[Duc_et_Pair]

I don't think Juan Carlos left with grace but was more forced out after his scandal with killing an elephant but this is not the thread for that

Thanks Muhler for the new poll. I too don't believe Henrik wanted the Queen to abdicate. He would explode in jealousy seeing Frederik go from #2 to #1.

I guess we will have to see how the rest of the year plays out. I do hope the Queen is getting support.

And Duc_et_Pair your comment was insulting and says alot about you than the Danes.

It is interesting that I show my displeasure about the way the Danes react on Prince Henrik. Sadly also with xenophobic tendences, mocking his French background. That is insulting, I understand?

That you in your very own post claim that "he would explode in jealousy seeing Frederik go from #2 to #1" apparently is no insult? You directly make a claim about someone whom served Queen and country for almost half a century, whom has retired in his eighties (!) and burn him down to his feet as a father in the direction of his son.

Interesting. Veeeeeery interesting.

 

[Muhler]

You are being unfair, Duc et Pair.

This is not about PH being French or xenophobia, this is about PH ruining things for himself - big time!

Let me remind you that until less than two years ago PH was actually popular, especially among the young where he was almost a cult figure.

Then he made the huge mistake of visibly embarrassing his wife on foreign TV, by talking about being king. Despite repeatedly having been told in no uncertain terms by leading politicians and the public as well, that he could forget all about it. It was not going to happen. Period!

His second huge mistake, where he again in the eyes of the public embarrassed his wife was at QMII's birthday celebrations. He was down with a flu.
Now, a flu at his age is serious, even dangerous. Yet within 48 hours of the celebrations he was strolling around in public in Italy. He couldn't even make an appearance at a window or on a balcony for five minutes to support his wife. Not even five measly minutes.
If you happen to accidentally rip off your arm on your wife's big day, you stitch it back on with safety pins and make an appearance before going to the hospital. So in the eyes of the public he deliberately embarrassed QMII. - And that's one of the mildest descriptions!
Anyone who has been down with flu know that if you are so ill you have to cancel going to such a big event, you are likely to be too washed out afterwards to even think about going abroad.

Despite the bad press he got, he went on with the king-issue.
And then without warning, it was announced that PH was to officially retire.
An official retirement is unheard for the DRF, certainly for such a senior member. And also unnecessary. He could just have said in an interview that he was feeling tired, hadn't got the strength anymore, didn't feel he could fulfill his duty satisfactory any more and it is better to let the younger take over more. And quietly cut down.
But no, he was retired literally from day to day and not even for health reasons. - So of course everybody was and is speculating what on earth is going on?!?
Not least because he has been to Italy and now three weeks in Egypt, but too frail or old to be at his wife's side. That makes people wonder.

As for PH's relationship with his son, that is one serious culture clash!
The concept of a patriarch of the family and that patriarch feeling usurped by his son is completely alien to contemporary Danish mindset.
So there was absolutely no understanding, let alone sympathy when PH went off to France and complained about being number three.
As an intelligent, sensitive man who at that time had spent 35 years in DK, he ought to have known that.
Had Frederik been my son I would have been beaming with pride! Not only that as a parent I would felt a big sense of success. I've brought up and prepared my son well. I might very well have embarrassed Frederik, but that was because I would have run around to all some 140 diplomats and told them: "That's my son. My son"!

PH admittedly has had a bad time. However, he very much asked for it. He way too often behaved as if he was the monarch and not the consort, that was especially evident in the 70's.
Now, PH's understanding of Danish is brilliant! Better than many natives. However, to this day he speaks with a dreadful accent, but more annoying he makes constant basic grammatical mistakes. It's circus-Danish.
Imagine me living in France for now 45 years and you almost have to put in subtitles to understand me, wouldn't you consider that an irritant? And wouldn't you feel I was disrespecting your language? - Keeping in mind that I speak several languages well, yet speak French as if I've only been there a couple of years.
So of course satirists pick on that and of course he is mocked for it.

To sum up: I still lean towards PH suffering from some kind of dementia, which would also explain his lack of, yes, common sense.
But the fact that I'm in serious doubt does say quite a lot about PH...

 

[Madame Verseau]

This is what I don't understand. Henrik had to have known that his title would be prince consort when Margrethe ascended to the throne before he married her. She's not an absolute monarch so she had no power to give him the king title, especially since the government and the public were saying no. (I presume the Danish parliament would have to sign off for the title upgrade for Henrik even if Margrethe proposed it.)

I was so steamed when Henrik was a no-show for the queen's birthday. I think it is tough for a crown princess who becomes queen regnant to find a consort willing to walk a pace behind her, live within the constraints of that position and work to keep her marriage solid and happy. Although the queen announced Henrik was retiring, it still looks sad that Margrethe without a partner during the New Year receptions and King Harald of Norway's Silver Jubilee.

 

[gerry]

This is what I don't understand. Henrik had to have known that his title would be prince consort when Margrethe ascended to the throne before he married her. She's not an absolute monarch so she had no power to give him the king title, especially since the government and the public were saying no. (I presume the Danish parliament would have to sign off for the title upgrade for Henrik even if Margrethe proposed it.)

I was so steamed when Henrik was a no-show for the queen's birthday. I think it is tough for a crown princess who becomes queen regnant to find a consort willing to walk a pace behind her, live within the constraints of that position and work to keep her marriage solid and happy. Although the queen announced Henrik was retiring, it still looks sad that Margrethe without a partner during the New Year receptions and King Harald of Norway's Silver Jubilee.

Muhler has summarized the situation perfectly, mange tak I think the dementia you mention is probably of a diplomatic nature Indeed, it is unfortunate that the Prince consort no longer wishes to consort, but I am certain the Queen would much rather read reports of him enjoying himself in Egypt than have to deal with his grumbling in Copenhagen. C'est la vie, n'est-ce pas?

 

[GracieGiraffe]

I do not recall this sort of nasty and vile comments on royals in comparable situations. Like Grand-Duke Jean, Queen Juliana, Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte, Queen Elizabeth (the Queen-Mother), Prince Bernhard, King Juan Carlos, etc. Sometimes the Danes can be quite nasty people. Not only in these royal matters but just in general, seeing the mood in society these days. Bleegh!

People who are not enraptured as you are with royals are not "nasty." Does the average Dane retire on full pension?? If not why should Henrik? Because he passed his rarefied genes into the Danish Royal Family?

 

[FasterB]

To sum up: I still lean towards PH suffering from some kind of dementia, which would also explain his lack of, yes, common sense.
But the fact that I'm in serious doubt does say quite a lot about PH...

Yes, dementia is also my theory. The DRF/the court don´t know when he could start a new tantrum with "I want to be king", so better let him retire and enjoy life with family members, who´s willing to look after him. A sort of of a "Royal Retiring Home"

 

[maria-olivia]

I am glad he is seing his close family.

He was alone at his sister's Funerals.

 

[Curryong]

Henrik went cycling when in Egypt, didn't he, and reputedly met the Cardinal at the largest Coptic church in Alexandria. The month before (still in Egypt) he was presenting an award at the Danish Embassy in Cairo. All of which, if he was suffering from dementia, would be difficult to achieve one would think.

 

[FasterB]

Henrik went cycling when in Egypt, didn't he, and reputedly met the Cardinal at the largest Coptic church in Alexandria. The month before (still in Egypt) he was presenting an award at the Danish Embassy in Cairo. All of which, if he was suffering from dementia, would be difficult to achieve one would think.

Dementia comes slowly. It´s not that you wake up and have dementia.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Dementia comes slowly. It´s not that you wake up and have dementia.

That's correct, but he certainly has not reached the stage where dementia is in fact slowing him down. I don't believe it's dementia at all. This is just PH being who he always was; look at how he ran off to France in a huff some years ago, this is not new behavior in the slightest. He's always been King Henrik in his own mind.

 

[FasterB]

That's correct, but he certainly has not reached the stage where dementia is in fact slowing him down. I don't believe it's dementia at all. This is just PH being who he always was; look at how he ran off to France in a huff some years ago, this is not new behavior in the slightest. He's always been King Henrik in his own mind.

No, he´s not being slowed down by dementia yet - and perhaps never will be. My father had a aunt, who suffered from dementia, her memory wasn´t good at all. In the beginning it was small things like "where are my keys/wallet/glasses?" and she kept repeating that she would never go out without her "keys, wallet and glasses". In her last 2-3 years she couldn´t even remember my father - her one and only nephew.
But boy, could she run fast She could ran away from the care takers
So perhaps PH doesn´t and will not suffer physically from dementia, "only" memory/intellectual wise. And THAT I believe is something we see with his constant "I want to be king." The court can´t control him/his disease anymore. It´s been in the pipeline with the flu at QMII´s birthday as the drop that maked the glass run over.

Perhaps a better phrase is: Senile dementia

 

[iceflower]

.

As always please remember to stay respectful towards each other and the people you discuss. The latter applies both to Prince Henrik and the Danish people. Neither do we know anything about the reasons for Prince Henrik's retiring nor should we put a whole country under general suspicion. So let us stay respectful and on topic of this thread. Thank you!

 

[carlota]

i think it's reasonable that if henrik is stepping down, he gets his allowance cut. after all, he would no longer need this money for his official appearances anymore, and most retirees take a cut in their salaries once they leave the workforce. it seems like a reasonable suggestion the danes are making.

on the other hand, i think it's harsh to say that 'henrik would die of jealousy when frederik rises to the throne'. implying that a father can be jealous of his own son is beyond ridiculous. i think no father would be unhappy to see his son succeed, even if 'success' in the case of frederik means taking a role he was destined to take from his craddle. henrik, like most parents, will certainly be happy once the moment comes and surely understands that his and frederik's role are different, despite earlier comments he made on that matter.

 

[tommy100]

Of course his allowance should be cut. If he's no longer going to do official duties why get an official allowance? If anyone else works less they get paid less so why not Henrik? Surely a 50% reduction would be fair?! (Well everyone else would agree apart from Henrik who probably sees it as compensation for not being King)

 

[Nordic]

Of course his allowance should be cut. If he's no longer going to do official duties why get an official allowance? If anyone else works less they get paid less so why not Henrik? Surely a 50% reduction would be fair?! (Well everyone else would agree apart from Henrik who probably sees it as compensation for not being King)

When PH was granted his own apanage, was the amount deducted from QM's apanage (so that the total sum was the same as before) or was his apanage an addition to the sum previously granted to the Regent couple?

 

[FasterB]

on the other hand, i think it's harsh to say that 'henrik would die of jealousy when frederik rises to the throne'. implying that a father can be jealous of his own son is beyond ridiculous. i think no father would be unhappy to see his son succeed, even if 'success' in the case of frederik means taking a role he was destined to take from his craddle. henrik, like most parents, will certainly be happy once the moment comes and surely understands that his and frederik's role are different, despite earlier comments he made on that matter.

But fact is that PH has made a tantrum about being overstepped by CPF.
I´m sure PH would be proud, but also jealous and I´m not sure that he could hide his jealousy

When PH was granted his own apanage, was the amount deducted from QM's apanage (so that the total sum was the same as before) or was his apanage an addition to the sum previously granted to the Regent couple?

I can´t remember that, so let´s wait for Muhler

 

[MidwestMom]

Cutting Henrik's apanage doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all, he will still enjoy the same lifestyle as before, he just won't be as visible. And he'll never have to worry about healthcare or having a roof over his head. If I were a Dane, I would be more upset about Alexandra's apanage than Henrik's. Yes, she should get an allowance for Nikolai and Felix, but her own should be minimal at best - just my opinion. Henrik, at least, is still a member of the royal family, Alexandra is not.

 

[FasterB]

Cutting Henrik's apanage doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all, he will still enjoy the same lifestyle as before, he just won't be as visible. And he'll never have to worry about healthcare or having a roof over his head. If I were a Dane, I would be more upset about Alexandra's apanage than Henrik's. Yes, she should get an allowance for Nikolai and Felix, but her own should be minimal at best - just my opinion. Henrik, at least, is still a member of the royal family, Alexandra is not.

I think it´s a mix of these two reasons: Countess Alexandra still getting apanage for doing nothing and now also PH. But I agree it would be reasonable if the apanage for Countess Alexandra was to stop, when Prince Felix turns 18.

The apanage for PH should go (back?) to the Queen and/or CPF and CPssM, since they are the ones taking on the jobs for PH

 

[Muhler]

I can´t remember that, so let´s wait for Muhler

Originally QMII got the entire apanage and that also covered expenses for PH. I.e. a secretary, a valet, transportation and clothing. There is after all a limit to how big a personal staff he needs.
The adjutant and drivers were covered either by the court or the military.

Anyway, PH complained that he found it bit humiliating to have to go and ask his wife for money, whenever it was needed. He preferred his own funds. Okay, fair enough, so it was decided that 10 % of the total apanage would be earmarked for PH and from that he could pay whatever expenses he had and still has.
It's the same arrangement that exists for Mary BTW.

Whether PH let some of that money go back to the general upkeep of the court, or whether it is decided that he foots the bill for say paying the cleaners or whether he keeps the surplus, that's anyone's guess.

With now some 110 people being employed by the DRF (*), that would mean that PH would have a personal staff of no less then 11 employees and that I can't imagine. So some sort of joggling with the money must take place, otherwise I'd say PH is the most generously paid member of the DRF, QMII included!

(*) The personal staff of M&F and J&M excluded.

 

[FasterB]

So the goverment could decide to cancel the earmarked apanage? But they won´t. That should come from QMII or PH himself - and I don´t see that happen either ...

 

[Muhler]

The government is not going to cut PH's apanage by say 50%. That is simply not going to happen.
But the DRF might be "advised" to cut his apanage by 50% or allocate the money from PH to the rest of the DRF, after all they are standing in for PH.

It depends I guess. If PH is in the tantrum-mode, he may go ballistic if he see his allowance being halved - with all the family-trouble that ca lead to.
If PH's health is deteriorating, then the money may go to nurses keeping an eye on him 24/7. And that's expensive!

 

[tommy100]

Exactly, the whole issues could be sorted by saying that from now on 10% of what the Queen gets won't be earmarked for Henrik specifically. It wouldn't change the amount the Queen gets but just mean Henrik isn't entitled officially to 10% of it now he has given up his official role.

 

[FasterB]

Yes, tommy100, that was what I tried to say Thank you for saying it in a better way I must come here more often to kkep my English up to date

 

[Nordic]

Originally QMII got the entire apanage and that also covered expenses for PH. I.e. a secretary, a valet, transportation and clothing. There is after all a limit to how big a personal staff he needs.
The adjutant and drivers were covered either by the court or the military.

Anyway, PH complained that he found it bit humiliating to have to go and ask his wife for money, whenever it was needed. He preferred his own funds. Okay, fair enough, so it was decided that 10 % of the total apanage would be earmarked for PH and from that he could pay whatever expenses he had and still has./QUOTE]

Thank you. I had a vague recollection that I knew this.

If PH hadn't gotten his earmarked apanage, the money would have gone to QM anyway. That's why I think his apanage, or part of it, could go back to the QM, but not to the Danish "coffer".

 

[camelot23ca]

This situation has has certainly brought to the forefront various attitudes towards the concept of royalty, and by that I mean different attitudes within the DRF itself. Queen Margrethe, in her actions and words over the years, clearly thinks being royal is a fundamental part of who she is, and will be until she dies. Henrik, OTOH, seems to feel being royal is something he does - a job, the way other people are teachers or lawyers or police officers, etc.

The nice part about a job is that technically you can quit whenever you want, (especially if you're wealthy and don't have to worry about keeping a roof over your head), and when you get older you can retire and leave it all behind. The not so great part about a job is that if you stop doing it for whatever reason you generally stop getting paid!

I've always admired Queen Margrethe's work ethic and devotion to her role. I also think she's a smart, practical woman who realizes her family has a pretty nice set up for themselves because of an understanding between the royals and the Danes regarding how royalty behaves. Hopefully Frederik and Mary have a similar understanding and pass it down to Christian.

 

[Roslyn]

So perhaps PH doesn´t and will not suffer physically from dementia, "only" memory/intellectual wise. And THAT I believe is something we see with his constant "I want to be king." The court can´t control him/his disease anymore. It´s been in the pipeline with the flu at QMII´s birthday as the drop that maked the glass run over.

Perhaps a better phrase is: Senile dementia

But dementia is a physical condition. It is a progressive deterioration of the brain and it affects memory, thinking, language, understanding, and judgment. Eventually it affects movement and the ability to speak and swallow. If the person lives long enough, the deterioration in brain function will eventually cause their body to stop working completely. But it can take over ten years to reach that stage.

And it can take a long time to diagnose because in the early stages the afflicted person's behaviour can change very slowly, and the symptoms can be consistent with a number of things. In the early to moderate stages the person can live a relatively normal life as long as they have people around to watch them constantly, and indeed they can take great pleasure in life. It's only when they are left on their own that they get into trouble because, for example, they have forgotten how to make a cup of tea. Apparently that simple task actually involves several brain processes, and if the brain isn't working they way it should, those processes are interrupted and the afflicted individual will stand in the kitchen staring at the cupboards having no idea what to do next. And they might call their house a boat. But they are friendly and happy and can hold a conversation and enjoy their meals someone else cooks for them. And, of course, there is the safety issue of hotplates and gas being left on, etc.

People with moderate stage dementia can even function in an ostensibly normal manner even though they have forgotten precisely who you are. Not what your name is, just who you are in relation to them. You can, for example, take them out to an agricultural show and be sitting with them watching the woodchopping and having an ostensibly normal conversation with them and then they suddenly drop a clanger like, "That old woman I'm living with, that I call Mum, why does she have our mother's dressing table?" And they are deadly serious, and you are left feeling very unsettled for a few days, until they say or do something that unsettles you even more. Which they will, you can bet on that.

So I have no trouble believing that Henrik could - I stress "could", since we don't know - have early stage dementia and still be able to enjoy travel very much, as long as he has people with him who are familiar to him and who can keep an eye on him and make sure he has what he needs, when he needs it.

And if he does indeed have this condition, it was best that he retire now. For everyone's sake. If. There are a lot of ifs.

 

[royal rob]

I don't know but I'm starting to think he's just a grumpy old man.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[King of the Jungle]

Out of respect for the long time dedication to his role and Henrik's age, I think the on going apanage should be discussed at the hightest level - affording the most dignity.
There should not be ambiguity.
A royal, like any other person, should be able to retire at old age with full expectation that their independent financial benefit is reasonable.
Their position needs to be stated, known and secure. Differing situations would mean different outcomes of course and they should be tabulated. Suspicion or judgement of the older person could be allayed.
No one knows with what hand one will be dealt at old age but privacy, freedom and dignity should be paramount.

 

[HRHHermione]

A royal, like any other person, should be able to retire at old age with full expectation that their independent financial benefit is reasonable.
.

Prince Henrik is hardly a struggling senior. He'll live in luxury for the remainder of his life, but it's not appropriate for him to continue to receive taxpayer funded money when he no longer intends to work on behalf of Denmark.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Prince Henrik is hardly a struggling senior. He'll live in luxury for the remainder of his life, but it's not appropriate for him to continue to receive taxpayer funded money when he no longer intends to work on behalf of Denmark.

I think it depends on the "HOW" its done. If PH was Prince Philip, nobody would even think about cutting his apanage, even at the age of 80, when he cites old age, being tired etc etc for the reason to quit. Everybody understands and its ok to have an old man keep his "pension".

But Henrik didn't do that. He retired or was retired by his wife for unspecified reasons and is travelling the world now on never ending vacation. That is not supposed to be the attitude of a consort in the concept of royalty where the key word is "duty". Henrik has been very non-sensitive all his life towards issues like this and that is why I think it is fair to have a discussion about his apanage. Shoving his attitude into peoples faces is wrong and does harm to the monarchy. I hope those who have advised or been advised on Henrik to retire will again advise or be advise to cut his apanage to a reasonable amount.