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  #481  
Old 06-16-2016, 05:10 AM
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Oh yes, Roslyn! I would pay serious money to see his reaction to that!

Perhaps.
But the current system works.
PH is the only consort who has made a song and dance act about this.

He is an intelligent man and he knows perfectly well that in order for him to get the title of king, the Constitution needs to be changed and that's very difficult. On top of that: While the Constitution could need a modernization there is no way in this world the proceedings are going to start based on that. PH's king-issue would simply distract from the rest of the changes.
And the more he keeps talking about it, the less the chances are for the Constitution to be overhauled. - PH has by no means endeared himself to those politicians who advocate changes to the Constitution!

And there is really no rush.
Because while the Constitution outlines the way the system works and the basic rights and duties of the citizens, it's full of loopholes.
Many Danes think what is said in the Constitution is absolute. - That is far from necessarily the case!

Many if not most paragraphs in the Constitution basically says: !!§§§!! unless another paragraph says something else.
And such a paragraph is only invalid if the Supreme Court has ruled or rules that's goes against the Constitution.
I believe that applies to most constitutions, otherwise governments would be unable to function efficiently.
Example: Conscription for all able-bodied men is mandatory, according to the Constitution. - But it doesn't define how many should be called up. And it is possible to "temporarily" suspend conscription - indefinitely...

But some would like to see that laws do not require the signature of the Monarch in order to become valid. - That argument is hard enough to sell as it is! And with PH shouting: I wanna be king! Such a change is hopeless!
Or that DK should become a secular state, but again with PH shouting: King! King! King! - Fat chance of that happening!

- Couldn't agree more, Duke of Marmalade.
DoE would probably protest loudly and threaten to retire, if that was even proposed.
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  #482  
Old 06-16-2016, 08:01 AM
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I'm trying to understand prince Henrik. When someone acts irrational, it's very often because it's logical to them, so I want to understand Henriks way of thinking.

While it's more an explanation than an excuse (and God knows he might need one), I think that Henrik is very much a product of his time and culture. A man brought up in the french nobility in those days probably wasn't raised to become a person who walks a few steps behind his wife. Quite the opposite.

Two interesting comparisons are prince Philip and prince Daniel. Philip himself was born into a royal family. He knew what he was getting into when he married princess/queen Elizabeth. I think he has been a bigger support to his wife than anyone can ever imagine. He is also of the same generation as Henrik - that makes him an extra interesting person in this comparison. Prince Philiip knew what to expect when he married Elizabeth. Did count Henri know what to expect when he married Margarethe? I don't think he did.

Then there's prince Daniel. He's married to a future Queen. So far I've seen no sign that he's unhappy with a supportive role. But Daniel has been brought up in another time and culture than prince Henrik and prince Philip. Daniel is from a middle class family in Dalarna, brought up in a very gender equal context during the 1970's. That doesn't mean that prince Daniel is a better person than prince Henrik. They are both children of their times, and that reflects in the way that they embrace their supportive roles.

My take on this is that Henrik didn't truly understand what it meant when he married his wife. Maybe neither of them did. Add to that his temperament, with tantrums like a grumpy teenager, and the realization that he's getting older and still isn't king consort. That's the basic recepie for what we have today.
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  #483  
Old 06-16-2016, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
[...] Philip himself was born into a royal family. He knew what he was getting into when he married princess/queen Elizabeth. I think he has been a bigger support to his wife than anyone can ever imagine. He is also of the same generation as Henrik - that makes him an extra interesting person in this comparison. Prince Philiip knew what to expect when he married Elizabeth. Did count Henri know what to expect when he married Margarethe? I don't think he did. [....]
The comparison between Prince Philip and Prince Henrik does not really match.

Prince Philip was born as HRH Prince Philip of Greece of Denmark. His grandparents were a King of Greece, a Grand-Duchess of Russia, a Prince of Battenberg and a Princess of Hessen-Darmstadt. A completely royal milieu.

Henri de Laborde de Monpezat was born as a French gentilhomme. His grandparents were André de Laborde de Monpezat, Henriette Hallberg, Maurice Pierre Doursenot and Marguérite-Marthe Gay Laforest. It is nothing, in comparison with Prince Philip. A countryside gentry milieu.

From the conservative, remote and rural Cahors (in the Midi-Pyrénées) to Amalienborg in Copenhagen, Denmark is waaaaay more different than from living in Saint-Cloud or Saint-Tropez with aunt Princess George of Greece and Denmark née Marie Bonaparte, Princess Napoléon or from living with his grandmother at Kensington Palace and ending in Buckingham Palace...

No wonder that Henri de Laborde de Monpezat feels 100% like a fish in the water when he lives the life of a seigneur at the Châtau du Caÿx (picture).
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  #484  
Old 06-16-2016, 09:34 AM
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Great post Duc. The thing that is funny to me is that between the two of them, one of them definitely acts more "grand" than the other, and it isn't the one whose lineage would warrant it.
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  #485  
Old 06-16-2016, 09:47 AM
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Today on the Faroe Islands (Or Faeroe Islands. My spell-check goes up otherwise, but both are right, get it Firefox!) QMII was directly asked whether the fact that she is in the North Atlantic while PH is celebrating his birthday in France is an indication of a de facto divorse.

QMII's reply was: "Nej, bevar mig vel = Good heavens, no".
Dronning Margrethe blev spurgt til rygter: Er det reelt en skilsmisse fra Henrik?

However, in BB #24, this week, Lene Balleby wasasked about the Regent Couple's plans for celebrating their golden anniversary. Would the celebration take place at Cayx?
Lene Balleby: "That's way too early to say anything about... time will tell.
Prince Henrik realize that you as royal can't retire entirely and be completely away from public life and he does still have a long row of official tasks. But the Prince has got/been given a much less prominent role and as such both he and the Queen wish that the celebration of the golden anniversary takes place in private".

- I should perhaps add to the above posts that PH really isn't French rural gentry, he is more colonial gentry. Having lived in Vietnam most of his childhood and youth.
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  #486  
Old 06-16-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jneugeba View Post
Great post Duc. The thing that is funny to me is that between the two of them, one of them definitely acts more "grand" than the other, and it isn't the one whose lineage would warrant it.
Prince Henri really does not act "more grand". He is who he is. The Pater Familias. But Prince Philip's ascetic lifestyle kept him going strong. Prince Henrik, being a gourmand, a connaisseur and living a burgundian lifestyle has explored life to the max but it took a toll on him, visible for all of us.

As a Béarnois from origin (the Laborde de Monpezats come from the Béarn, a region bordering Pays Basque and the Pyrenées, with quite independent attitudes), despite his youth in French Indochina, he maybe is cocky, proud and well-aware but remember: that is the man Queen Margrethe felt for. The Prince's family, his brothers, all of them looked typically Pyrenées people: hard-headed, proud, cocky.

Maybe Prince Philip is -in the eyes of Prince Henrik- a whimp, a pussycat, as he is always in the shadow of his omni- and overpresent wife. Who knows.
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  #487  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince Henrik, being a gourmand, a connaisseur and living a burgundian lifestyle has explored life to the max but it took a toll on him, visible for all of us.
I think he has done very well for this lifestyle. When I look at his belly I am surprised he has made it past 80. And not every ascetic living person makes it to the age of 95.
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  #488  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The comparison between Prince Philip and Prince Henrik does not really match.

Prince Philip was born as HRH Prince Philip of Greece of Denmark. His grandparents were a King of Greece, a Grand-Duchess of Russia, a Prince of Battenberg and a Princess of Hessen-Darmstadt. A completely royal milieu.

Henri de Laborde de Monpezat was born as a French gentilhomme. His grandparents were André de Laborde de Monpezat, Henriette Hallberg, Maurice Pierre Doursenot and Marguérite-Marthe Gay Laforest. It is nothing, in comparison with Prince Philip. A countryside gentry milieu.

From the conservative, remote and rural Cahors (in the Midi-Pyrénées) to Amalienborg in Copenhagen, Denmark is waaaaay more different than from living in Saint-Cloud or Saint-Tropez with aunt Princess George of Greece and Denmark née Marie Bonaparte, Princess Napoléon or from living with his grandmother at Kensington Palace and ending in Buckingham Palace...

No wonder that Henri de Laborde de Monpezat feels 100% like a fish in the water when he lives the life of a seigneur at the Châtau du Caÿx (picture).
Duc- How would you compare the late Prince Claus to his peers: (Phillip, Henrik, Daniel)? Did he struggle as Beatrix's consort?
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  #489  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Today on the Faroe Islands (Or Faeroe Islands. My spell-check goes up otherwise, but both are right, get it Firefox!) QMII was directly asked whether the fact the she in the North Atlantic while PH is celebrating his birthday in France is an indication of a de facto divorse.

QMII's reply was: "Nej, bevar mig well = Good heavens, no".
Dronning Margrethe blev spurgt til rygter: Er det reelt en skilsmisse fra Henrik?

However, in BB #24, this week, Lene Balleby wasasked about the Regent Couple's plans for celebrating their golden anniversary. Would the celebration take place at Cayx?
Lene Balleby: "That's way too early to say anything about... time will tell.
Prince Henrik realize that you as royal can't retire entirely and be completely away from public life and he does still have a long row of official tasks. But the Prince has got/been given a much less prominent role and as such both he and the Queen wish that the celebration of the golden anniversary takes place in private".

- I should perhaps to the above posts that PH really isn't French rural gentry, he is more colonial gentry. Having lived in Vietnam most of his childhood and youth.
Sorry to see that QMII is having to face these types of questions from the press.
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  #490  
Old 06-16-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Duc- How would you compare the late Prince Claus to his peers: (Phillip, Henrik, Daniel)? Did he struggle as Beatrix's consort?
As far as I know Prince Claus had periods of depression for a long time. Wether he always had them (as in before his marriage) I don’t know. Wether his depression became worse because of his position in life is hard to say since we don’t know what he would be like had he not married princess Beatrix. Also... he’s a very different person. Much more modest. I do know as time went along he became one of the most beloved members of the DRF and I can remember people’s reaction when he died.
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  #491  
Old 06-16-2016, 12:57 PM
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Thanks to Muhler for all his post on this matter!

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Originally Posted by lucien View Post
I feel sorry for Queen Margrethe though,very much so,such an examplary Monarch who is put up for life with this selfindulgent "I am over the top important " creature.And for his kids.

I recall Frederik saying in a speech directed to his father,if beating is a show of love,then you must love us very much....Ever since this man disgusts me.
As I've said before: I really like Queen Margrethe, but she has her faults, as I wrote in this post:
The Future of the Danish Monarchy - Page 26 - The Royal Forums

As for her (Margrethe) to be put up for life with this selfindulgent "I am over the top important" creature is for sure difficult for her, but she is actually a bit like him when it comes to "I am over the top important" behavior, and Joachim have inherit it after them.

When it comes to the relationship between Margrethe and Henrik: It seems to me that they really enjoys each others company and Margrethe has said that it is important for their relationship that they spends time apart. It has also been claimed that she agrees with Henrik in the King thing.

And yes, Henrik was a bad father, but Margrethe was a equal bad mother (she has said so herself).

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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Sorry to see that QMII is having to face these types of questions from the press.
Yes it is, but are there one who can handle the press, then it's Margrethe.
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  #492  
Old 06-16-2016, 01:57 PM
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Could someone please tell me if Prince Henrik has always been the same during his married life? I actually never read much about them until this forum. Not much about any of the Royals made American news until recent years. Except for UK, of course.
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  #493  
Old 06-16-2016, 02:10 PM
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Well, he sure has had his quirks. And as you know he has also had his tantrums, the most well-known when he ran off to France because he felt usurped by his son and no longer was number two in the family.

I've heard family members of mine talking about what was heard about town back in the early days of the marriage and also in the early days of QMII & PH being the Regent Couple. - That PH had a few problems about being the one who should walk behind QMII. And that Queen Ingrid had stepped in and told him where his place was in the pecking order. - With Queen Ingrid being the matron of the family, PH's upbringing would prohibit him from protesting.
Of course I can't say if that's correct, but it's believed as the gospel truth by most in the generation older than me.

However, judging from his complaints it seems pretty clear that there is something in what was said. He seems to have genuine problems about not officially being, as well being seen and treated, as the patron of the family.
I've been told that this is far from uncommon from French men of his generation and his background. - Dad is the patron, period!

I'd say PH is stuck in the 1950's.

And he has never really understood and/or accepted what it means to be Prince Consort, that you are the main support of your wife. Not the patron.
And he has never really understood/accepted Danish culture, where titles means very little. And where a dad is supposed to bring up and support his sons as independent individuals and that you have succeeded the day you and your children look each other in the eyes as equals.
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  #494  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:00 PM
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Royal brides the world over have married into foreign royal families and have been expected to assimilate, and assume the country's culture (and drop their own on a dime). But not Henrik...different rules apply to him.
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  #495  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
And that Queen Ingrid had stepped in and told him where his place was in the pecking order. - With Queen Ingrid being the matron of the family, PH's upbringing would prohibit him from protesting.
Of course I can't say if that's correct, but it's believed as the gospel truth by most in the generation older than me.
I have a memory book about Queen Ingrid from mellemgaard, and in a quote under a picture of Ingrid and Henrik, it says that a newspaper (in the early 1980s) more than suggested in several articles that the relationship between them was chilly, but that she chose to deny this under a concert in 1983 where they stood close to each other, and he took his arm around her.

And I agree, Henrik is stuck in the 1950's.
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  #496  
Old 06-16-2016, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Royal brides the world over have married into foreign royal families and have been expected to assimilate, and assume the country's culture (and drop their own on a dime). But not Henrik...different rules apply to him.
Yes but adapting has always been normal for women. And women adapting always been normal for men. Hence Prince Philip’s comment about being the only man not being able to give his name to his children. I’m happy times are changing.
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  #497  
Old 06-16-2016, 04:44 PM
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Part of me finds it a bit offensive when he complains about being the victim of sexism. Is he kidding?? The sexism part is where king still ranks higher than queen.

A Queen Regnant is the same rank as King.

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Thanks Muhler! Funny enough, the one who would deserve it (Prince Philip), with regard to his service, sense of duty and effort, would be humble enough to decline!

Prince Philip doesn't even have the title of Prince Consort. I was told that the reason for this is because Elizabeth the Queen Mother told her daughter not to give him it. She didn't really like Philip and referred to him as "the Hun."

Prince Henrik stated that in Scotland the husbands of Queens were always given the title King but this is not so. Scotland has had six Queen Regnants, Queen Margaret died as a child and was never married. Queen Mary I did give Lord Darnley the title although he is never referred to as King. Queen Mary II was equal monarch with her husband William of Orange and the husbands of Queens Anne, Victoria and Elizabeth had/have the title Prince.
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  #498  
Old 06-16-2016, 05:34 PM
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A Queen Regnant is the same rank as King.

I know. But the title of queen should be equal to that of king. And the mere fact that it is not is why PH can't become king. The idea that a woman needs an extra title to prove she is queen in her own right and not because she married is silly and offensive. Dump queen consort and make every spouse prince(ess) consort. And drop the regnant behind queen.
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  #499  
Old 06-16-2016, 05:47 PM
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While I agree with you, Elenath, that queen traditionally is not equal to king, I don't think we in the holy name of gender equality should abolish the concept of queen (consort) just because one man can't accept his role.

The whole concept of royalty is very much about inequality. It's also very much about traditional roles, also in regards to gender-related roles.

So as I see it, men who marry future monarchs just have to accept they'll never become majesties and that their titles will "only" be prince. And if they can't accept that, well bou hou.

It's a title. You may call a spade "a manually operated digging tool" but it's still a spade.

Personally I want to see Mary as queen (I think she deserves the title). I don't want to see her demoted to princess-consort - just because of gender-equality. That I think also ruins some of the magic.

PH is a high as he can get here in DK. He holds second place in protocol issues. He's entered Danish history. He'll be buried at Roskilde among kings and queens.
QMII chose him as her husband, but the Danish state did not select him as a kind of Bernadotte.
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  #500  
Old 06-17-2016, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
In English perhaps.

But certainly in Scandinavia they are full queen and majesty, even if they are really "only" queen-consorts. I imagine it's because according to the Constitution and the Law of Succession, the king is the monarch.
In other words QMII's title really ought to be King Margrethe II of Denmark.
That is interesting. I never realised that there was a difference between countries. In the Netherlands too Beatrix formally was King AND Queen.

Quote:
And as pointed out by quite a few commentators here in DK, if we are to be absolutely in accordance with the Constitution and equal rights, PH's title really ought to be Queen Henrik of Denmark. - Somehow I don't think he would like that option... But he would be majesty rather than HRH.
Hahaha!!
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