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  #101  
Old 01-01-2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
But if illness is the reason, why not be open about it? I mean if this illness is so grave that the retirement is enforced (eg aggressive cancer, dementia) it will show within next year anyway and people might think, ok, but why didn't they say so?
Yes.

I don't believe in the cancer theory anymore.
If he is terminally ill, they could merely say that he is ill and won't appear in public for some time...

Dementia is another thing.
PH may even have wished that the official explanation is retirement, rather than Alzheimer or something similar. He's a very proud man and of an older generation. He may see it as a shame that his mind is deteriorating. Perhaps he is struggling with acknowledging it himself.

But if it's not cancer or dementia, why retire officially?
And if he can't manage the travels anymore, why not say so? - PH has not in the past been ashamed about telling how ill he feels. (It's a favorite topic about many people BTW. If you want to please someone just tell them they look a bit under the weather. Their faces brighten up. )
And that leads to the third assumption: That he has gone into retirement in protest of not becoming king.
If that is the case and he is otherwise seen hopping merrily around at Cayz, or elsewhere in the world, it will be destructive for his image. - But less embarrassing for the DRF as a whole than if he stayed on...
Because if he is still of sound mind, he cannot even think about becoming king, now that he has retired. Because the public conclusion will immediately be that he was "retired out" by QMII. Sacked if you will. (QMII may love him dearly, but she's also the Monarch).

That's why the next few months will be most interesting.
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  #102  
Old 01-01-2016, 10:36 AM
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I have to confess, the first thought that struck me when I watched the speech last night, was that this was a discreet way for a monarch to separate. Instead of living apart like King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, or Princess Birgitta of Sweden and Prince Johann Georg of Hohenzollern, it might just be that the Queen has made it clear to her ageing husband, who might have wanted their children to take over, that she will not abdicate, that she is not ready to reduce her own role or workload, and that he made the choice to take a step away from the 'family firm', and spend his final years doing what he wants.

Monarchs don't really do divorce. They do however sometimes adjust their working conditions to fit the personal troubles or decisions made.

This is however, just a speculation, and despite it being my initial thought during the speech, I'm not sure I believe it myself.
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  #103  
Old 01-01-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
But if illness is the reason, why not be open about it? I mean if this illness is so grave that the retirement is enforced (eg aggressive cancer, dementia) it will show within next year anyway and people might think, ok, but why didn't they say so?
When Princess Juliana of the Netherlands retired completely from the royal scène in 1999, it was also not revealed that she was suffering or something like that. Just her announcement and that was it.

Two years later her husband Prince Bernhard remarked in an interview: "My wife's memory is, you can say: zero. Sometimes she does not recognize people, and the family". The Court felt enforced to declare that the Princess was not suffering Alzheimer's Disease to stop speculation in media. Until then the information was no more than: "the Princess has retreated more and more in her own world". Source

I think the health of Prince Henrik is primarily considered a private matter. After all he is everything but the head of state. He is "just" the spouse, of course. When Queen Margrethe would suffer something, we probably would see official bulletins on her health.
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  #104  
Old 01-01-2016, 11:12 AM
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I also think that Prince Henrik must be sick.
Neither the Duke of Edinburgh withdrew from public life and already has more than 90 years, so there is no reason for infirm Prince Henrik do this, unless tena serious health problems.
If health reasons was the main reason behind his retirement, why would the court say that he's keeping his patronages and some other official duties?

Count me into the group who thinks that the main reason for this is that he's simply not interested in the job anymore, as shown by his (imo) childish behavior the last year. His health may also not be the best - and perhaps also in decline - but that doesn't mean that health reasons are the primary reason for his retirement.
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  #105  
Old 01-01-2016, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan;1852211I
Ido notice however, that in the Danish papers today it is quite clear that there are NO indications of health reasons behind this decision
Well, giving physical illness as a reason would be the 'easy' way out, wouldn't it?! However I'm not sure that the Royal Court would announce such a thing whereas I'm convinced that they'd never publish anything about a RF member sufffering from dementia or the like.

I read somewhere in a book on the DRF the, title of which I've forgotten - (maybe a sign of pre dementia?) that they didn't like to talk about illnesses; they are considered being something very private. If I remember correctly, Prince Richard (Berleburg) said something to the same effect when he had cancer some years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan;1852211I
One can repeat the argument over and over, that he is old. That in general, is not a factor that is relevant in Nordic monarchies. Age sometimes requires different schedules, and reduced workloads, but it is not a part of our custom to retire, or abdicate, from royal duties. They will simply be scaled to what is manageable..
An important point, glad you mentioned it!

viv
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  #106  
Old 01-01-2016, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
With regards to the recent abdications, yes, some of them were premature and for all intents and purposes, wrong. For Albert of the Belgians to retire, draw a salary and do nothing, is not a good way for a King to behave, in my book. Grand Duke Jean could had been on the Luxembourg throne for decades, and have his son act as regent now that his age is great and health is weak. The Popes have always been old, and fairly frail, at the end. Benedictus would not be unique in that regard. Have we already forgotten John Paul? Beatrix abdicating is just silly to me. The woman is still in great health and could had done the job for a lot longer, but it's just how it's done in the Netherlands. One can almost hear Elizabeth II sigh, and say: 'Typical Dutch'. The only recent abdication that I support, is the one of Juan Carlos. For Spain, it was a matter of safeguarding the throne, and in such a case, abdications can, and sometimes should, happen.

King Albert's abdication in Belgium seems to me to have had the same motivation as King Juan Carlos' abdication in Spain, i.e. Albert probably felt that leaving the throne to Philippe would strengthen the position of the Belgian monarchy, which proved to be definitely true in hindsight. I agree with you though on Beatrix stepping down for no apparent reason.
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  #107  
Old 01-01-2016, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
King Albert's abdication in Belgium seems to me to have had the same motivation as King Juan Carlos' abdication in Spain, i.e. Albert probably felt that leaving the throne to Philippe would strengthen the position of the Belgian monarchy, which proved to be definitely true in hindsight. I agree with you though on Beatrix stepping down for no apparent reason.
with the risk of getting too far OT in this thread, imo P.Beatrix' abdication had a lot to do with the shock and sadness from the accident and eventual death of her second son P.Friso...i always had the feeling that after the accident she just couldn't fully dedicate herself anymore to "the business" of being a monarch as she thought a monarch should and probably in very thorough discussion with her ekdest son WA decided that the time of abdication had come...

just my 2cts...
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  #108  
Old 01-01-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
If health reasons was the main reason behind his retirement, why would the court say that he's keeping his patronages and some other official duties?

Count me into the group who thinks that the main reason for this is that he's simply not interested in the job anymore, as shown by his (imo) childish behavior the last year. His health may also not be the best - and perhaps also in decline - but that doesn't mean that health reasons are the primary reason for his retirement.
There is really no precedent I can recall of a royal consort retiring from public duty for a reason other than health issues. If a consort is no longer "interested" in the job, the appropriate thing to do would be to seek a divorce, or at least some type of estranged marriage arrangement. Keeping his marital status while giving up official state business seems inconsistent to me as the two are tied together IMHO.
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  #109  
Old 01-01-2016, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
There is really no precedent I can recall of a royal consort retiring from public duty for a reason other than health issues. If a consort is no longer "interested" in the job, the appropriate thing to do would be to seek a divorce, or at least some type of estranged marriage. Keeping his marital status while giving up official state business seems inconsistent to me as the two are tied together IMHO.
Well, in all other cases I would agree with you, but this is Henrik we're talking about... He has a very special mind of his own, for better and for worse. Last year, the "for worse"-part was clearly evident. My personal guess is that he has come to an age where he doesn't care what others think. He speaks his mind and makes his own decision, which includes pouting and not showing up on his wifes birthday. I think he will be a happier man if he's not so bound by the restraints of royal obligations. He can spend more time in France and with his grandkids. And a happier Henrik is a better support for the queen than the unreasonable childish behavior of his that she had to deal with the last year (and many times before that).
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  #110  
Old 01-01-2016, 02:34 PM
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As said in a previous post it's really weird to read the Danish press coverage of PH's retirement. - They are almost obituaries!
Here are a number of clips from TV2 of PH at his best - and worst...

Pandakostume, pytonkrone og paradeuniform: Prins Henrik i rampelyset | Nyheder
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  #111  
Old 01-01-2016, 02:36 PM
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Two thoughts:

First, that the whole thing is totally bonkers as he is scheduled to attend all the New Year events.....

Then I see him on video for tonight's event and he is unsteady on his feet and v slow. So on 2nd thoughts maybe there are health issues (not terminal)

I know little about his health - is he arthritic? It seems that they know he is slowing down and rather than put up with rumour and speculation, they decided to control the position. Times have changed since Q Ingrid etc. Media happy to gossip and speculate now therefore controlling the issue
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  #112  
Old 01-01-2016, 02:40 PM
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retired...but at tonights New Year Gala? It all seems a bit odd to me, if he is to retire then he should retire and not do public duties. How can he turn up for somethings but not others and call it retirement and the Court not expect questions to be asked?
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  #113  
Old 01-01-2016, 02:51 PM
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I'm going to wait and see before I make comments. I would hate to say he's just behaving badly then discover he is indeed ill. M and F will do a great job supporting the Queen so it should all go smoothly.


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  #114  
Old 01-01-2016, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Two thoughts:

First, that the whole thing is totally bonkers as he is scheduled to attend all the New Year events.....

Then I see him on video for tonight's event and he is unsteady on his feet and v slow. So on 2nd thoughts maybe there are health issues (not terminal)

I know little about his health - is he arthritic? It seems that they know he is slowing down and rather than put up with rumour and speculation, they decided to control the position. Times have changed since Q Ingrid etc. Media happy to gossip and speculate now therefore controlling the issue
I believe he is not scheduled to attend the 5th and 6th events anymore,
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  #115  
Old 01-01-2016, 08:14 PM
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Sick or not, at the end of the day he could have scaled down his duties in a dignified way without all the fuss, attention and talk about retirement.

There have been comments about Henrik coming from 'noble' blood and Mary being a 'commoner'. When you consider his continued bad behaviour over the years compared to the way that Mary has always conducted herself in a manner that is beyond reproach IMO she is the 'noble' one.
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  #116  
Old 01-01-2016, 10:13 PM
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Well lets be honest what has Mary had to complain about? She wasn't 'noble' blood but was still able to marry a Crown Prince and someday she will be Queen consort. We have no idea how she would react if she was going to be only Princess consort. IMO no one is beyond reproach.
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  #117  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Calenei View Post
Well lets be honest what has Mary had to complain about? She wasn't 'noble' blood but was still able to marry a Crown Prince and someday she will be Queen consort. We have no idea how she would react if she was going to be only Princess consort. IMO no one is beyond reproach.
He knew what he was getting into when he married. To my knowledge no male consort has been crowned a king. Prince Phillip is far from my favorite royal but look at the way he has supported QE11. He's 95 and has had health issues but he carried out 250 engagements last year. Says it all I think.....
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  #118  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Soula View Post
Sick or not, at the end of the day he could have scaled down his duties in a dignified way without all the fuss, attention and talk about retirement.

There have been comments about Henrik coming from 'noble' blood and Mary being a 'commoner'. When you consider his continued bad behaviour over the years compared to the way that Mary has always conducted herself in a manner that is beyond reproach IMO she is the 'noble' one.
It was the queen who chose to make an announcement in her New Year's speech.
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  #119  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Calenei View Post
Well lets be honest what has Mary had to complain about? She wasn't 'noble' blood but was still able to marry a Crown Prince and someday she will be Queen consort. We have no idea how she would react if she was going to be only Princess consort.
Well, Mary has never complained about anything, has she? She was not the only one who was "able" to marry without having noble blood.
And she would never complain if she became "only" a 'Princess Consort'.

I can name several posters at this board, who would be very pleased if she doesn't become 'Queen Mary' in the future...
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  #120  
Old 01-02-2016, 03:12 AM
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Again what does she have to complain about? Of course she hasn't. This was my point. I am still trying to figure out why she is even part of the discussion except to point out how perfect she is.
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