Prince Henrik Retiring from Official Duties as of January 1, 2016

[Hans-Rickard]

Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?

According to protocol when Margrethe and Henrik is at an official event, Henrik has the status of a Queen Consort as they are married and thus takes precedence over everyone except the Queen. If Margrethe is not there but Henrik and Frederik is, then Frederik as 1:st in line to the throne takes precedence. That was what caused Henrik to flee from Denmark in anger and dissapointment in 2002. He felt that he had to be his sons guest in his own house.

If Margrethe is unable to attend next year, Henrik will likely also be absent.

It's a question of protocol. That's why you'll never see Queen Silvia handle out the Nobel prices here in Sweden for example (although i think she would walk before Victoria in the procession). If the King can't attend, Victoria will take over his duties.

Don't think Silvia would flee to their summer house in France in anger and dissapointment over Such a thing �� haha

 

[grevinnan]

Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?

If the Queen is not available for an official event the regent at the moment would be the host/ess. If the event is important one would expect the Crown Prince to be in attendance and hosting. There was the famous incident a few years back when (according to the press) the Queen was not able to attend and the Crown Prince as the royal in the in line of succession and consequently the host. Prince Henrik was very put out by being "stepped over" and threw a fit and left the country. The comment in an earlier post of her traveling to another country most likely referred to this incident.

Prince Henrik may have been a great spouse and support for the Queen but he certainly has not added a positive image to the royal family. If his public persona is any indication, the comment about being "high maintenance" may be close to the truth.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Don't think Silvia would flee to their summer house in France in anger and dissapointment over Such a thing �� haha

Maybe because she's not so sure that the King will travel after her to persuade her to get back. I don't think every monarch will do what Margrethe did, travel to Cayx and appease her husband's ego.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Maybe because she's not so sure that the King will travel after her to persuade her to get back. I don't think every monarch will do what Margrethe did, travel to Cayx and appease her husband's ego.

But if there is any monarch in the world that would do that i am sure it is Carl Gustaf. He has stated many times during the years how much he loves her and how lonely he feels when he is alone at home.

And after all they have been trough during the recent years and still seems to be as strong couple as ever, i can't think of anything else than that they must be madly in love with each other. Just like Margrethe and Henrik.

 

[Muhler]

Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?

It's a question of whether it's a state affair of a family affair..

In family affairs PH will remain number two, until the second Frederik becomes king. Then he becomes number three - after Mary.

In state affairs PH has no place, and nor has Mary for that matter, unless she is appointed Rigsforstander at some point.

It would be more correct (and simpler) to say that PH is currently number 1½, Mary is number 2½ and our Marie is number 3½.
Because in state affairs the spouse get the similar status as the one in the line of succession they are married to - at any given point. I.e. When Frederik is Regent Mary moves up to 1½, when QMII is in full working order, Mary moves down to 2½.

A really diabolic situation would be if M&F were joined by PH on an official visit abroad, because Frederik would act on behalf of QMII, and Mary has at any time similar status as her husband, soooo... If PH and Mary went solo on the visit, Mary would be the one to welcome first... But I need a couple of aspirins to think that thought to the end.

I have a question in that respect - does PH still receive a salary, like Juan Carlos, and if so, do the Danes think that this ok although he doesnt work any longer?

I can't imagine that Henrik will vanish unter the radar, I think as soon as he starts living the sweet life the press will happily cover his activities.

I think you nailed it!

There are already many people saying: Fair enough that PH retires. But why then should he retain his apanage that is supposed to cover the expenses of a full-time working royal?
I think people could accept that say half his apanage was redistributed to QMII and M&F, since they are going to cover him.
But PH receiving full apanage and then being seen living the happy life as a retiree. That's not easy to defend!
It would be another matter if he was soon to require 24/7 care.

 

[polyesco]

Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?

Imo, we already see Frederik being number 2.
During official or state visits to Denmark, we have seen Frederik playing host to the president or head if state in the majority of events. Besides the receptions and dinners, where the Queen was host. Frederik was the one with the visiting guest.
In other monarchies , for example Norway and Sweden it's still the King and Queen but I've noticed in Denmark Frederik with Mary taking over,
Just my observation.

Seeing Henrik in Naples, I'll say he looks in good health so maybe it was a suggested retirement for him

 

[Roslyn]

It's been interesting reading people's comments on the issue of who is 2IC now. I would have thought there would be no doubt that in purely private and family matters, Henrik would be joint No. 1 rather than No. 2, but that in state/official matters, it would be Margrethe 1, Frederik 2. Henrik has no official position in state matters, so he could never be No. 2 at that level. As consort he was only Margrethe's "plus 1", deriving his status solely from his relationship to her, and in her absence he had no status. (Which is what I think he was bleating about for so many years.) So Frederik would host any state events in his mother's absence, however he would not be marching into his parents' home and usurping his father's role as host of any private events should Margrethe not be in attendance.

And let's just hope that Henrik and Mary never are charged with the task of attending any function together without their spouses present. Or at least make sure there is full video coverage of it so we can all enjoy it.

 

[Princess of Durham]

Well, obviously not knowing PH, but what I have read I think I would say that he is/was high maintenance emotionally rather than financially (though possibly that as well).

 

[grevinnan]

I think you nailed it!

There are already many people saying: Fair enough that PH retires. But why then should he retain his apanage that is supposed to cover the expenses of a full-time working royal?
I think people could accept that say half his apanage was redistributed to QMII and M&F, since they are going to cover him.
But PH receiving full apanage and then being seen living the happy life as a retiree. That's not easy to defend!
It would be another matter if he was soon to require 24/7 care.

Perhaps Denmark will eventually use the same system for apanage that Sweden does. The King gets a certain amount and out of these funds the whole family shares depending on needs as the King and his staff decides.

The idea that individual people are paid separately does not make sense. The Queen is the head of the royal family and it is her job that the rest of the family carries out. Even if they are carving out their own "careers" without the Queen as the royal regent there would not be a need for them.

 

[Muhler]

I have a feeling that the reason why the apanage is individual is to avoid family feuds over who gets how much. - Especially if the king has a "very close and loving relationship with money" and as such is reluctant to part with them...

And also to avoid the crown prince to have to come "begging" for more funds. - Not least of the king and the crown prince has a bad relationship.

And we must not forget the PH complained long and hard about having to "ask his wife for money".

- Who knows? It might be contagious. One day we may see Daniel tear off his tie and run off to Öland and complain that he always has to ask Victoria for money whenever he wish to buy a new suit. - To supplement his other 107 identical suits. (Sorry, couldn't resist ).

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...]
The idea that individual people are paid separately does not make sense. The Queen is the head of the royal family and it is her job that the rest of the family carries out. Even if they are carving out their own "careers" without the Queen as the royal regent there would not be a need for them.

The fact that Prince Henrik's namesake and colleague Henrich Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (by marriage Prince of the Netherlands) had to rely on his dominating spouse, even for just buying things or having pocket money, fuelled to the feeling of what he once stated with the quote: "Ich bin nur das Gepäck" ("I am just the luggage").

When the idea is that core members of the Royal House must be able to exploit their talents and personalities, and at the same time it is seen as "undesirable" that there is a dependency on third parties (being paid by a company, for an example) then the best solution is to give each the most core royals (the present, the former and the future Sovereign, and their spouses) an individual income plus a budget for costs and staffing.

When Prince Henrik's colleague Prince Claus of the Netherlands became ill and largely disappeared from the royal scène between 1982 and 2004, there were no any calls to end his income. This income for a Consort to the King was (and is) fixed by law and is no "prestation contract". After all: these core royals do not get allowances or benefits for unemployment, sick leave, disabilities, they even do not get a pension.

Imagine that Henrik, now half a century married to Margrethe, had to hold his hand up by his wife, all the time. And when he says: "No way! I want to earn my own income! I search for a position, for an example in a Board of a company!" then the reaction is: "No, it is undesirable that the Consort of Her Majesty The Queen is in a dependent relationship to third parties", meaning that he indeed must feel like a prisoner in a golden cage. Solution: give the Consort his/her independent role and provide means and staffing to make this possible.

 

[Muhler]

The DK press follow PH these days, now that he has retired, and this article would normally belong in another thread but because of one particular detail, I've decided to put it here.
Henrik blev tituleret som konge - og bestilte mærkværdig figur af sig selv - Royale | www.bt.dk

PH visited the shop of artisan and artist Marco Giuseppe Ferrigno, in Naples.
Here he commissioned a figure of himself carved in wood, where he is a shepherd. The figure will be 40 centimeters high.
He also bought a number of figures for a nativity scene - they are around 20 cm high.

Ferrigno says about PH: "He was very open, very democratic in the best definition of the word. And we were all to take pictures with him. He seems like a very kind/friendly person. When you talk about regents, you often thing they are reserved but he was very amiable".

PH was presented and apparently addressed as king. Because Ferrigno afterwards wrote on Facebook that he had been visited by the Danish king.

Ferrigno explains: "It was the interpreter who said it. I didn't know his title was Prince".

 

[Rudolph]

Danish king? Oh oh. He's not retiring without a fight

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The DK press follow PH these days, now that he has retired, and this article would normally belong in another thread but because of one particular detail, I've decided to put it here.
Henrik blev tituleret som konge - og bestilte mærkværdig figur af sig selv - Royale | www.bt.dk

PH visited the shop of artisan and artist Marco Giuseppe Ferrigno, in Naples.
Here he commissioned a figure of himself carved in wood, where he is a shepherd. The figure will be 40 centimeters high.
He also bought a number of figures for a nativity scene - they are around 20 cm high.

Ferrigno says about PH: "He was very open, very democratic in the best definition of the word. And we were all to take pictures with him. He seems like a very kind/friendly person. When you talk about regents, you often thing they are reserved but he was very amiable".

PH was presented and apparently addressed as king. Because Ferrigno afterwards wrote on Facebook that he had been visited by the Danish king.

Ferrigno explains: "It was the interpreter who said it. I didn't know his title was Prince".

at least he managed to convince his interpreter that he is a King! And there is a world outside Denmark that will believe it!!

 

[Terri Terri]

What absolute nonsense!!! "King" Henrik is really living in a dream world or a parallel universe of his own making! More and more, I am beginning to think that his "retirement" was because he did not get his own way of becoming King Consort!!! Maybe the Queen and the Government put their foots down and told him that it would never happen!!

Muhler...Prince Henrik does not look frail and sick to me!!! Over the next months, we shall surely see Prince Henrik enjoying himself travelling all over the world and still getting his Danish state income as if he is still a full time working royal!

I predict that Prince Henrik will face more criticism if this continues.

Right now, the Danish taxpayer is supporting an ex-princess and a prince consort who has retired, appears healthy but will still get his full apanage. I wonder if the Danish taxpayer will remain as supportive of the monarchy as they have been if this continues.

 

[Lee-Z]

Let's not jump to conclusions too quickly... bad health doesn't necessarily have to mean physical health (even though officially this might not be said)

 

[Muhler]

Or going loco...

My pet-theory at present is still a kind of dementia.

The interesting thing is what would happen should it ever become necessary to restrict PH's movements.
Normally that requires a court ruling saying that so and so is no longer able to care for himself and that's a big step! (Even residents from retirement homes running away cannot be held back physically. That's considered violence). Then a legal guardian is appointed.
But the DRF has legal immunity and if any sanctions needs to be taken against a member of the DRF, like declaring them legally unable to look after themselves, it is actually only the Monarch who can authorize it. And it's only the Monarch who authorize a member of the DRF being locked up and if need be physically restrained from leaving say Fredensborg Palace.
I guess QMII would act on advice from doctors but it will be QMII alone who can authorize the setting up a makeshift ward at Fredensborg where PH can live the rest of his life. Once he becomes too erratic in his behavior to be allowed to run around lose.
- Presuming of course that I'm right in my little theory.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[....]
Right now, the Danish taxpayer is supporting an ex-princess and a prince consort who has retired, appears healthy but will still get his full apanage. I wonder if the Danish taxpayer will remain as supportive of the monarchy as they have been if this continues.

Note that the present, the future and the former King and their spouses (widows/widowers) are denied the freedom any Dane has: to earn their own living. In all monarchies it is considered undesirable when the present, the future and the former King and their spouses (widows/widowers) are in a dependant relation to third parties.

So there is no chance that Prince Henrik could have a job at Bang & Olufsen or that Crown Prince Frederik earns a salary from Maersk. Also in contrary to every Dane these royals do not have the right on income or benefits on ground of unemployment, sick leave, pregnancy leave, disabilities or even have the right on a pension.

In return for this quite severe denial of the freedom of these individuals, the State grants an apanage which enables them to live according their royal status and rank, as might be expected from a royal family in Europe's oldest monarchy and without any dependance on third parties. That is the "contract" between the State of Denmark and the family Slesvig-Holsten-Sønderborg-Glücksborg. Prince Henrik, now into his eighties (!), slows down. That is more than 15 years later than the current official age of retirement which is in force in Danmark...

 

[Terri Terri]

I take your point in regards to Prince Henrik. At least he has retired at 81 years old! Countess Alexandra on the other hand... is another matter! But that is another topic and is not relevant to this matter regarding Prince Henrik's retirement.

 

[grevinnan]

I have a feeling that the reason why the apanage is individual is to avoid family feuds over who gets how much. - Especially if the king has a "very close and loving relationship with money" and as such is reluctant to part with them...

And also to avoid the crown prince to have to come "begging" for more funds. - Not least of the king and the crown prince has a bad relationship.

And we must not forget the PH complained long and hard about having to "ask his wife for money".

- Who knows? It might be contagious. One day we may see Daniel tear off his tie and run off to Öland and complain that he always has to ask Victoria for money whenever he wish to buy a new suit. - To supplement his other 107 identical suits. (Sorry, couldn't resist ).

Next time please resist. Juvenile type comments do not usually belong on sites where presumably adults discuss matters of interest.

 

[gerry]

The DK press follow PH these days, now that he has retired, and this article would normally belong in another thread but because of one particular detail, I've decided to put it here.
Henrik blev tituleret som konge - og bestilte mærkværdig figur af sig selv - Royale | www.bt.dk

PH visited the shop of artisan and artist Marco Giuseppe Ferrigno, in Naples.
Here he commissioned a figure of himself carved in wood, where he is a shepherd. The figure will be 40 centimeters high.
He also bought a number of figures for a nativity scene - they are around 20 cm high.

Ferrigno says about PH: "He was very open, very democratic in the best definition of the word. And we were all to take pictures with him. He seems like a very kind/friendly person. When you talk about regents, you often thing they are reserved but he was very amiable".

PH was presented and apparently addressed as king. Because Ferrigno afterwards wrote on Facebook that he had been visited by the Danish king.

Ferrigno explains: "It was the interpreter who said it. I didn't know his title was Prince".

Thank you, as always Muhler, for this gem. A very happy new Year indeed to you and yours, as I contemplate the ramifications of HRH the Prince Consort's visit to Naples. The Prince visited the atelier of one of the most famous of Neapolitan carvers of 'santons' or nativity scenes. He ordered a shepherd in his own image, twice as high as the other shepherds he purchased! One can only imagine what the 'crèche' at Marselisborg (or at Cayx, if he retires to France and summons the family there) at Christmas will look like next year. This however raises an even more interesting question: does the depiction of the Nativity in its traditional 'stable at Bethlehem' format have a place in Lutheran Danish households?

 

[GömdNatt]

I have a feeling that the reason why the apanage is individual is to avoid family feuds over who gets how much. - Especially if the king has a "very close and loving relationship with money" and as such is reluctant to part with them...

And also to avoid the crown prince to have to come "begging" for more funds. - Not least of the king and the crown prince has a bad relationship.

And we must not forget the PH complained long and hard about having to "ask his wife for money".

- Who knows? It might be contagious. One day we may see Daniel tear off his tie and run off to Öland and complain that he always has to ask Victoria for money whenever he wish to buy a new suit. - To supplement his other 107 identical suits. (Sorry, couldn't resist ).

Oh I do hope Daniel never falls down this silly hole that some of the consorts have.

After this story in Naples, my opinion that Henrik has "retired" because he's upset is even stronger. I would be shocked if we find out this year that he's sick since he just appears to be such a whiny little man right now. "King" Henrik.

Good lord.

(and its clear some of us have differing opinions on what's juvenile. I found it funny, lol)

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

After this story in Naples, my opinion that Henrik has "retired" because he's upset is even stronger. I would be shocked if we find out this year that he's sick since he just appears to be such a whiny little man right now. "King" Henrik.

Good lord.

Me too. Commissioning a statue of yourself as shepherd just fits the ego theory.

 

[Terri Terri]

(and its clear some of us have differing opinions on what's juvenile. I found it funny, lol)

I found it funny too so I didn't see what was the problem with Muhler's comments Muhler's style of comments are the same he has been making for years and I for one value his opinions and point of view immensely! He does an invaluable service translating for us non-Danes and giving us insights on Danish current affairs, history and lifestyle!!

Thank you very much for making me laugh Muhler and please continue!!!! I for one do not find your comments juvenile in the least!!!!

 

[Roslyn]

I found it funny too so I didn't see what was the problem with Muhler's comments Muhler's style of comments are the same he has been making for years and I for one value his opinions and point of view immensely! He does an invaluable service translating for us non-Danes and giving us insights on Danish current affairs, history and lifestyle!!

Thank you very much for making me laugh Muhler and please continue!!!! I for one do not find your comments juvenile in the least!!!!

I totally agree. I think there's a place for slightly silly humour in discussions about serious issues, especially in long posts, and so many of Muhler's posts are long because he is a veritable fount of relevant and interesting information. A joke lightens the tone and makes us laugh, and sharing jokes serves to help us bond as a community.

 

[Muhler]

Okay...

First, I joke because this is a very serious subject!
Whether PH is suffering from yet another tantrum or from cognitive deterioration it's serious. Especially for the DRF.
So what should we do? Cry? *****foot? Be serious? - Life would be unbearable so why not take a lightheaded approach from time to time? It won't make a difference anyway to PH. His condition or tantrum is unlikely to improve.

I happened to use Daniel as a subject, because there are not that many future prince consorts around. A man I believe is instrumental to saving the SRF for the next generation.
Victoria will maintain the Swedish monarchy for another generation - not least because of Daniel's support.
Don't know about you Grevinnan, but I never ever make fun of or have fun with people I don't like.

Back to topic.

Making a shepherd of himself in double size and placing it in a nativity scene, that would be a typical PH! That's his sense of humor, so I don't think we should put too much into that one.

And I honestly don't know if nativity scenes is a part of the Lutheran tradition. It's certainly not a common decoration in Danish homes.
I refer your question to our resident theologian, FasterB.

 

[Roslyn]

Or going loco...

My pet-theory at present is still a kind of dementia.

The interesting thing is what would happen should it ever become necessary to restrict PH's movements. (Snip)

It does sound suspiciously like the early stages of dementia and, if it is, the time will come when his movements will have to be restricted.

My brother had a form of dementia which started affecting his behaviour in his early 50s and progressed, as it does, over the years until he was confined to a nursing home and eventually died because of it. My mother and I became responsible for his care in one way or the other. We found the most difficult stage, for him as well as for us, was the early stage where he was still able to handle most of the tasks of everyday life, and travel on his own, and was aware that there was something wrong with him but not knowing what it was, because without a diagnosis and a reason to restrict the person's activity, all you can do is worry. This stage can last for some years, and if this is indeed what is happening to Henrik, I am very sorry for him, and for Margrethe and the rest of his family, because I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy, but it is something that can hit any one of us. Only time will tell if this is what is the cause of Henrik's odd behaviour.

 

[Muhler]

Sorry to hear about your brother, Roslyn.

My wife works professionally with people suffering from the various forms of dementia and we have wondered what will happen to PH, should he be suffering from dementia.

I can't help wondering whether there are quietly being set up plans for making a ward in one of the palaces.
The most logic would be Fredensborg. Not so many stairs that needs to be secured and it's easier to wheel a bed and a wheelchair around. It's quieter and should he run away, it will be easier and less embarrassing to rein him in at Fredensborg.
Marselisborg is also an option, because it's walled in and close to one of the most modern hospitals in DK.

Cayz could also be an option, but less likely IMO as it's far away from everything.

Also, as his condition deteriorates it will be likely that QMII will be around him daily, probably most of the time and that means that M&F in particular will take over even more.

However, he is 81 and overweight. If he is lucky he will die before he deteriorate to such an extent that he needs care 24/7 - and his grandchildren will only remember him as a loving and wacky grandpapa.
That would be a good way to go IMO.

 

[MARG]

I too hope he does not have Alzheimer's or Dementia. They are cruel conditions that rob people of their memory and eventually their dignity. My mother has been in secure care for nine years and seeing her and knowing while she is smiling at me she hasn't a clue who I am, is heartbreaking.

The care of people with such conditions is definitely a calling and my mother's carers are remarkable people with gentle hearts and hands. But I still "miss" my mother.

For those reasons I hope that PH is just happily eccentric.

 

[MidwestMom]

It's interesting that Prince Daniel should be mentioned. He is going to set a standard for prince consorts in the future. The heirs of Belgium, Spain, The Netherlands, Norway and Japan are all female. Although Japan will have to change their constitution for females to inherit the throne. Daniel and these future consorts are of a different generation - they have been raised in the era of equal rights for women. I have long thought that at least some of PH's issues are because men of his generation were the head of the household. My late mother-in-law certainly thought so - ''the man should be the boss!'' It will be interesting to see how PH is doing a year from now.