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  #501  
Old 06-17-2016, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Duc- How would you compare the late Prince Claus to his peers: (Phillip, Henrik, Daniel)? Did he struggle as Beatrix's consort?
Henri de Laborde de Monpezat was countryside gentry, as we have seen. But then rough,rural, rocky Pyrenées countryside.

His contemporary Claus von Amsberg was countryside nobility. His grandparents were Wilhelm von Amsberg (Briefadel from Mecklenburg), Elise von Vieregge (Uradel from Mecklenburg), Georg Freiherr von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen (Uradel from Westphalia) and Gabrielle Marie Freiin von dem Bussche-Ippenburg (Uradel from Westphalia).

The transformation of Henri (from Vietnam and the French Pyrenées to Copenhagen) seems bigger than the transformation of Claus (from Mecklenburg to The Hague). But in reality we can say nothing because Prince Henrik seems a guy enjoying the good things of life and he seems in good spirits too. Prince Claus suffered severe depressions since the beginning of the Eighties. He never healed and got more physical problems (Parkinson).
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  #502  
Old 06-17-2016, 06:49 AM
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Thanks, to all the posters on this topic. I've found it a very interesting, many-faceted discussion.👏
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  #503  
Old 06-17-2016, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Well, he sure has had his quirks. And as you know he has also had his tantrums, the most well-known when he ran off to France because he felt usurped by his son and no longer was number two in the family.

I've heard family members of mine talking about what was heard about town back in the early days of the marriage and also in the early days of QMII & PH being the Regent Couple. - That PH had a few problems about being the one who should walk behind QMII. And that Queen Ingrid had stepped in and told him where his place was in the pecking order. - With Queen Ingrid being the matron of the family, PH's upbringing would prohibit him from protesting.
Of course I can't say if that's correct, but it's believed as the gospel truth by most in the generation older than me.

However, judging from his complaints it seems pretty clear that there is something in what was said. He seems to have genuine problems about not officially being, as well being seen and treated, as the patron of the family.
I've been told that this is far from uncommon from French men of his generation and his background. - Dad is the patron, period!

I'd say PH is stuck in the 1950's.

And he has never really understood and/or accepted what it means to be Prince Consort, that you are the main support of your wife. Not the patron.
And he has never really understood/accepted Danish culture, where titles means very little. And where a dad is supposed to bring up and support his sons as independent individuals and that you have succeeded the day you and your children look each other in the eyes as equals.
The dashing off to France bit was at the time of the wedding of QM II's godchild Willem-Alexanders wedding with Máxima in 2002.He left her then and there and took off just like that,no sense of whats what and how things are done in Royal circles whatshowever,just his own circle,me moi et moi.I dare say he's a bit of a spectacle to put it mildly.A travesty.
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  #504  
Old 06-17-2016, 08:54 AM
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While PH certainly has his faults, we should also remember that he has his good sides as well.

On the positive side he has always, until recently that is, done his duty.
And he and QMII have always been very fond of each other - even if, repeat if, they have now grown apart.
There has never been any rumors that he has been chasing other women. And that to the point that he called a LiW his "mistress" without anyone battering an eyelid.
He's a good people's person, in the sense that he can talk and joke with anyone.
He's entertaining! Just look at the way he dress - no other royal come anywhere near him! And on the job, he usually goof a little so the photographers have something and to ease the mood.
QMII, at least until recently, had a tendency to become a giggling blushing schoolgirl in love when they are on the job together.
His art is certainly not uninteresting and his poems... I mean anyone who can write love-poems to his dogs is special.
His open and unorthodox.
And he is a loving grandad.

On the other hand he is very self-centered.
Has a tendency to feel sorry for himself.
Feels he's the most important person present - regardless of where and with whom.
He's conservative to the point of being an anachronism. - He would be perfectly at home in the French nobility anno 1740.

But first and foremost he is human. And that's why this thread is so alive and well.
PH often give me a good chuckle and five minutes later I just want to put him in a box and ship him to: The Second Atol to the Left, Palau Nowhere, The Pacific! - No return address...
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  #505  
Old 06-17-2016, 09:49 AM
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I have a soft spot for Prince Henrik. He is a colourful figure. Margrethe still seems to swoon over him. When the family is at Caÿx, he really seems to be the Pater Familias and Margrethe seems to enjoy the role "I am just the wife, you know". So laid-back, so easygoing. I think the retirement of the Prince is well earned and is probably rooted in a decline in his physical abilities.
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  #506  
Old 06-18-2016, 02:28 AM
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It just dawned on me, reading this paragraph that dealt with the Prince Consort's "retirement" in the Queen speech:

"Tonight, however, I would like to extend my best thanks to the Prince Consort. My husband has made the decision that the time has now come for him to slow down or, if I may use a common Danish term to retire. Going forward, the Prince Consort will therefore only to a very limited extent partake in the official events, which for so many years have been a natural part of his life. It is his decision, which I understand and respect. I am deeply grateful for all the support, help and inspiration he has given me over the years. I look forward to continuing to carry out my duties with the support of my husband, though it will be less visible."

If the phrase, "or if I may use a common Danish term to retire" had not been added by way of explanation from the Queen, the whole 26-page long debate (and counting) on this forum and others as to the real reason behind the "retirement" would and could have been avoided. Hindsight is twenty-twenty.
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  #507  
Old 06-18-2016, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
While PH certainly has his faults, we should also remember that he has his good sides as well.

On the positive side he has always, until recently that is, done his duty.
And he and QMII have always been very fond of each other - even if, repeat if, they have now grown apart.
There has never been any rumors that he has been chasing other women. And that to the point that he called a LiW his "mistress" without anyone battering an eyelid.
He's a good people's person, in the sense that he can talk and joke with anyone.
He's entertaining! Just look at the way he dress - no other royal come anywhere near him! And on the job, he usually goof a little so the photographers have something and to ease the mood.
QMII, at least until recently, had a tendency to become a giggling blushing schoolgirl in love when they are on the job together.
His art is certainly not uninteresting and his poems... I mean anyone who can write love-poems to his dogs is special.
His open and unorthodox.
And he is a loving grandad.

On the other hand he is very self-centered.
Has a tendency to feel sorry for himself.
Feels he's the most important person present - regardless of where and with whom.
He's conservative to the point of being an anachronism. - He would be perfectly at home in the French nobility anno 1740.

But first and foremost he is human. And that's why this thread is so alive and well.
PH often give me a good chuckle and five minutes later I just want to put him in a box and ship him to: The Second Atol to the Left, Palau Nowhere, The Pacific! - No return address...

That's a great post and really at his age I suppose we should be all free to do what we want just like he is doing.
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  #508  
Old 06-18-2016, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pammy View Post
If the phrase, "or if I may use a common Danish term to retire" had not been added by way of explanation from the Queen, the whole 26-page long debate (and counting) on this forum and others as to the real reason behind the "retirement" would and could have been avoided. Hindsight is twenty-twenty.
You make an excellent point here. Now I'm going to pose a question and hopefully get a bit of feedback on it. Its a "what if" kind of thing.

What if both Margrethe and Henrik put their heads together and figured out that maybe with Henrik "slowing down" or "retiring" it opens the gates for Margrethe to take a breather when she needed to just recoup and rest and no one would complain with the reason given that she was spending time with her husband and family?
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  #509  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:01 AM
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As in taking an indefinite leave?

Within 24 hours everyone would be using the word abdication!
That would be followed by wild speculations as to whether QMII and/or PH are seriously ill.
Within a month there would be a serious public discussion as to whether QMII should abdicate and whether this is an unofficial abdication.
Within two months it would be considered a de facto regency and serious calls would be aired urging/suggesting QMII to abdicate since she has basically retired anyway.
After six months M&F are the Regent Couple, and there will be no turning back.

- Not because people are dissatisfied with her. Oh no! But because M&F are seen to be ready to take over.
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  #510  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:07 AM
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Ahhh Gotcha.

I just thought it might be a plausible reason for Margrethe to get the flu and not feel 100% and whisk off to where Henrik is at the time.

I do come up with silly stuff sometimes.
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  #511  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
As in taking an indefinite leave?

Within 24 hours everyone would be using the word abdication!
That would be followed by wild speculations as to whether QMII and/or PH are seriously ill.
Within a month there would be a serious public discussion as to whether QMII should abdicate and whether this is an unofficial abdication.
Within two months it would be considered a de facto regency and serious calls would be aired urging/suggesting QMII to abdicate since she has basically retired anyway.
After six months M&F are the Regent Couple, and there will be no turning back.

- Not because people are dissatisfied with her. Oh no! But because M&F are seen to be ready to take over.
Not an indefinite leave but she could very well take much more time off, travel the word with her husband, stay at Cayx with him and so on.

The next in line is perfectly capable of handling things in her abscense.
Are there things that QM has to do and that only she can do? If Frederik is regent, is he not then the "King" ?
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  #512  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:16 AM
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No, you are not silly.

So you mean QMII feeling a bit under the weather and going off to Cayz where the weather is better to recuperate for a couple of weeks? And then talk things out with PH?

As long as it is only for a couple of weeks, I don't think that should be a problem. She might not even announce it and slip under the radar. - Perhaps they already have?
It's only when things are cancelled or taken over by another that speculations will start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Not an indefinite leave but she could very well take much more time off, travel the word with her husband, stay at Cayx with him and so on.

The next in line is perfectly capable of handling things in her abscense.
Are there things that QM has to do and that only she can do? If Frederik is regent, is he not then the "King" ?
In anything but name, yes.

Well, with the Regent Couple in a kind of limbo, regarding retirement, how long do you think it would take before the debate about QMII abdicating would become serious?
You know how long I think it would last, but if the rest of you (*) were living here. How long would it take before you thought: Okay better let M&F take over. That I'd be curious to learn.

(*) You English speakers really need more words for you.
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  #513  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No, you are not silly.

So you mean QMII feeling a bit under the weather and going off to Cayz where the weather is better to recuperate for a couple of weeks? And then talk things out with PH?

As long as it is only for a couple of weeks, I don't think that should be a problem. She might not even announce it and slip under the radar. - Perhaps they already have?
It's only when things are cancelled or taken over by another that speculations will start.
That would be an interesting option. And the most favourable one to all concerned I have read so far. Especially for the Queen.
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  #514  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:44 AM
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I can see it now. He goes "your place or mine?" (we need a wiggle eyebrows emo thingie).

It just seems more feasible to me than all of a sudden have rumors of a divorce. They're older, they have separate likes and dislikes and interests and this "retirement" gets him out of the royal fishbowl and a pick and choose option which, in a way, gives him King power of control of his life and with that, should Queen Daisy (I love that name) feel she needs to get away from it all sometimes, she's got a perfect bolt hole excuse too.
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  #515  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
In anything but name, yes.

Well, with the Regent Couple in a kind of limbo, regarding retirement, how long do you think it would take before the debate about QMII abdicating would become serious?
You know how long I think it would last, but if the rest of you (*) were living here. How long would it take before you thought: Okay better let M&F take over. That I'd be curious to learn.

(*) You English speakers really need more words for you.
Where I come from, its acceptable to use y'all or youse guys too.

Most definitely my suggestion would just be like for a weekend getaway and a reason to clear the appointment book for a span of time. As Margrethe reminds me so much of Elizabeth II, its unthinkable that she'd forgo her duties of being the monarch for a very long period of time.
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  #516  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:51 AM
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I see.

Using PH as an excuse to take a breather - but not near PH?

I don't think she has to. She has cut down in recent years and now concentrate very much on what she finds interesting - scenography, art, archeology.
And the DRF website don't record where she is every minute, so she can easily slip away unnoticed - and probably do.

(Yes, we do need more smilies).
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  #517  
Old 06-18-2016, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

Well, with the Regent Couple in a kind of limbo, regarding retirement, how long do you think it would take before the debate about QMII abdicating would become serious?
You know how long I think it would last, but if the rest of you (*) were living here. How long would it take before you thought: Okay better let M&F take over. That I'd be curious to learn.
I already think an abdication would be a good thing, but it's not going to happen.

Queen Ingrid died at 90 and AFAIR, her siblings were also pretty long-lived. If Queen Margrethe lives another 15 years, the debate about abdication will go on anyway, the older she gets.

She might as well take a couple of weeks time off more often than she does now. I think the Danes would understand that.
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  #518  
Old 06-18-2016, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Where I come from, its acceptable to use y'all or youse guys too.
Try live here! We have loads of words for you/your/yours:
du (informal you)
de (plural)
De (formal you and also sometimes formal plural)
Deres (formal you and also sometimes formal plural)
dig (informal you)
din (informal you)
dine (informal you)
dem (plural)
Dem (formal you, sometimes formal plural)
jer (informal plural)
jeres (informal plural)
I (plural about people)

- I probably left out a couple of yours.
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  #519  
Old 06-18-2016, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Try live here! We have loads of words for you/your/yours:
du (informal you)
de (plural)
De (formal you and also sometimes formal plural)
Deres (formal you and also sometimes formal plural)
deres (plural)
dig (informal you)
din (informal you)
dine (informal you)
dem (plural)
Dem (formal you, sometimes formal plural)
jer (informal plural)
jeres (informal plural)
I (plural about people)

- I probably left out a couple of yours.
Reminds me of my years of studying French that I've never really used, can read a bit and now can recognize a bit of root words in all languages and at a very late stage of the game of my life have discovered an interest of etymology. Of course I'm fanciful and want to master cuneiform and hieroglyphs and Gaelic and ... and ... and...

Just makes me appreciate the effort you do in translations for us English speakers all the more. As far as languages go, Americans for the most part are seriously lacking in even speaking English.

Perhaps that is one thing that draws me to wanting to know about a magnificent Danish queen. Her history and her fascination with it, her keen sense of color and her artistic ways of showing it and just a general sense of just being happy in the now wherever she is. That's why I tend to think that whatever is going on with Henrik, its not because of any antagonism or loss of love between them or some kind of a dispute over titles and whatnot.

Of course I'm relatively new to knowing the DRF and just am dipping my toes in the waters. Muhler.... its YOUR fault. How many words do you have for your?

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  #520  
Old 06-18-2016, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Try live here! We have loads of words for you/your/yours:
du (informal you)
de (plural)
De (formal you and also sometimes formal plural)
Deres (formal you and also sometimes formal plural)
deres (plural)
dig (informal you)
din (informal you)
dine (informal you)
dem (plural)
Dem (formal you, sometimes formal plural)
jer (informal plural)
jeres (informal plural)
I (plural about people)

- I probably left out a couple of yours.

Wow and our Mary learnt all that makes me even more proud of her


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