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  #621  
Old 07-12-2017, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
Exactly my thoughts. I disagree completely with Henri and i don't understand him at all. He knew who he choosed by free will to marry in 1967 and what the consequence's would be of that.

But i agree with you too that part of the secret to try to understand him is knowing that we are judging him from the values of today's society wich we all here on this forum takes for granted but is probably completely wrong in his world. He was born in the old School french aristocratic society where his views were completely normal and where any modern values were completely strange. To try to understand him is to try to understand his past, the society he comes from.

Margrethe seems to always have accepted that "he is like he is" and always known how to handle him" but it is a different story with Frederik. He is probably the one who have suffered the most during his whole life because of his father's regular temper tantrums and extreme conservatism. The self confident dutiful family father we see today in Frederik is far from the shy and nervous Crown Prince without self confidence we saw before. I can't and don't want to imagine what must have went trough his head that new year reception a few years back he had to emergency cover for the Queen, wich ended with Prince Henrik fleeing to France in an angry outburst and The Queen and The Prince's basically had to go to persuade him to come back... He must have been so scared when he stepped forward to greet the dignitaries on behalf of his mother, knowing that his father would explode of anger at any second over the fact that his son did that and not him.

As i said, i disagree completely with Henrik but i try to understand why he acts like he does too.
The running off mad to France thing was a low point but I've always wondered if it might have been more of a mental health breakdown than a tantrum as such. A lot of Henrik's behaviour could be explained by depression, for example, which for many people ebbs and flows over decades, and which I could understand them wanting to keep private.

Who knows? I try to keep in mind what previous posters have said, that we don't know everything that might be going on behind closed doors. From the outside looking in it's exasperating behaviour, though.
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  #622  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:04 PM
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When I saw this Evening the old DoE sitting next to his Queen, I was sad remembering this Consort did not even attend my King and Queen 's State Visit to his Country.
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  #623  
Old 07-12-2017, 08:09 PM
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This has been fascinating to read & has brought up something I've always wondered about...

Now IIRC the branch of the Danish Military Fredrick joined is the Elite of the Elite, right? You either make it or you don't. No in between, no coddling & no free pass because you're the Crown Prince & future King.

I have that right?

So what if choosing that path was more Fredrick thinking if he made it through & became a Member of these Forces (that I'm horribly blanking on the name on) , then maybe he'd finally prove something to his Father?

I'm not really saying what I'd like clearly & I should know better when I'm feeling icky to try & explain something like this, but after reading the above, it got me thinking & in turn....Yeah.

It is something I have wondered about though.
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  #624  
Old 07-12-2017, 08:49 PM
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You also have some very good insight into this thread about Prince Henrik. I for one believe that the childhood of the family of Prince Henrik was not all peaches and creme so to speak. IMO he is of the old world where men rule the home and every one listens to him and what he says goes regardless of anyone else. Even to this day I know a friend who is so like that and so very frustrating to be around and so most times I don't now.

I think young Prince Frederik must of at times had a very difficult time with his dad and knowing something about fathers who rule the roost so to speak it emotionally and mentality damaging in many ways. So yes the very active sportsman must of taken to physical activities to release all those frustrations that he had, the Elite Forces must of been a saving grace for him and look at this wonderful young man today with a woman by his side who is there for him and the children that are always smiling and being children, he truly does not have to prove anything to anybody for he has come into his own space with quiet dignity and a force to be reckon with when he becomes king. His parents must be so proud of him for all that he has accomplished and his mother the Queen knows all that he went through to get there.
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  #625  
Old 07-13-2017, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggersk8 View Post
This has been fascinating to read & has brought up something I've always wondered about...

Now IIRC the branch of the Danish Military Fredrick joined is the Elite of the Elite, right? You either make it or you don't. No in between, no coddling & no free pass because you're the Crown Prince & future King.

I have that right?

So what if choosing that path was more Fredrick thinking if he made it through & became a Member of these Forces (that I'm horribly blanking on the name on) , then maybe he'd finally prove something to his Father?

I'm not really saying what I'd like clearly & I should know better when I'm feeling icky to try & explain something like this, but after reading the above, it got me thinking & in turn....Yeah.

It is something I have wondered about though.
You are absolutely right.

No considerations were made in regards to Frederik. As an instructor explained when he was an aspirant: If Frederik wasn't up to the task they would simply end up with an injured Crown Prince.

And I think you are right. Frederik did this to prove something. Very likely proving to his father that he is a man, but perhaps also in regards to the public image he had back then of a somewhat unserious, overgrown teenager and not particularly mature.

But I think it was marrying Mary and becoming a family man that really made a difference for Frederik. That's his anchor in life and that I think has enabled him to stand up to his father, or at least being able to brush his father's quirks off.
We must however also keep in mind that while PH sure has his faults, also in regards to his sons (perhaps in particular Frederik), he is also a beloved father and who, in his way, love his sons dearly.

PH is endlessly fascinating because he has so many contrasting facets of his personality. He is a sulking, spoiled child and an absolutely devoted grandad. He's a loving and romantic husband and very egocentric with a megalomaniac streak. He's a flamboyant eccentric and an arch conservative. - I could go on.
That is of course also why this thread is alive and well, because everyone can have an opinion about PH, and be just as right as everybody else.

-----------------------------

Polyesco has told me about an article where the court has confirmed that qualified helpers (nurses or semi-nurses) has been employed to assist PH.

Lene Balleby says: "We can confirm that recently medical-qualified (i.e. nurse or semi-nurse) has been employed to assist His Royal Highness. Out of principle we do not elaborate in regards to specific functions carried out by the various groups of employees".

"I can reject that there should be a particular medical reason other than that the Prince has turned 83 years old and may need a little help on a day to day basis".

- I talked about it with my wife, who is working within the field. She said she would be more surprised if PH did not need help by now.
That help can be anything from giving daily injections, say of insulin. To treating ulcers - which can come from diabetes, which she believe PH is likely to suffer from. Or to help with the more intimate daily grooming of PH. - He does have a history of at least getting close to falling, which would make it more difficult for him to clean himself thoroughly while showering or taking a bath in a tub.
Apart from that, such persons will keep an eye on PH's general health as a matter of routine.
These are all things an adjutant or a valet is not qualified to perform.

Not least because PH is living an active life where he is traveling, so having a nurse or nurse-assistant around makes sense.

- So yes, PH is getting older, but that is hardly something new.
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  #626  
Old 07-13-2017, 12:45 AM
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I think there should be a clearly defined role and duties of prince consorts and some kind of arrangement has to be developed so the prince consort is not swallowed up and reduced to an appendage of the Queen Regnant.
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  #627  
Old 07-13-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
When I saw this Evening the old DoE sitting next to his Queen, I was sad remembering this Consort did not even attend my King and Queen 's State Visit to his Country.
I think your King and Queen were probably relieved.
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  #628  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:45 PM
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There's no clearly defined role for any working royal except the monarch in any country that I'm aware of. The job of other royals is to support their monarch, whatever that means in each country.
In terms of royal consorts the role is what they make of it. To me, it's not a gender issue but a motivation issue. It's not like every female consort has made the most of her role, either, but the opportunities are there.
The Duke of Edinburgh was obviously very motivated to carve out a meaningful role for himself within the royal court. He made his share of mistakes, especially in the early years of his marriage. But he was willing to learn from his mistakes and change course when needed which is one of the key differences I see between him and Prince Henrik. Henrik was a smart, handsome, charming guy when he married Queen Margrethe. But he's pretty clearly thin skinned and maybe not so great at being able to read the national mood re: what the Danes wanted from him. It was his job to adjust to the Danes and meet their expectations, after all, not the other way around.
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  #629  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:54 PM
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I find it interesting that he has been gone for over a year and a half.

And yet few seem to miss him. I would guess that he thought retirement would resolve some issues he had with his life. Instead, it has moved him to a back burner, in terms of the attention he has sought.

Be careful what you wish for, they always say. No winners in this story, IMO. Time will tell.
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  #630  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:59 PM
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Actually, I think the winners are the Queen...who seems happier that she no longer has to deal with an unpredictable husband publicly....and the Crown Prince couple who have firmly established themselves as the front runners of the DRF.
Obviously, Prince Henrik had issues that finally came to a head within the family that had to be dealt with firmly and brought to a final resolution for the future good of the family and royal house. I would now say that things are as they should be.
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  #631  
Old 07-13-2017, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Polyesco has told me about an article where the court has confirmed that qualified helpers (nurses or semi-nurses) has been employed to assist PH.

Lene Balleby says: "We can confirm that recently medical-qualified (i.e. nurse or semi-nurse) has been employed to assist His Royal Highness. Out of principle we do not elaborate in regards to specific functions carried out by the various groups of employees".

"I can reject that there should be a particular medical reason other than that the Prince has turned 83 years old and may need a little help on a day to day basis".

- I talked about it with my wife, who is working within the field. She said she would be more surprised if PH did not need help by now.
That help can be anything from giving daily injections, say of insulin. To treating ulcers - which can come from diabetes, which she believe PH is likely to suffer from. Or to help with the more intimate daily grooming of PH. - He does have a history of at least getting close to falling, which would make it more difficult for him to clean himself thoroughly while showering or taking a bath in a tub.
Apart from that, such persons will keep an eye on PH's general health as a matter of routine.
These are all things an adjutant or a valet is not qualified to perform.

Not least because PH is living an active life where he is traveling, so having a nurse or nurse-assistant around makes sense.

- So yes, PH is getting older, but that is hardly something new.
That sounds logical. He is an old man now and his health is far from what it was before. It's easy for us to sometimes forget that all royals above 80 are not in the same health as Queen Elizabeth II and The Duke of Edinburgh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
Actually, I think the winners are the Queen...who seems happier that she no longer has to deal with an unpredictable husband publicly....and the Crown Prince couple who have firmly established themselves as the front runners of the DRF.
Obviously, Prince Henrik had issues that finally came to a head within the family that had to be dealt with firmly and brought to a final resolution for the future good of the family and royal house. I would now say that things are as they should be.
I think you are right. Some people and newspapers speculated a while ago that QMII might andicate as she would miss that PH is not there anymore. I think it looks like her burden has eased enormously and she looks like a new person with new life and spirit again. And the Crown Prince can now allow himself to take his rightful place as the nr 2 in the family, assist the Queen and prepare himself and his wife for their future roles by taking over more and more important work instead of being forced back to the backseat again by an angry, jelaous and arch-conservative father. It sounds harsh to say but i think it's true. Atleast partially true.

It might very well be that PH is or has suffered from serious deppression or other form of illness that very well can explain his behaviour. We don't know that. But as long as we don't know anything more, his complex personality never stops to fascinate me...
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  #632  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:36 AM
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If anything, over the years, Henrik has been a colorful figure with a personality that has endeared him to his wife. Just as the Duke of Edinburgh could be counted on to make gaffes that would make the Queen roll her eyes and go "Oh Philip!", Queen Daisy has her match in Henrik. You always wonder what they're going to be wearing because you know they both have a flamboyant, artistic streak in them. (The multicolor raincoat and Henrik's Zorba the Grape outfit recently proves this point). This is one unique couple that have endured for years.

Henrik and Philip also are two men that came to be consorts of a queen at the end of a different kind of era and each had to deal with the difficulties of adjusting to their roles and what to do with them. I think one of the DoE's saving factors was that up until he married into the BRF, he was basically a self made man and took on making his role his own the same way he took on everything else in his life. I don't know much about Henrik's background but I'm of a mind to believe that he was raised with more of a sense of entitlement and that's reflected in his attitudes.

Regardless of his idiosyncrasies that seem to rub people the wrong way, there is obviously a strong relationship between the Danish royal couple. I wish him well and many more years of being by his wife's side.
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  #633  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
That sounds logical. He is an old man now and his health is far from what it was before. It's easy for us to sometimes forget that all royals above 80 are not in the same health as Queen Elizabeth II and The Duke of Edinburgh.
The Prince is admitted in hospital right now, because of an infection in a leg. So his health indeed is not too good.
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  #634  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Regardless of his idiosyncrasies that seem to rub people the wrong way, there is obviously a strong relationship between the Danish royal couple. I wish him well and many more years of being by his wife's side.
Margrethe clearly thinks the world of him. I remember thinking there last time I saw them together - possibly Easter? - that there was so much love and affection between them.

I've come to really admire Queen Margrethe in the years I've been following the Danish royals. She's intelligent, witty, dutiful, hardworking. Everything you could ask for in a monarch. I hope she's truly happy with the current setup and that she and Henrik continue to act as support for each other in their private lives for a long time to come!
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  #635  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:57 AM
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Absolutely agree! From my own experience in a long-term marriage, even though you love the other person, sometimes you just don't like them very much. You adjust and go on; whatever works for the two of you.
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  #636  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Prince is admitted in hospital right now, because of an infection in a leg. So his health indeed is not too good.
Didn't realize that. I truly hope his stay will be short and all corrected soon. He might be a tad testy at times, but really an interesting person and the Queen does adore him plus a brilliant grandfather. Prayers to his complete recovery.
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  #637  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:31 PM
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I have never really followed the Danish RF very closely and I admit to being most ignorant about Frederik's childhood and youth years, but anyway, I find it curious that everybody on this forum seems to talk about Frederik having to stand up to his dad and so on, so forth, when, on the contrary, from the tiny little bits I read or heard of, it was actually his relationship with his mother that was particularly difficult for him, with QMII having the reputation, which I think she herself acknowledges, of having been a rather distant and coid mum to her children.

Anybody from Denmark would care to comment ?
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  #638  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:55 PM
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I have never really followed the Danish RF very closely and I admit to being most ignorant about Frederik's childhood and youth years, but anyway, I find it curious that everybody on this forum seems to talk about Frederik having to stand up to his dad and so on, so forth, when, on the contrary, from the tiny little bits I read or heard of, it was actually his relationship with his mother that was particularly difficult for him, with QMII having the reputation, which I think she herself acknowledges, of having been a rather distant and coid mum to her children.

Anybody from Denmark would care to comment ?
I think both Frederik and Joachim has had a difficult relation to both of their parents. They love them dearly ofcourse because they are Mom and Dad, but like in every family that's not the same as always going along and like each other. They have said in quite clear words that their children will not get the same upbringing as their parents gave them. That must mean something...

QMII has admitted that she was rarely at home when her children were small kids because she had to become Queen already at 31 and that when she was home, she wasn't a very good wife and mother so she handed practically everything regarding the family over to PH.

I get the impression that PH was very frustrated during the first years in the reign of his wife and that he felt like a babysitter with nothing else to do. I don't know if he has said exactly those words but that's the impression i've got of him.
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  #639  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I have never really followed the Danish RF very closely and I admit to being most ignorant about Frederik's childhood and youth years, but anyway, I find it curious that everybody on this forum seems to talk about Frederik having to stand up to his dad and so on, so forth, when, on the contrary, from the tiny little bits I read or heard of, it was actually his relationship with his mother that was particularly difficult for him, with QMII having the reputation, which I think she herself acknowledges, of having been a rather distant and coid mum to her children.

Anybody from Denmark would care to comment ?
Yes and no.

It was very much PH who was in charge of Frederik and Joachim's (F&J) upbringing on a day to day basis.
QMII has indeed admitted that she's not good with smaller children and that F&J didn't see that much of their parents in their daily life, but were left very much in the care of their nanny and that was the case until they were past ten years old.
That was how QMII and PH themselves were brought up, but by the early 70's that was pretty archaic.
So yes, they didn't have a close relationship with their parents. That doesn't mean they weren't loved by their parents, good heavens no, but they only developed a close relationship with them when they were in their teens.
That of course meant they looked to their nanny, Else Sørensen IIRC, as their mother and to some part also their father I guess. - Including being rebellious towards her in their early teens. Frederik has told how he and his brother climbed out of their window at Amalienborg and out onto the roof to the great consternation of their nanny!
When F&J were around 13-14 they were shipped off to a boarding school in France, which they did not enjoy! Frederik clearly hated it, Joachim perhaps less so. (*)
They returned home to attend high school and after high school, and probably some time before former Master of Ceremonies, Søren Haslund Christensen, entered the picture. He took Frederik out on trips, including an expedition to Mongolia and it's very clear that he and Frederik developed a very close bond.
Where I think PH is a father with a very "macho-approach" I think Søren Haslund Christensen realized how sensitive Frederik is and I think he very much listened to Frederik. All boys enjoy wrestling with dad, but they also need being listened to. And in that respect you can easily say PH and DoE were similar. Their approach is IMO a "boys don't cry" and "boy's don't fuss" and "be a man!" mentality.

But as F&J grew older they have developed a closer relationship with their parents and perhaps in particular QMII and Frederik.
And while I'm in no doubt PH loves Frederik dearly, I also think he see him as a bit of usurper, a threat to the patriarch.

Joachim is I think more like his dad in his personality. He is also an arch-conservative and indeed a Francophile (**) and I think he quite enjoys being the patron his his little family, as far as our Marie allows him, - without him ever really realizing it...
Like his dad, Joachim is not a man to wear his feelings on the outside. Or at least that's how he used to be, Marie has changed that quite a lot actually.

So the DRF, like most families in fact, is no model family. They've made their shares of mistakes and have their share of faults, but at least QMII has learned from the mistakes and so have F&J, who are much more hands on parents and who have a much more personal approach to bringing up their own children.

(*) The tribal-gossip here in DK, says QMII was jealous on Eva Sørensen's close relationship with F&J and that's why she was dismissed and the boys shipped off to boarding school.

(**) Certainly in regards to the typical French family pattern, but also in the way of addressing other people. Danes can, at least on first appearance, be pretty impolite since the use of formal You has almost gone out of use without something to substitute it.
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  #640  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:51 PM
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Muhler, didn't Henrik believe in the saying 'Spare the rod and spoil the child' when his boys were growing up? I believe the adult Frederik has made reference to the use of his father's physical punishments on one or two occasions, including a speech on a family occasion when his parents were present.
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